560314 Thu Sep 25 19:12:16 -0700 2008 63 33 Food Media and News 0 4062473 Never heard this distinction before. Can someone shed some light? Thu Sep 25 19:12:16 -0700 2008 28638 phantomdoc 1 4062512 I just got done watching this show too. I didn't think there was a huge difference in Maine and Canadian Lobster. I didn't think there was a diffference at all. The reaction from Gordan Ramsey was hilarious. I think it was over dramatized for television. That other owner with the leisure suit look was a scum bag, I thought changing ownership roles was a smart move, Thu Sep 25 19:28:01 -0700 2008 4062473 85200 chinkymonkey 1 4062547 My understanding is that lobsters of the same species can taste somewhat different based upon where they are caught. This largely reflects regional water characteristics and the various food sources that the lobsters themselves feed on. Thu Sep 25 19:45:09 -0700 2008 4062473 146763 Plankwalker 1 4062579 Along with water temperature differences, there are also seasonal differences and weight restrictions. I find Prince Edward island lobster sweeter and more tender than NH and Maine lobster, but the PEI lobsters I've had have also always been smaller than legal catch in the states. Does anyone know follow up on the success/failure of the Black Pearl make over? Thu Sep 25 20:04:36 -0700 2008 4062473 228597 terrylab 1 4062581 I'm gonna jump in without having seeing the episode (although it sounds interesting enough). I don't think there's a difference either - especially with the broad stroke of "Maine vs Canadian". I mean, Maine BORDERS on Canada. If a specific lobster so chose, he could walk over the underwater "border" and could change from a Maine lobster to a Canadian or vice versa. Now, if you compare a Maine lobster to perhaps a Newfoundland lobster, or a cape cod lobster to a new brunswick puppy, perhaps there is room for argument - but I dunno. To my uneducated palate, lobsters from cape cod to maine to new brunswick to newfoundland to PEI pretty much taste the same. Thu Sep 25 20:05:15 -0700 2008 4062473 176627 porker 2 4063286 Due to the counter (anti)clockwise water circulation of the Gulf of Maine and the fact that when the lobster eggs (berries on the underside of the tail) "hatch" and are spewed into the water, they flow and grow to the south. A lobster "born" in Nova Scotia waters will mature in Maine. The real question is harvesting policies and conservation. There is no such thing as a 5 lb. Maine lobster. There is a maximum size limit in Maine, but not in Canada. The big boys are the breeders and increase reproduction rates. The Maine harvest rates increase incrementally, but I understand that the Nova Scotia harvest is down and the response is shortening the season. The taste question,I feel, is moot. Fri Sep 26 07:31:34 -0700 2008 4062581 93538 Passadumkeg 3 4915548 "There is no such thing as a 5 lb. Maine lobster" Can't agree with that. ME Lobsters get a good bit larger than 5 pounds. Now if they are legal to catch or not is a seperate issue. Tue Aug 04 04:49:30 -0700 2009 4063286 253154 Fritter 4 4915858 Yea, I got a free dinner in Las Vegas when I had the download of Maine's lobster laws and presented them to the owner of the restaurant who had a sign in front advertising 5 lb Maine Lobsters. I asked him if it was false advertising. The place was right on the strip. Tue Aug 04 07:08:02 -0700 2009 4915548 93538 Passadumkeg 5 4915875 LOL funny stuff! This is the first year I can recall seeing so many live Canadian Lobsters here. I picked up four 1.25 Maines for Lobster rolls this past weekend ($5.99#) that were all soft shells. Tue Aug 04 07:14:21 -0700 2009 4915858 253154 Fritter 6 4915919 Fairway on long island has big ones for $5/lb. this week. 4-6 lb. http://www.fairwaymarket.com/Fairway-Plainview-In-Store-Special-1249074000.pdf Tue Aug 04 07:27:35 -0700 2009 4915875 28638 phantomdoc 7 4915926 It must suck for the Lobstermen but I'm doing my fair share for the lobster economy this season! :-) Tue Aug 04 07:29:30 -0700 2009 4915919 