New and great in S.D./LaJolla?

[josephnl]

We will be in San Diego in a couple of weeks. Have been many times, but are looking for something new and really great in San Diego or La Jolla. We like French, American or Seafood restaurants, and avoid chains if at all possible. Prefer relatively quiet, upscale restaurants with good food, good cocktails and good wine list. Some of our favorites have been George's and Tapenade in La Jolla, Winesellar and Brasserie in San Diego. We want to try something new and terrific. Any recommendations?

[honkman]

Since the OP mentioned Winesellar & Brasserie - I just read on another board that Winesellar & Brasserie increased their prices and I just checked their webpage and was quite surprised to see that most entrees are now between $35-45 (before it was $25-35). W & B is not bad but I never thought about it as on of the top restaurant in SD and even though I understand that food prices are going up I don't have problems to understand how W & B will survive with these prices. It is currently one of the most expensive restaurants in SD.

[josephnl]

I am the OP, and I remember with great affection the early days of W & B when the prices were very reasonable, and their wonderful young founding chef...Brad or Doug...Ogden or Organ...I can't remember his name... was cooking in the open kitchen. Yes, today's W & B is a mere shadow of what is was, and is way more expensive...but it is still one of SD's best. Nevertheless, you are absolutely correct in pointing out that it is so expensive that I'm not sure if and when I'll return. There are several other restaurants in the area which have wonderful food and represent better value, a variable which in today's economy is of prime importance.

[daantaat]

I'm not sure if I'd list W & B as one of SD "best," although it is generally solid. I've had some really good meals there (recent short rib) and several grossly underseasoned dishes (filet, fish) that made me wonder what was going on in the kitchen.

I think everyone is a victim in this economy....

[foodiechick]

I am happy to report that we had an absolutely PERFECT lunch here today (I have not been able to utter those words in years). Impeccable food, gorgeous relaxing atmosphere and impeccable service by ALL that we encountered.

[josephnl]

Were was the perfect lunch foodiecheek...the suspense is too much!

[foodiechick]

So blissed out that forgot to post it was AR Valentien.

[Fake Name]

Wow. It must have been a different AR Valentein than the one we went for dinner.

The one we went to was underwhelming. Service was OK- cordial and friendly, my appetizer was pretty good (the charcuterie) but the rest of the mean was pretty ordinary. The shared veg, which appeared to be broccoli rabe, was inedible. I'm glad you have a great experience, and I'm glad we had a $100 gift card so it took the sting out of the bill.

fn

[Alice Q]

Maybe the lesson here is go for lunch! What did you have? We had the pickled vegetable and the prosciutto wrapped grilled romaine salad for starters, and a pasta dish and the burger for our mains. I really wanted the beignets for dessert, but I was just too full.

[josephnl]

I really respect your opinion Alice, but now there are several posters who are noting mediocre to poor service and food at ARV. If you know anyone at this restaurant, perhaps you would do them a favor by letting them know. Certainly it's a beautiful spot, and is apparently capable of putting out great food, but it appears there is a problem with consistency and service. What do you think?

[binkychow]

I have a friend who stays at the hotel every year while attending the horse show. For the last three years, we have had nothing but delicious food and attentive service. At dinner service. The hostess even accommodated a last minute reservation request.

[Beach Chick]

We have a friend that does the same for the season..but for the DMTC..this week..yippee!
Anyway, no complaints from my end and the Evan's family have always been gracious..but not everyone is on their 'A' game..no excuse though.
foodiechick, Alice Q, butter and josephnl, et all..always respect your opinions!
This is such a great spot and should be one of the 'flagship's' of SD..

[Alice Q]

I agree - I think someone up above said they were going to bring this to the restaurant's attention - I do think they would want to know. This isn't the kind of place that can hide any issues behind a scene-y atmosphere or dazzlingly inventive food, so everything really needs to be in tune for it to work!

[foodiechick]

It does seem the negative experiences voiced in this thread have fallen with the dinner guests, which is odd since the "A" team would usually be working the dinner service. Our lunch service and food was so good that we are taking out-of-town guests there for their first "taste of San Diego" when they arrive in a couple of weeks. We enjoyed the Charcuterie plate (the most generous portions of pate that I have seen) and the red oak and heirloom tomato salad with fried okra (had to try the Calif. version of okra, an old TX standby that is usually ruined by over frying - these were golden and light) with ranch dressing (no gloppy ranch here - very light in consistency and ethereal in flavor). Husband had the "Suckling Pig" ravioli - tasted a little like carnitas if you can believe it - but in a good way. I tried the white gazpacho - new on the menu that day and the best white gaz I have ever had - with dungeness lump crab and chino corn, garnished with halved red grapes and star burst tomatoes. The chef graciously provided the recipe when I half joked about obtaining it!

