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Top 5 Best restaurants in Rhode Island, Not fancy

Why and where? What to order, favorite top 3 dishes and desserts. Great if the food comes right from the farms in the area, I love that. Any great unique places I shouldn't miss?

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  1. A few of my favorites are:

    Quito's, Bristol (some of the best seafood I've had in New England)
    Leo's Ristorante, Bristol (good sandwiches and Italian entrees; nice outdoor area)
    Apsara, Providence (often-outstanding Cambodian, Thai, and Vietnamese food)
    Mamma Luisa, Newport (homey, cozy Italian place with very good good)

    Uhh, I can't come up with a fifth right now, Back later! ;-b

    8 Replies
    1. re: hiddenboston

      Thank you, I have no idea about what is good or not and this helps. We will be there in a few weeks for 4 days, Blackstone Valley for a big anniversary and I love great food but prefer cheap eats that are great quality. Thanks, alot of people on this site love the very expensive and I know there are Grandma, Grandpa, Aunts and Uncles cooking somewhere, where it is authentic and great food for not too expensive. I support the little guy!! Any other suggestions thanks and if they have web site great so I can view the menus before. I do want to splurge one night and get dressed up for our anniversary, Staying in Gloester. Thank you

      1. re: nbermas

        bjennif gave you some great suggestions.....

          1. re: nbermas

            some Western and northern RI places that may interest you. D. Carlo smithfield, Euro Cafe and restaurant smithfield , Isabella N. Smithfield,

          2. re: hiddenboston

            Love Mamma Luisa's!
            Al Forno in Providence is a must if you've never been. They're known for their grilled pizzas, and the fruit tarts are delicious!

            La Laiterie at Farmstead is another delicious spot - I love their salads and burger with polenta fries (ingenious!). Mac and cheese is yummy =)

            New Rivers is another find. Farm fresh salads and greens from Dartmouth, their burger is yummy, and herb-infused cocktails are often available. Small, cozy spot.

            New to the scene - Pietra on Sakonnet Point. All locally procured foods (Treaty Rock meat!!!!). It's like The Modern in NYC, but by the ocean. However, they're working in their service.


            1. re: allieb2031

              The OP was looking for "cheap eats that are great quality". While I love New Rivers and La Laiterie (Al Forno is meh), they're certainly not what the OP had in mind.

              1. re: allieb2031

                Pietra does have a beautiful location, but I have to say that the food was a little disappointing--both the appetizers and the main were solid, but unremarkable--and the servers seemed enthusiastic, but clueless. There's potential, but right now it's not worth the money or the drive.

                1. re: BusterBrooklyn

                  Does either of the restaurants have outdoor seating?

            2. I don't know if I can come up with five, but as a law student living in RI - cheap and good is important!

              The Grape Room in Middletown is definitely right up there. Great RI style calamari and I LOVE the nachos. A friend said the lobster club sandwich was one of the best sandwiches she'd ever had. Link here: http://www.thegraperoomri.com/
              Another recent favorite is Twist on Angell. I had the popcorn with chipotle lime butter and a four cheese pizza but added red sauce and meatballs to it - tasted just like a meatball sub! Friends really liked their sandwiches. Link here: http://www.pinellimarrarestaurants.co...
              For seafood we like Evelyns in Tiverton. You can order at the window and eat outside on the picnic tables and don't need to tip. Be sure to take the ride down through Little Compton to Sakonnet Point or find South Shore Beach - follow Rte 77 south to a left onto Swamp Road and a right onto South Shore Road. It terminates at the beach. Littel Compton is heaven on earth in my opinion. Link here: http://www.evelynsdrivein.com/
              Hmmm. Some of the best veal I've had since Sablone's closed in East Boston is at Angelo's on Federal Hill. It's cash only but they have an ATM. Get there early or plan to wait. Link here: http://www.angelosonthehill.com/
              Number five is going to be ice cream. Love Brickley's down near Naragansett on Route 1 but a new fave closer to East Bay is Somerset Creamery. Try the Blueberry Pie ice cream - totally delish and you have to get a waffle cone. Link here: http://www.somersetcreamery.com/


              2 Replies
              1. re: krism

                Oy vey! Road trip! Thanks for the update!

                1. re: BJennif

                  I have to disagree,while the prices are great at twist I really do not like the food. I think they use to many ingredients in each dish.I always feel ill after eating there.