253154 Fritter 8 4916936 I have a student that we get lobsters from. Just before school ended, he gave me a yellow Post-it withe the title "Lobster Hot Line" and his cell and house phone nos. He has not charged me once this summer (My birthday in June, wife's in July, son in Aug.) He is so disgusted w/ the price he just mutters that it isn't worth it. Boat price last week was $2,25 /lb US. We had m jumbos at a local restaurant Sun. for $5 /lb restaurant price. I have had enough lobsters in Maine, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, that I truly feel that any tase difference is in the cooking (under or over cooked) or hard shell vs soft shell. I can taste no national difference. On the other hand, where I live, used to be Quebec, so w/ the French (Our local lobsters come from Frenchman's Bay.) influence, Downeast Maine lobsters must taste better than Anglophone Canadian or southern Maine ones! (Joking of course) Tue Aug 04 12:51:59 -0700 2009 4915926 93538 Passadumkeg 9 5109548 Former Canadian prime minister Pierre Trudeau once said, regarding fishing rights on the Grand Banks "Fish swim". By that, he meant that fish that might spawn in Canadian waters will swim out to international waters and back many times. Who has the right to them, or the right to regulate their catch? It's a thorny issue, and hasn't been solved yet. And my response to Ramsay is "lobsters swim". There's nothing to stop a Nova Scotia lobster swimming a few miles south, and suddenly become a "Maine" lobster. Ramsay was talking out of his rear orifice. I've had lobster in Maine and Nova Scotia and never noticed a difference in taste (price, yes, taste, no). I'd love to arrange a blind taste test just to show how full of it Ramsay is. Fri Oct 16 19:34:46 -0700 2009 4916936 1104506 FrankD 10 5109863 Nationalism is a funny thing. Mainers look dwn their nose at lobbers further south and local lobstermen feel the Canadian lobsters are redder because of Canadian Gov't subsidies and accuse them of dumping and driving the price down. All tastes good to me! Sat Oct 17 04:35:03 -0700 2009 5109548 93538 Passadumkeg 11 5111481 Yep, my best friend lives in Portland, and when we visit, we either buy lobster from some place on the water in Portland, or he takes us up to Harraseeket (sp?) lunch near Freeport, and we chow down there. Maine or Canadian, I'm with you, it all tastes good! On the other hand, my wife is from Asia, and when we visit, I find the southern lobsters, while huge, have nowhere near the sweetness or texture of our North American bugs. The only crustaceans I want to eat out of warm waters are crawfish. Sat Oct 17 20:55:04 -0700 2009 5109863 1104506 FrankD 4 4916416 People use the term "Maine Lobster" as a descriptor for Homarus Americanus - but as noted above, the species has a pretty broad range. If you've been served a 5lb "Maine" lobster, it may be that the vendor is not representing where it was harvested, but simpy that it's not a spiny lobster from the Carribean. Tue Aug 04 10:06:40 -0700 2009 4915548 10814 sbp 1 4062805 Yup. Ramsay's wrong and there is no distinction other than marketing. I have blogged about it here: http://itcamefromthekitchen.blogspot.com/2008/09/why-gordon-ramsay-is-wrong-about-maine.html Thu Sep 25 23:22:17 -0700 2008 4062473 228625 Geoff394 2 4062820 I thought Ramsay's major point was they advertised Maine lobster and they were from Canada. It was false advertising. Not legal. Thu Sep 25 23:46:49 -0700 2008 4062805 10921 Janet 3 4063090 That was my impression while watching the episode last night. Calling a lobster Maine when it wasn't. At the beginning of the show, David (one of the owners) kept referring to the restaurants "Maine" inspired menu, decor, style...only to have Gordon challenge the source of their main ingredient. Anyone remember the recent CH post asking if what is advertised on the menu, should be what you receive on your plate....this show highlighted why. However, Gordon being the good old sport he is...purchased a lobster tank as