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I'm a better Chowhound than you. And to prove it I am going to insult and/or mock you.


I love Chowhound. I've been reading/posting here for 4+ years and have learned a lot about cooking, eating and about places I probably would have never heard about otherwise.

I enjoy the comarradarie (I'm certain I just misspelled that), but what I do not enjoy is how some posters are intentionally condescending and insulting to others who don't share their opinions on a variety of subjects...may it be the inability to make pie crust from scratch or a fondness for a host others see as inferior.

I have no issue with disagreeing and friendly banter, but more and more (or so it seems) I am seeing posters who intentionally berate and mock other posters opinions and declare them inferior.

Am I the only one seeing this?

  1. If people are intentionally mocking or berating other posters, please use 'report' to flag that for our attention, and we'll remove it. Vehement disagreement is allowed, mocking is not.

    7 Replies
    1. re: The Chowhound Team

      I reported my first post ever this morning. I realize that it takes time for the moderaters to respond and/or remove, but it just hit a nerve.

      1. re: The Chowhound Team

        I wasn't going to say anything but I'm going to call you guys on this.

        In one thread a racial slur was used for Japanese. I flagged it and wrote you guys and your response was that you didn't think it was offensive. There was a few back and forths of disagreement. I finally had to track down the Editor in Chief and mention it and then it was removed.

        1. re: ML8000

          Everyone makes mistakes. If you are looking for 100% perfection with human beings you are bound to be disappointed. For a mostly volunteer force and the sheer amount of content put up on the site 24 hours a day, 7 days a week I think the mod's do a damn fine job.

          1. re: Servorg

            Fair enough and you're right. Still, missing something like that...I don't know. There were a few back and forths exchanges. I don't see it happening if it was a derogatory and vulgar term aimed towards someone else, like women.

            1. re: ML8000

              The issue we try to look at when it comes to situations like that is what does the intent appear to be. We ask questions like: Was it used in an angry way? Was it used as a deliberate insult? Was it aimed at a specific person? Was it used as an attempt to deliberately upset people or make them angry? Or was it used in an offhand, incidental way by someone who maybe doesn't know better, but wasn't trying to cause problems? In the first few cases, we'll remove things, but in the last case, we generally won't -- though we'll sometimes email people and ask if they'd mind an edit.

              In that case, when we asked the person who posted it if they'd mind if we edited it, they hadn't even thought about the racial implications of it. They'd just copied and pasted it from an IM sent to them by a friend. There was no intent to offend or insult anyone and they were fine with having us edit it for them.

              It's not that we felt the word in question wasn't offensive -- it obviously upset you, and we understand why. But we don't think it was meant to, which is why we wouldn't immediately remove it. Even though discerning intent seems like it must involve mind-reading, in practice, we usually find that we can get a pretty good idea whether something was meant to offend, or did so only accidentally, and we try to make allowances for the latter.

          2. re: ML8000

            Most hounds strive to be as culturally sensitive as we are food sensitive. We don't know what we don't know; we will achieve ambassador-level smoothness the week we die. Remember, it's a journey, and innocent people, even moderators, constantly try to improve themselves, every day of it. There's simply so much to be learned in a lifetime....

            1. re: Veggo

              Jacquilynne, I take no pride in my many hundreds of deletions, but not a one of them had to do with cultural offense or ignorance.
              I embrace Bobby Jones' comment in 1928 after reporters heaped praise on him for declaring a penalty stroke on himself, which nobody else noticed.
              "You might as well praise a man for not robbing a bank." Good words for all to live by.

        2. I am definitely seeing a change in the tone of chowhound. It's becoming more aggressive and reminds me of the feeling I sometimes get when I''m spending time with my large, loud-mouthed and opinionated family. Except I love my family. There are posters who I just won't read anymore because I think they are deliberately trying to start something.

          4 Replies
          1. re: southernitalian

            I actually find that some of the more irritating posters can sometimes be full of great information. So I do read what they have to say. I don't want to miss out on learning something. Most of the people here are great. While some may be annoying, I can deal with them. There's only one poster on these boards that's on my "list" that I refuse to engage in any conversation, even when he tries to.

            1. re: Miss Needle

              this is exactly why i prefer less moderation, to more, in general.

              1. re: thew

                Wow! There must be a lot of threads I don't read because I rarely see insulting or condescending posts. I see posts by people with whom I don't agree and who sometimes are self-righteous, but I have not noticed many that I found so outrageous they should have been removed.

                Maybe it's because I usually read the Home Cooking messages and the SF Bay Area general thread. Well, that's not really true as I check out the Site Talk and Media boards regularly, too.

                All in all, I think we're a pretty mellow bunch.

                1. re: thew

                  It's always a question of balance. If one knowledgeable but trollish poster bullies or annoys away 3 equally knowledgeable posters, it's a net loss. Perhaps I'm naive and like to think that on average most people are nice and friendly. If that's true, then we may be losing the nice knowledgeable majority because of the trollish bullying but knowledgeable miniority.

            2. Janet, you are not alone. Sometimes these posters haven't reached the threshold where they can be deleted. I've said this before, but I call them a demi-troll. They really are annoying, and choose to deal with their issues by criticizing other posters. I try to just not pay any attention to them as I don't want add fuel to their fire.

              1. Janet from Richmond, I am a newer poster (less than one year), so I can't comment if there has been a change in the last few years. But I had an interesting experience. I recently read an old thread on chopsticks that had been revived (from several years ago). When I read the old posts, I was shocked by the tone of many (not all) of the older posts, and surprised by the racist tones of the original post and some of the responses. I also found some of the old posts condescending and insulting in many ways. The newer posts on that thread (the ones from this year) are much gentler in tone, and much less insulting. Now this is based on a sample size of one thread, so I'm not saying that my impressions are necessarily true. But I recall seeing that thread and thinking, wow, this board must have been a lot crazier back then. Maybe moderation isn't such a bad thing...

                Someone mentioned on another thread that people tend to notice the negative much more than the positive. I think when we see a condescending, insulting post, we notice it much more than all the informative, engaging posts. The annoying posts make much more noise and fire us up emotionally. I'm hoping that is what is happening. I also get very irate by the odd poster with Alpha dog syndrome ( and in this case, I am not referring to the Alpha hound Jim Leff, founder of CH and promoter of all things delicious, who amongst his many strengths can claim the art of writing a well-worded, thought provoking post devoid of obnoxiousness. I am referring to the Alpha dog wannabees, the ones who write the intentionally condescending posts). But then I try to think of all the great, helpful, generous posts, and try my best to forget the obnoxious one. Sometimes, I fail, and I respond in kind to the obnoxious post, and I get deleted. Stuff happens, right?

                8 Replies
                1. re: moh

                  I agree. Once in awhile I get sucked into the controversy, somebody pushes my buttons, and I make a post that I really shouldn't. And get deleted. I was so ashamed the first time this happened - I wanted to write the mods and tell them that I'm really a nice person, I just got overexcited. LOL! I too find the great majority of the posts helpful and positive. And those few posters who I know can annoy me I just ignore. A very, very small minority, to be sure.

                  I've been here less than a year, but am very glad that I stumbled in one day!

                  1. re: Catskillgirl

                    I think this is an interesting point, and one I want to comment on. This sort of thing happens to everyone, eventually. I think the first time The Chowhound Team took any real notice of me -- long before I was a member of the Team, or the Community Manager for Chowhound, when I was a poster like any other -- was when I wrote in to let them know I'd stupidly made an irate post because a couple of people on the Toronto board had irritated me. They didn't hold it against me, in fact, it made them respect me more because I let them know about it myself.

                    If you've let loose with a bit of snark, because you just couldn't help yourself, we understand that. We've absolutely all been there. We'd really appreciate it if, when you realize a few minutes later that it was probably snarkier than it needed to be, you'd use 'report' to flag it for us -- otherwise it'll take a lot longer for us to find it -- but we're not going to think bad thoughts about you for giving into the temptation very occasionally.

                    People who give in to that temptation every time are a problem -- they help create the hostile atmosphere that creates more situations like this -- but please don't feel stressed if it happens every once in awhile.

                    -- Jacquilynne, Community Manager for Chowhound

                    1. re: Jacquilynne

                      Jacquilynne, does this mean you're giving me one more hall pass, or have I exhausted my allotment? :)

                      1. re: Veggo

                        Go sit in the corner and stop acting up! I hope you wet your pants...

                        1. re: Scargod

                          I think I just did gotta run now

                      2. re: Jacquilynne

                        Aaah, I never thought to report myself! Will do.

                    2. re: moh

                      Just a clarification... as a long time poster of 8 years or so, I can tell you that CH has always been heavily moderated. In fact during the old days when people would complain about the heavy handed moderators, sometimes Jim Leff would reply "you should see what these boards look like when we don't moderate even for a few hours". Apparently they were constantly fighting off mega hoards of spam, in addition to trolling posters.

                      Mr Taster

                      1. re: Mr Taster

                        Also a long time poster---though not as long as Mr Taster--and I would agree. There has always been much moderation.

                        That said, I also agree with Stephanieh---I don't like it when a visitor asks about places in a city, a suggestion is made and then the response is disparaged by other people. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no one deserves snarky comments.

                        and now I'm going to trace back all my posts to make sure I'm not guilty of what I've described..........................

                    3. I've noticed it too. The tone sometimes is definitely hostile around here. I've read some threads that went beyond banter and I could actually feel my blood pressure rise. I might be interested in the subject matter, but won't read the rest of the thread when it starts going hateful.