[foodiechick]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that we did have the beignets and they were terrific. Sort of a beignets meets "bananas foster", but not cloyingly sweet.

[Mattiana]

If you want great Clam Chowder try Point Loma Seafood. But I think the best restaurant here is Arrivederci in Hillcrest, very authentic Italian food, fresh pasta, my favorite by FAR, not upscale in price, but upscale in quality.

[butterbutt]

hmm ... we are going back to Addison next Sat for my bday.. I will report back.. It was completely wonderful when we went a year ago...They have hired a new food and beverage mgr.. Hopefully that has helped...I do not believe that it is a prixe fix menu.. as I would have problems with that too. I will check that they have not changed!

[josephnl]

I have just confirmed with the restaurant what I had read previously. In the dining room, one must order a four course prix fixe menu. There are three "savory" courses, and one dessert course. Within each course there are four choices. The dinner (without tax, tip or beverages) is $98. One cannot order a la carte (two courses, for example) in the dining room, however this is permitted in the bar.

This is of course pretty steep. With beverages, tax and tip, I can't imagine getting out for less than $150 pp, more likely with an aperitif and wine, in the range of $200 pp....so I would certainly hope for that money everything would be great, and the fish had better not be smelly!

So, if you do go, please post how everything turned out. Of if anyone else has been there recently, it would be nice to hear about it!

[butterbutt]

will do.. yes my husband called yesterday after reading about the menu here..Sometimes I am not the most ambitious eater!..ok no seafood or shellfish.. so I was worried.. but we are still going.. so I will report back..

BTW had the best dinner at Trattoria Aqua last night.. I always forget about it..but we go once a year.. My husbands and my first date 8 years ago.. waiter was superb.. Not some culinary extravaganza..just very tasty..good price point.. nice ambience.great service all around from the door in..

[NAspy]

I don't know if it's new, but Cucina Romantica in La Jolla shores was an extremely nice experience. We just were in La Jolla 10 days ago for a few days. It's near the La Jolla Shores hotel; there's a couple of little streets with restaurants. The service was very friendly and Italian and the food excellent. We preferred it to Piatti which is also in the area.

We ate at George's at the Cove also (Ocean Terrace) -- very good food but our server was a bit haughty and it wasn't outstanding in my book. Cocktails were great, though.

[butterbutt]

Also one I forget is Addison. Very upscale.. the view is of the golf course..when we were there a hot air balloon flew right in front of the window! Service and food all excellent.. Not on the inexpensive side though. I think it is listed as Del Mar.

[josephnl]

Although I have not been there yet (it's pretty pricey), I have heard only good about Addison. I am thinking of celebrating a special occasion there with a small dinner party...four or six. I know they have basically a prix fixe menu, and am wondering if this will present a problem for one of my guests who is basically a vegetarian, but will occasionally eat simply prepared fish such as halibut or salmon...and is allergic to shellfish. Do you think that Addison will be accommodating enough? I will call them first of course, but am wondering re your thoughts re the menu and the restaurants attitude towards accommodating dietary requirements.

[pickypicky]

If you go, I'd appreciate a posting. My fiance and I were taken out to dinner at Addison. His fish arrived, and it was bad. Not untasty bad, but smelly bad as in old. It was very awkward sending it back, since we were guests. The waiter made it worse by arguing with him. Like your experience at the ARV, when high prices are charged and that kind of show-offy attitude (San Diego's impression of sophistication) is present, then everything better be perfect. Un-fresh fish is possibly a mistake; but a server challenging a diner is unforgiveable. In the end, our hosts were very embarrassed, and so were we. Phoning ahead is wise. I'd also ask pointedly about what is fresh.

[Alice Q]

That seems really strange - considering the prices and how they pride themselves on perfect execution. What kind of fish was it just out of curiosity? Did they eventually take it back?

[pickypicky]

I'll check with my man and see if he remembers. Our hosts and I ordered from the tasting menu, but he had specifically wanted to try this particular fish so ordered ala carte. I also don't remember what day of the week it was. But my man knows his fish and knew it wasn't fresh from first bite. The waiter I think was floored with anything beyond, "Yes, it's perfect." He did take the dish back and offered to have it reprepared. My man requested something different, not wanting to risk more scene. Josephnl is right about that: front of house can spoil almost anything. A good waiter would have bent over backward to erase that moment from our meal. Ours acted like we'd spoiled his evening.

[Alice Q]

You're right, that is totally unacceptable. We had a similar occurrance at Better Half recently - it was already a mediocre meal, but that made it even worse. It's not easy to find top notch servers in SD these days - sounds like Addison really missed the boat with this one!