part of the makeover and placed it front and center. Aside from the scripted nature of the show and that all the owners have to know going in what will happen during taping-some good points are made for the homeviewer as well as the owners. Three owners must have been the "nightmare" part of this segment. Fri Sep 26 06:16:45 -0700 2008 4062820 36312 HillJ 3 4064923 Right, remember when that annoying owner said he wouldn't put seasoning on a Maine lobster roll because it wouldn't be authentic? Go figure. Fri Sep 26 18:24:39 -0700 2008 4062820 92606 dorian 3 4066823 If that was Ramsay's point, he was wrong. Which is no surprise. Maine lobster is the most common common name for Homarus americanus. As another example, Dungeness crab doesn't have to come from Dungeness. But I'm sure he thinks it's good fun to mislead viewers. Sat Sep 27 19:48:37 -0700 2008 4062820 55316 mpalmer6c 2 4064314 Actually, I would disagree, they are differences in taste depending on where and when a lobster was harvested. Since they are scavengers, their feeding habits will chnage the taste of the lobster. As a canadian I only eat canadian lobster, but specimens from rocky regions will differ in taste from sandy regions. Which is best is a debate I will not even to answer. (Nor will I get into the whole male VS female lobster debate!) Fri Sep 26 13:49:27 -0700 2008 4062805 13079 ScoobySnacks20 3 4064442 I don't think there are any lobsters in Maine or Canada from sandy regions. The lobbers stick to the rocks for protection. I worked 2 summers as a sternman on a lobster boat. Traps are always set on rocky bottom here. Did you read my above about NS lobster new borns floating the currents down to Maine. thank you very much. There is an article in today's Bangor Daily News that the Maine Lobsterman's Assn. is getting certification for lobsters as a renewable resource? I didn't see the show and don't know what it's about. How about soft shell vs hard shell? Now that's a worth while discussion. See ya around neighbor, Mark Fri Sep 26 14:44:59 -0700 2008 4064314 93538 Passadumkeg 4 4087876 I can't vouch for the US, just saying that lobster from Iles-de-la-Madeleine live in and are trapped in sandy areas from the ocean dropping sediments on the coast, while Gaspesie lobster live in rocky areas. The point is, the eating habits of the lobster will influence the taste, just like with most other natural foods (grass vs milk vs grain fed; wine terroir; raw-milk cheese). Tue Oct 07 09:32:20 -0700 2008 4064442 13079 ScoobySnacks20 5 4915865 Read The Secret Life of Lobsters and you will see why lobsters avoid sandy bottom. Tue Aug 04 07:10:04 -0700 2009 4087876 93538 Passadumkeg 1 4062985 So are these guys still in business? If you google them, there's a website, dated recently, that mentions a restaurant going into the space where Black Pearl USED to be. Fri Sep 26 05:16:18 -0700 2008 4062473 109573 coney with everything 2 4063247 I'm confused (and obsessed). The web site has photos of the renovation that Gordon did but says the resto is on 26th Street. Wasn't it in Times Square? Fri Sep 26 07:15:44 -0700 2008 4062985 116638 southernitalian 3 4063327 They held the marketing event segment in Times Square. Fri Sep 26 07:44:57 -0700 2008 4063247 36312 HillJ 2 4063714 That references BP on Union Street; the one on KN was on W 26th and is still there. http://www.blackpearlonline.com/ Fri Sep 26 10:01:26 -0700 2008 4062985 12873 OCAnn 3 4063851 Gotta say, the food looked pretty good BEFORE the makeover.When he said those mussels were too spicy, I said, "Bring it here". Aside from the disfunctional management team, that was the least of the "nightmares" he's seen. Speaking of disfunction, how about him buying that Bozo a wedding ring for his gilfriend and having the wedding that night? And making the teet jokes with his future father-in-law. Nice! Fri Sep 26 10:50:05 -0700 2008 4063714 116638 southernitalian 4 4063859 Yeah...I couldn't decide whether the wedding thing was thoughtful or presumptuous. Fri Sep 26 10:52:27 -0700 