Price "Gouging" (moved from Austin)

[shlomoaren]

Just a little survey to see whether people think this is price "gouging" or whether there are legitimate reasons for doing such. And, how prevalent.

I have been to a restaurant downtown that allows you to pick 2 sides OR salad with your lunch. However, if you want 1 side AND salad you have to pay extra. Given that the latter seems to be a very popular choice, it seems like the restaurant is really aiming to get a couple extra dollars for each meal but doesn't want to price it that way. I can't understand or believe that the salad is more costly than a 2nd side, so to me, this practice seems a somewhat disguised manner of increasing the cost to us as consumers.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[Bill Hunt]

Were I the restaurant, and had I initiated the policy, it would be predicated on all aspects of providing the listed items. Based on that, I would keep to the guidelines established. If there were enough people, who did order one side and a salad, I'd then add that option to the menu, at a price that reflected my costs. Until such time, I have not problem with any addition, should it deviate from the stated.

Whenever I ask for any exception to a menu, I always expect to pay and clearly state this to the server. Only problem that I have is when they say, "we can't do that, because it's written on the menu." Happens too often. Still, if I deviate, I expect to pay. If it's not important to me, I do not deviate.

Sorry to not be more supportive on this issue,

Hunt

[soupkitten]

salad is more labor intensive, and there is more waste associated with it, more fluctuation in the price of produce, more storage issues, more prep, etc. it is more expensive for the restaurant to offer the salad than it is to offer mac & cheese or collards. the fact that the restaurant does offer it for the customers who prefer it is basic customer service, the fact that they charge appropriately for it is basic business.

[hannaone]

Without more information ie what are the side choices? Is the salad a salad, or just a pile of lettuce? How large are the portions of each?

From personal experience with the vegetables used in my former restaurant, lettuce can go from very cheap to quadruple the price in a weeks time and was easily the most variable of the veggies we used.

A popular choice can sometimes be priced higher in some places, but that's not always true. Usually the higher priced selections either cost more to make, or the time and effort to make them is more than for other dishes.

[miss_bennet]

I think it's a PITA charge. I do not believe that the mere ingredients of a green salad are much more expensive then mac' and cheese, coleslaw, or the side potatoes. I also don't think that salad needs to equal the same as two sides. I mean, seriously, it's called a SIDE salad. It's meant to be a side. Why can't it count as one?

Because they're labour intensive. Lining up the cucumber, getting the correct dressing, omitting the candied walnuts, hunting for a lemon... It's a PITA charge. It's not that you're asking for more food, you're asking for more effort.

There is a restaurant near my home that does this. The part that really drives me crazy is that the side salad is TINY. Smaller than some of the other "side" options, of which two equal the salad. And the salad doesn't even contain high-price ingredients like candied nuts or cheese! Realistically, though, if I'm having BBQ, I don't want salad! I want collard greens and cornbread!

[TexasToast]

TT agrees with jfood . . . unless (you didn't see that one coming did you) the salad is one of those micro herb "garnish" salads that really isn't a salad after all. In that case, it's more like half a salad (which using jfood's formula) can be coupled with another side.

TT

[Servorg]

Places out here in LA have solved this problem by putting a little pile of mixed baby greens on your plate with a splash of vinaigrette eliminating the need to give any chopped tomatoes or cucumbers or carrots and they probably save money too. You don't get a choice on the dressing. It comes one way. I get that type of "side" salad in replacement quite frequently and the restaurants never charge extra, even it the salad is a replacement for one side. This is a refreshing option and it's a tasty and healthy alternative.

[Lixer]

I believe I know the place you're talking of.

Think of not only the cost of the ingredients, but of labor. It takes 15 seconds to scoop two sides onto a plate with the entree or a second side plate. Putting together a salad: laying cucumbers on top, counting out 3 tomatoes, etc. takes a bit longer, not to mention the extra dishes to wash with the dressing cup.
Seems reasonable to me.

[smartie]

And salad is more expensive. Think about it.

[Karl S]

Correct. Greens and certain other popular salad stuffs have a higher waste factor, and thus are more expensive in practice over time.

The restaurant seems to have it right.

[jfood]

Salad = 2 sides; 1 side = 1/2 salad; 1 side + 1 salad does NOT = 1 salad or 2 sides.

Jfood does NOT agree this is anywhere close to "gouging". You are asking for 1.5 units for the price of 1.0 units, gotta pay to play.

[shlomoaren]

Maybe you missed my question (maybe not). To phrase another way: why does 1 salad = 2 sides? Why not 1 salad = 1 side? Just because the restaurant "says so." I'm not sure that's a legitimate answer. I have a hard time believing that a small amount of lettuce is twice as explensive as a small amount of cole slaw, mac 'n cheese, collards, etc.

[jfood]

Actually your question was "Thoughts?"