[josephnl]

No fresh fish should be smelly. Nevertheless, it is never appropriate for a server to argue with a customer. At the very least a server should apologize for a customer's displeasure and ask what the customer would like, to make the situation right.

I find this very disappointing because I have heard good things about Addison, and was planning on hosting a small party there soon. I will now reconsider. This is a perfect example of how bad service can hurt a restaurant...and excellent service can turn an evening around completely. When a customer makes a reasonable complaint, a well managed restaurant should look upon it as an opportunity to make a new friend. It's great when that happens...and regrettably sad when it doesn't.

[pickypicky]

I agree completely. Addison promises a lot by its appearance, prices, and menu. And that's when I expect a lot, as you did at ARV. Had we not been guests, we would have handled everything very sternly, but we wanted to spare their feelings. I like your perspective, Mr. J. What do you think of Savory in Encinitas?

[josephnl]

To be honest, I have not even heard about Savory. I just looked at their website and it looks great. Have you been, and what do you think of it?

[pickypicky]

I like Savory alot-- love the smart design of it and Chef Pascal's french take on Southern California and American food. It's hard for us to get to Encinitas as much as I'd like, and I haven't been in a few months. You can find negative things about Savory on these boards, but I've only had great meals. The chef-owner cares deeply, and if I'd ever had anything go wrong, I would have let him know immediately. The website perfectly reflects the philosophy and food of Savory. . . unlike some websites.

[pickypicky]

Oh, one more thing. Our bad experience was before the hotel was opened at Addison. Maybe now with more volume, they won't have the problem of serving foodstuff that isn't fresh. The dining room was oddly empty the night we were there.

[DougOLis]

What day of the week did you go? I remember in Kitchen Confidential Anthony Bourdain said to never order seafood on a Monday because it isn't fresh and is usually leftovers from the weekend.

[jayporter]

Anthony Bourdain is a very entertaining writer, but from my experience, I wouldn't take his descriptions of restaurant operations and sourcing in Kitchen Confidential to be particularly representative of most establishments (at least in San Diego).

[pickypicky]

I thought Whiskanladle very amateurish. Their handmade sausages had been raved about. They were good but were served with unfresh, uninteresting cheeses, which the chef had tried to hide under the grape leaf garnish. You can't promise the moon and go half-way. The service was terrible, but the restaurant is pretty. I keep pushing A. R. Valentien, which suffers by being part of a hotel and having no glitzy website. There is no better food, no more inventive menu, no prettier dining room in SD. If you like George's and Tapenade (two favorites of mine) then reserve a table on the terrace at the ARV. . .

[Fake Name]

Funny- going there in about 15 mins,

fn

[josephnl]

We have had two horrible meals at Valentien...and aside from food been very poor and overpriced we had bad service and will not return. The last time we were there we arrived at 6:00 PM for a 6:30 PM reservations...the dining room was empty, and we were told by a rude teenager hostess, that we would have to wait 30 minutes to be seated. We asked for a manager who reluctantly agreed to seat us telling us that "they try to honor reservations in a timely manner". This is perhaps the worst dining experience we have ever had in San Diego county. With terrific restaurants like Tapenade, Winesellar, Blanca, Addison, Market, etc. etc. why would anyone go to Valenien?

[Alice Q]

That seems pretty harsh - if you're going to claim the food was horrible, you really should provide some details to back it up. Also, if you were thirty minutes early for your reservation - I don't really understand your complaint about having to wait - maybe the staff was not ready for you yet - it's a very small place so that's entirely possible. I'm sure you were welcome to have a soda or cocktail at the bar with some snacks.

I have never heard anyone complain about their service - and the food is always good quality and usually well prepared. We had a very nice lunch there on the patio on Sunday - two perfect salads, the burger and a nice pasta dish with fresh ricotta - a little too much oil in the pasta was our only problem. I hear they serve a really good breakfast too.

[sdnativa]

DH and I had a very negative experience at ARV because of the service and will not be back. No complaints about the food but we were treated very badly. I wrote to the management about our experience and did not receive a reply; this was consistent with the blow-em-off attitude of the waitstaff and the restaurant manager, who we spoke with the conclusion of our meal.

[pickypicky]

Hard for me to imagine "horrible meals" and rudeness at a place that has never disappointed me. (Ah, but lax SD service is another story. . .) However, if I had had either bad food or service at a place like the ARV, I would have immediately sent my food back to be corrected or asked to speak to the chef. OR at that moment expressed my displeasure with food and service to the manager and declared I would not pay. Writing later is the next best option; sending the letter to the hotel manager (in this case with a copy to hotel owner Bill Evans) with details like sdnativa did. Mistakes can happen. After all, fine dining is an art, and professionals want to be aware of shortcomings. When we as diners let mediocrity slide by, we're not doing our part.

