538744 Mon Jul 14 17:30:10 -0700 2008 31 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 3868706 To me, Mexican salsa is one of the tastiest things from the New World. HOWEVER: I genuinely HATE cilantro. Given that this HATRED is not that unusual, I have become suspicious. Question: is the use of cilantro in fresh tomato salsa traditional Mexican, or is it "Mexican-American" as 'spaghetti and gigantic meatballs' or 'deep dish pizza' is 'Italian-American'? Perhaps the use of cilantro in fresh tomato salsa is very regional? As in: in some areas, they use cilantro; in others, they use culantro; in others, they use epazote, and in others, there are NO green bits of any sort? Perhaps this is a regional affair, so that fresh salsa varies as night and day, from region to region? Mon Jul 14 17:30:12 -0700 2008 21941 jerry i h 1 3869217 A glance at the salsa recipes in Kennedy's 'Recipes from Regional Cooks of Mexico' suggests that the use of cilantro is common in fresh salsas, but not ubiquitous. Cooked salsas are less likely to use it. I didn't notice any regional pattern. None of them use epazote. The Wiki article says cilantro (corriander) is native to Europe, and was once much more widely used (and even used in the British American colonies). Culantro is native to Mexico and SA, though also popular in SE Asia. It is similar in taste (or distaste) to cilantro, but stronger. In the appendix, Kennedy says culantro is used in Tabasco and Veracruz State (and variously called perejil or cilantron). It is also popular in Caribbean cooking. So if there is difference between Mexican and Mexican-American uses, it may be that culantro is more likely to be used in Mexico (especially in the south Caribbean coast), and cilantro substituted in the US since it is easier to find (and milder). Mon Jul 14 21:40:21 -0700 2008 3868706 12139 paulj 2 3869401 ok, sorry but what is the diffrence between cilantro and cUlantro other than strength? I do know where coriandor lies (the resultant seeds) Tue Jul 15 01:33:07 -0700 2008 3869217 163722 hill food 3 3869496 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eryngium_foetidum Interesting CHOW article: http://www.chow.com/ingredients/153 I'd never heard of Vietnamese culantro. Tue Jul 15 04:57:28 -0700 2008 3869401 10985 MMRuth 4 3869530 There is also papalo or bolivian coriander (Porophyllum ruderale) which is proably what is actually being used in Mexico (as the article points out culantro is really a Carribean and Asian thing.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivian_Coriander. Hoever I must point out that, having tasted all four, Papalo, and Rau Ram, (Vietnamese Coriander) don't really taste a lot like Cilantro, To me they taste rather acrid and unpleasant. Culantro does taste a lot like cilantro but its texture is quite a bit coarser (puls you have to be careful of the thorns on the leaf edges.) Tue Jul 15 05:23:26 -0700 2008 3869496 24492 jumpingmonk 5 3869946 Actually there is true Culantro used in Mexico as well as Papalo. Tue Jul 15 08:10:37 -0700 2008 3869530 42572 Eat_Nopal 5 3872220 JM, I used to live in Bolivia and have very much been wanting to find out the name and a source for the spice which our Ketchwa maid, and in the market place was, called kilkeenya. Can this be Bolivian coriander? Sam, help? Others? Tue Jul 15 18:53:31 -0700 2008 3869530 93538 Passadumkeg 2 3870101 "I didn't notice any regional pattern. None of them use epazote." There are definitely regional patterns... as you noted the uses of Culantro in Tabasco etc., However, it depends on how you define regions... if you define a region broadly... like say The Yucatan, The Gulf of Mexico, The Central Highlands... or even Veracruz, Jalisco, Oaxaca then yes... there will be almost no regional pattern. However, by my count there are at least 200 culinary regions in Mexico that result from the intersection of Ethnicity & Climatological regions. For example, in Oaxaca alone there are 7 very distinct geographical regions seperated by mountains... they range from the cloudy, mountain scapes of the Alta Mixteca to the exuberant tropical forests of Tehuantepec... and then within a Geographical region you might have multiple ethnic groups with different foodways for example in the Costa Chica... the Zapotecs tend to like using Flat Leaf Parsley (and hate Cilantro), but the Amuzgos prefer Chepil, while the Afro-Mexican communities don't seen to use any herbs in their Salsas yet the Mestizos in Puerto Escondido (only 90 miles away) make substantial use of Cilantro... while the Mazatlecos of the surrounding communities feast on Salsa de Chicatanas (winged ants that swarm the area when the summer rainy season begins). Tue Jul 15 08:51:20 -0700 2008 3869217 42572 Eat_Nopal 2 3871834 Thanx: I had totally forgotten about Kennedy's cookbook. I was racking my brain for a good guide to regional Mexican food. Tue Jul 15 16:47:37 -0700 2008 3869217 21941 jerry i h 1 3869486 I think my earlier post got lost. In my experience in Mexico, (3-4 