2008 4063851 12873 OCAnn 5 4065127 I am a California Marriage Commissioner and can't figure out how that wedding was legal. I am sure all states require a marriage license. And to get one the couple must appear in person with photo ID or with power of attorney for the missing person. Anyone from New York have info on how to marry without a license? Fri Sep 26 20:32:04 -0700 2008 4063859 10921 Janet 6 4065394 Well you can't just get married as they did. I was wondering too, but I'm sure you have to get a license first. At least there's no blood test anymore! OK I had to look it up (it's been over 30 years since I got mine) you have to wait at least 24 hours after you get the license. Sat Sep 27 01:55:38 -0700 2008 4065127 11097 coll 7 4065602 You have to appear in person to sign for a marriage license in NY. Sat Sep 27 07:21:05 -0700 2008 4065394 28638 phantomdoc 8 4126736 I married Mrs. Doc on Oct 14th in Nassau County. Had to appear in person for license and wait 24 hours for ceremony. Fri Oct 24 12:19:17 -0700 2008 4065602 28638 phantomdoc 4 4137199 I hope they lived happily ever after, but the restaurant is alreay closed for good. http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/565333 Wed Oct 29 14:51:45 -0700 2008 4063851 14555 stuartlafonda 3 4063866 Ah, thanks, NYC is a complete mystery to me. That is, BTW, one ugly website. Fri Sep 26 10:52:59 -0700 2008 4063714 109573 coney with everything 4 4063874 Yeah on the website. I wish there was a mention on how GR's visit affected the restaurant (if at all). Also wish that there was a thread on the Manhattan board re NYers experience at Black Pearl before & after...unfortunately, most of the relevant (juicy) stuff is from last year. Fri Sep 26 10:56:09 -0700 2008 4063866 12873 OCAnn 4 4063880 The new menu item Ramsey demonstrated on the episode is on the Black Pearl website under menus. As for the wedding, I thought it was incredibly odd but Dee Synder of Twisted Sister raffled off a motorcycle for charity, unrelated to another KN show...and last season Whoopie Goldberg had some odd cameo appearance on Ramsey's Hell's Kitchen....throwing in all sorts of "stuff" cause he can... Fri Sep 26 10:57:32 -0700 2008 4063866 36312 HillJ 1 4064322 I really hope they weren't serious about the live lobster toy tank. I, and PETA, and lots of non-PETA folks would cry fowl. Fri Sep 26 13:53:00 -0700 2008 4062473 13957 slacker 2 4064425 Was the live lobster tank a prop for the show only or did the tank stay after the KN show? Having never had the pleasure of eating at Black Pearl, I don't know. Fri Sep 26 14:36:50 -0700 2008 4064322 36312 HillJ 3 4064535 Don't know, but even as a show prop, it was in bad taste. Fri Sep 26 15:28:21 -0700 2008 4064425 13957 slacker 4 4064574 slacker, if Kitchen Nightmare is about good taste, we're not watching the same program. Fri Sep 26 15:40:11 -0700 2008 4064535 36312 HillJ 5 4064583 Kitchen Nightmares is about tv drama [edit: and comedy], and Gordon getting his ego on. But the lobster tank crossed the line. Fri Sep 26 15:42:36 -0700 2008 4064574 13957 slacker 6 4064626 slacker, I was "trying" to infuse humor-my bad. KN takes on a restaurant in need of help. Beyond that yes tv drama/reality show in its latest incarnation. No argument there. Fri Sep 26 15:57:56 -0700 2008 4064583 36312 HillJ 3 4065607 I remember a comedian referring to the lobster tank in a restaurant as Shellfish death row. To combine it with a carnival game is pretty funny too. Sat Sep 27 07:23:45 -0700 2008 4064425 28638 phantomdoc 2 4064670 Slacker, following the near-unanimous criticism of PETA for recommending a couple days ago that Ben & Jerry's use just human milk, I hope they are beating a hasty retreat out of New England for a while: in reverse, as lobsters do. Fri Sep 26 16:12:34 -0700 2008 4064322 57170 Veggo 3 4064711 I'm not a PETA member, and I'm not saying I support everything that they are nor any extreme positions they take. I reference them as a reference to no cruelty to animals. I love eating lobster, hey