[sdnativa]

Not only did I write Mr. Evans, but the restaurant manager (whom we spoke with personally at the time), the hotel manager, and food service manager all received letters. I pulled their names from the corporate website. Not a word back from any of them; nada, zilch, zip.

[josephnl]

In my book, that alone is enough to never return.

I wish more restauranteurs were like Danny Meyer, the proprieter of several great restaurants in New York (Union Square Cafe, Gramercy Tavern, The Modern, etc.). He has written a wonderful book about hospitality in the restaurant business entitled "Setting the Table". This book should be required reading for everyone in the restaurant business. His bottom line is that hiring staff who care about people and enjoy taking good care of people, is more important than hiring people with good technical skills...because the former cannot be taught, and the latter can be learned!

[josephnl]

Re problems with the food:
1) My guest for the dinner was a vegetarian, and after specifically telling server so, was assured that the pureed vegetable soup was made with vegetable stock. Great! It was then served with a pancetta garnish floating on the top. The complaint was not handled graciously!
2) My food was simply not good...it was dry, overcooked and tasteless.

Re not being seated when we arrived 30 minutes early...at the 6:00 o'clock opening time: The dining room was absolutely empty and was indeed fully staffed. The hostess who blew us off, was rude in her manner and the manager was not at all accommodating in his manner when he seated us. When we were seated, there clearly was no shortage of staff to take care of us.

As sdnativa indicates in her post, we clearly felt that we were being "blown-off" by unprofessional and uncaring staff, and we will not return.

[pickypicky]

Please read my reply above. A chef would be appalled by your treatment and by your dissatisfaction with the food. Especially the pancetta garnish, which was the fault of the server. He/she would have gladly replaced your entree if you had sent it back. I don't blame you for not returning, but I will suggest that we SD diners who are getting this terrible service should do more not to accept it, pay for it, or tip it.

[josephnl]

Agree that the chef likely would and should be appalled by guest receiving poor treatment at the front of the house. Nevertheless, we are from Orange County and get to the SD area about 6x/year for theater...and with so many excellent restaurants to choose from, we will not miss ARV. (We had a great meal at Blanca (Solana Beach) last weekend!)

[Alice Q]

That's too bad - I hear mostly complimentary things about AR Valentien, so I'm surprised to see here that there are so many complaints about the service. We had very good service on Sunday at lunchtime, if that's any consolation.

Glad you liked Blanca - it's one of my favorite places, and the service has always been unfailingly excellent there.

[RB Hound]

Maybe they got so used to getting huge, PGA tour professional tips that they no longer feel the need to appeal to the common folk. Next January is a long ways off, though, so they really ought to reconsider that 'tude. :)

[honkman]

Actually I have heard from several people about below average service at ARV

[pickypicky]

Josephnl and sdnative, I am sending this thread to someone I know at the ARV. Because the Valentien has been one of my favorite SD places and the place I always take my East Coast, NYC, and Texas friends. Because you are clearly discerning diners. James Beard once said that the best restaurant is the one where you're known. Since I'm known there, I care about their reputation and quality. If your meal was an unhappy one, I could be next.

[foodiechick]

What a gracious response. Although those sorts of service issues should be a rarity at best, it certainly helps when management hears it from a respected and frequent customer.

[sdnativa]

Thank you! I will be interested to hear .....anything!

[josephnl]

Thank you. I too would be interested in any response you receive. I think it is unconsciounable that no reply was made to sdnativa.

If you are really into restaurants and service in particular, do yourself a favor and take the advice I offered earlier and read Danny Meyer's "Setting the Table". In is the most insightful book about service in the restaurant industry that I have ever seen. It explains why his restaurants rate #1 and 2 for popularity in New York City!

[eatemup]

I have been several times, twice for the Thursday evening farm table on the patio and 4 or 5 times in the dining room for dinner. The hostess staff has been universally terrible, generally condescending and dismissive. Once, the hostess was so rude that we decided against eating in the dining room and enjoyed a burger and bottle of wine on the patio instead.

[bvorono]

we're looking forward to dining here in august and were debating between chefs thursday table (if we can get a spot) or regular dinner?
thoughts?

[eatemup]

Both times the Thursday table was outstanding. I highly recommend it. Inside, usually good. Outside, always wonderful.

[josephnl]

Why bother when the service situation is so iffy? There are so many excellent restaurants in the area where the food is great and you can expect to be welcomed like the guest you are. Review this string for many wonderful restaurants and forget ARV!

