55928 Mon Sep 15 12:42:03 -0700 2003 8 2 Los Angeles Area 0 290274 Even though we made the decision to go to LA only a few weeks ago, I have been planning this trip for a long time. Years of reading the Stern's extol the virtues of Philippe, Cassel's, etc. made me hunger for LA. My yearnings gained traction each time I heard the Beastie Boys extol the virtues of Fat Burger (still extant?) and a law school buddy's constant praise of Tommy's. Finally, I purchased and nearly memorized J. Gold's Counter Intelligence. I had my list, checked twice by the extremely generous input of LA chow-board and re-checked by Chicago hounds, Erik M and Gwiv (the Ultimo). Then, all the planning went by the wayside. Somewhere over the mountains, Ms. VI turned to me and said, "I want Oaxacan...mole." She stunned me. Had not I planned this whole trip already, to the minute. Had not I already compromised agreeing to sushi and Getty? What could I possibly give up. How could I adjust on such short notice. I had neither my well thumbed copy of Counter-Intelligence, nor Internet access. I was armed just with my Erik M annotated map and my Palm Pilot. I smiled outwardly at the suggestion but struggled inside. (And when my wife reads this, she'll laugh because it was not really such a veiled pain.) We did not made no adjustments to the itinerary. We just pointed the rental card towards Sepulvada and gave in to fate. And what would appear shortly, but the Oaxacan, Guelaguetza. Truth be told, I saw it, not her, and I could have pretended otherwise. I did not, and the moment we drifted into the parking lot by Trader Joe's, I knew we'd have a blast regardless of what I pre-planned. With giddy, we went through page after page of the Oaxacan specialties, rare in Chicago. We pledged to ourselves to eat mini-meals in LA, the better to try lots. And perhaps, compared to say, an Oaxacan wedding, it was a mini-meal: mememlo with chorizo chubs, the enormous clayuda, enough really for 4, a spicy tamal with peppers and cheese and the odd, un-sealed empanada with clove intense yellow mole. My only quibble, the masa products could have been fresher. Still, a great start to a great eating trip. Then, my first of about five donut stops. Who is responsible for the LA style of donut sold at nearly every corner? I must send my gratitude! We got to the corner of Pico and Sepulvda, and the words of J. Gold echoed in my mind, "my only articulated passion was to eat at least once on every restaurant on Pico," so we turned. Soon to pass the Apple Pan. I know, as Chairman Kaga would say, "as memory serves me, the chowhounds rather dismissed Apple Pan..." but we were right there. We were right there but not especially hungry. We used purchasing half the stock at the AIDS beneficiary re-sale shop down the street to work up an appetite. Then, we sat down to the archetypical Apple Pan meal of steakburger, fries, apple pie, and scalding hot coffee with heavy cream, a light snack. Both my wife and I found the house sauce, not to our liking, adding an overly sweet element to the burger. But while it ruined it for her, I got over it, loving the fresh meat and the fresh roll. Neither of us especially like the apple pie, also too sweet. No one told me of the Israeli area around Pico and Robertson. We wandered in awe of the dueling markets, Elat and Alef. Elat was much more crowded and featured a range of products straight from Israel, but Alef, niched to the population of Persian Jews, was more interesting. Peckish, we had some zatar dusted pita warmed in the stone oven at Bibi's Warmstone Oven. Mini-meals we told ourselves as we reluctantly skipped the gorgeous sambusacks (a/k/a bureks). Still in the mind for middle eastern food, we went for dinner at Zankou. I found the whole chicken good but not great and only good depending on where in chicken I grabbed from. On the other hand, their version of baba ganoush was greater than good, the perfect marriage of smoke and eggplant. The chicken shwarma sandwich was nearly as special, a grand canyon of flavor layers. The garlic spread lived up to its advance billing. Even the pita bread was special. So stuffed, we still needed to go to Sahag's Basturma as payoff the help that Erik M gave us. Of course Isaac remembered all of the basturma he sent to Chicago for Erik (already sampled greatly at Erik's house), and of course, we should have some coffee and cookies with him. That coffee, by the way, hit me like a valium, vastly improving my disposition as soon as it hit my blood stream. We did, however, skip more food in favor of buying tchokes for friends back in Chicago. We were in bed by 9 after looping around Bunker Hill for a while to find the ideal parking spot. Nothing to do with chow, but we are extremely proud of the fact that, in total, we paid only $6 dollars the whole weekend for parking near the Omni. VI Mon Sep 15 12:42:03 -0700 2003 0 Vital Information 1 290299 Reading between the lines, I'm getting the impressions you skipped