                2. Mike's Kitchen tucked into a VFW Hall in Cranston has phenomenal Italian hours are sporadic so call ahead The V.F.W. post is at 170 Randall Street; phone (401) 946-5320

                  1. I have to disagree with Leo's -- we had a very ordinary "sauce out of a jar" experience there, and Evelyn's (just down the road from us) is greasy and over priced for what you get. Our favorite place (it's not cheap, but they do have certain deals for three course meals on certain week nights) is De Wolfe Tavern in Bristol.

                    4 Replies
                    1. re: Fram143

                      DeWolf's does have delicious food and an amazing building, but be advised that the service leaves something to be desired (split the naan-style sandwiches, Indian-style Philly cheese steak and a seafood/lobster salad sandwich with the coconut milk mussels for an app). If you have no where else to go that evening...it really is fantastic.

                      I agree about Leo's...Roberto's (down the street from Leo's) has better food in my opinion. Although creamy pastas are a diet no-no...BOY, are they tasty there (carbonara, pink vodka sauce) great chocolate espresso dessert.

                      1. re: georma

                        I am always looking for a phenomenal pink sauce. mmmm.

                      2. re: Fram143

                        Ok - too many pretentious, fancy & eclectic places being recommended. Great eats and not fancy:
                        LEO'S in Bristol - it's all great, homemade food and family recipes. (I highly recommend the tortellini caesar salad)
                        Crossroad Pub in Warren - (never a disappointment, no one mentioned this one?)
                        Wright's Farm - you have to go there to appreciate it

                        1. re: Fram143

                          Please don't mention Evelyn's in a discussion about food...

                          they don't serve it...

                          tourist gouging wanabee's...about the most disgusting dining expereience I have ever had...

                        2. I think there are some good suggestions here, but I would add D. Carlo in Smithfield. I have never had a bad meal here. Anything is good - pizza to sandwiches, pasta to fish. The atmosphere is casual.

                          1. Top 5 not fancy...by not fancy I am assuming you mean not foo-foo and someplace that you do not think of as overly expensive (even though it may not be cheap). Here goes:

                            1) Haruki Japanese Restaurant - Route 5 Cranston. I can and do often argue it is the best Japanese restaurant in New England (and yes I have been to all of the "good" ones in Boston (I am still partial to Guyahama but it has slipped a bit in recent years...) haruki now owns 3 restaurants but the one is cranston is still by far the best. His sushi memu is vast, fresh and creative. The kitchen menu lacks creativity but definitely has quality working for it.

                            2) King's Garden - Rolfe Street Cranston. Walk in you think...early 70's decor. Forget what it looks like. 2 menus...American and Hong Kong style. Go with the Hong Kong style menu. All day dim sum that is made fresh in the restaurant, along with 10 different authentic soups (my fave is the West Lake Beef soup which they call Beef and Parsley soup...with the duck and straw mushroom a close second). They make a very authentic Hong Kong style steamed fish and it is one of the few restaurants you can get shrimp dishes with the heads on...a must if you want flavor and if you want something to approximates authentic. Best dish on the menu might be the Chicken Ball noodle dish. All this and a am of 4 can eat here for less than $50 with no problem.

                            3) Angelos Civita Restaurante - Atwells Ave Federal Hill. 77 years and counting I think. Best Chicken Parm in the state and that is saying a lot as RI has some excellent restaurants. Community tables at lunch. Dishes like pasta with olive oil and sardines. True Italian and very affordable. Dinner for 2 less than $25 if you are not drinking wine.

                            4) Wright's Farm Slatersville RI. Okay, I know Wrights farm is either loved or hated. But for 40 years a restaurant that serves 2000 people at a time can't be all bad. My family actually loves it and we go whenever we are north of Johnston. The menu is limited all the Chicken, salad, pasta, french fries and rolls you can eat for $10.95. Be careful when you go because you can wait 2 hours for a table. But the Chicken falls off the bone, the pasta sauce is quite good and the french fries are a personal fav. This thread was al about not fancy and there are few places less fancy than Wrights.