it's all part of the food chain, but toying with them bothers me. Fri Sep 26 16:35:42 -0700 2008 4064670 13957 slacker 4 4065248 The lobster tank is just like the tank at the grocery store. You just pick out the one at the grocery store for sure death. The claw toy idea lets the Lobsters live. Have you ever played those claw toys? Nobody ever gets one of those prizes. Fri Sep 26 21:55:57 -0700 2008 4064711 85200 chinkymonkey 1 4066783 I am from Newfoundland and have lived in Ellesworth Maine. I ate lobster extensively in both locations. Lobster from NFLD are generally larger much hard shells (you need tools) vs Maine has soft shells that you can manage with your hands. For taste, lobsters all taste different in diferent regions and even in neighbouring harbours. It of course depends on their environment and what they eat. To generalize I'd say Nfld lobster are a lot sweeter tasting. From my experience, the colder the water the better the taste. Again it maybe more related to the food they eat. There is a reason why cod whales and everything else come to feed off the Southeast coast of NFLD. It is the latitude where the atlantic ocean current finally resurfaces from the depths below all the way from south america (oceanography). The water is therefore bubbling up rich in nutrients which in turn raises good tasting seafood. Again keep in mind that some fishing grounds will neighbour soof course they should taste more alike. I personally have not had any Maine lobster that was not softshell, so I cannot comment otherwise. Sat Sep 27 19:10:46 -0700 2008 4062473 229008 maxwise 2 4068357 A lot of soft shells are sold here to maximize profit from visiting tourists. We eat hard shell usually brought from a buddy. I think the colder water + sweeter taste is bunk. Lobsters are VERY temperature sensetive and live only within certain very narrow thermoclines. The taste, I feel, is very, very subjective. What did you do in Ellsworth? Sun Sep 28 16:49:17 -0700 2008 4066783 93538 Passadumkeg 3 4068405 Just down the road from the hospital there where I worked. I still stand by my opinion, but let me clarify, seaafood in general that are found in colder climates compared to seafood species found in warmer climates are comparitely tastier. Sorry if I touched a cord but, all I can say is I enjoy the taste of the hardshell vs the softshell far better. The thermocline must have some variance as I am not sure that Maine recieves much of any of the Labrador current which is quite cold and runs around Nfld vs the warm gulf stream that flows past Maine towards NFLD southeast shore. It is that very contrasting temp gradient that causes all that foggy and bad wheather of it's southeast coast. I am not in the fishery nor have any interest in we vs they. I always choose fish when I am on a costal region as I now live in Ontario and miss fresh fish. So far after eating fish from Aruba, Mexico, Hawaii, and Bermuda, nothing compares to home seafood. Personal preference. The further North I go the better it tastes. I must say in Italy it was fantastic but I have no idea where it came from. Funny enough, Royal Caribbean was sailing out of San Juan to sail south but chose to sell Nova Scotia lobster. I was surprised as I figured that there must be a more close location to get lobster to serve on the ship. Sun Sep 28 17:15:50 -0700 2008 4068357 229008 maxwise 4 4068638 The Gulf of Maine IS the Labrador Current! That's why it is so cold and full of nutrients and was such a huge fecund ecosystem. The Gulf Steam goes off shore at Cape Cod and does not warm the Gulf of Maine. Agreed cold water makes yummy hard shells. We eat Homarus Americanis (sorry Canucks). i used to live in Norway and used to eat a subspecie,Homarus Norwegianius (?). It too lived in cold water. I remember no difference in flavor. Go Maple Leafs! Sun Sep 28 19:11:56 -0700 2008 4068405 93538 Passadumkeg 1 4067260 Candian lobsters are a little sweeter, and harder shells because the water is colder, but lobsters from Canada or Maine are still