                      What makes me saddest is when someone posts that they're visiting my city and would like recommendations, then get blasted for wanting to visit someplace that's been hyped a lot that CHs don't feel is "worthy". It makes us look so unwelcoming. I wish we could nicely steer people away from a "tourist trap" or some place we know is resting on it's laurels without attacking the innocent person who is wanting a pleasant trip to our city.

                      1. ... especially if you are a vegetarian seeking new ways to use Boca burgers.

                        1. Janet,

                          I’m new also and noticed it right away too. I have refrained for posting on many threads because of it. I’ve also questioned whether I even want to be a member of this community on several occasions. However, I’m giving the site a long chance because of the good posts.

                          Several areas come right to mind but I am sure there are others.

                          1) Someone gives a bad review of a clear board favorite. It doesn’t take much time to get the feel of what these places are. The wolves seem to come out with fangs a blaring. I’ve seen it get personal and nasty. Not every restaurant is for everyone. I love a great disagreement and hearing a great experienced based debate on a place, but it never goes without some personal zingers and a condescending prose.

                          2) The Food Network bashing. My goodness. It seems this is something of a rite of passage to be a member of the community. However, what strikes me funny, for all the bashing, everyone seems to be watching a lot! Enough to cite quotes from hosts and provide detailed analysis of episodes. Yet still claiming their distain for the whole lot of the network. Shows that are well received and liked are commented on apologetically as if not to lose ones stripes in the community.

                          3) The bad host, bad friend, party faux pas threads. Some of these threads are just unbelievable to read. It leads me to believe these are neither comments about real friends, real family, or even real people. I’ve seen it go so far that it’s actually been recommended to disown or disassociate with friends, family, and even a significant other. Man, that is a tough crowd.

                          These just came to my mind almost immediately. If it comes off that way for me, and it sounds like you, it’s coming off that way to a lot of others as well. So far the good is enough to keep me.

                          I think the good is also as sharp, poignant, passionate and relevant. Perhaps this is a community of the extremes. There’s nothing bad about that. Maybe it’s adapting, I’m not sure. I’m in my 40’s and I came her for serious talk and learning about better restaurants, better cooking, better food everything.

                          6 Replies
                          1. re: JackieChiles

                            I've learned over the years to just ignore (2) and (3). Every once in a while I get lured into (3) and often regret it! Great point in (2) - "However, what strikes me funny, for all the bashing, everyone seems to be watching a lot!". See Caroline1's point on a recent thread about many posters seeming to have purchased TVs with only one channel. I got a good chuckle over that.

                            To me, the issue raised in (1) is, at the end of the day, the more important one. I try to just ignore the wolves, and if they seem to have crossed the line, I use the report function so that the mods can take a look.

                            This is a wonderful resource for me. And, if you like to cook, come on over to the Home Cooking board - it tends to be particularly hospitable!

                            1. re: MMRuth

                              Yes MMRuth, I do the same for 2 & 3, but I would like to add my comments sometimes, but just don't because of the tone. Maybe I just have to get in there add a pleasant comment and don't care if I'm whacked! LOL

                              I agree that 1 is all important and that is why I stay. And probably will stay. I also have commented on the Home Cooking board and agree the tone there is friendly and helpful.

                            2. re: JackieChiles

                              Yep - (1) can be a big problem. People need to understand that a criticism of a place they like is not a criticism of them. Chowhound is a useful resource not because of a single conclusion from highly processed information. Rather it is a great depository of raw data, where we can all interpret and benefit from, based on our own tastes. If someone says a place I liked is horrible, I try to ask them what they prefer, so that I'll have a better place to eat at. See this thread: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/508739 for a discussion of this problem.

                              re: (2) and (3) I think one of the nicest things was having separate Food Media and a Not About Food boards, where people discussed those topics. I didn't have to read them, and could better focus on finding something good to eat. I never watched Food Network anyway, and so I never had a clue about what those people were talking about when they were bashing it.

                              For every trolly, arrogant poster, there's someone chowy, friendly and just damn interested in eating deliciously and finding great chow -- interact with them instead.

                              1. re: limster

                                Wow, that was a great discussion, hitting on a lot of points I would have liked to have said, plus doing it way better than I could have. Maybe I was not a member in April, but I didn't see that thread. There's probably a very lot I've missed in however long this site has been in existence, too bad for me!

                                I can tell you I went looking for a serious site about food and I think this is it. As a community, I like to think I can participate in all areas of it and still feel I belong instead of feeling like "well, his profile number is 194,335, so what does he know." Just because someone is new to a site does not mean they are new to the subject matter and concept. I mean, I've been eating for 40 years. And I've eaten at a lot of restaurants mentioned in my area. I've been watching TV for 30 and watch the same shows mentioned a lot here. I've tried to better my cooking, my shopping for ingredients, the whole works. This is the only site where I've actually had the fear of participating - taking the wait and see attitude- before materially jumping in. Maybe that's a positive thing however. Maybe old age has made me cautious and thin skinned! LOL. I'm not making any foregone conclusions yet.

                                Lots of friendly and helpful people here, I agree. I've encounter them as well.

                                1. re: JackieChiles

                                  " This is the only site where I've actually had the fear of participating - taking the wait and see attitude- before materially jumping in. Maybe that's a positive thing however. Maybe old age has made me cautious and thin skinned!"

                                  JackieChiles, I hope you continue to jump in, and I hope you overcome your fear of participating. I too had similar fears when I started posting, but I quickly realized - hey, it's a big world out there, not everyone has to like me, and the big meanies who post mean replies are probably people I don't want to know anyway. I don't need to win their approval, and I'm not going to let their meanness get in the way of me having fun! And this site is fun, and gets even more fun as you get to know the community. There are many wonderful people posting on this site, I have learnt so much, and met some really great souls along the way. It makes the odd alpha dog wannabee much more tolerable. Good eating! Hope to see you around the boards!

                              2. re: JackieChiles

                                Re #2: it is amazing, isn't it? The same people who supposedly detest the FN seem to be able to recall every detail of the shows/hosts they profess to hate. Basically, whenever I see a thread about the FN, I know exactly the people who will participate in bashing it (or sometimes starting the thread). Makes me wonder if these people work for a rival network or something.

                                The best is when you point out to these people, hey, for someone who hates the network, you sure seem to watch a lot of it. Then watch the excuses fly!

                                On the NYC board, one of my pet peeves is whenever someone asks about recommendations for Little Italy, then gets a bunch of "Don't bother, it sucks," etc. Someone asked for a recommendation--so give it. Otherwise, say nothing. I'm a native New Yorker, and I know Little Italy's rep. But let's face it, a lot of people come to NY and visit Little Italy and Times Square, and they want the total experience. Not everyone can afford or want the Babbo experience.

                              3. I haven't been around all that long . . . a year or more, but I really got tired of recommending a restaurant I really enjoyed and getting slapped down by folks that mocked the very things I liked about it. I may not be the world traveled food enthusiast as some others are, but I do have an opinions and I eat more than mac&cheese with chicken nuggets. I don't mind if you disagree, but you don't need to be disagreeable about it.

                                I also resent the posts that let me know I have no taste because I don't like such and such, or give me a superior attitude. I try to let it go, but there was one time that I did blast back, in the nicest way possible ;-), letting the poster know that I did not just fall off the turnip truck!

                                12 Replies
                                1. re: danhole

                                  Mrs Hole, please stick in there. I (and I'm sure most others) really enjoy and appreciate your posts. Ignore the few jackasses.

                                  "Fall off the turnup truck"! Hilarious!

                                  1. re: Sam Fujisaka

                                    Thanks Sam, that means a lot. I am getting a thicker skin than I had. Just he other day I felt insulted, in a very roundabout passive aggressive way, and I wanted to add a retort, but went "c'est la vie" and moved on. There are too many good folks, like you, to blow it off.

                                    1. re: danhole

                                      I have read and enjoyed many of your posts. I've found them to be very helpful. You have a wonderful way with words. Please do not be put off by the occasional thoughtless Poster. :-}

                                      1. re: Tay

                                        Aw, shucks! Thanks a lot Tay!

                                      2. re: danhole

                                        "I do have an opinions and I eat more than mac&cheese with chicken nuggets. "

                                        Would there be ketchup??


                                        1. re: Davwud

                                          Ketchup? Do you want it homemade or store bought? Lol!

                                          1. re: danhole

                                            Mmmm, homemade ketchup--care to share a recipe?

                                            1. re: alanbarnes

                                              Alan, I can't find it :-( I got it out of an Adelle Davis book back in the late 70's. Remember her? One of the original watchdogs warning us about what we were REALLY eating (chemicals) and instructing us on how to live better, healthier lives. Scared the beejeebers out of a young mommy who gave up on a lot of foods from the store. Made my own baby food, BBQ sauce, ketchup, fruit juices and no more white food!

                                    2. re: danhole

                                      "I do have an opinions and I eat more than mac&cheese with chicken nuggets. "
                                      and even if you didn't, some of us would still love you :)

                                      1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                        Thanks GHG! Now I can relax, and post away. You are all so great!

                                        1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                          OOOh! Mac and Cheese WITH Chicken Nuggets! Crunchy AND creamy!

                                          Got to try it....one learns so many things on Chowhound!

