Cheap eats/Dives/Landmarks/etc. (part 2 )

[chet steadman]

Hi,

I had a lot of great and very helpful responses to my older thread (http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/549909), but now that I *think* I have some direction, I figured it would be best to start a new topic. Long story short, I am going on a trip in a couple of weeks, and want to make a list of places that I could check out in each neighborhood. That way, I can choose a nearby place (hence, by neighborhood) based on what I feel like at the moment. I don't know what sights I will be seeing yet, but it will be pretty impromptu, so I feel that this is the closest I can come to planning an actual agenda.

Do you have any suggestions on the below list? Additions, deletions, or just suggestions on what to get at specific places? Your help is deeply appreciated.

Thanks

------------------------------

Embarcadero
- Ferry Plaza Farmers Market (at Market St) -- Sat, Tues until 2pm

Mission
- Churros @ La Parilla (24th
)- Donuts @ Dynamo (24th, b/w york & hampshire)
- El Tonayense trucks
- Taqueria Cancun (Mission, b/w 18th & 19th)
- Poc Chuc (16th, b/w shotwell st & van ness ave) -- Closed Wed
- Carnitas Taco @ Taqueria Guadalajara (3146 24th or 4798 Mission)
- Breakfast @ Pastores
- El Delfin (24th b/w lucky & treat) -- cheap sit down
- Morning Bun @ Tartine
- Yamo Burmese (3406 18th, at mission)

Berkeley
- Deep Dish @ Zackary's
- Peruvian Chicken @ Fonzie's
- Chez Panisse
- Cheeseboard

Golden Gate Park
- Arizmendi (1331 9th Ave)

SoMa
- Sentinel
- Tu Lan (8 6th st, at Stevenson)
- Curry Fried Rice, Imperial Rolls

Nob Hill
- Bob's Donuts (1621 Polk)

Civic Center/Tenderloin
- Gyro King (25 grove, at larkin)
- Sai Jai Thai (771 O'Farrell, at larkin)
- Roast Pork Bahn Mi @ Saigon Sandwich Shop (560 Larkin, at Eddy st)
- Clam Po Boy @ Brenda's French Soul Food (652 Polk, at Eddy St)
- Larkin Express (425 Larkin)
- Ala Turca (869 Geary, at Larkin)
- Pho @ Turtle Tower (631 Larkin)

Richmond
- Pieroshki @ Moscow & Tbilisi (5540 Geary, b/w 19th & 20th)
- Pho Garden (2109 Clement, at 22nd)
- Burma Superstar

North Beach
- All-in-one sandwich @ Giordano Bros (303 Columbus, at Broadway)
- Foccacia @ Liguria Bakery
- Square Slice @ Golden Boy Pizza (542 Green, b/w Bannam & Jasper)

Eva's Hawaiian Cafe
Breakfast @ Pork Store Cafe
Apple Fritters or Buttermilk Bar @ Happy Donut

[psb]

First, it's great that you did some research and as asking for some specific advice
as opposed to the lame "gonna be in SF in oct for a couple of days ... tell me what's
great!"

I think to some extent locals can get a sense of the type of places you are looking
for from your list, but it never hurts to be explicit, or say where you are coming from.

Most obviously: Arizmendi is a spinoff of Cheejboard in Berkeley. To me Cheejboard
is one of the crown jewels of Berkeley, so if you go there, dont bother with Azmdi.
And if you do go to CB, worth dropping into the Cheejstore next door in addition to
getting a pie/slices [I like the cheejrolls, but not all of the baked items ... the bread
is better at Acme. If you are interested in shopping for cheej, there are other threads
discussing that]. so skip Zach's and go to Pizzalio if you want pizza in East Bar and are
up for a minor $ splurge, or go to Gregoire ***for lunch*** [near Cheeseboard, you can
check their monthly menu on their WEEB page]. Note Gregoire is expensive for dinner,
and I dont think a good option unless you live 5min away].

So if you are near GGPark, some places consistent with you list would be YUMMY
YUMMY Vietnamese, Shan Dong Dumpling Facility ... or San Tung whatever it is
called. There is a decent Shawerma place around there too ... you can walk up and
down Irving St between say 4th and 11th and there are a ton of places. I like Park
Chow too, but it's more "comfort food" than uniq cheap ethnic resto.

I dont like Zachary's pizza. If you want tht style of Pizza [wtihout getting nit picky],
add Little Star ... in the Upper Mission or on Divisidaro. There are lots of other
Berkeley/Oakland options but it depends on some details like whether you need
to be near a BART station or not, and what you are looking for ... type of food?
price range? Just restos or stores as well?

