54736 Tue Jun 24 03:43:34 -0700 2003 69 2 Los Angeles Area 0 282750 I went to LA SUPER RICA in Santa Barbara today for the second time. This is one of those "institutions" that is supposed to be so great - it is not. I had four things; beef was among the worst, driest shoe leather I have ever tasted, the guacamole was average, the marinated pork was average, and the chicken was just OK. Believe it or not, I have had much tastier at Poquito Mas. Since I moved here from New York about 8 years ago, I have consistently been disappointed with several LA/SOCAL "institutions"; they just do not live up to the hype. Among my disappointments: PINKS (so average), THE APPLE PAN (good, not great),JERRY'S DELI (just plain bad),GLADSTONE'S (horrible and overpriced)... Any thoughts? Tue Jun 24 03:43:34 -0700 2003 0 michael 1 282752 Pinks, Apple Pan, Jerry's, and Tommy's Burger all fall under the category of "underwhelming", for me at the very least. As much as I've heard the hype about these places from here or through word of mouth, I still "don't get" it. Border Grill is another restaurant that totally underwhelms the times I've gone there. I can't fanthom why people think its so good there when its below average at best with inept service. Tue Jun 24 04:00:37 -0700 2003 282750 0 Xericx 2 282764 Totally agree about BORDER GRILL; perfect example of good buzz, likable celebrichefs, and an absolutely mediocre experience. It is not that I heard that JERRY"S was great, but it is a place that has a buzz (it is a place to go when in LA)-; I just really can't believe that it stays open, it is so average (at best). I, too, like Apple Pan, but a great burger? No. Great fries? No. Just good. For you ex New Yorkers who can relate, I'll take Jackson Hole, Soup Burg, Three Guys, Viand, and many other burgers over Apple Pan. Tue Jun 24 11:49:31 -0700 2003 282752 0 michael 3 282810 As a former NY'er... Jerry''s was great in the beginning (when it morphed out of Starkey's), but that was years ago. I don't know ANYONE who thinks it's good now. Some of its appeal is probably due to it's convenience. As for Pink's - not any better (or worse) than any corner hot dog wagon in Manhattan. It's okay, but much like Tommy's (which I don't care for), probably more of an LA experience thing. Apple Pan - I'm with you, NEVER understood its appeal. Thai American (soon to be the late lamented), has a far superior burger. Gladstone's - I'm with the group on this. It's only an institution because of the view. You may need to question the people steering you wrong if their touting these places for food. Tue Jun 24 14:58:36 -0700 2003 282764 0 Les 2 282826 Ditto on Apple Pan...not worth the hassle of parking and baffling seating etiquette. Tue Jun 24 16:10:27 -0700 2003 282752 0 Greg Henry 1 282753 Some places just acquire a cachet that becomes self-sustaining after a while. In the case of Super Rica, I've always wondered if its mystique is aided by distance. I've only been there once; I thought it was okay. But since it's out of town, I figured it might have been an off day, or it might have been me. If it were in town, though, I might have gone three times, and realized the emperor had no clothes. It wouldn't be the first taco-stand mecca I'd had that realization about, either. I've lived in L.A. all my life, and can't get it up to visit Pink's...just can't make myself imagine a hotdog good enough to stand in line for, outside of a sports event. Jerry's has always been awful...where did you hear it was good? Gladstone's is another place where most locals know to take landlocked visitors for an expensive drink on the deck, but not to eat. On a hot summer evening, if you cadge one of the tables on the Gladstone's railing, you really can't beat getting bombed on overpriced mai tais as the sun sets, especially once you're drunk enough to start feeding the gulls peanuts with your bare hands. (Of course, if you're that drunk, you might even enjoy Jerry's.) The Apple Pan I've always loved, though; but perhaps I've developed a taste for exactly how they make their hickory burger and fries/well, or maybe it's just the accumulated memories of how warmly I've been treated there. It feels like home; it's a feeling I get in no other business in the city, and I've been here forty years now. (If you always get the same thing, you don't have to go more than a few times before you're recognized and your order is put in automatically, with a nod & smile.) To me, it's like the