It is absolutely within the restaurants rights to price items as they see fit. Why does the cutomer feel it can ask the owner of a restaurant to justify the price. Where will it stop, "excuse me I did not want the candied walnuts on the salad, please give me a credit for $0.50." Pretty simple don;t want to pay, don;t order. You should check out all the threads on wine mark-ups, that will get your head spinning.

Bottom line is you were asking the restaurant to give you 50% more than the menu offers, gotta pay.

[Cheflambo]

jfood, as usual .... the voice of logic and reason.

[miss_bennet]

You're right; "[i]t is absolutely within the restaurants rights to price items as they see fit."

So why can't they make a side salad the size of a regular side? It doesn't need to be 1.5 or 2 times the size of a regular side. Why can't they just offer a small side salad?

[jes]

whether they can or they cant isnt the issue. the fact is that restaurant doesnt offer it that way and that is there right. the policy is clear, salad=2 sides. the choice is up to the diner as to what to order.

[miss_bennet]

Hmmm...

I thought the whole point of this discussion was to come up with hypotheses as to why the restaurant would have this policy. Accepting the status quo kind of defeats the purpose of this, doesn't it?

I just think that there's a side salad, a dinner salad and a half dinner salad. A side salad is, by definition, a side. I am commonly known as pedantic, though.

[dolores]

>> Accepting the status quo kind of defeats the purpose of this, doesn't it?

Ain't that the truth.

>>I just think that there's a side salad, a dinner salad and a half dinner salad.

I guess they 'could' be innovative, but why should they? If it's working well for them as is, why would they bother? Oh, wait, for customer satisfaction? Nah.

[RGC1982]

Your post reminded me of the of the team parents from several teams ago who would literally negotiate a reduced price on every ticket at the group lunches and dinners because the restaurant forgot to include a side, the gravy, the bread, etc. This woman usually got about $1 to $2 at every lunch. It was clearly an obsession for this woman, because she could have simply reminded the server of what was missing. She did it all the time, and it was always embarrassing for the diners sitting near her. Thanks for reminding me of how we often cringed when we witnessed this.

[queencru]

Typically side salads are fairly large in comparison to the actual sides themselves. You get a whole plate of salad while the other sides are typically placed on the plate with your entree. I don't see it as gouging at all.

[shlomoaren]

So, I went back and got the salad. Findings:

1) It's small- maybe a little bigger than the other sides. But given it's a salad, I'd say it's more like comparable in terms of filling you up.
2) All things considered, it might be a little more expensive on the cost/effort side, but that's probably stretching it. It's a wedge salad, the presentation wasn't fancy, the other sides require more intricate prep/cooking, the COGS are probably equivalent, I really don't know on storage, etc. Again, it is most likely a wash.
3) Dressing was tasty.

Appreciating posters who "side with the restaurant" in this discussion, never did I deny the restaurant has a right to set their pricing policy. They absolutely do. That was not the contention. The question was do restaurants who employ pricing policies that are "predatory" deserve to be called out? And my tacit point/answer was "yes." This was not an issue of asking for a $0.50 credit for walnuts. It was not an unreasonable request or complaint based on "cheapness" or the like. It was motivated by data and a pricing policy that seemed to be something other than transparent (i.e. one where at this restaurant you pay almost 20% more total for your meal to replace a nice side with a small wedge side salad where in other similar restaurants the option is offered for no additional charge).

And this last point is the kicker... other restaurants do not charge extra for providing a similar substitution.

As a diner, I have a choice to order what I like/want and ignore aspects of the menu (including price) that I do not. I also have the option to not go back, to publicize to others why I am not going back, and to offer them my experience and opinions to help potentially avoid a dining experience that they would be bothered by or find unpleasant.

In this case, I don't find it necessary to "black list" the restaurant by any means. It's a good place with good food. However, I consider this pricing practice at best (from the restaurant's perspective) odd, and I feel not only comfortable but obligated to share with fellow diners and friends considering it, that the restaurant seems to be employing some rather "creative" pricing that hurts their image and puts them in a lower tier compared to other establishments. Bottom line: if they're pricing whimsically to get every last penny from their customers, they really don't need to be employing such pettiness; if they're charging according to their cost structure, they're running a good business.

[jfood]

oy shlomo, you will find an early grave worrying about such nonsense.

Predatory pricing is where a company sells items for a lower price to drive others out of business. what we have here seems to be anti-predatory pricing. And if you're saying it is predatory on the customer, oh please.

And since when does anyone price products with exactly the same marginal profit without considering supply and demand. If people weren;t willing to pay more for the salad then noone would buy it and the resto would lower the price until supply and demand reach equilibrium. ANd add to that analysis the data point that others in the area do not do the same pricing policy. Sounds to me the value add equation at this restaurant has something good going for it over the competition.

And since when does the customer have any right to walk in and say "FREEZE, the pricing police. OK into the office and open your books."

if jfood wants blue cheese on his salad and it's $1 he would probably say yes, $10, probably no. Want a salad with the rest of the meal, gotta pay to play.

And this is absolutely no reason to blackball a resto.