years, various regions) cilantro in uncooked dishes, either as an ingredient or as a garnish, is just short of ubiquitous. Salsa is so easy to whip up that if a restaurant typically includes cilantro in their salsa, a request of salsa sin cilantro should be a no-brainer and not an inconvenient request. Tue Jul 15 04:47:11 -0700 2008 3868706 57170 Veggo 1 3869954 In my experiences there are probably 20 ubiquitous styles of Salsa, and about 200 regional styles of Salsa (not including any creative Haute inventions).... just straight up recipes that have been used for centuries...... I would say that about 10% of those involve fresh Cilantro, while Coriander seeds are rarely used (there are some, but not very common). The use of Cilantro is not in any way a Mexican-American innovation. Tue Jul 15 08:15:35 -0700 2008 3868706 42572 Eat_Nopal 2 3871838 200??!!!! Oh, my. I don't suppose these things are collated somewhere in a book or website? Tue Jul 15 16:48:32 -0700 2008 3869954 21941 jerry i h 3 3872796 No.... we are talking about Mexico here... that would be way to easy. Here are some sources: > http://www.cdi.gob.mx/index.php (Government site documenting the cultural traditions - including gastronomy) of Mexico's 130+ aboriginal ethnic groups. > CONACULTA book series "Recetario de Cocina Indigena y Popular" consists of 40+ very well researched volumes (and growing) documenting the unique foodways of Indigenous groups > CONACULTA book series "Recetario de la Cocina Familiar" consists of 30+ volumes documenting regional foodways in mainstream / urban Spanish speaking Mexico. > http://www.e-local.gob.mx/wb2/ELOCAL/ELOC_Enciclopedia reports vital statistics, farming & regional gastronomy of Mexico's 2,439 Municipalities (akin to U.S. counties) spread throughout 31 States. Great introduction to the various places in Mexico.. you get to know what they grow, and some of their regional dishes.. for example you discover that some municipalities in Sinaloa grow Eggplant as its primary cash crop... you start googling for recipes in the area... and bam you have uncovered a regional specialty that no one has ever properly documented before etc., > http://www.mexicodesconocido.com.mx/interior/index.php great website dedicated to uncovering Mexico's unknown gems & unique gastronomic traditions (puts out a nice Magazine somewhat akin to the National Geographic Travel edition). > Drive the country. You really have to travel the roads, ascending mountains, descending into valleys, rising to highland plans, crossing desserts, jungles, pine forests, beaches over & over again and stop in random towns to begin seeing how Mexico's very unique geography, deep rooted traditions, and 5 centuries of immigrants result in surprisingly distinct foodways among communities that are sometimes only 25 miles apart. Tue Jul 15 23:01:59 -0700 2008 3871838 42572 Eat_Nopal 4 3874908 Thanx. Greatly appreciated. Wed Jul 16 14:26:54 -0700 2008 3872796 21941 jerry i h 4 4598333 "for example you discover that some municipalities in Sinaloa grow Eggplant as its primary cash crop... you start googling for recipes in the area... and bam you have uncovered a regional specialty that no one has ever properly documented before etc.," FYI... "Larousse de la Cocina Mexicana" has a great Sinaloa style apple stuffed Eggplant recipe that I have prepared a few times. I was wrong.. it isn't a crop grown mostly for the U.S. market that has now gained traction in local communities... apparently Eggplants have been grown, cooked & eaten in a corner of Sinaloa for 200 years. In addition, to varietals grown for the U.S. market... Creoles grown heirloom eggplants descended from Spain... and the French & Japanese immigrants to that part of Sinaloa also brought their varietals. Wed Apr 15 11:15:02 -0700 2009 3872796 42572 Eat_Nopal 5 4598351 They may have brought their varietals, but eggplant originated in the Americas. Presumably pre-Columbian Americans ate eggplant -- otherwise it wouldn't have spread to other parts of the world --although it was probably quite different from the varietals that have developed over the centuries. Wed Apr 15 11:18:56 -0700 2009 4598333 10159 Ruth Lafler 6 4598367 Really? I was under the impression that it originated in the Indian subcontinent.... and was used in Chinese cooking as early as 300 AD. Wed Apr 15 11:23:14 -0700 2009 4598351 42572 Eat_Nopal 7 4598390 Ooops! My bad. I thought all the edible members of the nightshade family originated in the Americas, but obviously I was wrong. Wed Apr 15 11:27:32 -0700 2009 4598367 10159 Ruth Lafler 1 3871864 I've eaten lots of salsa in different regions of Mexico. Most, but not all, have had cilantro as an ingredient. If you don't like it, you can certainly leave it out. That said, cilantro in salsa is definitely NOT an Americanized version of salsa. Tue Jul 15 16:54:43 -0700 2008 3868706 11995 pikawicca 2 4600122 You know, I happen to just love good cilantro (which should be peppery and delicate). But I never had it before I moved to