warmth you might get being a regular at a particular sushi bar, grafted onto a hamburger stand. It's heaven. Tue Jun 24 07:41:30 -0700 2003 282750 0 Peter 1 282758 Thats too bad about your La Super Rica experience, but there have been old posts warning about some of their more pedestrian plates e.g., carne asada. I hope you got a chance to try some of the other items that make them special, like the rajas or calabacita with pork. Jerry's Deli has been almost universally panned on this board as well, but have you tried Langer's for pastrami yet? Tue Jun 24 11:09:34 -0700 2003 282750 0 Ernie 1 282761 On the inisistence of my friend, went to this place called Tito's Tacos. Long line, so I figured that it must be good. It was average at best, but i've never had the slightest urge to go back. Tommy's is supposedly World Famous, but the tomatoes on the burgers are twice as thick as the patty. Heard some hype about Crustaceans a while ago and had dinner there three times since. Seems to be more of an atmosphere/trendy place because nothing i've tried seemed good, just alright. Tue Jun 24 11:37:21 -0700 2003 282750 0 dodgerx88 2 282762 I agree with you about Crustacean. You could better at any HK seafood place in MP area for less money. Tue Jun 24 11:40:33 -0700 2003 282761 0 tissue 3 283610 Can you get the garlic noodles in MP? I love the garlic noodles at Crustacean. Just curious. Thu Jul 03 00:38:55 -0700 2003 282762 0 KinLA 2 282771 Titos takes 2-3 times to develop the "urge" to go there. I, too, was unimpressed the first time I went there and didn't go back. the second time, I got hooked though. The salsa and the hard tacos were just too good of a combo to pass up. Tue Jun 24 12:43:13 -0700 2003 282761 0 Xericx 1 282768 Yeah, Gladstone's was really really bad, I thought. LA kinda sucks. New York is so much better. Tue Jun 24 12:28:37 -0700 2003 282750 0 Ed Heure 2 282770 lol. Eight years is indeed a long time to be "consistently disappointed." Tue Jun 24 12:30:17 -0700 2003 282768 0 Kendra 1 282772 i also ate at la super rica yesterday. i thought it was pretty damn good. i had the chorizo taco, taco de rajas, and a gordita stuffed with very spicy frijoles. they were all delicious. people i ate with had various other tacos, quesadillas, tamal de pescado (dover sole) and the chilaquiles. they liked their meals too. maybe you just ordered the wrong things. maybe la super rica just likes me more. maybe it's just different strokes. but good thing for you is you don't have to go back. lucky for me, i will go back...next time i'm fortunate enough to visit santa barbara. cheers. p.s. the comparing la food scenes to nyc food scenes is very, very tired. "good" and "bad" food can be found just about anywhere. Tue Jun 24 12:44:13 -0700 2003 282750 0 stretch 2 282872 I am glad LSR was good to you. Does it merit the raves by top chefs and food critics? It is reputedly some of the best Mexican Food in California, and in the country; did you find it so? I found it to be OK, far below its reputation as being great, not just good. Regarding LA vs. NY, if you read my post, that was not at all the point - I love LA food, and I love NY food. Wed Jun 25 00:55:01 -0700 2003 282772 0 michael 3 282874 I read your post; there was nothing in it about loving LA food. Wed Jun 25 01:08:49 -0700 2003 282872 0 Karen 4 282875 The post was not about loving LA food. Read my reply to Mc Michael. Wed Jun 25 01:27:14 -0700 2003 282874 0 michael 3 282900 Having never eaten at LSR, I'm of course eminently qualified to weigh in. I've heard that it's comparable in some ways to Loteria Grill where I've enjoyed myself several times. If LSR is that good or better, you would appear to be missing out. Have you tried Loteria? Wed Jun 25 11:36:57 -0700 2003 282872 0 mc michael 4 282968 OK. taste again. I go to the Farmers Market fairly often. Went to Loteria once. Ordered two varieties of enchiladas. One was passable, one was horrible. The meat was dry. The sauce was good but not fantastic. I think it's great that there is enough on the menu to satisfy others. There is certainly a line. I go elsewhere for Mexican food and wouldn't make a special trip to the Market for Loteria. And yes, perhaps I am an idiot. I love the handmade tortillas at Tia Juana's on the west side, and I've never had a bad mexican seafood cocktail. And I like nopalitos. Don't we all? (An aside to anyone who reads this - great deal at the Bossa Nova on Sunset near La Brea [maybe in the west