                                      2. Bully pulpits...posters who need to speak for every regular on a CH Board to reinforce their own personal p.o.v. about a dining experience or hot thread. Call it speaking for the crowd...but the crowd never weighs in. This rubs my hide.

                                        If you have a good/bad experience at a restaurant and take the time to post a review for the benefit of others--thank you-- and don't let the bully pulpit throw you.

                                        1 Reply
                                        1. re: HillJ

                                          I agree completely. I don't recall any hesitation on my part to dive in, so to speak (but it's been awhile), but I would encourage all posters to post with courage and conviction, regardless of what "regulars" post, or what seems to be an overwhelming POV. The more points of view, the better, in my opinion.

                                        2. jfood has been in fair share of cat fights (oops, dog fights) on some of the threads and the Mods have stepped in on occassion. And he has taken a few uppercuts and jabs for his less than stellar reviews on some of the Boards darlings as well. but jfoods thinks that people have emotions when it comes to food and restaurants and the boards reflect some of these.

                                          On the non-food boards jfood has seen an increase on what he would call the entitled bucket, some would characterize it as the condenscending mentality. Someone has to really do something wrong to be called a bad host, whether at home or at a catered event. And taking exception to what is served at a party is just silly. You can almost see the palm print in jfood's forehead from his slapping himself and shaking his head. So yes he agrees that the level of relaxing with people over food versus every meal being a competitive event.

                                          He was nervous reading the Drive-in thread thinking it would be morehow dare they put that on MY TV, because jfood saw it for the first time and liked it. But he saw a mixed bag of reviews.

                                          But most of those posters who have joined and throw oil on the fire are usually shortlived, thankfully.

                                          So choose the ones you like, ignore the wants that are jerks and learn to enjoy both eople and food. It's sorta like the lady behind me on the way to work this morning. She tailgated me (and jfood is already 10mph over the speed limit) all the way to the highway, then blew by me on the entrance ramp. We both got off at the same exit (only 3), waited at the stop light and almost entered the building parking lot together. She blew through the lot and by the time she raced to a spot jfood was able to get his spot, walk to the building and then hold the elevator door open for her as she ran. She was hot and bothered and jfood was in a even state and they both arrived at the same time.

                                          2 Replies
                                          1. re: jfood

                                            I'm not sure what you mean by "entitled", but I think we're on the same track. I think part of the problem is that there are a lot of people who are judgmental of others and post their prejudicial views with the expectation that all and sundry will agree with them as fellow foodies who feel they know the finer things in life better than the non-foodie rabble. Things like turning one's nose up at hostess gifts of a particular stripe or saying they have no respect for people who aren't adventurous eaters is bound to bring some dissenting views which then lead to umbrage on the part of the original poster and those who agree with him or her.

                                            In general, opinionated posts are going to likely bring about opinionated replies which are then likely to devolve into varying levels of ugliness. There's really no way around this aside from putting the kibosh on threads which are little more than noses being looked down and asking for agreement with that attitude from other posters.

                                            1. re: Orchid64

                                              I have a few antagonists who come after me with both barrels for the simple crime of passing along facts and news that I think would be of interest to a fair quantity of readers. I no longer report them; I'd rather some hounders get to see them for the hostile morons they seem to be, for a little longer.
                                              It's too bad there's not a feature on our tool bar that could turn their noses upside down so when they sneeze they will blow their hat off and then when it rains they'll drown :)

                                          2. No you aren't. I've noticed it a lot on the Home Cooking board when people ask for suggestions on how to cook something that they have already purchased and people respond "throw it away". If you can't answer the question asked then why are you even responding? And since when is wasting food a good suggest? I prefer it when someone says "This is what you can do, but next time try..."

                                            I do find the etiquette and hosting threads funny. There is rarely a consensus and people get so far of course sometimes with hypothetical and misinterpretations (I admit I do to). What I've found useful is just reading the posts of those I admire (or find humorous) on the site and ignoring those who I find insulting and unnecessarily argumentative.

                                            Some people on this site remind me of a friend in high school. We were doing a mock Senate and after he had completely been out debated without an argument left shouted to his opponent"Sit down Ray you're fat!"

                                            4 Replies
                                            1. re: viperlush

                                              Gosh, I know I'm partial to the Home Cooking board, but other than people asking whether some food product is "still good" (meaning safe to eat), I really don't recall people suggesting that another poster throw out food. But, if so, I agree that your suggested language is nicer than what you've read. It's funny, because I think of Home Cooking as being this wonderful haven from snarkiness!

                                              1. re: MMRuth

                                                I don't want to call out specific posters, but I've seen it in response to questions about prepared foods and certain cuts of beef. But your right, the Home Cooking board is a "wonderful haven from snarkiness" compared to the General and Not about Food boards and is definitely the board that I have learned the most from.

                                              2. re: viperlush

                                                "Sit down Ray you're fat"
                                                That is a perfect analogy!

                                                1. re: viperlush

                                                  viperlush: I read and participate in the Home Cooking back and forth more than any other on CH. I haven't noticed the "throw it away" posters, but then I don't read everything. I've always found Home Cooking to be a warm and friendly place to post. Unless, of course, you've EVER eaten at McDonalds....then you deserve to be sent to Devil's Island for the rest of your days, you fiend!

                                                  Oh, I just noticed MMR's post above and agree with everything she says.

                                                2. In my experience, nasty stuff quickly gets removed.

                                                  1. J from R, I don't agree, although I know what you mean.

                                                    I agree with moh's interpretation of the revived chopsticks thread in that the four year old posts were possibly much nastier, even racist, compared to the recent posts.

                                                    I enjoy the different personalities that emerge; and the arguments that do get a bit heated. Some posters are so sweet they make me want to cry; others have such a wealth of experience (even if some of those experiences have to do with crappy relatives); and there is only one current poster who I think I dislike. There are several who initially irritated me, but who I now really enjoy. And I very much miss several of us who have gone away.

                                                    There are topics that deserve passion and do slide towards the occasional insult at times--topics such as food safety, food waste, authenticity of certain ethnic foods, "real" BBQ, tipping, chains, FN, and host-guest relationships. But, its like spicy food--some like it, others don't.

                                                    The moderators do a good job--sometimes too much so. I like it when personalities shine through--other than when they scare off the other pesonalities I've grown to know and appreciate.

                                                    21 Replies
                                                    1. re: Sam Fujisaka

                                                      On the other hand, I did just get some strong feedback for saying something about foods from different countries. Such things happen now and then, and provide interesting challenges as to how to respond.

                                                      1. re: Sam Fujisaka

                                                        Sam, I saw that thread you're referring to. While it was definitely a bit on the strong side, I still think it was phrased respectfully, and don't think it is what Janet of Reno is referring to. While these type of posts have rightfully been deleted, I've seen posters viciously condemn other posters because they like a certain restaurant, subscribe to a certain belief, etc. It's like some of the posters have reverted to the age of seven with all this bickering and name-calling.

                                                        1. re: Miss Needle

                                                          Needle, they were good points honestly made and tried to respond in kind. Just surprised me a bit that late at night. I certainly don't want such posts or even much strtonger deleted--I really enjoy the full texture of the different hounds. I clearly didn't see the vicious post that J of R responded to. Now and then I see one of those and I'm astonished ("Hey, what planet did this person come from?").

                                                          1. re: Miss Needle

                                                            I read this and got very confused. After all, I haven't posted before on this thread. So why was my name invoked by Miss Needle? Then I realized..OH, Sam abbreviated the OPs name to J of R.....I guess I should consider the fact that Miss Needle thought of me as a compliment...but have to interject here to give credit where credit is due.

                                                            Actually, yesterday I reported a poster for the first time in a long time, other J of R. Normally I let nasty things pass, especially since I'm guilty of jumping in to defend my favorite restaurants (human nature, sorry). But when a poster essentially called another stupid I figured something had to be said......

                                                            1. re: janetofreno

                                                              My fault. I said "j of r" rather than the intended "j from r".

                                                        2. re: Sam Fujisaka

                                                          "...and there is only one current poster who I think I dislike." Sam Fujisaka

                                                          LOL! Okay, everybody who's thinking, 'My god, I wonder if it's me?" raise your hand!

                                                          1. re: Caroline1

                                                            Okay, jfood did think it was him, and if it is he would be horribly upset bacause SF is one of jfood favorite reads (although they do not share the same timeline for food disposal. :-))

                                                            1. re: jfood

                                                              C1 and jfood, worry not; it's me. Sam and I go at it like a good, old fashioned Guadarajara cockfight on a regular basis on e-mail. At last count, he's ahead 21 to 4, with 3 draws. I'm tired of hearing "el gallo de Cali gana otra vez".

                                                              1. re: Veggo

                                                                Por que no? It's only match sticks! Nobody gets hurt...

                                                              2. re: jfood

                                                                I really enjoy our food disposal timeline discussions. You and I probably bracket 99% of the other hounds as exteme cases. I don't even mind when the moderators delete me when I get on a high horse about food waste. I hope our sideline discussions have contributed to general Hound thinking regarding food safety vs food waste. And I do think about how much fun it would be to have the jfoods over for dinner--for example, last night I made up some pasta and sauced it with (among others) reconstituted five year old dried mushrooms from Italy, some five year old Pec Romano (that has to be shaved with a chainsaw), and finally topped with some caviar about three years past expiry date. Delicious!

                                                                1. re: Sam Fujisaka

                                                                  some of the "extreme case" hounds are my favorite posters. i very much enjoy both Jfood's and Sam's posts--even if i find myself disagreeing, the posts and pov are always thoughtful and piquing. though i may not make a 180 on any issue, it's always food for thought.