California. Are any of you who are running into cilantro in salsas on the East Coast, or not? Never ran into it there. Wed Apr 15 21:30:25 -0700 2009 3871864 40486 Cinnamon 3 4600286 Yup, and it's a clam roll and a lobster roll. Thu Apr 16 00:15:01 -0700 2009 4600122 93538 Passadumkeg 4 4600850 That's what I've heard them called and almost said such, but I'm out here in California and if you say 'lobster roll' unfortunately many people will think you mean a rice-covered log of sushi at an Americanized sushi joint. But yeah, I should've mentioned. They are sooooo good. Thu Apr 16 07:52:20 -0700 2009 4600286 40486 Cinnamon 1 4600638 I LOOOOOOVE cilantro but know many people who hate it they claim it tastes like soap and makes them gag. Could these people actually be allergic to it? I feel like I know so many people who hate cilantro more than I hate any food imaginable. Anyway does anyone know if this cilantro hatred is actually an allergy? Thu Apr 16 06:40:12 -0700 2009 3868706 158016 cassoulady 2 4601401 Not a true allergy. May be a genetic trait but not an allergy Thu Apr 16 10:04:57 -0700 2009 4600638 89493 scubadoo97 2 4601453 The term "allergy" indicates a very specific physiological reaction (an immune system reaction to a substance) and is misused a lot by people who want to convey that they don't want to eat something, whether is actually causes an allergic reaction, a sensitivity reaction, or they just don't like it. Hating cilantro is in no way an allergy. It's a well documented fact that for a lot of people cilantro tastes like soap. The claim is that this taste variation is genetic, although there's no actual proof (that is, no one has found the "soapy cilantro" gene or identified a specific genetic condition related to this). I think it's probably a bit more accurate to say that it's caused by variation in individual physiology and body chemistry which may be more common in certain related groups. Thu Apr 16 10:17:35 -0700 2009 4600638 10159 Ruth Lafler 3 4601547 Thanks Ruth, very interesting. I have always been so confused by it, becuase nothing tastes like soap to me, except soap. I did have a friend who was a "soapy cilantro" person and I forgot about it and was serving a ceviche that had quite a bit of cilantro, so I said it was parsley. She loved it. : ) Thu Apr 16 10:42:03 -0700 2009 4601453 158016 cassoulady 4 4602033 I can taste the characteristics of Cilantro that might be interpreted as "Soapy" by some people... I think they are much more intense in Cilantro that isn't very fresh... so there may be a regional component (as its hard to find decent Cilantro in NYC when I have visited)... but I think this volatile oils are the reason most of us are addicted to Cilantro... its of course impossible to know another persons experience... so what is intriguing to us... might be unsettling to others. Of course... given how I freak out over Persimmons... which I find to be the most vile & threatening unprocessed food on the planet... I can be sympathetic to others experiences. Personally, I find Parsley to taste much more Soapy than CIlantro... but again not everything experiences the same absolute things the same way. Thu Apr 16 12:55:45 -0700 2009 4601547 42572 Eat_Nopal 5 4602976 All this may have implications for that big cilantro bergamot spectacular one of you may have been planning. Thu Apr 16 19:07:45 -0700 2009 4602033 40486 Cinnamon 5 4603132 I'm not a huge cilantro fan, unless it has really been chopped up pretty finely, or cooked. i like the flavor it gives a dish, but not the independent taste. I also find it far less noticeable if it has been cooked in a dish as opposed to raw. And yeah, it has a certain soapiness to me. Thu Apr 16 20:19:17 -0700 2009 4602033 57890 KaimukiMan 6 4603195 I haven't found any really good Cilantro in Hawaii yet... I think the soapyness here is also higher than if it was freshly cut. I don't really snack on Cilantro stalks... but if you include it in a fresh vegetable juice (stalks included) it adds a nice, intriguing complexity without the Soap. Thu Apr 16 20:40:01 -0700 2009 4603132 42572 Eat_Nopal 7 4603611 I'm an interesting case, I LOVE the taste of "True or ordinary" cilantro/green corainder (the kind that looks a bit like parsely and is normally found in stores) But to my taste buds Vietnames Corainder (aka Rau Ram) and Bolivian Coriander (Papalo) tase postively foul. Culantro (saw leaf herb) tastes like regular cilantro to me though I find its texture a little coarse, so I dont use it much (plus I'm always a little worried about what would happen if I tried to chew a leaf with that many prickles) Fri Apr 17 04:44:05 -0700 2009 4603195 24492 jumpingmonk 1 4606679 There are many, many sauces that include cilantro / culantro in the rest of Latin America beyond Mexico. And, passadumkeg, Quechua has many borrow wrods from Spanish. If there is a Quechua word for cilantro, it would probably be "chhilltu xxxxxxxx" or "plant of cilantro". Sat Apr 18 08:02:45 -0700 2009 3868706 36661 Sam Fujisaka