hollywood one too], a plate LOADED with hearts of palm - 1/2 hearts of palm, 1/2 boring lettuce salad for $3.50. A can will cost $4-5 in most markets. Great deal, I think) Wed Jun 25 19:09:17 -0700 2003 282900 0 Jerome 4 283000 I like Loteria, but I am biased, the owner is an old friend. Wed Jun 25 22:22:37 -0700 2003 282900 0 michael 5 283008 Liking something that's good ain't bias. Thu Jun 26 00:38:10 -0700 2003 283000 0 mc michael 1 282782 Basically, on this type post, you are either preaching to the choir, or you are going to be dismissed as someone who doesn't get it. I've yet to read about anybody changing his/her mind. At least you got to vent. Now, why not tell us what you like? Tue Jun 24 13:10:09 -0700 2003 282750 0 mc michael 2 282870 In terms of "institutions" or buzz places in LA that deliver either food/value/atmosphere/experience or all combined...Zankou Chicken is great. Versailles is great. Mulberry Street Pizza is very good (though sometimes a little too light on cheese). My Father's Office is very good. Matsuhisa can be great. Phillippes is a great experience. Langer's lives up to the hype. Junior's baked goods are excellent. La Brea Bakery is great. Urth Cafe is very good. Bel Air Hotel lives up to its legend. Roscoe's is pretty good. Nozawa can be great. Monterey Park Dim Sum is great (3 or 4 great places). That's just off the top of my head.... Wed Jun 25 00:39:24 -0700 2003 282782 0 michael 1 282794 If I lived in the Hood, I might hit La Super Rica again. But, to me, it doesn't merit the hype, the drive or the line! As mc michael pointed out, everyone here is pretty die-hard. Even if quality wanes, they will stand by the little favorites. Tue Jun 24 13:46:37 -0700 2003 282750 0 Curt 2 282797 This is a good case in point. "LSR" usually pops up on the "Los Angeles" board. It's following appears to be from here. Tue Jun 24 13:49:13 -0700 2003 282794 0 Curt 2 282841 I agree, Curt. The perfect example of this is Tito's Tacos on Washington Blvd. The tacos are okay, not great, but it has a tremendous following! I enjoy them but I know when I go there exactly what I'm going to get, and sometimes you gotta go for the entire experience! Tue Jun 24 18:09:22 -0700 2003 282794 0 LesThePress 1 282805 In my humble opinion, to a certain extent, you seem to be confusing "food experience" with "stellar food experience." La Super Rica is fun, Pinks is fun, Apple Pan is fun, even Gladstones is fun [and forgive me, but you went to Gladstones for the FOOD? good lord, its the view you go for, not the food and I was told that my first year in LA]. If I want a stellar dining experience then I'm off to Valentino's or AOC or the like. The thing about a long established local "institution" is the history and the atmosphere and the places listed above all have history and atmosphere which makes them fun and distinguishes them from so-called fun places like say, Chucky Cheese or Mc Donalds. Every real city has its places like La Super Rica etc ---in Paris, you eat crepes with cheese, ham and egg from the street guys or you can go to Chartiers [I may have the name wrong-the place with the waiters and group tables], in Stockholm, you get the hot dogs with the flat bread, mashed potatoes and lettuce, etc etc etc. The point of these sorts of places is not just the food---which depending on your perspective may not be great but is certainly well above the evil McDonalds--but the longevity of the place and what it says about the city. Titos is another example of this---as a native angeleno told me, Titos is not about the tastiness of the food so much as the memo of what Mexican food used to be when he was growing up in the sixties--its the box tacos your mom could make, its the memory, its a comfort food. That said, I happen to like La Super Rica a lot---I've even driven out of towners up there from LA for lunch for the sole purpose of eatting there and without exception, they had a blast. You drive up the Coast and look at the water, you order the thing with the peppers and the cheese, the pork stuff, etc and you sit on the patio, drink a beer and watch the women pat out the tortillas. Its fun, its pleasurable, it tastes good. Its not Valentinos or any of those other places but thats not what its trying to be. Same thing for Pinks and the Apple Pan---its an experience, not a world class dining adventure. And there are times when nothing but Pinks will do. And I have to say, as someone else noted, I'm awfully sorry you've spent 8 