541312 Tue Jul 22 13:58:51 -0700 2008 16 34 Wine 0 3892007 Hi - My plans are making this for dinner tonight, http://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/milk-braised-pork-tenderloin-with-spinach-and-strawberry The wine note is a Rioja... which surprised me. I thought it might be a Chardonnay - not that my feelings are hurt or anything, just surprised. I don't have a Rioja but I do have a '04 Bodegas Aalto Ribero del Duero. Think that would work as well? Would something be a better? TIA! Tue Jul 22 13:58:53 -0700 2008 90565 Cookiefiend 1 3892249 Having had the Aalto, I think it would be way too forward for the dish. The Aalto is to my taste a very modern-styled RBD, all blackberry jam and toasty, vanilla-y oak. I like it, but I think it'll overwhelm the pork. I'd go red (just b/c that's what I usually like to drink) but be looking for something softer, older, quieter - yes, an older Rioja, or a Chianti or maybe a grenache-based Chateauneuf du Pape. Are you doing the spinach & strawberry salad in the recipe too? That would seem to make for a tricky combination. Interesting that the recipe (attributed to Juan Mari and Elena Arzak) notes say it was inspired by the Rioja region of Spain. I had always thought of this as an Italian dish, which I first recall seeing in a Marcella Hazan cookbook. Tue Jul 22 15:01:08 -0700 2008 3892007 35525 Frodnesor 2 3892353 Hi Frodnesor - Yes, I'm planning on making the spinach salad too... I don't have any older Riojas, Chianti or DdP either. I do have a Brunello and a couple of Barolos and some Burgundy (though I have to confess some fear of those and complete ignorance as well). I just checked on cellartracker for Italian or Spanish - I do have an Amarone... I could just open a nice Oregon or California Pinot and relax! Tue Jul 22 15:33:07 -0700 2008 3892249 90565 Cookiefiend 2 3892583 This is a sugo, a milk-braised "stew" only made with pork tenderloin, instead of a pork roast. It's clearly Bolognese in origin, though I will check with my Spanish food historians on the Rioja claim. I find that F&W's description of the dish as being from Rioja a little odd, even though the Rioja make many stews. Bolognese milk-braised meat dishes -- sugo -- have been around forever. I'd go with a lively white or a light- to medium-body red -- either would work. The Rioja is too heavy. Either Pinot Gris, White Burgundy, Garnacha, or Pinot Noir (the mustard is a French touch, common in Burgundy, or Barbera. Anything heavier will too much for the delicacy and mildness of the pork flavor. BTW, I'm also surprised F&W chose pork *tenderloin* for a braise. It's not a braising meat. Tends to toughen when simmered. Tue Jul 22 17:02:21 -0700 2008 3892249 18222 maria lorraine 3 3892623 The link to the recipe above was not working for me though I found it here -> http://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/milk-braised-pork-tenderloin-with-spinach-and-strawberry-salad I've always seen it as "Arrosto di Maiale al Latte" and have generally seen it done with a roast of some sort, not a tenderloin (which would seem to be too lean and not a great candidate for a long braise), and definitely seems Bolognese in origin. Never associated it with Rioja and have a suspicion that F&W may have screwed up and not figured out the Arzaks were playing with an Italian dish. But I could be wrong too. Tue Jul 22 17:18:16 -0700 2008 3892583 35525 Frodnesor 4 3893143 That's my guess, too. Tue Jul 22 20:55:07 -0700 2008 3892623 18222 maria lorraine 1 3892506 Given the flavors here my first choice for red would probably be Shiraz.... matches both the essential pork and the bold mustard elements quite nicely. Otherwise quite a few reds will drink nicely with this dish including (IMO) your ribera, a rioja, a rich pinot, a valpolicella superiore, a zinfandel... But what I'd really like here would be BOTH a white and red, and my preferred white would be riesling.... Riesling and shiraz would be a lovely red/white combo here, IMO... both do very nicely with the mustard and garlic notes, both match "pork" in general quite well, and they drink nicely together...For a nice touch serve a great common cheese match for these two wines: Aged Gouda. Tue Jul 22 16:29:42 -0700 2008 3892007 42549 Chicago Mike 1 3892738 Thanks everyone! You all gave me some ideas and here's my results: The pork was cooked to about 140 degrees so it was still tender, the milk and garlic pureed together and served over the top of the meat. I probably wouldn't make the salad with this again - it didn't go quite right, you were correct Frodnesor! Based on your (everyone) input, I opened 3 bottles. 1) Jim Barry Florita Reisling - ick, ick, ick. This was supposed to be a dry Reisling, had an awful petroleum nose with a grapefruit note in the taste. I poured this glass out. 2) Goldeneye 2005 Anderson Valley Pinot Noir - very nice with the pork, just okay with the salad. Raspberry jam notes but hot (high alcohol) in the nose too. Still, as it opened, it got better. 