                                                                  i'm probably one of the posters that many others may find abrasive. a lot of that has to do with the way i typically express myself, but i actually don't think i actively *dislike* anyone on the boards. there are folks who may drive me up a wall occasionally, but it's always stimulating! :) i've noticed that even when there is someone who *should* be my polar opposite, whom i disagree with 98% of the time, there eventually is something we agree on. it's very cool when you figure out what that is. everyone here is passionate about food, so everyone's opinion is respectable as far as i'm concerned.

                                                                  i actually think i've become more polite than when i first started posting on chowhound, more open to vastly diverse perspectives. i don't want all chowhounds to agree at all times. different perspectives are what keeps it interesting, and so what if there is an occasional spat, we're all friends here, right? i mean would we all *not* have a ball talking about food if we wound up at the same communal table at a nepalese diner, a paris bistro, or a bar in west texas? yup, probably will never happen, but i count myself privileged and lucky to get to "talk" about food w everybody at this great cyber-table in the meantime.

                                                                  not to say there haven't been strong-worded discussions i haven't regretted. i once badly went off on another poster, and i think i pretty much completely misinterpreted what that person was saying. :( sucks but hey, we're "talking" respectfully again now, no grudges appear to be held. i think people need to know they'll have disagreements on a certain subject, then let it go during other discussions. despite my at-times strident style i can be thin-skinned at times and i've taken some posts too personally in the past, i'm getting better though. chances are that nobody really intends to be as mean as they may come off in the imperfect expression of a board post. these days i try to establish what *exactly* someone means before i react too strongly. & so what, if i can talk at length about something food-related that i'm familiar with-- there will always be someone else who knows more about a different subject, & i can learn from their posts about that.

                                                                  Janet's original post: i agree strongly with the camaraderie aspect, & hope camaraderie doesn't go too far into cliquishness. guess i don't know about the insulting/condescension issue. for one thing i haven't really been around for too long, for another thing i try to ignore it when it's directed *at* me, and when it's *by* me i think it tends to be mod-ed out in a timely fashion, before i can step back & see what a jerk i am being, & attempt to rephrase in a new post. maybe the worst of it is on boards i don't hang out on, who knows. :)

                                                                  i think the mods try to do a good job of weeding out the least constructive posts, & the hounds do a good job of generally trying to be civil, it's really quite good overall i think. i don't have a good handle on "how it is now" as opposed to "how it was then" though, so i'm reading the posts from the senior-to-me hounds for that info.

                                                                  1. re: soupkitten

                                                                    kitten, i couldn't have said any of that better myself. i, too, have been known to rub other hounds the wrong way with comments that should have been phrased a different way...and when called out for it, i always try to explain my pov or intention so that you'll all know my desire is *never* to offend. of course, there have also been instances where i have made completely innocent comments and been attacked in a rude or condescending way - typically by someone new who jumped into the conversation - for merely voicing my opinion. the first couple of times i pushed back...but after that, i learned just to ignore them. if the mods choose to delete the offensive posts, all the better. in the meantime, i'd rather not waste any more energy defending myself against unwarranted attacks when i could be participating in more constructive discussions instead.

                                                                    and in the future, if i make a statement that one of you deems rude, condescending, or inappropriate, PLEASE call me out on it so i can make it right!


                                                                    1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                                                      soup and goodhealth
                                                                      I may not always agree with your points of view (Although I usually do) but I always look forward to your posts. You both express your thoughts in a very informative, entertaining and sometimes, impassioned manner. I think that is great! As someone who frequently get deleted, I can appreciate how some Posts evoke a strong response. I think you two are an intergral part of a respected group of regular contributors.and I think you enrich the site.

                                                                      1. re: Tay

                                                                        it's a good thing getting deleted is not a crime since everyone on this thread admits to muliple violations and have confessed, almost proudly, to these badges of honor.

                                                                        Remember the fifth amendment

                                                                        1. re: Tay

                                                                          wait, when did i say something you didn't agree with? ugh. some people...


                                                                          thanks, tay - i appreciate the sentiment very much.

                                                                          1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                                                            "i appreciate the sentiment very much"

                                                                            I didn't say anything that wasn't well deserved.
                                                                            (Please remember that the next time I disagree with one of your postings :-})

                                                                        2. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                                                          Soupkitten and GHG, I've really enjoyed reading your posts. I can perhaps see why you may rub some hounds the wrong way. Personally, I don't feel that way. But my views may be colored by the fact that I agree with you guys most of the time. ; )

                                                                          Seriously, I think there's a way to post your views in a thoughtful manner without antagonizing others. I think there's two types of sarcasm. One is the funny, lighter-hearted "Family Guy" style, and the other is a mean-spirited "I'm an angry person so I'll just pick on someone" style. And both of you are what I call "Family Guy" posters. Tay summed it up very well.

                                                                          And this comment isn't just targeted at soupkitten and GHG. I like zany, sarcastic posts as long as it's not mean-spirited. Chowhound is supposed to be fun and informative. Some posters don't realize that they sound like they have a major chip on their shoulders.

                                                                          1. re: Miss Needle

                                                                            this is turning into a lovefest!

                                                                            i do love you guys...even when i'm disagreeing with you :)

                                                                            1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                                                              I think we need to stand in a circle and sing Kumbaya before each new thread starts, so there won't be any snarkiness. I confess that sometimes, that's why I'm reading threads that aren't really about something I'm looking for.There is an entertainment value. As long as tongues are firm in cheek, I don't really have a problem with it. Truthfully, there are very few posters that are rude or cruel. Most of the ***** tposts are from those caught up in the discussion. Food is a hot button issue with many if not most of us CHers, otherwise we wouldn't bother.

                                                                      2. re: Sam Fujisaka

                                                                        sounds divine. and jfood would have enjoyed the meal and the great conversation. And fish eggs are slimy from the get go so he probably would not have minded.

                                                                  2. re: Sam Fujisaka

                                                                    I'm more of the opposite in terms of preferring less personality these days. Partly because I still prefer a certain sense of privacy (perhaps futile in the internet age but nonetheless), I usually just stick to describing the food, although incidental aspects do surface in terms of my preferences and places I eat at. Ultimately, I prefer it when the food speaks louder than the eater, but either way, I'm grateful for whatever chowy information posters have to share.

                                                                  3. I hear what you're saying, Janet, and it can get frustrating. Especially when I'm in a mood that's not particularly frustration-tolerant. But...

                                                                    Human nature being the pain that human nature is, we have all kinds of motivation at work on these boards. There are some who feel challenged and pound their chests if anyone presumes to know anything about a field they believe they are the ultimate expert in. Boy, will they attack you if you stray into their fied of expertise! There are some here who don't read very well, then attack you for things you didn't say (this one drives me nuts!). And then there are always people here somewhere who are "displaceing and venting." They're displacing a lot of frustration in their lives by tagging it onto something else (often a TV personality), then bitching their heads off on these boards. I've often wished there was some way to gather statistics on whether this is a useful and productive method of handling the real frustrations in their daily lives. If it is, I think I'll open up a subscription board, call it "YouBitch," and in no time at all I'll make Google and YouTube look like small time stuff! Move over, Bill Gates, my cash train is coming through!

                                                                    Truth is when and if you're the target of any of the meanness that occasionally occurs on these boards (and I say this from experience), it can make you wince. My best advice is go ahead and take a pot shot back at whoever is picking on you. Sooner or later the ChowCops will come along and delete your response, thereby leaving your pristine reputation intact with most readers. Sometimes shooting back just feels too good to resist! Thanks, ChowCops! For services rendered. '-)

                                                                    8 Replies
                                                                    1. re: Caroline1

                                                                      When I can't resist taking a shot at someone, I'll often go ahead and report my own post.

                                                                      1. re: JonParker

                                                                        Yes, I agree (and have done so). But I'll add, if everyone took Caroline's advice and waited for the moderators to come up and clean up the messes they created, these boards would REALLY go downhill fast. And it's completely unfair to the moderators. This community stays civil primarily because we, the users, manage to exercise self-restraint. It shouldn't be the job of the moderators to nanny us into acting like civilized members of this tiny society.

                                                                        1. re: Chris VR

                                                                          I agree with you in theory, but I have difficulty with the thought that there are that many repressed souls on these boards just waiting for my permission to return fire. '-)

                                                                      2. re: Caroline1

                                                                        "My best advice is go ahead and take a pot shot back at whoever is picking on you. Sooner or later the ChowCops will come along and delete your response, thereby leaving your pristine reputation intact with most readers. Sometimes shooting back just feels too good to resist!"
                                                                        Apparently, long ago and far away you must have telepathically communicated this sage advice to me before you posted it here b/c I do it all the time...And get deleted all the time lol! You're so right: Just writing it is often cathartic. :-}

                                                                        1. re: Tay

                                                                          Some times you just gotta do what you gotta do. There are times when I find it frustrating that I get deleted, but not the joker I'm responding to. But all in all, come next Valentine's Day, I think I owe ChowCops a big bouquet and a box of candy for services rendered! Hey ChowCops, even if I don't have a shipping address, you know I'm thinking about you! '-)

                                                                          1. re: Tay

                                                                            "My best advice is go ahead and take a pot shot back at whoever is picking on you. Sooner or later the ChowCops will come along and delete your response, thereby leaving your pristine reputation intact with most readers. Sometimes shooting back just feels too good to resist!"