years out here finding LA food inadequate compared to New York. Tue Jun 24 14:25:48 -0700 2003 282750 0 jenn 2 282828 Having just returned from a trip to North Carolina I couldn't wait to get back to all the marvellous restaurants here. Just eating at my new fave around the corner: Shakarchi on Westwood Blvd or ordering takout from OOHm on SM Blvd (it arrived 10 mins after I called with a plate (8.95) of two huge ground beef kebabs with heaping salad and pita plus cucumber/yoghurt mint dip for $2.95.). Just recovering from attending a fancy hotel brunch in the North Carolina highlands (late home of Eric Rudolph) where they were serving "for the first time" sushi: the wasabi was in a big bowl and the soy sauce in a huge bowl with a gravy ladle. We asked where the little dishes were to put the soy in and the server said, you just pour it over your plate! Hey its a start. Tue Jun 24 16:17:54 -0700 2003 282805 0 Zoe 2 282869 I never said I find LA food inadequate to New York; I do not. I like it out here,and I think there are great eating options, just like in New York. Wed Jun 25 00:27:15 -0700 2003 282805 0 michael 1 282814 First a defense of what you wrote: you didnt' say LA sucks and NY rules, just that you've been disappointed with some institutions. That being said, and to put this in language a New Yorker will understand, being disappointed with the food at Gladstones and Jerry's deli is like going to New York, eating at Mamma Leone's and saying is this the best New York can do. No one in history has ever said that Jerry's was good. It is uniformly awful. But it happens to be open late in neighborhoods that don't have much late night competition. Gladstones - again, like "jenn" wrote, is just for fun. Go for the view, and have some soup, or some beer or raw bar -how bad can it be. Simple grilled fish there is overpriced but won't kill you and the bread was pretty good when I was last there a few years ago. It's a touristy fun place. Next you'll be saying that the hot dogs at the tomorrowland terrace don't hold a candle to the hot dogs at the very bestest place in Chicago. Surprize. Apple Pan and Pinks are just for fun, again. There are better places in town for burgers and hot dogs. I like Cassells. I also like carneys. But I like sitting at the counter at apple pan on occasion and sitting in the back at Pinks where I first went when i was four years old. Some institutions are just that. Musso and franks has great drinks, and a good oyster stew. And a great thing that goes with the drinks is their stuffed celery (stuffed with a roquefort spread). It's food circa 1945 and not the best example of that food at any rate. But French Dips (double dipped) at Phillipes or at Coles P&E Buffet are an institution as well and I like them (be sure to try the mustard at Philippes). Not every deli in New York is great. there are five or six amazing ones. Wolfe's is famous and it sucks. Not every stall peddling pizza in Manhattan or even on Arthur Avenue is nirvana. Sometimes the average is pretty lousy. (I know this isn't the original topic but hey). The burgers at the Sunset Hamlet, at Jay's Jay burgers (be sure and use the peppers) with the lemonade, at Cassell's, at Irv's (is it still there on Santa monica) at quite a few other places are really quite good. For tacos, an institution here is El Taurino. Any number of places in Huntington Park will probably top Super Rica. I like the tacos at el Jerezano on hazeltine in the Valley. But in Santa Barbara, it's nice to have a variety of places to go. And Super Rica provides a mix of things, not just antojitos, and not just set plates. (On sunset, you might like La Parilla or el Siete Mares near silverlake, both been around forever). And for local hype, I still like the EAST LA Serenata de Garibaldi. Make sure to get the ate de membrillo with queso fresco for dessert. a last note on La Super-rica. I remember hearing the hype almost fifteen years ago when a foodie friend went on about how LSR was Julia Child's favorite restaurant in the world. That alone made me very suspicious. I've been. And sorry, I probably should go with a devotee who knows what to order because it was nice but I didn't get the substantive difference. Perhaps because it offers good mexican food in a setting that not at all scary for some folks who feel a bit uneasy in a neighborhood where all the billboards are in spanish... But that's too much projection. DON'T FLAME ME, PLEASE. EL 7 MARES 3131 W SUNSET