                            5) Dave's Bar and Grille Post Road Warwick. The fact is Dave's might be the best Non Fancy Restaurant in RI. I remember when the Grilled Cheese with French Fries was $.50 (today it is $1.99) but the Hamburgers are excellent...thick juicy and hearty. The Pub Fries are great. But getting away from Dave's pub food a little and he serves excellent Lobster rolls, good chowder, Chicken sandwiches and wraps...and a full dinner menu including local Italian favorites that are better than "don't suck". It is definitely a local's bar as there are often a softball or hockey team there after the game but the food is good, the bar list extensive and the prices quite reasonable.

                            Honorable mentions:
                            The Original Stanley's in CF (the new one in the Jewelry District in Providence just sucks)
                            Ted's Montana grille in Cranston (chain restaurant so it should not get votes)
                            Sea Shai in New Port - Excellent Japanese food...the problem is in Newport you really should eat NE style.
                            Kwang's Dynasty - Clock tower plaza in Cranston- another great Hong Style Chinese restaurant if you know about the Chinese Menu and are brave enough to order off it.
                            Ribs - in Atwood Ave. in Johnston...great unpretentious non chain BBQ joint
                            Meritage - Post Road East Greenwich - wicked good pizza but the real treat is their menu items including the baked Mac and Cheese and the daily fish special.

                            17 Replies
                            1. re: late to dinner

                              There are some great recs in this post (bravo for giving props to Dave's in Warwick, which is totally underrated in my opinion), but I do have to vehemently disagree with Ted's, and not because it's a chain. I wanted to like it, I really did. And we tried it repeatedly (my kids were obsessed with the wiki stix they give out). But, aside from their bison burgers (and that's provided you get one that is actually served hot), I have been disappointed in every single thing we've ever eaten there. (The pickles might be another exception). Also totally overpriced.

                              I would also like to mention as a great, reasonably-priced spot Fat Belly's Pub in Warwick. (It's actually on the warwick/east greenwich line, near goddard park). It's tiny, but I had one of the best burgers I've ever had there. Everything on the menu is killer. The chef/owner is the former chef of sophia's in warwick. Supposedly opening up another location in East Greenwich but I don't know whatever happened to that.

                              1. re: dagwood

                                I agree with your opinions of Ted's. The burgers and onion rings are fine, but everything else was disappointing. Everything on the menu sounded much better than what was actually delivered to my table.

                                1. re: dagwood

                                  I've been to Ted's 3 different times - the first time, I enjoyed quite possibly the best hamburger I'd ever eaten...then the last 2 times, total disappointment! Oh well...

                                  1. re: dagwood

                                    I like Ted's but I prefaced my comments with the fact that it is a chain and therefore it will always be inconsistent. I think the beer can Chicken is excellent. The lemonade is always good, and the bison burgers creative. Compared to the other restaurants in Garden City, I like it. But I am biased because I like Bison much more than beef.

                                    I am not a huge fan of the Fat Belly Pub. However... my new personal fav Asian Restaurant is right down the road...Kon Asian Bistro (where the old Almacs used to be. And if we are talking good value for food...I miss the old Termineci's in EG.

                                    1. re: dagwood

                                      A couple of years ago, after a Garden City outing, I insisted on going to Fat Belly with my mom after reading about it here. Maybe it was a case of inflated expectations.... but we were kind of like "Eh."

                                      I am curious about Mike's Kitchen in the VFW though!

                                      1. re: dagwood

                                        I've never had a bad meal at Ted's. I've been there four or five times. The bison burgers, bison steaks, bison chili, lemonade, malts, and appetizers were always great. Hot, juicy, flavorful.

                                        I rarely care for a restaurant's atmosphere or service, being only interested in the food, but Ted's is a little quieter than most restaurants are these days, and it's nicely decorated/designed inside. The service has always been cooperative and capable.

                                        Maybe I just got lucky?

                                        1. re: theholycow

                                          I agree with you 100% on Ted's service. It's always been very good. I wish my experience with their food though was more on par with yours, as I did have such high hopes.

                                          I will say I went for lunch recently and had a quite tasty chicken caesar salad.

                                      2. re: late to dinner

                                        I haven't been to Haruki East in about 3 years, since the Cranston location is closer, but we're meeting people there this Sat. and I'm curious why you feel the Eastside location is inferior to Cranston?

