560035 Wed Sep 24 18:31:36 -0700 2008 33 31 Home Cooking 0 4059535 Hello fellow chowhounders. I'm hoping that you all can help me. I'm writing a paper and am in search of old chop suey recipes. My preference is to find chop suey recipes from old cookbooks and/or magazine articles dating to late 19th century or early 20th century. I'd even be happy with recipes from the 1930s to the 1950s (Old Joy of Cooking or Fannie Farmer). Unfortunately, my cookbook collection is not that extensive, nor does it include older cookbooks earlier than the 1980s. I would be most appreciative if any of you with older cookbooks could rummage around for recipes, and possibly post them along with the reference where you copied the recipe out of. Thank you in advance daeira Wed Sep 24 18:31:36 -0700 2008 199062 daeira 1 4059812 http://www.flavorandfortune.com/dataaccess/article.php?ID=167 Wed Sep 24 20:48:39 -0700 2008 4059535 203621 todao 1 4059884 I remember seeing a recipe for Cowboy Chop Suey in a small spiral bound recipe book... I can track it down probably...are you interested in these off-shoot "regional" recipes? Wed Sep 24 21:36:14 -0700 2008 4059535 10877 Sarah 2 4059893 Sarah, I would absolutely love to see the recipe, providing that it's not too much trouble to track down. I don't want you tearing down your house just to find this thing. But if it happens to be on a bookshelf within easy access and won't inconvenience you too much, i'd be most grateful. Thank you in advance. Todao - thank you for the link. However my problem rests with the fact that I do not have access to many of the cookbooks mentioned. My local and university libraries do not carry these and I probably won't be visiting the Chinese cookbook library at Stonybrook anytime soon as I live in another country. But thank you for the link anyways Wed Sep 24 21:52:47 -0700 2008 4059884 199062 daeira 1 4059967 Hi Daeira: I've collected a lot of cookbooks over the years and came across these chop suey recipes, four in Good Houskeeping 1949, Better Homes & Garden - Ground Meat - 1973 and Farm Journal's Country Cookbook - 1959. I've uploaded these recipes into PDF Files. I hope it works. I've never done it before. I hope this would help in your research. Good Luck!! Wed Sep 24 22:48:02 -0700 2008 4059535 176415 rinkatink888 2 4060847 Hi rinkatink. Thank you so much for doing that. I really appreciate it. Unfortunately I can't seem to find the uploaded pdf. Do I need to click a link somewhere? Thu Sep 25 08:58:46 -0700 2008 4059967 199062 daeira 3 4060867 I was afraid that might had happen. Unfortunately I'm at work and can't reload until this evening. I'll try again. One of the files may have pushed the 2mb limit. If that's the case, I'll send you back two separate replies and keep the files under 2mb. If that won't work, I'll figure another way. Thu Sep 25 09:03:37 -0700 2008 4060847 176415 rinkatink888 4 4061920 No rush rinkatink. I don't want to inconvenience you so whenever you have time. If it's easier, I'd be happy to give you my email address so that uploading won't be too much of a hassle. Let me know which way you prefer, and again thank you Thu Sep 25 15:03:00 -0700 2008 4060867 199062 daeira 5 4062752 Hey Daeira: Let's try this again with one upload and see if it works. Thu Sep 25 22:19:27 -0700 2008 4061920 176415 rinkatink888 6 4065159 rinkatink, I seem to not be able to see the upload again. I'm not sure whether I'm doing something wrong or perhaps I'm not looking in the right place? Fri Sep 26 20:59:25 -0700 2008 4062752 199062 daeira 1 4061971 Here's one I found for you: The Chinese Recipe for Chop Suey 1 lb fresh lean meat, veal, or pork, cut into small pieces 1 can LaChoy bean sprouts 2 C. sliced onion 4 C. fine cut celery 2 C. soup stock or juice from can of bean sprouts 4 Tbsp LaChoy soy sauce 1 Tbsp LaChoy brown sauce 2 Tbsp cooking oil or lard 2 Tbsp flour Fry the meat in a deep kettle in the lard or oil, until well done. Add onions and sauté for 2 minutes. Add the celery, soy sauce, stock, and brown sauce. Cover and cook over a brisk fire until the vegetables are done (about 10 minutes). Add LaChoy sprouts. Stir and heat for 2 minutes. Thicken at edges with a thin paste of flour and water. Stir thoroughly and remove from fire at once. Serve hot with steamed rice. http://www.ghosttraveller.com/THIRTIES%20RECIPES.htm Thu Sep 25 15:22:43 -0700 2008 4059535 222865 FoodChic 2 4067493 I know this thread isn't about whether or not chop suey is good or authentic or whatnot. But I just have to say that, as a daughter of a wonderful Chinese cook, this recipe is horrifying and amusing all at the same time. It's almost as if someone set out to do everything completely opposite of how a Chinese stir fry should be put together. Just the thought of canned bean sprouts is rather revolting (I love the reference to use the "juice" from the can). And meat in stir fry should never be cooked until well done (especially given that the recipe calls for 15 more minutes of cooking!). Vegetables covered and cooked for 10 minutes? And what is "brown sauce"?! Anyway, just a bit of amused kvetchng from me. I do understand that these recipes are decades old. I just hope that no one still makes them! daeira, good luck with your paper! I hope that somewhere in there you will discuss how these recipes were a sad "interpretation" of Chinese cooking. :) Sun Sep 28 09:13:10 -0700 2008 4061971 12124 TorontoJo 3 4067515 Exactly, it isn't authentic, as it comes from a time when there was no other way to obtain these ingredients. If you follow the link I provided it is a recipe from the 1930's. It was a time when can goods were a novelty..the new thing, the thing to do, and helped make cooking easier. In most regions of America in the 1920's & 1930's obtaining Asian ingredients just wasn't an option, and canned products were the only option. There wasn't any concern with authenticity. I can tell you growing up in the 70's in Montana, a box Chun King Egg Foo Young was always available in my grandparents kitchen cupboard. Sun Sep 28 09:25:34 -0700 2008 4067493 222865 FoodChic 3 4067895 I have The Settlement Cookbook.. the one published in 1965. And it has you cook the dish for at least 30 minutes! I felt the same as you, reading it, but things like this are part of the reason I collect old cookbooks. So interesting to see how much tastes have changed. And also ingredient availability, as FoodChic points out. Sun Sep 28 12:39:34 -0700 2008 4067493 166051 Chile Pepper 3 4068719 All the recipes posted are great. You really see the diversity, not only in product availability but the progression of Chinese food through the decades. You're literally reading social worlds through recipes. I definitely will be addressing the authenticity/inauthenticity debate in on my later chapters. Sun Sep 28 20:03:50 -0700 2008 4067493 199062 daeira 2 4070201 That's pretty much how my mom made "Chinese" back in 1960/s. She usually used hamburger for the meat and added canned water chestnuts, canned bamboo shoots and sometimes green pepper and canned pineapple. Then some La Choy or Chung King crispy fried noodles would be sprinkled on top. I remember Chung King and La Choy used to sell kits and all you had to do was add the meat. Do they still sell those? As bland as it sounds it was good in a comfort food sort of way. Mon Sep 29 12:03:29 -0700 2008 4061971 13997 2chez mike 3 4070400 Well, sort of. La choy purchased Chung King, and they discontinued many of the prepackaged items that Chung King used to have, as well as my forementioned Egg Foo Young. ..which you just added egg to, the veggies were in a can, and the seasoning packet, as well as the sauce packet that we just added water and heat. If memory serves there is still an chow mein mix. Mon Sep 29 13:22:08 -0700 2008 4070201 222865 FoodChic 2 4071320 I suspect the LaChoy fake soy sauce is an essential component to that good old time taste. Well, that and celery. Also, I never had it with anything but pork. My family would thicken it with cornstarch, though, and not flour. Ours was a simmered dish with some added water to braise the meat. We didn't have the can of bean sprouts, but sometimes we'd have chow mein crispy noodles on top of it. It was served on Uncle Ben's converted white rice, of course. Chop suey is a fond food memory for me! I loved it as a child. Mon Sep 29 21:07:08 -0700 2008 4061971 166172 saltwater 1 4061977 Here's an interesting one from a soda jerk website from the 20's & 30's: Title: Chop Suey Sundae Keywords: Oldies, Ice Cream, Sundaes Once the basic sundaes are mastered, the soda jerk should try his or her hand at more inventive fare, such as this relic sugguested by an old recipe from The National Soda Fountain Guide. 1/4 cup Sugar 1/4 cup Water 1/4 cup Raisins 1/4 cup Dates 2 scoops Vanilla Ice Cream 1/4 cup Flaked Coconut 1/4 cup Chow Mein Noodles Boil the water and sugar together for 5 minutes and then add the raisins and dates. Pour over the ice cream and top with the noodles. http://www.masterstech-home.com/The_Kitchen/Recipes/Reminiscent_Recipes/SodaFountainRecipes.html Thu Sep 25 15:25:36 -0700 2008 4059535 222865 FoodChic 2 4065164 FoodChic, thanks so much for the recipes. I'm really intrigued by the chop suey sundae. I've never heard of that before. Just picturing chow mein noodles with ice cream sounds a bit odd though Fri Sep 26 21:01:43 -0700 2008 4061977 199062 daeira 3 4066456 You're welcome, daeira. My curiostiy got the best of me, so i wanted to find a picture. I didn't have much luck, but I did run across this - which provides some useful research avenues. http://www.fortunecookiechronicles.com/blog/2008/05/22/what-is-a-chop-suey-sundae/ Sat Sep 27 15:27:04 -0700 2008 4065164 222865 FoodChic 2 4075828 As i'm searching through the old newspaper archives, I encountered a chop suey sundae recipe as well from 