BLVD LA PARRILLA 3129 W SUNSET BLVD PHILIPPE 1001 N ALAMEDA 90012 COLES BUFFET 118 E 6TH ST 90014 EL TAURINO 1104 S HOOVER ST TACOS EL JEREZANO 5937 HAZELTINE AVE 91401 VAN NUYS CASSELL'S HAMBURGER 3266 W 6TH ST JAY'S JAY BURGERS 4481 SANTA MONICA BLVD 90029 LOS ANGELES IRV'S BURGERS 8289 SANTA MONICA BLVD 90046 WEST HOLLYWOOD HAMBURGER HAMLET 9201 SUNSET BLVD 90069 LA SERENATA 1842 E 1ST ST 90033 LOS ANGELES CARNEYS 8351 SUNSET BLVD 90069 WEST HOLLYWOOD AND 12601 VENTURA BLVD 91604 STUDIO CITY MUSSO AND FRANK GRILL 6667 HOLLYWOOD BLVD 90028 And don't forget Drinks (you may need a jacket) at YAMASHIRO 1999 N SYCAMORE AVE 90068 LOS ANGELES Last, for everyone, remember that a roundtrip plane ticket to New York costs less than a meal at the (late) Ginza Sushi-ko. Tue Jun 24 15:18:17 -0700 2003 282750 0 Jerome 2 282820 Well said. Great list. To which I'd add till July 10 or thereabouts, the hamburger platter at Thai American Express Cafe, 2903 Rowena, Silver Lake. Tue Jun 24 15:50:46 -0700 2003 282814 0 mc michael 2 282868 In response, yes - nobody said Jerry's or Gladstone's had great food; but they are "Institutions" here, like it or not. In my opinion, they have bad food that is overpriced; and there is nothing at all remarkable about the overall experience. Tavern on the Green, Carnegie Deli and many others have mediocre food, but they are worthwhile experiences - the atmosphere and the whole experience is worth having at least once. In LA, Musso & Frank's and Phillipes do the same. I do not agree with you about Pink's and Apple Pan - many people claim that they are each the best in their respective niche. For me, Pink's is worthless; I like Apple Pan, but far from the best. A New Yorker would never go to Mama Leone's, but Jerry's and Gladstone's are filled with locals; I don't get it. Regarding LSR,I have heard that their specials are, well, special, but the rest of it sure isn't. Wed Jun 25 00:21:04 -0700 2003 282814 0 michael 3 282871 Yes, you haven't lived since you've watched the sun set over the ocean at Tavern on the Green. Wed Jun 25 00:53:25 -0700 2003 282868 0 Bob 4 282873 How true...And there sure is nothing as nice as taking a stroll through Central Park to Gladstones for horrible fish. Wed Jun 25 00:57:49 -0700 2003 282871 0 michael 5 282880 Really, this thread has gone on too long and whoever said it's all just preaching to the choir got it right and anyway Jerome's superb "long" post at the head of this subthread has said all there is to say on the subject so . . . of course I'm going to chime in anyway. . . . Just to say one thing. With all respect, anyone who truly believes "there is nothing at all remarkable about the overall experience" at Gladstones just might be missing the gene that enables one to love LA--you know, the same gene that Annie Hall had and Alvy Singer didn't. Sure, the food is rarely better than passable, but that big patio is nevertheless one of the happiest places anyone can go in Southern California, and I know very few people who don't remember some moment they spent there --a fun touristy afternoon, a romantic date, dolphins glimped offshore, a gaggle of pretty girls or beefy guys at the next table, whatever. If that means transitory artificiality predominates over lasting substance in this case, so be it, that's one of the keys to the way LA works--for those for whom it does work (cf. Rayner Banham's "The Architecture of Four Ecologies" for more on this theme). Wed Jun 25 02:23:41 -0700 2003 282873 0 PayOrPlay 6 282881 He's certainly missing the gene that enables one to love the beach. Wed Jun 25 02:34:52 -0700 2003 282880 0 David 7 282882 Is this a joke? Because I think Gladstone's sucks I am missing the "beach" gene. Let me be clear: I love the beach, in fact I am there several days a week. I also love LA, and millions and millions of LA restaurants. Why are these posts so defensive of these mediocre places; just because one criticizes certain places he does not like it means that he: a)Hates LA b)Hates the beach c)Hates life d)Is a New York snob? Come on. Wed Jun 25 02:51:18 -0700 2003 282881 0 michael 8 282884 I don't typically engage in this type of debate, but, truly, Michael, have you no romantic bone in your body? The former posters acknowledged the mediocre food at Gladstones, but pointed out that the reason, in THEIR opinion, that it remained an "LA institution" (and quotes meant seriously) is because many a person, and poster here, have had lovely times enjoying