557427 Sun Sep 14 21:59:21 -0700 2008 21 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 4035228 The Refuge 963 Laurel Street, San Carlos, CA 94070 650 598-9813 http://www.refugesc.com/ If I can parrot Makansutra, this is Die-Die-Must-Try. They make their own pastrami and oh-lord-yes! is it good. Yes, the great past-time of New Yorkers in San Francisco has been brought to an abrupt halt. There is now good pastrami to be had locally. Owner Matt Levin makes the pastrami and it is truly worthy. I won't bother to try to describe it. You know what good pastrami is. Go try it and see if I'm not right (I am right, don't even try it on). On a level with Katz's,Langer's, and whatever they serve in Paradise. But wait, there's more! Chopped liver is to die for. Okay, it isn't Barney Greengrass, but then, what is? It is the best by far you'll get sans flight out of SFO. There is a good wine list and, this is where the absolutely win my allegiance, a brilliant collection of Belgian ales on tap. Chimay? Sure, but oh so much more. Pastrami rillettes - not a typo! Get the grand plate and try a variety not to be beat. Burger meat is ground on site and it makes a difference. And the fries? The fries are perfect. Crispy on the outside, pillowy on the inside. I know I cannot finish the fries with any other item on the menu, but I order them anyway. Because I'm a frites snob and I can't pass them up. I have not tried the cheese steaks or desserts.If you try them let me know what you think. Now that I've had a taste I expect to try everything on the menu. I think it'll take a few months. And I'll have to add a mile a day to my running routine to keep up. But I know it will be worth the extra effort. Sun Sep 14 21:59:21 -0700 2008 134574 karma_bites 1 4035249 Sorry, you lost me with the wine list and the Belgian Beers. If you had said Cel-Ray Soda, I might have taken the bait. Sun Sep 14 22:21:19 -0700 2008 4035228 131118 Xiao Yang 2 4035331 I never loved Cel-Ray. I didn't even ask. Didn't despise it, but never loved it. They do make a cherry soda that is quite good. A cream soda though? Or an egg cream? Yeah, I wish that was on the menu. But it's not a deli. It's not that kind of place at all. Think more of a first date place. The kind of place you can suggest to someone you're interested in. They'll be impressed by what a cool place it is, how good the food is, how really attractive and comfortable the bar is and you'll be happy with the food. Even if there's no second date you'll both tell your friends about the restaurant. I guess what I'm saying is it's a place where the owners and staff have undertaken, with a considerable degree of time and effort, to make an excellent product which was previously lacking in our region, coupled with other excellent products from all over the Bay Area and the world, and the trouble to present it in an extremely clean and comfortable environment and a charming atmosphere. Chowhounds are the most adventurous diners. Maybe you won't like it. You may find Belgian ales cloying. I'm not always in the mood for a Chimay (but I like one more days than not). Such a venture deserves a chance, even if it doesn't try to mimic our beloved delis. Try it, and then tell me what you think. And I don't believe there is a corking fee if you bring your own Dr. Brown's. Sun Sep 14 23:47:43 -0700 2008 4035249 134574 karma_bites 2 4035378 I've seen Cel-Ray at BevMo in San Rafael. Mon Sep 15 01:51:08 -0700 2008 4035249 13619 Sharuf 1 4036685 The Refuge is a remarkable invention, where draft Belgian beers come together with big sturdy fare by a chef/owner who is a really, really talented charcutier. I've yet to see a dish there that wasn't a solidly conceived and executed winner. The pastrami is thicker and juicier than the archetypal NY style, and when served on thick fresh rye with coleslaw and russian dressing, there is perhaps no better sandwich. I've been a couple dozen times and karma_bites sums it up perfectly. The Refuge is certainly a destination for any SF epicure. Mon Sep 15 12:26:17 -0700 2008 4035228 43540 orezscu 1 4040343 I absolutely agree. This place is wonderful- I had the best salame to date in any Bay Area joint, and the Pantelleria capers the mixed salumi plate came with were fantastic! Tue Sep 16 17:00:02 -0700 2008 4035228 171280 VanessaItalyinSF 1 4040876 It's not a faux/wannabee NY deli, so I don't understand why Cel-Ray soda would be required. Link: Tue Sep 16 21:43:58 -0700 2008 4035228 10159 Ruth Lafler 2 4040954 The OP compared it to Katz's deli, which doesn't need a wine list or fancy beers. It would be unthinkable to serve a pastrami sandwich from Katz with anything but a Dr. Brown's, IMHO. Tue Sep 16 22:42:09 -0700 2008 4040876 131118 Xiao Yang 3 4041042 This place is so much better for serving Belgian draft beers than challenging and idiosyncratic surefire-loser savory sodas. It's not trying to be a New Yorky place—it's its whole own new thing, and it's wonderful. Wed Sep 17 00:58:33 -0700 2008 4040954 43540 orezscu 3 4041787 The OP said the *pastrami* was on the level of Katz's -- nowhere did the OP say the restaurant was trying to be like Katz's. Surely you don't think that only a NY-style deli should be allowed to sell pastrami? And if you do, why? I personally think that restaurants are better when they are trying to be themselves and not slavishly copying other restaurants. Wed Sep 17 09:26:40 -0700 2008 4040954 10159 Ruth Lafler 4 4042064 Dr. Brown's goes with the pastrami sandwich, not with the restaurant. And the OP was baiting New Yorkers, not Californians. Katz's Pastrami Sandwich, Dr. Brown's Cel-Ray