1911. It was chop suey ice cream pudding: "Here's something to send a thrill of delight through every diner: - Our chef carefully chops walnuts, pineapples, cherries, pistachios and macaroons - makes them into a rich nut and fruit salad - and then adds this salad to a special French Ice Cream. If you want a really enticing dessert, have us send Chop Suey Pudding for Sunday. Wed Oct 01 20:02:52 -0700 2008 4061977 199062 daeira 1 4065557 I'll offer a colorful detail that might be interesting for your paper. In Tiverton Rhode Isand, there's a drive-in called Evelyn's that has served a chop suey sandwich for years. They even do a lobster version. It has been covered by many of the well known diner and road food writers and tv shows. I ate it as a kid, before I discovered their lobster rolls and clear RI clam chowder. http://www.evelynsdrivein.com/press.htm http://www.evelynsdrivein.com/ Sat Sep 27 06:33:40 -0700 2008 4059535 21331 BostonZest 2 4068727 BostonZest, thanks for the chop suey sandwich link. I first heard of this only earlier this year under a slightly different name - the chow mein sandwich. I was trying to find local restaurants that still served this in my city. If I ever make it down to the east coast in the US, I'm going to have to give this a taste, if only to say I've done it. I've seen the pictures of this, and it's certainly photo worthy. Sun Sep 28 20:06:17 -0700 2008 4065557 199062 daeira 1 4065802 And, here's the art for your project. One of my favorite restaurant paintings - Edward Hoppers' Chop Suey. http://www.nga.gov/exhibitions/2007/hopper/acloserlook.shtm Sat Sep 27 09:23:04 -0700 2008 4059535 21331 BostonZest 1 4065859 you can download old american cookkbooks (19th and early 20th century) from this site: http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/html/project.html Sat Sep 27 09:47:03 -0700 2008 4059535 27586 shivani 2 4068728 Thank you shivani. Your link is great. Through the collection I managed to find an old chop suey recipe from 1914 that will be perfect for my work. Sun Sep 28 20:07:11 -0700 2008 4065859 199062 daeira 1 4066323 Here's a recipe I found in an old copy of the Settlement Cookbook: (reworded) 2.5 lbs. lean pork 2 tbs. oil or fat 1 can (1 lb.) bean sprouts 3 tbs. cornstarch 2 tsps. Chinese bead molasses 1 tbs. salt 1 tbs. soy sauce 3 cups onions, diced 3 tbs. butter 3 cups celery, diced 1 cup Chinese water chestnuts Dice meat into small pieces, cook slowly in fat until just about tender. Drain liquid from sprouts and combine with cornstarch, molasses, salt and sauce. Mix in meat, cook for 15 minutes more. Saute onions and celery in separate batches in butter. Add to meat mixture. Add beansprouts; cook until heated through. Drain water chestnuts, slice and add to chop suey. Sat Sep 27 14:06:57 -0700 2008 4059535 11146 EllenMM 2 4066699 Let me know if you find "Chinese Bead Molasses." A friend and I have had a search going for a loooooong time. I sent her a bottle of thick soy sauce and she seemed to think that gave the dish the taste she was trying to duplicate. Sat Sep 27 18:15:51 -0700 2008 4066323 21331 BostonZest 1 4070505 Here's another one from a church cookbook from Rutland Vermont, sometime in the 1930's. Chinese Chop Suey 1 cup rice 1 small can sprouts 2 cups onions - cut up 1 large can noodles 1 green pepper - medium 2 cups celery - cut up 1 lb. fresh pork, cubed 3 tbs. fat Cook meat in fat until very well done. Add fresh vegetables and cook for 45 min in the juice drained from the can of sprouts. Add enough water to cover veggies. Cook 20 min, then add 3 tbs. soy saouce. Mix flour and water and add to thicken. Add sprouts and cook 1/2 hour more. Heat noodles and serve chop suey around noodles. (recipe from Mrs. Stewart Ross) Mon Sep 29 14:06:35 -0700 2008 4059535 11146 EllenMM 2 4070759 This one takes the cake! Over an hour and half of cooking time for "Chinese food," not even including the meat browning time. Mon Sep 29 15:56:25 -0700 2008 4070505 166051 Chile Pepper 2 4070828 OMG... cooking canned bean sprouts for half an hour! I can't imagine there was anything left of them at the end! Mon Sep 29 16:26:24 -0700 2008 4070505 12124 TorontoJo 1 4071339 Hi Daeira: Sorry I haven't replied back sooner. Busy weekend but I really wanted to send you copies of the original pages of chop suey recipes I found in my 1949 and 1973 cookbooks. Twice I wasn't successful in uploading (maybe this site won't accept a PDF file), if you still like, give me your e-mail address and I will send). Mon Sep 29 21:25:22 -0700 2008 4059535 176415 rinkatink888 2 4075822 Hi rinkatink, My apologies for responding so late. Time has somehow slipped past me. Yes please, i would absolutely still love to see your recipes. I was trying to figure out a way to message you so that I could send my email address but seem to not find the feature. Does chowhound allow private messages? Wed Oct 01 20:00:18 -0700 2008 4071339 199062 daeira