In the Outer Richmond, Shanghai Dumpling King also seems consistent with
your list. If you like Korean Food/BBQ, that is also a good option in the 'Mond.

It looks like you are from NYC ... I am not sure why so many so-so pizza places on your
list, unless comparing is an explicit agenda or a cost saving option ... this doesnt apply
to cheeseboard which is uniq, or perhaps the "new style of fancy pizza" [pizzalio in
oakland but that is some what pricey], pizetta 211in the Outer Mond, Delfina Pizza,
Galina, Piccino in Pot hill. Golden Boy: not really that exciting.

I think Burma Star: overrated ... might go if somebody really wanted to and no wait.
Would I wait an hour? No way. Go Korean or Chinese or Troya or ...

Tu Lan: really it's not that exciting ... havent been there in a while but I imagine it's
still ok but primary virtue is price-quantity more than price-quality. If you wan to t
go just to check it off the list ... ok, no problem.

Do you like coffee? Add the BLUE BOTTLE COFFEE LABORATORY near the mint,
5th-6h and Mission/Market.

Rather than GYRO KING and TURKA, how about Super Afghan Kabob House or
Darbar [indian] or Lahore Karahi [although you probably can get better indian in
NY or NJ].

I like the pizza foccacia at Ligura but keep in mind it may sell out by 12-1ish.

I like the SUPER TUESDAY BURGER at Rosamunde in the lower Haight: $5.50
good deal, and you can eat it at one of the better beer bars in town, if you like
beer. You must go betwee 11:30ish and 1:15ish on Tuesday only.

If you are down on 24th in the Mission, tacos for $1.50 at Tacqueria Vallarta ...
also the $2 elote is a nicem unhealthy snack. Do they have the bacon wrapped
hot dogs in NYC? Sold around the Mission and at night at 8th and folsom.
[the tacos at Poc Chuc are higher quality and more expemsive]

Zeittgeist in the Upper Mission is somewhat uniq SF place ... "beer garden"
and one of the "cross roads of SF". Fancier beer option is The Monk's Kettle,
City Beer, Healthy Spirits.

I used to go to Tartine a lot but havent in a while ... for no prticular reason.
But there is decent stuff besides the moring buns ... lemon poppyseed cake,
i dont like the gourgieres but many others do, the almond croissant is kind of
preposterous and you have to see it to believe it, bread pudding is a good deal
when flavors which appeal to you, some nice sandwiches [the bread is very,
very good]. Prices make it easy to try a few more bakery items. I also like varous
things at BAY BREAD BAKERY in Pac Heights [and some satellite branches] ...
best cannells.

Ok my compile job has finished, so time to get back to other things.

[moto]

greetings, as psb noted, zachary's pizza really seems an anomaly on your list--it's heavy and formulaic. If you're going to Berserkley I think you'd get more out of Jayakarta since you seem to like spicy Asian food--it'd be a good compare/contrast to the Thai and Burmese.

[chet steadman]

"I dont like Zachary's pizza."

"as psb noted, zachary's pizza really seems an anomaly on your list--it's heavy and formulaic."

- Thanks for the heads up. Coming from across the country, I have little to base my opinions on. I had read several times that Zachary's is one of the best pizzerias in the country. But I'll take your word on this. I'm sure there are plenty of places in Berkeley that draw less criticism.

"I like Park Chow too, but it's more "comfort food" than uniq cheap ethnic resto."

- I am all about comfort food of all kind. With all of the ethnic fare on my list, perhaps this is a good choice.

"It looks like you are from NYC ... I am not sure why so many so-so pizza places on your
list, unless comparing is an explicit agenda or a cost saving option"

- Eh, not really. Pizza is my favorite food, so I don't mind eating it outside of NY and comparing. But I have no desire to eat "so-so" pizza. I'd only go to a place that, like you said, would be unique or top-notch. I'll knock the mediocre places off my list.

"Rather than GYRO KING and TURKA, how about Super Afghan Kabob House or
Darbar [indian] or Lahore Karahi [although you probably can get better indian in
NY or NJ]."

- I'm open to suggestions. Do you mind my asking why you prefer Super Afghan to the former? Also, yeah, I doubt that I'll feel like Indian out there. I don't dislike it, but for some reason, I only eat Indian when the opportunity really presents itself.