                                                                            While I can understand having this sentiment on occasion, my issue with acting on it is that, once again, what if the mods don't catch it and it sticks around, and more and more posters think it's ok, and the boards become increasingly antagonistic and therefor unwelcoming or unappealing to newcomers who may have lots of great chow tips? I can see how running into "potshots" (even if they are ones that eventually get removed) could make a lot of potential posters feel as if this is a community to which they don't wish to belong, for fear of being on the receiving end of said pot shots. And then we all lose out, IMO.

                                                                            I'm not saying we all have to be "touchy-feely" all the time, but why not err on the side of caution, with the idea in mind that, in the long run, it will lead to even more delicious tips? I was really hesitant to post about my first DiFara experience because of all the sniping that goes on on those threads (and, Tay, I'm not picking on you here, I promise!), and only did so because another hound encouraged me to do so after I expressed my reluctance to her. Of course - that post didn't lead to a new chow tip (hardly!) - but I'm using the example as an illustration of how even long time posters can be cowed (or almost cowed) by strife.

                                                                            1. re: MMRuth

                                                                              I see your point, MMR, but sometimes the potshots taken at you just hurt too much to let them go. And it *IS* possible to put them up for personal emotional soothing, then immediately shoot off a request to ChowCops to take it down. Just had such an "owie" here within the hour when something I wrote half in jest, all in real concern, was seriously misconstrued.

                                                                              And that, in a nutshell, is a major problem with the written word. Not just in this forum, but with any written communicaation in which the writer is not well known and understood by the recipient. As an attorney, few are more aware of this than you. Written music carries worlds more inflection and mood than the written word. There is no trickier missile to write than one to someone who is angry at you because it is in their power, not yours, to twist and turn every word you write.

                                                                              I would be a lot more concerned with a shoot-back post being left up because of what it may do to others' opinions of me than I would be over whether others would take it as permission to shoot back. But I do think I tend to overlook my own background and training. That's a world where the goal is for everyone to be personally responsible for their own actions. So I do tend to say things that I expect others to have the maturity and judgement not to act upon simply because I said it.

                                                                              I long ago reached the conclusion that traveling in cyberspace is not easy for the timid or gentle of heart One pot shot at them and they curl and turn brown like a bruised gardenia and like a gardenia, the damage can rarely be undone. Yet they are often the very souls who have a lot of wonderful knowledge to share. Why drive them off?

                                                                              So "My best advice" was not intended for the bullies and "You are WRONG!" crowd. It was and is intended for those gentle souls who are more likely to drift away taking their wealth of knowledge with them. I think getting them to fire back and hold their ground is a fair trade for any clean up work ChowCops have to do. And I hope ChowCops agree! I mean, my god, one of those gentle souls may hold the secret recipe for shoo fly pie with the flim flam sauce that has been my personal holy grail for decades! '-)

                                                                              1. re: MMRuth

                                                                                Another issue to consider re: the potshot back is that it is more work for the mods. They still have to go into the post to delete it. Why give them extra work when you know that it will eventually be taken down.

                                                                          2. I fully admit that I can get snarky (especially on the Not About Food board) and have had posts removed (which I understand completely and support the moderators 100% whether I agree with them in a particular instance or not) with good reason.

                                                                            99% of the time I have a pretty good shell and don't take insults to heart but yesterday one poster's post on a Food Media thread literally made me gasp (I reported it and it was quickly removed) and another posted added their two cents to the insulting as well (and that post was removed also).

                                                                            1. I lurked here for the longest time before jumping into the fray. Probably six months or so. Don't remember the thread or my post... probably something insipid, but it was just enough to get me started. I read all the board titles and if something catches my eye no matter where in the world it is, I'll read. Sometimes I'll reply. I've had my share of the nasties, and I'm self-dubbed the Queen of Delete. The older I get, the thicker my skin seems to be though. I've earned it! Of course I certainly hope I haven't offended anyone.

                                                                              I mostly camp out on the Home Cooking board since we don't get to the great area restaurants as we used to....but I refuse to post my assessment of a much revered certain Cambridge restaurant for fear of setting myself up. I'm wimpy that way.

                                                                              Chowhound is what we make it. The potential is vast and there's nothing like first hand information. I love that Limster keeps drawing us back to the Deliciousness mantra no matter what the discussion. That's what it's all about anyway. Same with relationships.

                                                                              1. I took a "chowhound break" several months ago for this very reason. I closed my account and took off a few months. I still read threads, but I didn't post.

                                                                                After my hiatus, I realized that I loved participating and that I shouldn't let a couple of bad apples deny me of my CH. So, I reopened my account. The moderators are great at responding to ugliness in all it's forms and I thank them for their diligence. I've learned to ignore the obnoxious.

                                                                                1. Chowhound is like any of the other forums I belong to(food, Ridgeline, hometown newspaper, etc.) regarding trolls, or agressive posters. Some forums I belong to are better than others, and how good a forum is reflects how good the moderators are. No moderation, and the forum is a free for all, too much moderation can also be an issue. It is a tough balance to try to enforce. CH is almost too heavily moderated in my humble opinion, which allows it to be a good site, but the heavy moderation also has its flaws.

                                                                                  With the above said, most internet forums require a person to have thick skin, and not allow differences of opinions upset them. On CH, with food being the topic of discussion, and knowing how passionate people get about food, there will be disagreements, and as long as there is no name calling, etc. its all good in my world.

                                                                                  My final comments:

                                                                                  The constant FN bashing gets old, and is played out.

                                                                                  The etiquette threads, bbq threads, and the carnivore threads are some of my favorites because of the discussions they provoke.

                                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                                  1. re: swsidejim

                                                                                    swsj: I have come to feel that stuff like the Food Network bashing is okay even if it is (and IT IS) old and played out. The reason is that new people are coming on and leaving all the time and may not have read much before posting. These folks don't realize that 100 thousand posts about how hideous Paula Deen or how obnoxious Rachel Ray are have already been posted. I generally feel that I should just skip those posts and let it go. The boards are so vast and contain so many messages that I for one have barely scratched the surface. And I log on several times a day, post a lot and have been reading and posting for several years now.

                                                                                    I feel about Chowhound as Banya felt about the material Seinfeld gave him "It's GOLD, Jerry, it's GOLD!"

                                                                                  2. I take breaks occasionally from Chowhound for this reason too. It's funny though... sometimes I feel like the ones that do the most bullying are often really popular posters. I guess some people just prefer that sarcastic type of humor. I'm very non-confrontational, EXCEPT when it comes to bullies. Especially if they're picking on someone that I like! My husband says I just need to learn to let things go. I asked him how one does that, and he didn't really have an answer! I'm working on it though. The breaks really help, because then you find yourself really missing certain posters, and before you know it, you're back into the good stuff again!

                                                                                    I really think it has a lot to do with tone too. It's very difficult to convey tone online, and I'm a big believer in getting your message across with tone... I think this is why I don't actually feel the need to cuss very often. I know I've written and re-written posts, just to try to get my tone across.

                                                                                    14 Replies
                                                                                    1. re: Katie Nell

                                                                                      The good news is that this thread has reminded me of the Chowhounds (many who have responded) who keep me coming back and bring out the best of a discussion (ones in which I disagree as well as agree). And as you said there would definitely be people I'd miss.

                                                                                      1. re: Katie Nell

                                                                                        I'm also generally a non-confrontational person as I'd rather spend my energy on other things. But, like you, if somebody really steps over the line about certain things, I will definitely say my peace and it won't be pretty. I have to say that DH is a great influence. He has such a wonderful, easy-going demeanor without being a doormat. I've learned a lot from him. We may have gotten into a few debates, but we haven't gotten into any scream-fest (yet). I think that some posters are drama seekers, and have seen people who try to get into something for the sheer thrill of it. Some people treat it like a game. Best not to get sucked into it.

                                                                                        Personally, I think some of the "bullying" posters are popular not because of their humor but because they do have some great info. And that is what makes me overlook some of their comments and read what they have to say. Kind of like how some geniuses have some personality issues, but they're still geniuses. In grad school, I worked with a professor who was very talented but incredibly moody and not easy to get along with. I just bit my tongue and dealt with it because I learned so much from him. Would I want that guy as a friend? Probably not. Could I be friends with everybody on this site? Definitely not. But I like learning from them. And that's why I'm still here.

                                                                                        1. re: Miss Needle

                                                                                          As much as I hate to admit it, you're probably right about the "bullying" posters having a lot of great info., now that I think of it from that point of view.

                                                                                          1. re: Katie Nell

                                                                                            Katie, I hate to admit that to myself as well. And the "bullying" posters can also be nice at times. Not everybody is a bitch (or insert whatever word you'd like) 100% of the time.

                                                                                            1. re: Miss Needle

                                                                                              And I'd also like to add that not all posters can be nice all the time as well. We all have our bad days.