the drinks, the view, and the ambiance, despite the food. When you are talking about an "institution," food is not everything . . . What's there to argue with, when it comes to Gladstones? Yeah, the food's not the best, but name a place with a better view. There happen to be very few spots on our lovely coastline here in LA where you can enjoy the view . . . and none as far as I've seen have good food (caveat, haven't been to Moonshadows since they revamped the menu). My mom (a second generation native (making me third generation)) made a well taken critique of LA in her day, that we don't, in terms of our restaurants and hotels, cherish our coast like some other "sea oriented" towns, and, well, we don't. In recent years there've been a few new additions to the coastal scene, like the Lobster, and the Shutters and Casa Del Mar hotels in Santa Monica, but before then, and mostly still since then, we're stuck with Gladstones, Moonshadows, the Charthouse and Geoffrey's. IMHO, there's nothing like a great view of the sunset, with friends, over drinks, to make a great LA experience. Too bad we don't have more options. The original poster in this thread confessed to dismay at the touting of Gladstones as an "LA Institution" for good FOOD. Many posters plead their case that it was never about the food, and that they would never send anyone there with the impression that they'd get a great meal there. In my opinion, that does not in any way detract from the fact that they WILL get ambiance, and a great view, so long as the visitor doesn't go expecting more. Take that for what you will, but it's worth something, for sure. Wed Jun 25 03:20:35 -0700 2003 282882 0 DanaB 9 282886 OK, yes this is getting tiresome, but I will reply. I agree with your post...I will grant you that Gladstone's is a nice spot for a drink at Sunset. But, personally, I much prefer Shutters, Geoffrey's, or Duke's. Wed Jun 25 03:56:03 -0700 2003 282884 0 michael 3 282893 I happened to stop by a Jerry's a couple weeks ago and tried a pastrami on rye. While not cheap, I found the sandwich to be tasty and satisfying (which is more than I can say for Carnegie Deli). Furthermore, when I was at Gladstone's in the late 80s I had the crab sandwich. It was stuffed with succulent crabmeat and delicious. The whole experience was fun and again satisfying. When I hear people bashing these places they never seem to point out specific menu items. Kinda makes me wonder... I would like to mention an institution that I find to be way overpriced and completely lacking of charm or character IMHO. To say I was underwhelmed would be an understatement. Morton's steakhouse. Wed Jun 25 10:52:06 -0700 2003 282868 0 JR 4 282928 Jerry's Deli makes a good Corned Beef or Pastrami on Rye. Pickles are good. Gladstone's makes (made) a good Halibut with wine and veggies steamed in parchment paper. Keep it simple and you shouldn't be disappointed. Wed Jun 25 14:28:03 -0700 2003 282893 0 Just Larry 1 282824 What? Didn't anyone let you in on the secret? The hype is just a conspiracy to ensure that the locals don't have to rub elbows with dirty, ugly tourists. ;-) If you think about it, EVERY city has its institutions that fall short of their hyped-up reputations. Example, John's Pizza in New York - good pizza, but not the greatest ever. In fact, I find that most New York pizza these days doesn't live up to the hype and is resting on a reputation earned many, many years ago. Other New York institutions that fail to impress or don't live up to the hype: Carnegie Deli, Tavern on the Green, Russian Tea Room (in its day), 21 Club, Joe's Shanghai, etc. Also, most institutions, even the good ones, have a few items on their menus that are just okay or even bad. Example, if you order lamb chops at the Tadich Grill in San Francisco, you probably won't be as impressed as the person who ordered cioppino. In the case of LSR, I find their daily menu board items just okay (although the fresh, handmade tortillas are way better than what you'll get at a so-called "fresh Mex" chain). LSR's best stuff is usually on the "specials" menu. I think their sopes and tamales verduras are very good (not the best ever), and their pozole is the best I've had *so far.