"Do you like coffee? Add the BLUE BOTTLE COFFEE LABORATORY near the mint,
5th-6h and Mission/Market."

- I love coffee. I've had some good stuff overseas (and from a few select nyc places), but I'm still excited to try the coffee out there. Is there a preferred style out there?

"Do they have the bacon wrapped hot dogs in NYC?"

- Crif Dogs / PDT will deep fry them too. Highly suggested if you are ever in town. http://nymag.com/listings/bar/pdt/

"Zeittgeist in the Upper Mission is somewhat uniq SF place ... "beer garden"
and one of the "cross roads of SF"."

- I'm there.

"almond croissant is kind of preposterous and you have to see it to believe it"

- preposterous good or preposterous bad?

"I think you'd get more out of Jayakarta since you seem to like spicy Asian food--it'd be a good compare/contrast to the Thai and Burmese"

- Noted, thanks. Only going to UCB for a day, but it's definitely on the list.

[psb]

Oh hello.

Well here is my updated advice:
in the east bay go to cheejboard pizza [near northside of ucb campus]
for their unique pizza:
http://cheeseboardcollective.coop/Pizza%20Collective/z.htm

Go to Pizzalio, a couple of miles south of UCB, for a medium-fancy dinner [$40ish
]of which the centerpiece can be their "fancy" pizza. Pizzalio can be a pain in the
ass to get into [dinner only for pizza]. If going at 5pm is not an option, then I suppose
you can try the CHEZ PANISSE CAFE (fancy) pizza ... across the street from
Cheejboard. Nizza la Bella is ok too, but probably not worth buring the time
if you can get to Pizzalio. I would also try the Gregoire potato items [expensive
but good ... i could justify them while on travel] and a lunch sandwich.
http://www.gregoirerestaurant.com/

Zachary's pizza is an exercise in cynicism not PIZZA ARTISTRY ... if i melt a bunch
of cheese on a torilla and drop in some decent sausage or pepperoni with some
oregano ... hey guess what, a lot of people will like a couple of bites.

Oh, let me put in yet another plug for the CHOW SHORT RIB DISH.

Zeitgeist is mostly about an interesting venue ... decent burger, bloody mary, beer,
420 activity, people watching. Do not get a tamale lady tamale ... one of the most
overrated food phenomena in SF ... there is some kind of weird cognitive dissonance
invovled ... or maybe just people being drunk and cold.

If you are interested in weighinng in on a 20+ year debate, get a slice of ARINELL
PIZZA either next to UCB or in the Mission near Zeitgeist. I personally think when
they are good, they are pretty good if you like the NYC-style cardboardish crust,
greasy pepperoni, fold in half to eat style pizza ... but they have significant variation
in quality so you get a semi-dud slice about 40% of the time. you you guys have
roasted potato pizza slices at the ray's-type places in NYC ... i cant remeber.
yu might thy the U-SAY-POTATO slice at ESCAPE FROM NY PIZZA [i think the
haight branch is the best one]. you can stop in next door at ALEMBIC if you like
francy liquor or "artisianal" cocktails.

If you like COFFEE, you should make the BLUE BOTTLE LAB a "must see".
And maybe RITUAL ROASTERS ... another sort of SF phenomena like ZEITGEIST ...
80% of the patrons own iPhones and 80% own apple laptops and maybe 40%
go to Burning Man ... ok that's sort of a joke, but you'll see what I mean. has the
GIBRALTER phenomena ... a drink invented by BLUE BOTTLE [?] made it out to
NYC? that would probably be the more unique coffee drink ... but there is also
the new style of ultra fancy "plain coffee" [either via the CLOVER MACHINE
]or the even more elite JAPANESE HALOGEN BREWING TECHNOLOGY.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/din...

ALMOND CROISSANT -> it is simply not clear to me how many servings they
feel one of those almond croissants are ... 4servings? 5? I used to be able to eat
a pould of bacon at a time, and a giant apple fritter wasnt a big problem, but
I cannot imagine eating one of those at once.

HELMAND or DA AFGHAN KEBAB probably a good variation from the somewhat
similar Turka/Gyro King. e.g. Bolani, mantu, chapli kebab, the pumpkin dish etc.

If you want to put more high end pizza on your list, add delfina [near tartine],
A16 [a little bit away from the center of town]. I personally dont think delfina is
that great in terms of price/performance although it is better than when they
first opened, and again i could justify it when on travel ... it;s just not one of
my regulars ... while LITTLE STAR has sort of entered my regular rotation.