                                                                                          2. re: Miss Needle

                                                                                            I like your take on this and can relate. I have no idea what Chowhounders think of me. I have some readers. There are a couple of people that get under my skin but I think I've gotten beyond that.
                                                                                            I think I have something to offer so I don't want the dishes thrown out with the dishwater (by having a snark in with something valuable, that took my effort and time to come up with, and have the mods yank it).
                                                                                            I sometimes sit here with my scotch and get a bit wound up. I am a 60's Vietnam era boy and I don't want anyone telling me what to do so sometimes I cross the line and dare the moderators to redact my comments. Sometimes they do.
                                                                                            I have a sense of humor (I think) and this approaches snarking with thin-skinned people. Tough. I think of belonging (here) and that I have friends around the table, and we are shooting the shit, use coarse language, and everyone knows that things said are said with a smile....and a laugh. Hard to see that, or know that, if you are unfamiliar with my style, and I am invisible.
                                                                                            I don't get into all areas of CH, so I can't comment too much about some boards. This is a good forum, AFAIAC, especially the New England group I belong to.
                                                                                            I'm reminded of the whining chefs in Boston thread. Everyone here cannot be pleased, or happy. I think CH needs a little bit of an edge and not too much overmoderating. I don't want this to be for everybody, or so bland that nobody wants it. I like it fine, just the way it is.

                                                                                              1. re: Sam Fujisaka

                                                                                                Second that!!!! Scargod you're the tops.

                                                                                              2. re: Scargod

                                                                                                Scargod, I just scanned at your posts and wouldn't think you are one of the mean-spirited snarky people I'm talking about -- unless the moderators are deleting all of yours. ; ) Actually, the vast 99+% of people here are quite lovely. People just tend to notice that 1% a lot more.

                                                                                                There's definitely room on this board for some humor and some ribbing as long as it's done with a smile. I just have issues with those know-it-alls who think their sh*t don't stink.

                                                                                                I've never posted drunk but maybe I should one day to see what would happen. But as I tend to be a very happy drunk, I'd probably say I love you to every damn person.

                                                                                                1. re: Miss Needle

                                                                                                  ROFLMAO. And thanks everyone..... You make me blush!
                                                                                                  I don't do it drunk; I just get a buzz goin' and get feisty. Some of it's friendly and funny (again, I think it is).
                                                                                                  Yes, I've had some deleted. I think it was (usually), about a person who's shit don't stink and feels entitled to treat people poorly in dining establishments and grocery stores and deficates (this attitude), on perfectly good threads.
                                                                                                  Sometimes it's a coffee buzz.

                                                                                                  1. re: Miss Needle

                                                                                                    I'm a lightweight drinker and have found that PUI doesn't work for me. It's hard enough to get my idea across sober (although most likely sleep deprived since that's my natural state) that even a glass of wine can make my post incoherent. But, hey, saying "I love you" to everyone can never hurt!

                                                                                                    I agree that 99%+ of posts are positive. There are thousands of posts daily and, though I don't get through most of them, if I wanted to find the rude ones, I'd have to search for them.

                                                                                                    1. re: chowser

                                                                                                      I've tried PUI on other boards and find it just way too much work - my fingers lose all coordination. LOL! But I'm also one of those teary happy "I love you all THIS much" kinda drunks. Thank goodness I rarely imbibe!

                                                                                              3. re: Katie Nell

                                                                                                Yeah, I have found that there are some people who will just NOT let things go and want to SHOW how much they are right. In instances like that, I try just to back away from the thread, and not even go to MyChow so that I don't get tempted to see that there are more responses. I try to avoid the Not About Food board now, because people say the most outrageous things there that make me really want to respond and call them on it, but I know that it's just going to make me angry for no good reason, so I just back away. I agree that it's really frustrating, though.

                                                                                                1. re: JasmineG

                                                                                                  I definitely understand where you're coming from. I tend to leave those posts alone. It's better to let them think they've "won."

                                                                                              4. I know we're all being nice and stroking each other here, but I don't get "I'm a better chowhound than you". Who says that? Who even implies that? Never - not once in more than 6 years, have I ever heard that. You're making stuff up. You're interpreting someone saying, "you're wrong" or even, "I have a different answer" to mean that their trying to be better than you.

                                                                                                If you see something wrong on this site, challenge it. If you're afraid of conflict and confrontation to the point where you'll shut up and stay frustrated even though you know that something that was said is wrong, GO AWAY! Of what use are you? We can't learn anything from your silence, and you shouldn't stick around just to get frustrated.

                                                                                                Yes - we need to maintain civility - no name calling, no beating up on people. But all their opinions are fair game. Opinions that are not delineated and backed up are just bigger targets.

                                                                                                I see no difference at all from 2002 as far as the percentage of negativity goes - the mods (mostly the same ones as always) have seen to that. The signal to noise is a lot less - getting what you need in terms of something specific is somewhat harder because there are a lot more answers, so if there is one right answer, one hit, it is surrounded by more misses. But that's a different problem altogether.

                                                                                                Let's not lose site of right and wrong in our desire to not have better or worse chowhounds. We're really not here for the camaraderie or the entertainment, although those are really great side benefits. We're here for great food information - places to eat, foods to cook. What use would this site be if people just posted all kinds of wrong things and were never challenged because we wanted to feel good about ourselves?

                                                                                                12 Replies
                                                                                                1. re: applehome

                                                                                                  She isn't making that up, I have seen "I'm a better chowhound than you" implied all the time. ALL the time.

                                                                                                  1. re: JasmineG

                                                                                                    as have i.

                                                                                                    there's a chance my posts may, on occasion, come across that way, but that's never my intention. however, there are many times when i'm reading someone else's post, and i can hoonestly envision them looking down their nose at me [or whomever the target of the comment may be] with disdain. some comments practically *scream* condescension or haughtiness.

                                                                                                  2. re: applehome

                                                                                                    Well, some people who are chowish may be afraid of conflict, and who will therefore no post their chowy information here. That represents a net loss of data.

                                                                                                    While some challenges and debates can be useful, often the situation involves a matter of different opinions, rather than factual errors. I'm willing to do the analysis myself from the raw data posted by people (usually by eating the food), so having debates and challenges don't always become a net positive for me if it means getting less raw data by scaring away people who might have some information to contribute.

                                                                                                    1. re: applehome

                                                                                                      I do think that posting "you are wrong" is rude. Why not just post "I disagree with you and here's why" instead? I know there are different personalities etc., but just as I see little place for most rudeness in real life, I don't see why it has a place here either. Why not be polite and informative, rather than rude and informative? Do posters who write "you are wrong" here say that to people in real life as well?

                                                                                                      Edit: There's a recent thread where a poster posted an address or something and someone replied "you are wrong" and posted the correct factual information. Why the need to post "you are wrong" as an intro to providing other posters with the right information? Have to say, I just don't get it.

                                                                                                      1. re: MMRuth

                                                                                                        I've got to agree with that. I also find the solitary "you are wrong" statement kind of rude. May be just semantics, and that may not be your intention. But I can see a lot of posters feeling defensive from a statement like that and being rude back, causing some ugliness on the board. I don't want to feel like I have to walk on eggshells on these boards, but there are ways to phrase things in a more polite manner.

                                                                                                        1. re: MMRuth

                                                                                                          I'm probably the poster you are referring to that stated to another poster that they were wrong. The poster stated that Kossar's was closed and the location was now occupied by the Donut Plant. This is not the first time I've seen post stating Kossar's is closed and I find these post extremely irresponsible as that it can cost Kossar's sorely needed business. It takes nothing more than a quick internet search to see that Kossar's is indeed still open and I probably over-reacted and "snapped" at the poster.

                                                                                                          1. re: KTinNYC

                                                                                                            Oh no - I'm not letting you take credit for that. I've said "you are wrong" when the poster is wrong, certainly more than once. Once when it was stated that saltpeter was sodium nitrite (it is potassium nitrate), others in similar factual contexts. I don't believe anyone should tell anybody that their opinion is wrong, but to state that something stated as fact is wrong is merely making sure that this site always reflects truth - and that errors are corrected. You saved readers from thinking that Kossar's was closed - or worse yet, driving to the Kossar's location for a delicious donut hole, when in fact, there was none there!

                                                                                                            This is a matter of style, as far as I'm concerned. I have no problem with others telling me that I was wrong in relating a fact - I don't take it personally, like it is some sort of great shame. I simply got something wrong and someone corrected me. If that didn't ever happen, I would never learn that something I think is right, is wrong. My perspective is that someone just did me the favor of correcting me. So if I correct someone else, I am doing them (and the readers of the site) a favor. Rudeness and "snapping" has nothing at all to do with it. The interpretation of rudeness is just about style, and we ought to tolerate all styles, if the goal is maximum information.

                                                                                                            1. re: applehome

                                                                                                              I completely agree with you that we are all entitled to our own opinions but not our own facts. I thank you for your perspective but admit it, MMRuth was referring to my "You are wrong" ; )

                                                                                                              1. re: KTinNYC

                                                                                                                I think it is often very difficult to attach a tone/meaning to the writtten/typed word.It brings to mind a commonly used phrase:
                                                                                                                "Get outta here!" which can be interpreted as meaning:
                                                                                                                "You're kidding, right?" or as the harsher: "Go away!"
                                                                                                                Sometimes, it's hard to tell the writers intention.
                                                                                                                When it comes to using, "You're wrong" I find that 'softening' the phrase by using::"I believe you're incorrect," seems to have it come across as somehow less hostile. The writer is conveying the same information just in a less punitive sounding way.:-}

                                                                                                                1. re: Tay

                                                                                                                  That misses my point, entirely. If I believed your opinion was wrong, I would state my opinion vs. yours in such a way as to stimulate conversation and continue the dialectic. I would never state that you were wrong, which is a very conversation-ending statement.

                                                                                                                  But if you say something that is factually mistaken, it's not a function of my *believing* anything - you are simply wrong. Somebody needs to correct that wrong fact, and do so in such a manner that readers will not go away thinking that the stated fact is correct. Examples were given above.