the falafel place for the Oaxacan, probably a good deal. There is actually a branch (larger) of Guelaguetza closer to the hotel on Olympic near downtown. The $6 on parking is very impressive! I'm wondering if you made it to Stan's or Primo's for donuts. Lots of typical donut places are run by Korean (I think) immigrants. I think they even get their ingredients from the same place. Krispy Kreme has turned up the heat donutwise in LA, so maybe you got the benefit of people competing with it. Mon Sep 15 15:16:27 -0700 2003 290274 0 mc michael 2 290323 You went to the palms gueleguetza. It's good. It's no longer owned by the same folks who own the one on 8th st. I think the 8th st is better, but the portions are larger at the palms one. Mon Sep 15 17:57:09 -0700 2003 290299 0 Jerome 3 290344 The one thing about the Palms Gueleguetza, they advertised hand made masa products (clayudas, tortilla's, etc.), but it was clear, whomever's hands were making the stuff, it was not the hands in the kitchen. So, the bases were good not great. Speaking of hand made tortillas, I thought the ones at Loteria, while fine, were not as special as hand made tortillas can be. What I most loved there was the potato taco filling. The mix of fat enhanced potato, green salsa and avocado was well worth the extra dollar we ended spending on Farmer's Market parking. Rob Mon Sep 15 19:31:43 -0700 2003 290323 0 Vital Information 4 290348 Touristy, but fine for tortillas, Tia Juana on the west side hires a lady to sit by the comal in public and bang out hand made hand formed tortillas. Which are fantastic. Mon Sep 15 19:54:24 -0700 2003 290344 0 Jerome 4 290357 Rob, I think it's fantastic that you only had to spend $6 parking downtown over 3 days. OTOH, parking is a trap for the unwary (and even the wary) in this city. You can save $50 bucks parking at meters for 4-5 days, and on the next day you get a $50 ticket for some minor infraction that's contained in the fine print of some sign you missed or, worse, get towed for the infraction. As much as it sticks in the craw, most folks would be well advised to pay for the valet or the lot space, etc. Frequently, if you make a purchase, some of the cost of the lot or the valet is waived or as we say validated. Just my opinion based on having gotten nearly every sort of parking ticket you can get in this town over a lot of years, and having been towed twice. About the only thing worse than being towed is having your car stolen--another reason to hand the keys to the valet. Mon Sep 15 20:35:13 -0700 2003 290344 0 mc michael 1 290412 Well, I have to say that I am relieved... since I have read some things on chowhound suggesting that Chicago has a better variety of Mexican than us, including Oaxacan. And, as hard as I find this to believe, I don't have the experience with Chicago to deny it. But the Guelaguetza on Palms you visited is imho the worst of the 3... which isn't bad since I like all of them... but I think the big one on Olympic is the best. Anyway, I want to say (along with others) that your posts have really been great. More importantly, your analysis of LA was spot-on and without any BS stereotypes... thank you!! Tue Sep 16 03:50:48 -0700 2003 290274 0 C.S. 1 290414 I appreciate the enthusiastic tone in your reports and know you are trying to be positive in your comments about the L.A. restaurant scene. With that being said, I personally feel you were merciful in your comments about Zankou Chicken. Although I have not tried the Shwarma or the other dish you mentioned, I don't understand all the raves in Chowhound about Zankou Chicken. I tried it three or four times several years ago but decided it wasn't great. After reading about it over and over on Chowhound, I decided to try it again. I don't claim to be an expert, but if the garlic sauce is the big draw it seems to me there are many middle eastern places around with garlic sauce every bit as good. I don't know, maybe it's the dirty fast food scene that I find so unappealing about Zankou Chicken. About 15 years ago, when she opened her second, and larger-more upscale, restaurant on Santa Monica Blvd., in West L.A., I remember reading an interview with Evan Kleinman (Angeli's). She was talking about how she missed the rainy days when she would be in her small kichen at Angeli's and her roast chicken would be in the oven. To me, that is the kind of thing I look forward to when I eat out. Not fast food on styrofoam plates and plastic forks. At Zankou, you don't get the feeling there is a chef anywhere in sight. It's like a fraternity cookout- but you can't even get a beer in the place. Tue Sep 16 04:26:22 -0700 2003 290274 0 Paul R. 2 290448 Agreed. The chicken at California Chicken Cafe (IMHO only) is superior to the (not bad) Zankou chicken, and you get real plates & silverware, and incandescent light rather than cafeteria fluorescent. (And, if you do the 8 piece dark meat deal, it's much cheaper to boot.) Tue Sep 16 12:57:04 -0700 2003 290414 0 Lon