                                        1. re: Joltingjoey

                                          It is night and day between Cranston and Wayland square. I have discussed this many times with Haruki. He spends far more time in Cranston than he does in providence so the quality control is different. The menu in Providence was designed to be more fusion (for example no bento boxes and no Chicken katsu, but instead they do more with glazes and pork) where as Cranston is far more traditional, simple and to be honest of higher quality. Add to that the staff in Cranston is just better....there is no turnover there. Several have been with him since he moved from Park Ave. My office is 5 minutes from Wayland square and I drive out to Cranston for lunch a few times a week. I am not sure I am explaining this that well but they are just different. I will say this Providence is the better place to sit for a drink.

                                          1. re: late to dinner

                                            I should probably start a new thread on this, but thanks for the explanation, Late for Dinner. I rarely order anything except for sushi, which is always great at the original Cranston location, but seemed pretty comparable at Haruki East last few times I was there, which was at least 3 years ago. Hope we won't be disappointed.

                                            1. re: late to dinner

                                              Haruki in Cranston has slipped drastically. Greasy tempura, poorly executed teriyaki, okay sushi/sashimi. No more for me. Seems they are or were resting on their laurels. Now I go to Ichiban or Ebisu. Have been disappointed too many times recently with Haruki.

                                              1. re: RhodeIslandRed

                                                I totally agree RI red. Went to Haruki a couple nights ago. Sushi was very bland. No flavor to speak of. Should've gone to Ichiban. Always happy there. Great mango shrimp roll and spider roll. My wife love the white tuna sashimi too.

                                          2. re: late to dinner

                                            There's another Haruki in Providence, isn't there? How is that one?

                                            1. re: hiddenboston

                                              There's Haruki Express on Waterman near Thayer, targeted to the college crowd. It's good in a pinch, but not as high quality as Haruki East down the street. I generally prefer Sushi Express around the corner on Thayer.

                                              The *best* reason to go to Haruki East is that it's essentially a mini-Japanese market, with all of the snacks and delicacies that are tough to find elsewhere.

                                              - Garris
                                              Greater City Providence Urbanism Blog

                                            2. re: late to dinner

                                              late to dinner -- Thanks for such thoughtfully composed reviews. I am going to check out dim sum at King's Garden tomorrow night with some friends. I'm always excited to try out a hidden treasure. I'll report back... let me know if you recall any other must-orders!

                                              1. re: foxy fairy


                                                I hope it was as good as I raved. I could give you a months worth of meals at Kings Garden...some on the menu some off. We were there last night and had the aromatic chicken hot pot. It was great. I am pretty sure that if they were to update the decor you would not be able to get into the place. Unless they raise the prices to pay for it. That would suck.

                                                1. re: late to dinner

                                                  late to dinner -- here is a very! late response:

                                                  Kings Garden was fantastic! I went with two dear friends and someone is always saying "remember that FABULOUS meal we had?" I got so many points for "discovering" it, and of course I'll pass the points along to you. YUM.

                                                  I lived in Sichuan province for several months and ate hot pot all the time there! I didn't know that KG served hot pot. I might try it next time! Once I swallowed an entire hot pepper and learned the trick of downing vinegar (fast) to cool my throat.

                                                  Could you give me some other ideas on what to order next time I make it to Kings Garden?

                                            3. The Grape Room and Gold's Wood-fired Grill in Middletown are both really good.

                                              1. These are just SOME of my favorites. Since I have such a hard time *committing* to anything, I can't say that these are my ONLY favorites, but I know that I am always delighted with the food here:

                                                *84 High Street, Westerly. -- Always a delight, and I think the food is better than many places in Providence. Lunch specials under $10, with great portions. The antipasto, pasta specials, salads are all fantastic, and their smashed potatoes are just sooo darn good.

                                                *Salvation Cafe, Newport. -- I haven't been in a few years, but I know they run affordable dinner specials, and I always found dinners fun (quirky cool decor) and delicious.

                                                *Roma, Atwells Ave, Providence -- self-serve for lunch. Pork sandwich, make sure you get a lot of the onions, with mayo and provolone. Stock up on goodies from the deli while you're there.

                                                *Chilangos, Atwells Ave, Providence -- I am sad to hear that the menu recently changed and prices have climbed, but last time I went I was quite impressed. The pambazo is a fantastic little treat (basically a juicy chicken sandwich) that I have only seen before in Mexico. Great decor, fantastic food. Not Tex-Mex.

                                                I need to think on this one. More later.