                                                                                                                  Fact is fact, and opinion is opinion. The idea that anything and everything is a matter of opinion here on the Internet is garbage. If this site is to remain a treasure trove of good information, we must all help police it. Wrong information needs to be labeled that way.

                                                                                                                  There should be no mistaking the intent of saying, "you are wrong". The intent is to specifically say that you said something that was incorrect.

                                                                                                                  Notice that I did not begin this post by saying that you were wrong, but rather that you missed my point. This is obviously a matter of opinion, not fact.

                                                                                                          2. re: MMRuth

                                                                                                            MMR: Well, I can see a place for 'You are wrong" posts if it's something dangerous or some info that could ruin a dish by burning it, etc.

                                                                                                            Otherwise, I think there's no need for anything but a post of the correct info.

                                                                                                            1. re: oakjoan

                                                                                                              I see your point, but can't one just say "Actually, I think if you do that you will burn your dish" or "In my experience, that's a dangerous thing to do because .....".

                                                                                                        2. Many "how CH's behave in this community" themed threads wind up the same way. Some opt for tough love; others solidarity. Pretty much the same way we discuss food and our dining experiences. For the record, I've never logged off this community feeling like I wasted time. It's a fabulous eye opener. More pro per lb than con.
                                                                                                          Chow on!

                                                                                                          1 Reply
                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ


                                                                                                            Jfood likes that "more pro per lb than con."

                                                                                                            And like getting a fish bone analogy with a bad post. Spit it out and move on.

                                                                                                          2. Janet
                                                                                                            Thanks to your excellent, thought provoking OP, I have been reminded far more of what I like about this site than what I don't like. I recall my first experience of having been 'ganged up on" and how surprised and at first disturbed, later annoyed, I was for simply having given my opinion. Since that first experience, I have grown a tougher skin, lost control of some responses (And been deleted) and have learned to benefit from the wisdom and (Most of the time) disregard the bad behavior
                                                                                                            Thank you for this great thread!.

                                                                                                            1. You're NOT the only one seeing this Janet! I've seen folks berate and attack others personally. I've seen it more than once by the same people. However, those who have done it appear, in my opinion, to be both insecure, generally, and misguided in their chowhound opinions. It is a disappointment though to see anyone behave this way anywhere, including the CH board.

                                                                                                              1. Janet, from another Janet, I agree with you.

                                                                                                                Some posters are rude, hurtful, and think they are the authority on all subjects. I have been called names/mocked, and I came back at them and told them they were rude. We were all 3 deleted. As we should be. But it felt good to tell them they were rude.

                                                                                                                Over all the site is wonderful. But some posters are stars in their own minds. And they scare new people off with their tone and rudeness. Just because someone knows more about food, doesn't make their taste better than others.

                                                                                                                We all have different ideas of what is good food, what is a good price, and what makes a great meal. Food is very subjective. If lots of us post, then the readers can take an average and decide if they want to try a place.

                                                                                                                I learn from this board all the time. But I am leary of posting very often because of the hurtful posts that certain people seem to get pleasure from.

                                                                                                                1. CONFESSION

                                                                                                                  I once replied to a post tongue in cheek about indigenous animals, foods, etc. That person had me screened for the thread, obviously I had stretched their patience, however I only did it because I had found their OP offensive, Il considered and arrogant.

                                                                                                                  Most members on this board are here because they are interested in learning more, but from time to time there are some arrogant donkey crosses that betray what i think is wonderful about this kind of forum.

                                                                                                                  1. Two things I always try to remember (try being the operative word, sometimes I succeed, others I don't) are:

                                                                                                                    Don't take things personally and don't make things personal.


                                                                                                                    1. it's funny, this thread actually just influenced my action [or lack thereof] in another one. i just noticed that another chowhound posted a really snarky response to something i said earlier this evening. my initial instinct was, of course, to shoot back...but i restrained myself. i then considered reporting the post, going as far as clicking "report"...but changed my mind & decided not to send it to the mods. i realized that what i really want is to see if they go ahead & delete it on their own...and if not, whether any other hounds might notice the comment & choose to jump into the fray & perhaps respond to it.

                                                                                                                      22 Replies
                                                                                                                      1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                                                                                                        As a greenling Hound for 17 months, I have reported myself for some appeasing, cathartic equilibrium 7 times, all with success.
                                                                                                                        As for the other 817 of my deletions, I understand the reasoning for 674 of them.

                                                                                                                        1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                          Funny! Thanks for the big grin.

                                                                                                                            1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                              I think I just figured something out from reading, here. It has never occurred to me to use the "wink" smiley face [ ;) ] to imply you are kidding. Seriously. I did not realize there was a subtle differentiation.
                                                                                                                              Veggo, (et al) do you think you/I would have been deleted less if you/I had used it and should I start using it now? Are there disingenuous winkers? ;) or :) (you pick one).

                                                                                                                              PS: the CH clock is way off (by three hours) since I posted this at 7:24AM EST

                                                                                                                              1. re: Scargod

                                                                                                                                Disingenuous winking is a universal no-no. Most of my deletes come about when a post strikes a tender chord, and replies prompted by a personal passion tend to wander off topic. Mea culpa.

                                                                                                                                1. re: Scargod

                                                                                                                                  The CNN servers are on the left coast.

                                                                                                                                  The emoticons for winking and smiling have different meanings.

                                                                                                                                  :-) smile, happy
                                                                                                                                  ;-) wink
                                                                                                                                  :-D big grin
                                                                                                                                  :-O big surprise

                                                                                                                                  etcetc... Wiki has a good article including the history (including Morse Code references from 1857).

                                                                                                                                  BUT. I don't think that emoticons have anything whatsoever to do with deletions. Some of my truly dripping with irony posts are still on this site (some yet to be discovered for what they are), while many other straightforward ones are long gone. And, I don't use emoticons.

                                                                                                                              2. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                                                                                                                Interesting. I find that the mods are not always the most consistent -- or it could also be the timing of the flag. I've complained about a spoiler in a Top Chef thread around midnight. It took some time before it was removed. The entire time I was thinking, "How could those mods let that post be there! So many people would be pissed!" GHG, you know how those Top Chef threads could get.

                                                                                                                                Funny thing is I flagged a pretty snarky comment on an Food Media thread last night. The poster looked familiar. I then realized that poster is on this thread, and I remembered that poster because his or her words were very reasonable and logical -- which shows that anybody could have a bad day or have a certain topic to set him or her off. The post was removed a few minutes later.

                                                                                                                                1. re: Miss Needle

                                                                                                                                  The moderators sleep, too. We don't have people assigned to read the boards at different times of day -- the volunteers moderate as they have time available which tends to be during the day and early evening in whatever time zone they're in. Late night flags will take longer for us to get to.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: Miss Needle

                                                                                                                                    hmmm... I don't think it's as much a case of "the mods" not always being the most consistent as it is of different mods having differing evaluations of whether to delete or not delete. And with *everyone,* mods or not, their particular mood at any particular moment will also have some bearing. A reader's mood can change the intended inflection of the writer withough a second thought.

                                                                                                                                    You CAN have vocal inflection with chat groups that meet on IRC. But in defense of this type of forum, it makes discussion available to a whole bunch more people than any chat group done live!

                                                                                                                                    I do wonder how many "fire back" posts would be written if people took the time to read things carefully and at least a second time before responding. If I had a dollar for all the times someone has obviously missed a word or two in scanning my posts and thereby came to a gross misunderstanding, I could take us ALL to lunch! (Only a slight hyperbole.)... '-)

                                                                                                                                    1. re: Miss Needle

                                                                                                                                      Perhaps Mod. Mgmt. would like to clarify (even more), but my understanding is they are fairly liberal when you get away from the Regional and National Boards stating "Tips for Dining, Eating, and Food Shopping in the...", IE, when it's not just about food. Thus the motto, "Hate the chow, love the chowhound." Happy snarking elsewhere! ;)

                                                                                                                                      1. re: Scargod

                                                                                                                                        No. Rude, unfriendly posts are removed regardless of the board. We're more tolerant on the non-regional boards in the sense that they encompass a wider swathe of 'on-topic', but rudeness, flaming and personal attacks are never acceptable anywhere on the site.

                                                                                                                                      2. re: Miss Needle

                                                                                                                                        LOL. That was me, I think. I tried what some people said; let loose, get the frustration out, and get deleted! It worked. I felt better, my post was gone in sixty seconds, and I guess we all live on. Hey, I'm just learning the ropes, ok. ;-0

                                                                                                                                        1. re: JackieChiles

                                                                                                                                          I wasn't going to mention any names but you outed yourself! ; )

                                                                                                                                          Problem is when, as Jacqueline noted, these posts don't get picked up right away and these posts linger on the boards for hours or even days. What helps me is to write my snarky response and then press the back button.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: Miss Needle

                                                                                                                                            Yeah, I felt bad about doing it. It's not really my style. It was funny though, my goodness, I'm not kidding, that thing was gone! Poof! I didn't even have time to refresh and come back to edit. It was gone that fast.