Schwartz's Smoked Meat Sandwich, Cott's Black Cherry Soda Red's Double Cheesburger, long-neck Bud That's the Yin and the Yang of it. Wed Sep 17 11:11:16 -0700 2008 4041787 131118 Xiao Yang 5 4042632 I always preferred Dr. Brown's Cream to the Cel-Ray Wed Sep 17 14:07:36 -0700 2008 4042064 211392 rockawayguy 5 4043703 Refuge's Pastrami, Belgian Beer That's the Yin and the Yang of it there. And it's fantastic. Wed Sep 17 22:36:45 -0700 2008 4042064 130031 Shane Greenwood 6 4491801 Qyuck Update. The pastrami on rye here is superlative. My wife had the pulled chicken hoagie with fries - excellent as well. Had Leffe Blonde with my sandwich. Match made in ... heaven. Tue Mar 10 13:05:31 -0700 2009 4043703 49974 osho 1 4043732 I've stated my opinion of the pastrami at The Refuge before, but not being shy, and having another opportunity here, let me do so again: The Refuge serves the best pastrami on rye sandwich I have ever had, and that is a whole big mound of pastrami sandwiches. Wed Sep 17 23:12:40 -0700 2008 4035228 11277 Paul H 1 4045854 Is the pastrami like Katz's, or is it like Langer's? The two styles are very different. Katz's - ultra-tender, ultra-fatty, melts in your mouth, harmonious notes of spice, garlic, and smoke. Langer's - a little firmer, waaaaay saltier. Tastes more like corned beef than pastrami to me, but I've seen Langer's fans deride Katz's pastrami as "bland and steamed", so maybe it's a matter of which style you grew up on (mine should be obvious). Does The Refuge hand-slice its pastrami? Thu Sep 18 18:36:10 -0700 2008 4035228 44059 daveena 2 4046009 The Refuge hand-slices their pastrami: it is thick (1/8" slices?) and while not "firm" I wouldn't say it melts in your mouth. It's worth a trip to check it out. Thu Sep 18 19:43:55 -0700 2008 4045854 11277 Paul H 2 4046063 Much more like Katz's, based on your description. Made from the "eye of the navel," I think they say. Apparently there are only like 3lbs of this particular cut per cow, and it's largely spoken for by Big Pastrami (I like that idea) so it's terribly expensive to obtain. There's nothing bland about the final product -- has anyone in this thread used "sublime" yet? Thu Sep 18 20:11:30 -0700 2008 4045854 43540 orezscu 3 4492547 OK, I finally made it. It *is* a great pastrami - perfect texture, similar to Katz's, cut into slices so thick they almost qualify as chunks. The cure is a bit sweeter than Katz's - I should have chosen a less sweet beer, because it was definitely amplifying the sweetness of the pastrami, but overall, a great sandwich. Tue Mar 10 16:42:51 -0700 2009 4046063 44059 daveena 1 4157901 I went to the Refuge last night, about 6pm on a Friday night. As said several times here, this is not a deli so get that out of your head. I'd call it a bistro, a bustling bistro on Friday night with singles, couples, groups, families with kids, all ages, really everyone is there. Most people seem to be drinking draft beer (many types of beer and ale on tap). Their wine is all European, none familiar to me, and the glass I had of Mas Neuf red was quite good and very French. I suspect the rest of their wine is well selected. The pastrami? It was as good as everyone here says; it is pastrami on another level. I've never had pastrami like it or even close to it, but I don't have much New York experience. It's less salty than most other pastrami I've had. The place is certainly appreciated by a lot of people and for good reason. Sat Nov 08 07:39:51 -0800 2008 4035228 10724 Mick Ruthven 1 4183327 They may not have Cel Ray Soda but they have an excellent Wysnewski's Black Cherry Soda, home made I believe. Tue Nov 18 11:03:30 -0800 2008 4035228 96274 dhoffman1421 1 4496504 OK, “osho” bumped this thread, so I thought I’d post some photos from my lunch at The Refuge in September. I’d been to a bar mitzvah on the Peninsula that morning, my first one since my schoolmates and I were that age ourselves. It brought back memories of Mrs. Schoenbrun’s famous chopped liver, a staple of celebrations at Salinas’ Temple Beth El, and I’ve never had better anywhere. But no chopped liver on the spread at this temple, and in this mood, I found my way to The Refuge and had my brother join me for a first visit. On one of the last days of summer, we took a seat outside. We ordered a pastrami san with chopped liver, a cheese steak with mushrooms, a diet pepsi and Blanche de Bruxelles, which all came to $46, including tax and tip. Not cheap, but totally worth it.” http://www.flickr.com/photos/melaniewong/2873272263 Here’s my Pastrami with chopped liver, slaw, Russian dressing on rye bread served with greens in sherry vinaigrette, $16. As you can see, the housemade pastrami (navel cut) is hand carved in thick, unctuous slices. This is close to the Katz’s texture that William and I both love. As daveena points out, the cure does have a sweet side to it and it is less salty than Langers. The chopped liver was the skinny sister in this combination and didn’t add much. Next time, I’ll just go for the unadulterated version. Another couple lunching near us ordered a pastrami sandwich with a side of fries, and that is more than enough for two people. And, btw, the side salad was great, loved the vinaigrette. http://www.flickr.com/photos/melaniewong/2873272251 William had the Cheeesteak with mushrooms, red pepper, provolone, and rib eye on Amoroso bread that comes with excellent fries, $12. http://www.flickr.com/photos/melaniewong/2873272255 As penance, I had the vegetarian entrée at the bar mitzvah dinner that night catered at the Aviation Museum. Wed Mar 11 20:20:01 -0700 2009 4035228 10039 Melanie Wong