I recently noticed MONKS KETTLE has pretty much the whole range of the
fancy RUSSIAN RIVER "hell/devil" beers, in addition to PLINEY THE ELDER ...
worth checking out if you like beer ... also in the upper mission near Z'GEIST,
DELFINA, TARTINE etc. Some of these are pretty pricey and may be difficult
to deal with if on a solo trip. [sold in large bottles].

[NoeMan]

Chet:

Zachary's and Little Star are Chicago style pizzas. I see you're from New York and, in my experience, most New Yorkers prefer their own thinner style pizza. Also, I am from Chicago, and while I am very grateful for these two for a reasonably close to authentic tastes of home, they are not really like the real deal. Save the Chicago pizza stops for your Chicago trip which is inevitable for many people at some stage in this life. Lots of other great chow there too.

Otherwise your list is great.

[teeny222]

here is one place you must try...its a pop and son bakery and they have the best and cheapest spare ribs over rice, buns and chicken over rice as well. They run the place like home and they are great people. it may seem like a hole in the wall but it is the best place for cheap eats and great service with a smile...
they are located on the outskirt of chinatown:
Mee Heong Bakery
1343 Powell Street
San Francisco, CA 94133
[phone]
A MUST TRY BAKERY!!!

[chet steadman]

welp, i'm off in a few days. hopefully i'll get to a couple of places per day. i'll let you guys know how it goes

[Kenois]

You will not regret this: Q Restaurant, 225 Clement St, btwn 3rd & 4th Aves in the Richmond (near GG Park). 415-752-2298.

http://www.qrestaurant.com/

[rworange]

Ok I'm using the limited time I have on this site before my eyes burn out for the day to STRONGLY ... STRONGLY make this suggestion. I actually picked up this tip from a one line throwaway suggestion in your last post. It intrigued me and I don't think you will find anything that matches your title that is more perfect.

SF: Tee Off – The divine dive with chicken fried steak, burgers …and stuffed quail
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/560344

You won't see any more 'real' San Franciscans than at this place ... not the yelp-driven crowd that frequent the 'accepted' dives. This is a treasure, a true neighborhood bar.

When I stopped by the last time with a friend, in addition to being astounded to the food being offered, he really liked the neighborhood vibe.

If you are from NY, with the exception of Crixa Bakery in Berkeley, you will find the Eastern European baked goods and food here a tremendous disappointment. I'd match Crixa against the East Coast's best.

In this at best average group, Moscow & Tbilisi Bakery Store, only rates in the middle. Israel Kosher has much better piroshkis and better baked goods, though limited. Make sure if you go there it is something they make in the store. Next door is New World Market which is about as good as it gets European Deli-wise in SF.

For piroshki however, I think Gastronom might be the best with Europa Express on Irving almost a tie.

Sorry if you have questions I probably won't answer them since this board is just too difficult for me to read more than in short, selected bursts these days.

[rworange]

I don't see what yelp has to do with this?

I have made as many positive and negative comments about Yelp as I have about Chowhound. They both have some excellent features and some serious flaws.

I picked up the Tee Off tip on Chowhound and then looked over on Yelp to find out more about it. Those majority of those three years of reviews include comments about the place before the restaurant changed owners last year, so most of them are not valid. Though they have a excellent feature (if you are into determining a restaurant by stars) where they have a graph of performance over time. So you can see where suddenly the ratings rose drastically ... their version of uphill and downhill alerts. Click on ratings details on that site to see what I'm talking about.

As Chuckles pointed out, Tee Off is a paid advertiser which means the positive reviews are floated to the top and some other stuff goes on in that case. So I had to take that into consideration.

Then I went through another gazillion reviews that had nothing to do with food to find the few that did any sort of credible mention of food. Those few and the fact that Guy Fieri just did a show there, PLUS looking at the menu on menupages got me interested in the joint.

[chet steadman]

Hey, just spent the day walking around and I am beat, so a very quick wrap-up of what I've had so far.

Caffe Trieste - I popped in twice, getting a latte and later an americano. The coffee itself is great, but I wasn't crazy about how my latte was prepared. The americano was nice.

Blue Bottle - Girbraltar. I went in this morning for a quick pick-me-up, and the coffee was top-notch, but I really regret not getting breakfast there. That fried toast/egg thing looked amazing.

Taqueria El Zorro - Al pastor taco. This wasn't on my list, but I happened to be hungry when I passed by. The taco was really good. My only complaint was the price. Is $3+ standard for a taco here? I get pretty decent ones for $2 in nyc.