wonderful... Sun Sep 28 06:34:47 -0700 2008 4062473 10302 irwin 1 4068698 My problem with the whole thing is he just had to look at them to know they weren't Maine lobsters. Ummm, where they wearing Roots outfits with a maple leaf on the claw mitts? How can you tell just by looking at them? Sun Sep 28 19:49:51 -0700 2008 4062473 118582 maisonbistro 2 4068942 All seafood has to have a tag of origin for the EPA, at least in NY, but since it's only a TV show who knows? Sun Sep 28 23:01:48 -0700 2008 4068698 11097 coll 2 4070475 Why would you watch the hockey game in the front yard? Mon Sep 29 13:51:31 -0700 2008 4069037 176627 porker 3 4070706 Sorry, it was in Tin Hortens! What the puck! Mon Sep 29 15:35:16 -0700 2008 4070475 93538 Passadumkeg 1 4069307 I guess INS is too busy policing the Rio Grande to check the passports of lobsters sneaking across the trench...maybe we need ANOTHER wall.... Mon Sep 29 06:59:06 -0700 2008 4062473 57170 Veggo 2 4915496 regardless of the possible diffrences of subtle taste between those two, i found outer surface of canadian lobster has slightly diffrent tone of color. i have never eaten the maine lobsters but my subjective visual comparison from the photo and videos of Main lobster seems to validate that those two almost same but that doesnt mean its entierly same. if the possible outer diffrence of those two lobsters that i have mentioned are not to be considered critically, what is all the fuss about red and blue king crab distintion in north west coast. those two crabs also live in the ocean which is not isolated. even though north east coast around canada-and-usa border is open ocean each other, i think that doesnt mean they are the entirely same. i do not trust my local fish seller's advice that canadian lobsters are superior to the lobsters from usa, but i belive they are not totally same each other, at least not in terms of taste. Tue Aug 04 04:05:59 -0700 2009 4069307 200474 hae young 3 4915562 You can catch two lobsters in the same pot with different color variations (yellow, Blue etc). That doesn't mean they are different species. There is no correlation between the Canadian Lobster Vs US and the Red Vs Blue Vs Golden King Crab. Blue Kings have much larger claws. Goldens are much smaller in physical size. Maine and Canadian Lobsters are the same. Blue Kings are so close to Reds they are often sold as Reds and I've seen Blues at Costco many times in the past being sold as Reds. The areas where some of the crab species you are talking about are separated by a fairly vast amount of ocean in some cases Vs Maine and Canada which share a direct border. The only Canadian lobster you might split a hair over is the PEI's which can have smaller claws. Tue Aug 04 04:59:21 -0700 2009 4915496 253154 Fritter 4 4915709 in my region red king crab is little pricier than blue king crab. if my local fish monger sell blue king crab as red's, i probably feel decived. Tue Aug 04 06:13:01 -0700 2009 4915562 200474 hae young 5 4915729 Red King Crabs are no "better" than Blues and Reds are more common so IMO it's silly to pay more for Reds. In most cases your not going to gain any valid experience viewing video or photos on Google etc. In either event at the end of your bisque threads you seem to have given up stating lobsters were overly expensive. If you think Lobsters are out of reach in the lowest price season I can even recall you can forget about live King Crabs no matter what color they are. Tue Aug 04 06:19:15 -0700 2009 4915709 253154 Fritter 1 4915904 I really like Gordon Ramsay but he went overboard here. There's really no big difference in lobsters from Maine to Canada -- but that's just *my* opinion (but an educated opinion, having eaten more than my share of lobsters). A coda about The Black Pearl - in its original incarnation those people had no business being in the restaurant business in New York City - it takes passion and hard work and the three owners seemed to be capable of neither. Tue Aug 04 07:22:05 -0700 2009 4062473 270888 shaogo