                                                honorable mention --

                                                *Not Just Snacks, Hope St, Prov. I hear that the Indian place on Federal Hill is better, but I haven't made it over there yet, and I am consistently tickled-pink with the food at Not Just Snacks. Great Indian market across the street.

                                                *for take-out fried seafood -- Iggy's clam shack, Narragansett. Iggy's will always be my favorite for chowder, clam cakes, and fish sandwiches. Take it to the lighthouse or the beach.

                                                *For a quick sweet snack -- I like the cookies at The Sandwich Hut, North Main Street. Peanut butter chocolate chip, $1.20 I believe.

                                                4 Replies
                                                1. re: foxy fairy

                                                  Not Just Snacks has great food, but absolutely zero atmosphere. Have you tried Rasoi on Hope St., right over Pawtucket line (next door to Garden Grille)? It's my favorite Indian.
                                                  Their weekend buffet is excellent. Saturdays are vegan, Sundays are regular.

                                                  1. re: Joltingjoey

                                                    Rasoi is owned by the same folks who own Kabob and Curry on Thayer. I agree with you on the buffet, Joey.

                                                    1. re: Joltingjoey

                                                      i do love the buffet at Rasoi, but for regular meals i totally prefer Not Just Snacks. The lack of atmosphere is part of what i love about it - there's zero pretension, zero mystification, just good food in a relaxed place.

                                                      the same goes for the vietnemese place in the shaw's plaza off north main (pho horn's, i believe it's called) - great food in a place that looks like it oughta be a pizza joint in new jersey. love it.

                                                      1. re: ephraim_oakes

                                                        I have been hearing great reviews on the food (not atmosphere) at the Vietnamese place, and I'm eager to check it out!

                                                        I disagree about the "zero" atmosphere at Not Just Snacks. I like the faded Bollywood movie posters! To me, that IS atmosphere, LOL! No seriously, I just like it there, and I often buy spices across the street. I haven't tried Rasoi yet - -though it's on the list.

                                                  2. My current favorites:

                                                    ENN - Excellent sushi. Relaxed atmosphere. Pleasant service. Prices aren't bad off the maki menu, and very good/reasonable wine list.

                                                    La Laiterie - . Probably the best burger I have ever had at any southern new england restaurant.

                                                    Chez Pascal - I have yet to have a bad meal there. Service sometimes can be iffy, but the food more than makes up for it.

                                                    Rasoi - best Indian food I've had to date. Service is excellent and very helpful with suggestions for the unfamiliar.

                                                    Trattatoria DiFiore- I don't go out for Italian much because I'm picky and figure why spend money when I can make it well at home. This place was recommended to me and so I went for lunch with a friend. Blew me away.

                                                    2 Replies
                                                    1. re: bookwrm

                                                      Where is trattoria DiFiore and how is the atmosphere? I haven't heard of it at all.

                                                      1. re: bookwrm

                                                        I second the La Laiterie - VERY good burger, and polenta "frites" are ingenious! New Rivers also has a delicious burger - more herby/greens (great with pesto) than the cheese/bacon La Laiterie one.


                                                      2. Best non-fancy in Providence for my money. By cuisine...

                                                        NEW AMERICAN: La Laiterie in Wayland Square (burger and polenta fries!)
                                                        runner-up: Broadway Bistro (a more limited menu, but great and unique food)
                                                        FRENCH: Chez Pascal's prix fixe menu ($30 for three outstanding courses)
                                                        MEXICAN: El Rancho Grande (the one on Plainfield Street)
                                                        MIDDLE EASTERN: Shish Kabob (555 Smithfield; no atmosphere but good food)
                                                        INDIAN: Rasoi or Kabob and Curry or Not Just Snacks (Rasoi's my favorite, but you can't go wrong with any of these)

                                                        3 Replies
                                                        1. re: RhubarbPudd

                                                          As with allieb's post yesterday, while some of these places are great, I don't know by what standard La Laiterie or Chez Pascal become "not fancy."

                                                          1. re: Gin n Tonic

                                                            Agreed. We can never, ever get out of Chez Pascal for under $200.

                                                            1. re: Gin n Tonic

                                                              La Laiterie fancy? Nah... they attract a fairly casual crowd. I've been in there in short and sneakers and never felt out of place. And you can definitely get out of there for under $50 if you try.