Taqueria Cancun - Al pastor super burrito. It was cheap, delicious, and extremely filling. By far the best burrito I've ever had. And both types of salsa that came with my complementary chips were really good.

Dynamo Donut - Bacon/Maple/Apple donut. Awesome--it tasted like breakfast. It was pretty out of the way, even by Mission standards, but it was a nice stroll from Cancun. Looks like a pretty cool neighborhood.

Giordano Bros - Pastrami all-in-one sandwich. Not exactly what I expected, but in a good way. I was thinking it would come out like a grease truck sandwich (google rutgers grease trucks if you don't know what i mean) but it actually wasn't too overwhelming. The fries were really good too.

I will probably end up eating at Golden Boy in a little. I don't even feel like pizza but right now I need something quick, simple, and close.

[chet steadman]

By the bye, I walked by Tu Lan when I was wandering around earlier, and the area doesn't seem that sketchy. A couple of homeless people, but I didn't feel unsafe or anything. It's also a really small area, near some pretty heavily-trafficked streets. Does it get significantly worse at dinner time/when it gets dark?

[ML8000]

My opinion is 6th St is not sketchy at dinner time, mostly just a bit unpleasant. The sketchy area is small as you mention. One block over at 5th and it's not scary, on Market, again not scary. I'm 98% sure if you simply walk down Market and then down 6th, it's no big deal.

The thing is, most locals can't gage what constitutes sketchy to visitors since it varies greatly. Thus to be safe, people just say it's sketchy. The worse part of SF is happyland compared to other cities scariness.

p.s. grease truck sandwiches...I googled it. I think CH Wolfe said it best...the Mission burrito is SF's answer to a slice...or a sub, grease truck sandwich, cheese steak, etc.

I can only guess, but if you want a great sandwich, try the El Tonayense Taco Truck on 14th and Harrison. Get the al pastor torta (sandwich). It's the best sandwich I had in SF in a long, long time. Think of it as a al pastor, Italian beef but w/ pork instead.

[psb]

it is not hard to find 1.50 for "plain" tacos" in SF.
for the dressed up "super taco" versions [with guac etc], prices vary.

there are a few places with 1.25 tacos ... certainly outside SF. i dont
remember off the top of my head if there are any place in SF at $1.25.

taqueria vallarta near dynamo donus is "the standard"

there are other higher quality tacos at +$1.50, such as POC CHUC and
Casa Latina I believe.

i personally believe La Taqueria is over priced, but many like it.

trieste is not in the same league at blue bottle, IMHO ... but sounds like
you are operating out of north beach. i'd have tried to go to OSTERIA DEL FORNO
over GOLD BOY. or maybe SODINI ... although if just geeting a slice, G'BOY is ok.

i dont think the tandoriloin, 6th and mkt etc are all that sketchy. some blocks may
smell like urine, but if you are used to urban environments, nothing should freak
you out etc.

>It's also a really small area, near some pretty heavily-trafficked streets.
>
exactly

[chet steadman]

I ended up getting Golden Boy (too tired to venture any farther). It was decent, but not mind-blowing. Pretty much what I expected based on most of your feedback.

[Chuckles the Clone]

The Trieste is pretty strictly an espresso and cappuccino joint. Further down Columbus I once watched a richly-dressed tourist lady get absolutely browbeaten out of Mario's for asking for a "double skinny latte" or some such. "I'm sorry," the counterlady sneered, "we don't ~do~ 'latte'." The Trieste is a little more friendly to outsiders, though your choice of drinks gave you away.

When an area in San Francisco is described as "sketchy" what is meant is that it hasn't yet been plowed under and resown with loft condo things. The current financial situation should ensure the continued existence of the Tu Lan neighborhood for another few years. Enjoy it while you can.

[chet steadman]

haha. i didn't want to ask on this board, but i was wondering whether my drink of choice (americano) would be frowned upon in sf.

[weem]

I like a plain black coffee. Any time I order one and they are out of coffee and the new pot is still brewing, I'm offered an americano instead. This has happened at every place from the seedy corner cafe to Starbucks. (And I usually take it rather than wait.)

[Louise]

Coffee, pizza, and Chez Panisse will all spark very opinionated debates on the SFBA board. As you have discovered.

If you're generally interested in food, even if you aren't in a position to do any cooking, Berkeley Bowl is worth a stop. Definitely a landmark. The produce section is mind blowing. If you're thinking of checking out Crixa, it's across the street.