[Alice Q]

It's actually not that simple - at least in my mind. The chef is very conscientious about the ingredients he uses and makes a real effort to support local farms and purveyors. He is also active in the community and donates a lot of his time. That in and of itself would prevent me from writing it off so easily. Not to mention the fact that the food is very high quality and usually well prepared and I've never experienced any service issues. The service we received on Sunday (from the hostess on down) was uniformly excellent. I've also taken a tour group there and had an excellent display put out for us with fantastic service, and had dinner there twice with no issues whatsoever.

[josephnl]

What can I say other than my experience has been very different. As I have stated before, I can more easily forgive mediocre food than I can poor or rude service. It may well be that the restaurant treats regulars differently...or that we were just incredibly unlucky on two occasions...although I am not the only one who has been critical of the service at this restaurant on this string. I have no doubt that the chef is excellent, conscientious, etc., but someone needs to see that the front of the house does its job with the same degree of care and professionalism.

[Alice Q]

just to clarify, I'm not a "regular" and I didn't get any sort of special treatment for having been there before - my visits have been months apart, and with no advance notice, etc.

I have no doubt that your experiences were different and I understand how you feel - I hope this gets their attention.

[josephnl]

Thanks, Alice for being understanding. Unfortunately we have just had very bad experiences x2 at ARV. Perhaps we'll give it another go at some time in the future, but for now, with several other good places to chose from, we'll wait. Most recently we have had wonderful dinners at Market and Blanca...good service, good food, and overall very pleasant experiences. What do you think of these places?

[Alice Q]

I love Blanca and I like the food at Market, but the service and the dining room have not been as good, at least imho. I've written about them both on my blog - if you do a search on www.aliceqfoodie.com you should be able to find the posts.

[josephnl]

We were in La Jolla yesterday, and upon the recommendation of several chowhounds ate at Blanca in Solana Beach. It was great. Everything from cocktails to amuse bouche to dessert and coffee was excellent. The restaurant is attractive and the service was great. A definite winner.

Agree with others that Market in Del Mar is also excellent. Also, we peeked into Whishnladle, and think that it would be a good choice for brunch or lunch.

[amy_nysd]

Whisknladle in La Jolla - the philosophy is much like Market in Del Mar where everything is sourced locally and made in-house. The menu is eclectic/new American. The homemade pappardelle is amazing.

You also may like The Better Half in Hillcrest. All wine served in half bottles and the food is excellent.

[ginael]

Cafe Chloe in East Village (downtown) for good French food and cozy and romantic vibe.
Nine-Ten in La Jolla for the American-Seafood selection and wine list.

[stephenlambert]

You should try out Manhattan in La Jolla. Excellent caesar, very good steaks, incredible veal chop, and my favorite: Lobster ravioli. I actually never really like lobster ravioli but I tried it here and it was great.

[Beach Chick]

Manhattan's is so old school..food was better years ago but still good..
Sante & Trattoria Acqua for Italian are so much better..imo
Market, Blanca or Cavaillon for the Del Mar area.
French Market Grill and Bernardo's in North County for French.
Cafe Chloe in SD.

[foodiechick]

Agree with Beach Chick on Manhattan being old school. It can be fun, but there are some waiters with BIG tudes. Eat in the bar area and let the gorgeous bartender Suede aid you. Scampi and some pastas ok, try the off-the-menu spinach sauteed with garlic. Acqua great, but need an RSVP.

[stevuchan]

The bartender is Beige, but Suede is close enough, and kind of funny.

[foodiechick]

You are right, of course it is Beige, and that is kind of funny when I come to think of it. Well it was 10pm when I posted - must have been really sleepy :-)

[Alice Q]

If you haven't tried it, I would recommend Blanca in Solana Beach. It's quiet, has a nice atmosphere, and the food is excellent - I also really like Tapenade and the Winesellar and it's my new favorite. I am also hearing really good things about Whisknladle in La Jolla, where Fresh used to be - on Wall St.

[daantaat]

AR Valentien at the Torrey Pines Lodge
Addison in Carmel Valley
Market in Del Mar

Oceanaire is good, but not quiet by any means.

[cgfan]

Oceanaire (Gaslamp Quarter, downtown) should be the new destination for seafood lovers. And don't miss their crabcake! Almost out of this world ephemeral! It makes all other crabcakes seem over-wrought, over-seasoned, and over-done. Here's a kitchen that has the confidence to let their (very well-sourced) ingredients speak for itself!

MInd you it is a small, high-end chain, but if ever there was a restaurant that seems like an independent, this'll be it...