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Julia McWilliam' employment w/ the OSS has been well documented, but it always was presented as if she was a lower-level, clerical worker of some sort -- not difficult to believe at that time. It was in her OSS years that she met Paul Child -- and the rest, as they say, is history. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Child.
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" Oh Nooooo Not Julia
Does this make any sense"No. That 1st line doesn't make ANY sense. OP-JiyoHappy, should tell us what's meant by it. I think everyone reading that would think OP feels serving in the OSS during WWII, especially Julia, was a disreputable thing. The opposite of what it actually was.
As mentioned already, it's been a matter of public knowledge for a long time that Julia served in the OSS. She was not a spy (as most people think of what a spy is) and this latest information doesn't say she was. This latest news is not that newsworthy (as in "new"). Though details now released- her working on a shark deterrent and squeezing water from fish are new and interesting.
Anyway. it's a chance to plug the excellent read (for many reasons)- "My Life In France". It is not an overstatement by any means to say Julia was one of the very remarkable persons of the 20th century.
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could be, but not likely. i think it's mostly an example of an over-hyped story. Julia certainly did work for the OSS, but she always insisted that she was clerical. My guess is that the declassified document lists all "employees" of the OSS and the reporter infers that anyone who worked for the OSS was a spy. Personally, I'd have a hard time picturing Julia, all 6-2 of her and not exactly quiet and shy, working undercover in China (which is where she was stationed).
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re: FED
Chowpatty
Aug 14, 2008 01:29 PM
The reporter hasn't inferred anything, the story itself says that the document will list who was a spy. And of course she insisted she was clerical, that is exactly what the women were always told to say. An friend of mine just heavily researched it and incorporated that exact point into a book. Did you think they would go around saying, "Oh of course I was a spy" after being sworn to secrecy?
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re: FED
Withnail42
Aug 14, 2008 04:17 PM
Not sure what you point is. You said before she was a spy because she said she wasn't. Now her work was to intense to be considered a spy?
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re: FED
Caroline1
Aug 14, 2008 05:14 PM
Intelligence gathering in another country is spying, no matter how you slice it. Doesn't matter whether you work in an embassy office that is legally U.S. territory or not. Or as a high profile CIA officer once said to me, "Caroline, there is no country on earth where espionage is legal..." She was a spy.
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re: Caroline1
look, if for whatever reason it is important for you to believe that Julia was a spy, by all means go ahead. i don't think there's anyone who knew her who believes that she was anything more than a clerk for an intelligence gathering organization. it was her first real job out of college, for goodness sakes; she'd only worked at a department store before that. and just for the record, China in those days was our ally.
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re: FED
Withnail42
Aug 14, 2008 07:07 PM
If it's so important for you to think she wasn't then please go a head but come up with some better arguments. For the record I'm not bothered if she was or wasn't a spy.
China may have been an ally but you still had to keep an eye out (secretly) as to what was going on. Besides Israel was caught spying against the US a while back.
And what is a spy supposed to say when you meet them at a cocktail party. "Hi, I'm a spy"? Don't think that's what they do. Valerie Plaine's neighbors had no idea what she did. she even had fake business cards made up. It's all about misinformation.
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re: Withnail42
Ruth Lafler
Aug 18, 2008 01:36 PM
Yup. I just saw the repeat of the 60 Minutes interview with Valerie Plame, and they pointed out that her detractors made the exact same charge: that she was a glorified secretary. Well, duh. Her real job was covert. They also pointed out that everyone knew -- or could easily find out -- that she worked at the CIA. Again, duh. Lots of people work at the CIA. Some of them are janitors and cafeteria workers and secretaries (glorified or not); some of them aren't. What anyone who works there really does inside is anyone's guess. If she wasn't a spy, then why did Bush say he'd fire whoever leaked her name? Oh wait, he didn't. Nevermind.
Anyway, if Julia was (a) analyzing information not available to the general public, and (b) doing it specifically to provide intelligence and support to the U.S. government, and (c) doing it in a foreign country, then she was a spy. She was, in fact, a lot more a spy than someone who just "picks locks" or "services dead drops" without really understanding the information they're collecting.
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re: FED
MplsM ary
Aug 15, 2008 10:30 AM
Here's a link to a Julia biography http://books.google.com/books?id=x3wh...
I think "spy" means different things to different people.
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re: FED
In the current CIA, there are covert operatives and analysts. There is clerical support staff for each of these broad divisions. This was probably true of the OSS.
If you apply the word "spy" to anyone who tries to make meaning out of secret human- or technologically-gathered information about another country, then an analyst earns the label. If you only include folks who service dead drops, recruit double agents, pick locks, and the like, then analysts don't qualify.
It seems entirely plausible that Julia served as an analyst in China. She certainly seemed smart enough based on what we saw of her through her writing/cooking/teaching.
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Another reason to love Julia (I admit I don't understand why the thread is titled the way it is).
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re: markabauman
alkapal
Aug 14, 2008 11:11 AM
i actually know (knew) personally two outstanding wonderfully intelligent and talented women who were in oss, esp. in italy. one, now deceased, was absolutely brilliant (and boy, did i learn stories...) and a current friend. they are superb exemplars of american patriots!
the esp. intriguing info was about james angleton, the "mole hunter" and a connection with aldrich ames via mexico.....
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re: ChefJune
Withnail42
Aug 15, 2008 01:09 PM
Actually it would have been her 96th. Assuming I counted correctly.
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Withnail42
Aug 14, 2008 04:57 AM
It was always know that she did intelligence work. It always seemed that there was more to the story than was being told but that it often the case with that line of work.
To paraphrase a pervious poster what a cool lady!
And still very much missed.
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re: MMRuth
tatamagouche
Aug 14, 2008 04:53 AM
Yeah, I thought this was fairly common knowledge. Although some other people on that list may be eye-openers.
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