                                                                                                                                            I notice too, that you can edit your post, sometimes hours after you post. That's good.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: JackieChiles

                                                                                                                                              I think you have two hours to edit. If you regret a post past that, you can always self report like some of us have said we do. It's better,as TDQ says, not to get to that point and post but sometimes things can get heated. I can't tell you the number of posts (not heated but just irrelevant) I've written and then thought twice and not posted. BTW, get used to the "Poof!";-)

                                                                                                                                              1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                I do not like the format of seeing only a small portion of your post, as you compose it. Then you post it and, viola!, you see it in all its unseemly glory. Many regrets! This is a poor design, in my view. Amateurish to have tiny, tiny windows to post in and then you have to post it before you can see it all at one time; realizing that it doesn't read well or flow well and needs change. This is like having to scroll to read (on a computer screen), versus having a book in your lap! Why do we only deserve a tiny strip in the middle of the huge screen? I feel like I'm working on a Trash-80.
                                                                                                                                                Sometimes it seems like a twenty minutes delay before you can access someones post from the time that they actually make it. Just three of my many niggling complaints about technical issues and format on this site.
                                                                                                                                                Oh, yea, what was the topic??

                                                                                                                                                1. re: Scargod

                                                                                                                                                  Compose in an email form or in Word or what have you. Then paste in to the "tiny box" and, voila! you have a completed, coherent essay of your choosing.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Scargod

                                                                                                                                                    Well, if you tend toward essays instead of posts (who, me???) you can always write them with a word processor, then cut and paste. And..... TaDAAAH... Word processors have spell checkers! Yay, Caroline! '-)

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Caroline1

                                                                                                                                                      Yes, agreed to both of you. I guess I was in a pissy mood yesterday. Needed more blood sugars at that point... So, here I am, working in Word! I just get irritated with my favorite (and only regular), forum, with all its idiosyncrasies and bugs.
                                                                                                                                                      Why should I have to use Word? Yes, I've lost and had to reconstruct long essays and reviews. I know I probably should. When you are reading and you feel the urgent need to respond, then is not the time to stop, open Word, cut and paste, to begin again, hoping your train of thought doesn’t get derailed. Then there’s the issue of the Chow site being somewhere else. Yes, the features in Word are great but it is extra steps to configure both to be visible and accessible on one screen. OK, I have dual monitors (I cannot lie). I just haven't seemed to develop the habit. It’s not very spontaneous…. Guess I'm just an old dog that just wants to be grumpy and doesn't want to moved from my usual spot.
                                                                                                                                                      My analogy is of a friend inviting me to cook for a large group. I try to foresee bringing favorite knives, specialized tools and personal, favorite seasonings, but when I show up things are missing things that are normal in my kitchen, or I don’t have enough food, charcoal or ice (this has happened). So I limp along making the best of it.

                                                                                                                                                      I’m done whining, for now. No...wait....! It's taken away all the fancy stuff I did in Word!

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Scargod

                                                                                                                                                        LOL! BIG concilliatory hug! No matter what you do, there are times when life is just going to be sh*tty. '-)

                                                                                                                                            2. re: JackieChiles

                                                                                                                                              JackieChiles, since you're new, I would like to discourage you from developing the bad habit of letting your frustration out on your fellow 'hounds, tempting though it may be.

                                                                                                                                              All you succeed in doing when you lash out is creating an unpleasant, intimidating environment; creating more work for the mods; fanning the flames of confusion (and hurting people's feelings) when your frustration has been the result of a misunderstanding; or giving a thrill to those who have set out to antagonize you when your frustration has been the result of someone's deliberate effort to inflame. If someone is deliberately trying to antagonize you, why give them the satisfaction of seeing you lose your cool? Just ignore them or report them to the mods and scroll on.


                                                                                                                                              1. re: The Dairy Queen

                                                                                                                                                TDQ, your words are heeded. I hear ya, and will not let that happen again!

                                                                                                                                        2. goodhealth, that's an interesting reaction.

                                                                                                                                          A chowhound wrote something that you felt was snarky but you're waiting to see if a) the mods will remove it without your flagging it for them and b) waiting to see if another CH will comment on your behalf or report the comment/response to Mods on your behalf? Why not just take matters into your own hands if you feel the remark was aimed at you/something you wrote? Mods may not catch it and personal attacks (even in your defense) are usually discouraged discourse. The report button is there for your convenience.

                                                                                                                                          4 Replies
                                                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                            i should have explained my reasoning more clearly...i was waiting to see if i had overreacted or was being overly sensitive...it wasn't sufficiently inflammatory to *offend* anyone - except me, of course :) it was just obnoxious, and i didn't think it was worth wasting the mods' time. they have enough to do already.

                                                                                                                                            update: apparently i wasn't overreacting...or maybe the mods just decided enough was enough with the character assassinations of FN personalities - as of this morning, the entire thread in question is gone! [FWIW, in my post, i was *defending* the FN hosts].

                                                                                                                                            1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                                                                                                                              Sheeesh! And here I spent two hours pouring over your profile page reading every thread you've responded to in the last two weeks! '-)

                                                                                                                                              (This is a lie.)

                                                                                                                                              1. re: Caroline1

                                                                                                                                                "(This is a lie.)"
                                                                                                                                                clearly. because with the way i run my mouth, that would take *much* longer than 2 hours ;)

                                                                                                                                          2. I think a big part of this is learning the ropes. When I first started posting I was snarky every time. After a short while I came to understand these boards are not about listening to yourself talk or laugh at your own jokes. I quickly learned you can receive and give knowledge and have some fun as well. Now I play nice and enjoy CH much more.

                                                                                                                                            1. We've moved a post about moderation on CHOW to the CHOW Feedback board. You can find it here:



                                                                                                                                              1. Long thread here and getting longer. Brothers Karamazov might be a quicker read. Some very good points. Nothing to add with respect to personal attacks.

                                                                                                                                                There is, in general, lots of negative posting here, ie bad reviews of venues and eateries that go way beyond anything even remotely resembling constructive criticism. Not that I'm against a negative review, but there are many instances in which I sense that the poster, or posters, have a gigantic axe to grind, and their venom makes that obvious. One example I can think of was a poster who hated his Korean fried chicken so much as to insinuate that the venue was serving brown water, which is an inference that can, potentially damage and/or end that eatery's business. The "brown water" in question, for anyone not familiar with Korean restaurants, was a barley or corn tea, and I called the poster on his claim, accused him/her (?) of being irresponsible, and wound up getting both of our posts deleted.

                                                                                                                                                I think the same call for mutual respect that has been discussed here can easily apply to understanding that, even in panning a particular restaurant, we should exercise a modicum of personal responsibility.

                                                                                                                                                Our screen names and relative anonymity do not absolve us of this.

                                                                                                                                                1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                1. re: Polecat

                                                                                                                                                  Next time around just use the Report function to bring the post to the Mod's attention and let them handle it. Just remember, never feed the trolls, they'll just come back looking for more.

                                                                                                                                                2. I believe that level of rudeness is amped up due to the anonymity of being on line. With the anonymity, some people may lose sight of the fact that they are talking to a person with feelings. Perhaps they forget about the uman element and think that they are talking to an inanimate screen. Some are rude because they are chickens and this is their only bit of power, and folks won't push back. I suspect that they lack the guts to be so aggressive in person. However, my husband tells me that he has in fact seen on-line aggression demonstrated just as fiercely in person, so go figure!

                                                                                                                                                  3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Bite Me

                                                                                                                                                    So true. If you check out the comments for eater.com, you'll find that most of them are insane (most post anonymously). And if you read the food blog for NY Magazine (where you have to register like Chowhound), there are some insane ones but not as much. I know we'll all be a bit more civil if we were seated together conversing face-to-face.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Miss Needle

                                                                                                                                                      Haven't checked the comments on gothamist in a while, but, circa, say, one year ago, they were on a level with high school toilet stall graffiti - abusive, insulting and cowardly. Compared to that Algonquin round table, the obnoxiousness on these boards is downright civil.

                                                                                                                                                      All of this being said, though: Isn't it amazing how, when someone tacks the words, "hands down" to the end of an opinion, that very action automatically obliterates and invalidates all other opinions? Try it sometime, it really works.

                                                                                                                                                      Here, I'll show you: Best napkins to wipe up coffee rings? Tuskahoocheemama Diner. Hands down!

                                                                                                                                                      See what I mean? Try it yourselves - it really works. The exclamation point is also a big help.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Polecat

                                                                                                                                                        > they were on a level with high school toilet stall graffiti - abusive, insulting and cowardly.

                                                                                                                                                        Cowardly? Are you telling me all those knuckleheads aren't really named "anonymous"?

                                                                                                                                                        As for the ever-popular "Hands down," I'll submit its cousin, "Enough said."

                                                                                                                                                        Enough said by *you*, I always think. Now it's our turn.

                                                                                                                                                  2. Thank god for this thread. There is a regular poster in my city whose opinions on food agree with mine but every post written contains something which imho is:

                                                                                                                                                    sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, passively insulting.mocking, know-it-all, condescending, elitist, disdainful etcetera.

                                                                                                                                                    The poster annoys the *&%$@! out of me. Whew. I feel better now. I will not flame. I will not post a link. I will just write this tiny little post in an unrelated board and go watch the Olympics.

                                                                                                                                                    2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                    1. re: MyNextMeal

                                                                                                                                                      MyNext, good for you. Releasing a little steam every now & then is good for the soul. Just remember our good friend IRONY and let the chowhounding commence.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: MyNextMeal

                                                                                                                                                        You may want to check out this hilarious link. Perhaps your poster fits one of the flame warriors.


                                                                                                                                                      2. It seems like this thread has long since run it's original course, so we're going to lock it.