* For what it's worth, never, ever trust popular opinion. Yes, there are long, long lines outside of the Cheesecake Factory here and Carmine's in New York. I've seen long lines at the McDonald's at 28th/Park when for the same money they paid for a Big Mac, fries and coke those people could have walked a short block and feasted on a full Indian meal on Lexington. Maybe you've seen a lot of people at Jerry's - well, millions of people watch Jerry Springer. Remember, there are more stupid people than smart ones. Hype can lead to inflated expectations. Sometimes what is perfectly good food is disappointing because we're expecting the absolute *best* due to all the raves. And somehow that makes perfectly good food taste a little worse. However, in the case of Gladstone's, Jerry's and Pink's it wasn't that good to begin with (hmmm, maybe you should be cautious about going to restaurants that use a possessive ('s) in their names - but beware of possessive misuse on this board: for example, it's Josie, not Josie's; Spago, not Spago's; Matsuhisa, not Matsuhisa's; etc.). And, come on, you gotta admit that LSR is much better than the Mexican food you'll find in New York (at least Manhattan). Tue Jun 24 16:07:18 -0700 2003 282750 0 Chris G.. 2 282837 Next you'll be dissing Carl's Jr. Tue Jun 24 17:10:19 -0700 2003 282824 0 mc michael 3 282838 Hmmm, I think Carl's Jr.'s ads do a good job of dissing themselves (especially the chiliburger ad where the runny brown goop loudly plops on the floor between the legs of a sitting woman - a "freudian" visual slip if there ever was one). Tue Jun 24 17:17:38 -0700 2003 282837 0 Chris G. 4 282840 Do they actually pay someone to come up with those lame Carls' Jr commercials? What about the one where they're poking around the live chicken looking for its "nuggets"? Tue Jun 24 17:48:09 -0700 2003 282838 0 markn 5 282853 Yes this should move to not about food. And the old ad of Carl's Jr, a disco ad than ran with the tagline - "At Carl's Jr. you've got taste," is still one of my favorite ads. Tue Jun 24 20:32:11 -0700 2003 282840 0 Jerome 6 282861 I still don't understand why every aspiring actor in LA doesn't steal the giant vinyl FAMOUS STAR decals Carl's puts outside their windows every few months. I would think they'd be on the wall of every apartment in Hollywood by now. Tue Jun 24 22:07:57 -0700 2003 282853 0 Harry 7 282862 Because they realize it would be in bad taste. ;-D Tue Jun 24 22:25:27 -0700 2003 282861 0 WLA 8 282863 lol You're meeting a better class of actor than I am. Tue Jun 24 22:28:35 -0700 2003 282862 0 Harry 9 282901 The wannabe actors I see driving around all seem to have stickers for (the band ) Porn*. Wed Jun 25 11:44:37 -0700 2003 282863 0 mc michael 10 282903 I guess Carl's is fortunate they don't put that on their windows. Wed Jun 25 11:48:37 -0700 2003 282901 0 Harry 5 282888 While it's not technically called the "nugget"...there is a very tender, very flavorful part of the chicken called the oyster, which is nuggetlike in fashion, on the back, just above the back of the legs. Just for, uh, your random fact of the day I guess Wed Jun 25 05:28:02 -0700 2003 282840 0 fooddude37 6 282906 I can see it now......Chicken McOysters.... :-) Wed Jun 25 12:20:48 -0700 2003 282888 0 markn 6 282921 The "nugget or oyster" was used as a clue in the recent movie "Red Dragon". It helped crack the case. Wed Jun 25 13:55:53 -0700 2003 282888 0 Just Larry 6 282936 Interesting. So would someone like to explain to the ad wizards at Mendelsohn Zien (Carl's Jr.'s ad agency) where the hell you can find the strip on a chicken? Wed Jun 25 15:15:58 -0700 2003 282888 0 Chris G. 4 282842 Next you'll be dissing Ruth's Chris. Tue Jun 24 18:09:55 -0700 2003 282838 0 mc michael 1 282890 Two words: Carnegie Deli Wed Jun 25 10:26:14 -0700 2003 282750 0 JR 1 282909 Somewhere, buried in this thread, somonee dissed Tommy's. The original, at Beverly and Rampart, is worth pointing out. Otherwise, we're just talking chili burgers! Wed Jun 25 12:36:58 -0700 2003 282750 0 Curt 1 282976 Wow. 55 responses and counting. congratulations, Michael. I often can get no help when I ask for it. Long story short. Some people who don't share others tastes hype a place beyond all sense. That has happened here in LA. Maybe it even happens elsewhere. Wed Jun 25 19:35:08 -0700 2003 282750 0 Jerome 1 283005 OK, so I'm relatively new in town. And I understand that that may account for what I have to say, but here goes: The spicy polish sausage with pastrami and sauerkraut at Pink's was a revelation. Have you tried it? What I can't understand, though, is LA's thing about where you can get the best hamburger in town. Being game, and into food, I went up to a place in Pasadena (with pies), to Apple Pan and to the In and Out (double double animal style) in search of this paragon, and for the life of me can't see what everyone is talking about. It certainly wasn't in any of those places. Stick a slab of good ground meat in a frying pan, top with some grilled onions and maybe some sauteed mushrooms and blue cheese, and that's a hamburger worth effusing over. Now, I certainly can understand the "institution" and nostalgia arguments about some of these places, but that isn't what I've been hearing in the reviews I've been reading (on other sites...is that the problem?)