                                                          2. There really are so many good and unique places in Rhode Island. I've been here for almost 2 years now and I'm still trying my way around. What fun! While Chez Pascal, La Laterie, and Al Forno will probably always be at the top of our list, my fiance and I have come to adore Nick's on Broadway and would call them our absolute favorite. I'm surprised to not see it mentioned here. The food is incredible; plus, we prefer and even request sitting at the counter, so we can watch the guys do their magic.

                                                            Being from Georgia, I do miss good old southern style food. It's hard to find around here. The closest I've found is at LJ's BBQ. Spending 8 years in Chapel Hill at UNC, I'm more partial to the vinegar based pulled pork, but Bernie and Linda do a good job with their own at LJ's. Plus, their fried chicken, collard greens, and mac and cheese bring back reminders of my grandma's cooking. My fiance really enjoys their burgers. I don't think you can go wrong with anything on their menu.

                                                            As far as just fun, totally inexpensive places...I could be here all day! There are so many and I know I'll forget one or more of my favorites. While I'm not a huge fan of Thayer Street in general, I find myself craving a falafel at East Side Pockets, just fantastic food all around there. A couple doors down, you can find some of the best tacos in all of Rhode Island at Bagel Gourmet. Yes! While my fiance swears he is in heaven with one of their salt bagels, I find their mexican food simply smashing. Yummy guacamole!

                                                            Lots of great Asian food in this area. My two favorites are Angkor on Wickendon and Thai Star on Chalkstone. Both places are BYOB and entirely unpretentious.

                                                            Last, but not least, PIZZA! We love the stuff and prefer a New York style crust. Top nod goes to Nice Slice on Thayer.

                                                            Enough rambling for now! Let me know what I left out. :)

                                                            4 Replies
                                                            1. re: sophiecat

                                                              OK, just back from RI and here's our take on it. De Wolf's in Bristol was delicious, Kings Garden in Cranston was phenomenal!! Just as good, if not better than what the best of NYC Chinatown or Flushing has to offer. While the lobster was fresh and sweet at Evelyn's, pieces of lobster atop a toasted (unbuttered) hot dog roll w/a paper cup of mayo on the side do not equal a lobster roll; also portions of other offerings (including charging $2 for a minisucle dollop of coleslaw) such as calamari were stingy, fried shrimp was good however. Terribly disappointed in the Graperoom, measly lobster roll, amazingly salty chicken salad and overly, overly creamy lobster bisque (wondering if the poster on this one was related...). The Boathouse in Tiverton amazingly beautiful setting, heavy, greasy calamari and lobster sour tasting, have a drink here instead. And the Black Goose Cafe in Tiverton, free wi fi, nice people and food too!

                                                              1. re: fbsdg

                                                                Glad you found a few hits during your tour but I bet more than one NE chowhound will disagree with this assessment: "While the lobster was fresh and sweet at Evelyn's, pieces of lobster atop a toasted (unbuttered) hot dog roll w/a paper cup of mayo on the side do not equal a lobster roll"

                                                                1. re: GSM

                                                                  The quality of the lobster at Evelyn's was superior to any other we sampled. However, pieces of cooked lobster sans any type of dressing, (mayo, lemon juice, etc.) or even a bit of celery are not what makes a lobster roll. I am a New Yorker but did happen to read "Rhode Island" magazine during my visit, an issue featuring the best seafood and how to prepare it. Their "classic" lobster roll recipe calls for combing the lobster meat w/several other ingredients (I recall mayo, lemon juice and celery among them). I am sure the recipe is available online for NE's and Evelyn's as well.

                                                                  1. re: fbsdg

                                                                    To mayo or not to mayo is a long standing debate among RI lobster roll lovers.

                                                            2. For cheap good eats:
                                                              I agree Mike's kitchen in Cranston (cannelli bean/chix dish and hot calamari).... San Vivaldo in West Warwick, Broadway Bistro on Broadway in Providence, Angiamo's in Johnston (antipasto is delicious for an app) Apsara's in Providence on Elmwood Ave is also great...you can make your own nim chow (the one on hope street is also good) Wright's farm is def a different experience...I usu go with a very large group of co-workers (20 people)
                                                              I would not go to De wolf tavern, service is horrible, we waited two hours for our entree and when i complained to the manager she was not very sympathetic....i i will never go there again.....