3) Joh Jos Prum 2004 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Kabinett Reisling - when I took the foil off I thought I was in trouble (and maybe I still am and just don't know it) the cork was moldy looking and crusty. I pulled the cork anyway, cleaned the opening and poured a taste... again a petroleum nose - it was odd. It is fizzy... but tasted fine. Apricot and a bit floral like maybe orange blossom. This went well with both the pork and the salad. I thought a Rioja would be too much for this dish, but I would have never thought to try a Reisling. Or a Pinot Gris - I have a M Deiss Pinot Blanc and I thought about trying that - now I'm curious if that might have worked as well. As it turns out, I have a bit of aged Gouda... Off to try that pairing! Thank you so much for all your help! Dawn Tue Jul 22 18:05:00 -0700 2008 3892007 90565 Cookiefiend 2 3895067 The petroleum/kerosene scent in Riesling is actually fairly common and sought after by Riesling aficionados. Wed Jul 23 13:45:28 -0700 2008 3892738 86802 vanillagorilla 3 3895391 Do you yourself enjoy fusel (the wine term for this gasoline smell) in Riesling or other wines? Wed Jul 23 15:27:59 -0700 2008 3895067 18222 maria lorraine 4 3896612 Well... you didn't ask me, but I'll answer that one! :-) Yes. When it is done right (and we have no idea if this was a "bad" petrol or a "good" petrol smell) this smell can really add to a wine... you just have to want it. That is to say, if I reach for a 2005 Mosel I'm not looking for it, but if I reach for a 1983 Auslese I expect to get it. I find Riesling fascinating because good examples are good throughout their lives, but change over time. They never really shut down and I cannot fault anyone for drinking even the most expensive/best Ausleses as soon as they are released... they are DELICIOUS... but then over time they turn into something else... the sugar recedes, the fruit profile changes a bit, and this viscous petrol does develop. I love them in their varying stages of life. That said, outside of Chardonnay, it s hard for me to think of too many other wines I've experinced this smell/taste with and I think if it were to occur in a red wine it would seem out of place. Thu Jul 24 02:00:14 -0700 2008 3895391 50041 whiner 5 3896685 Hmm...is fusel a function of age? Thu Jul 24 04:00:09 -0700 2008 3896612 18222 maria lorraine 6 3896698 It certainly can be with German Riesings... I expect it with older Rieslings, in fact. Also, with some older Chardonnays, though I don't find it most of the time there. But with well made 20+ y/o non-dessert Rieslings I usually get it. Thu Jul 24 04:19:22 -0700 2008 3896685 50041 whiner 6 3897662 I think it intensifies with age and changes a little bit. In general younger Rieslings are not very likely to have a petrol smell to them. However, I find that I can sometimes detect hints of it. In the younger wines I usually smell something like kerosene or Coleman white gas. It's faint, but not unusual. Especially in Alsatian and German wines. In the more aged wines (and the oldest I've had are less than 20 years old, the aroma is more pronounced and more like diesel fuel. I have a hunch that the wines with the slight kerosene smell in their youth are the ones that turn into the heavier diesel scented wines in their old age. Unfortunately I don't have the time or cellar space to run the decade long experiment of trying to figure it out. And to answer the question, I love the petrol smell. As long as it's not overpowering. But I find that any wine with one super overpowering aroma isn't enjoyable. As long as the petrol is mixed with minerals, fruit, honey, floral notes, or other smells I love it. Thu Jul 24 10:23:32 -0700 2008 3896685 86802 vanillagorilla 7 3897973 Thanks for your responses vanillagorilla and whiner. I've noticed fusel in many young Alsatian wines while in Alsace, and in older wines as well. More than a faint whiff of it, though, and my enjoyment of the wine is diminished. However, this is not in keeping with many Alsatians who prize the quality. I asked the question about fusel and age because it seems fusel is present in the wine from the beginning -- once the grape juice is fermented into wine. IIRC, it's a flavor/aroma that is a by-product of fermentation, but I'd have to check to make sure. Fusel seems more apparent as the wine ages, perhaps because as other elements -- fruit, aromatics -- diminish with time, the fusel is more apparent. I remember one tasting with Kracher (the man himself, when he was still alive) and he poured 30 of his dessert wines. Man oh man, I was fusel-ed out! I felt like I'd been to an oil spill! Thu Jul 24 11:41:17 -0700 2008 3897662 18222 maria lorraine 8 3898036 Haha... Funny... at least in terms of what I notice, I associate it almost exclusively with older wines. I suppose if I stopped to thnk about it, maybe a little in younger Rieslings, too. But, in the past few years I've been fortunate enough to try a couple of handfuls of high quality Ausleses from the early '80s and late 70s and those wines all had the attribute much more than any young wine I've had. The 1983 Ziliken and the 1983 Dr. Loosen (I think it was the W.S.) are the two that stand out in my mind as he two best older German (non-dessert) Rieslings I've had and they both had much much more of this note than any young Riesling I've tasted. Obviously, I've not lived long enough to watch any one Riesling through its life and see how it changes, I just have to put things together from what I have tasted. (I was 3 when those Rieslings were being harvested -- those were still my Jack Daniels days.) FWIW: I've also experienced this note with some older Chards, though not as extreme or with the same frequency. Thu Jul 24 11:58:11 -0700 2008 3897973 50041 whiner 3 3900330 vanillagorilla - I had no idea! Thank you for telling me. Since I wasn't expecting it - I thought it was strange. The first wine (the Florita) was dreadful, petroleum and grapefruit is not a good combo. The Prum reisling was much, much better and the petroleum wasn't so overpowering - the apricot shone. Fri Jul 25 06:56:03 -0700 2008 3895067 90565 Cookiefiend