...it was always how fantastic the food was. Oh well, bottom line, I enjoyed the enthusiasm in the reviews. Anyone who cares enough to wax eloquent over food is someone I can identify with. Thu Jun 26 00:18:05 -0700 2003 282750 0 sukee 2 283007 Your point is well made. That said, immediately run over to Thai American Express Cafe, 2903 Rowena in Silver Lake (they are shutting down soon) and order the Hamburger Platter (it's at the back of the menu) medium rare. If that doesn't work, get to Santa Monica & Virgil to Jay's Jayburger and get a double chili cheese burger. Tell us what you think. Thu Jun 26 00:36:13 -0700 2003 283005 0 mc michael 3 283022 Or if in the Long Beach area, Bake 'N Broil has outstanding burgers and pies, and everything on their menu is made from scratch. Bake 'N Broil 3697 Atlantic Ave Long Beach. 562-595-0396 Thu Jun 26 10:43:30 -0700 2003 283007 0 Ernie 3 283124 Thanks. I'll try to make it over to Thai American this weekend. Fri Jun 27 02:10:48 -0700 2003 283007 0 sukee 2 283030 From the type of burger you described that you like (fried onions, blue cheese) I suggest that, rather than the "hamburger stand" type burger for which LA is famous, you might enjoy the burger at Father's Office in Santa Monica, which comes with arugula, carmelized onions, blue and guyere cheese, standard. Many think it is the best burger in LA. Father's Office, 1018 Montana Ave., Santa Monica 310-393-2337 Thu Jun 26 12:46:54 -0700 2003 283005 0 DanaB 3 283128 damn that fathers office burger is good and get a purlple haze beer while you are at it Fri Jun 27 03:19:35 -0700 2003 283030 0 darthvader 2 283054 And while you're at it, go to Cassel's on 6th near downtown and order a #23. Thu Jun 26 15:00:36 -0700 2003 283005 0 PeteEats 2 283122 Considering the LA burger thing, I think there are really two standards with which to rate burgers. There's the fast food kind (a la Apple Pan, Jay's, Meatty Meat, In 'n Out, etc.) and the made-to-order burgers (a la Thai American, Cassel's, Father's Office, etc.). I don't consider them to be the same category of burger when I'm judging them. They are/can be delicious in their own ways. Analogous to the burger rating duality is rating pizzas in NYC. There are different standards by which one would rate pizzas by the slice and whole pies. (The only problem with this dual rating system is that there's a growing consensus that there's only one good pizza place in all of NYC, whole or slice -- Difara's in Brooklyn -- and I'm squarely in that camp.) Anyway, the point is that while I can understand your disdain for the "fast food" burger over the made-to-order kind, I feel they're different creatures. And then the nostalgia factor just puts a wrench in it too. Regardless of which you prefer, I believe they both have their merits, and the longevity of both kinds seems to be evidence enough for their particular deliciousness. Fri Jun 27 00:50:49 -0700 2003 283005 0 Eric Eto 3 283125 Ooh, I definitely do not disdain fast food hamburgers. I just heard raves about the "best" hamburgers in town and took them at face value. I can get behind the kind of hamburger in which the drip-all-over-your-hands kind of sauciness is what it's all about. It's just hard to justify raves about that kind of hamburger over others in the same category, aside from nostalgia. There isn't alot of nuance there. I'd love to see a blind tasting on some fast food hamburgers and see how many people can tell them apart! Fri Jun 27 02:24:02 -0700 2003 283122 0 sukee 4 283223 You know, blind tasting this or that is a great idea, and something the board could collectively pull off. It could be a lot of fun. Good thinking! Fri Jun 27 21:55:14 -0700 2003 283125 0 gj 1 283167 Dare I mention Renu Nakorn? I've found it becoming progressively worse. I believe it's falling into the ranks of "has been". Fri Jun 27 13:35:44 -0700 2003 282750 0 Curt