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Non-mall dinner KC

a
aviva1 Jun 18, 2008 09:44 AM

Coming to KC in two weeks for 3 days. Planning to hit some bbq joints the middle day while the teens are at an all day concert.

We should get in after a long drive from Chicago in time for dinner. Are staying at the Westin downtown, by Union Station. So where's a good, casual but nice, non chain place to eat? I know there's a big mall there but want to avoid that kind of thing if possible. Will have 3 regular eaters and a pescatarian....thoughts??

  1. heatherkay Jun 18, 2008 11:19 AM

    I did a Google Maps on Union Station, and here's few of my findings for restaurants that might fit the bill.

    Some of these restaurants can be a little spendy, but nothing that will blow you out of the water, especially if you’re coming from Chicago. I’ve omitted the seriously fancy-schmancy places and hamburger joints. Tried to focus on sit-down restaurants that are comfortable and clean, reasonably friendly to teens and older children.

    Lidia’s. An Italian restaurant affiliated with the TV chef and cookbook writer Lidia Bastianich. Northern Italian specialties. An excellent brunch.

    The City Taven. Steaks and fish entrees. Oysters on the half-shell. If you can get dinner during their happy, an extra score.

    La Bodega. This is a tapas place, so you can spend a little or a lot, depending on how many plates and what kind. It is a fun atmosphere, and a great way to introduce kids to some new foods. Some great fish and vegetarian options.

    Shiraz. A Middle Eastern/Mediterranean restaurant with excellent veggie options. Has a cute courtyard if the weather is nice.

    Pizza Bella. Smallish wood-fired pizzas with an eclectic list of toppings. Great little wine list. Garage doors roll up when the weather’s nice giving you indoor/outdoor dining.

    El Pueblito. My favorite Mexican restaurant in KC, just down SW Blvd. A whole chain of Mex. restaurants on this strip, but I think this is the best. I remember a pretty good range of seafood options. Stop next door for paletas, Mexican fresh-fruit popsicles.

    That's at least a start.

    11 Replies
    1. re: heatherkay
      lizlemon Jun 18, 2008 04:23 PM

      La Bodega is fantastic, great atmosphere, great food, and tres leches cake is awesome. If you are from out of town, you should track down Andres, chocolates and pasteries.

      1. re: heatherkay
        j
        Jakevol2 Jun 19, 2008 11:10 PM

        1924 Main
        Azul
        Bluestem
        Philips Chophouse
        Piropos

        1. re: heatherkay
          p
          pollymerase Jun 23, 2008 06:35 PM

          Run, don't walk, to Pizza Bella! I don't know what I was thinking not trying this restaurant sooner, but it just jumped to the top of my fav places in KC. The pizza is probably the best I've had. Interesting combinations (I had prosciutoo and arugula, friend had eggplant and goat cheese) as well as being able to build your own more traditional pizza. The crust is amazing and the pizza is served with a drizzle of a very nice olive oil around the outside of the dish for dipping. They have a row of tables outside and tonight was the perfect early summer night to enjoy the warm breeze. Terrific!

          1. re: pollymerase
            a
            Aaron Deacon Jun 25, 2008 08:07 AM

            Pizza Bella is a cute place, but several notches below--actually not even in the same playing field--with places like Spacca Napoli or Coalfire, just as a frame of Chicago reference. Just based on one visit, of course, so take that for what it's worth.

            1. re: Aaron Deacon
              Irishbeer4me Jun 25, 2008 05:08 PM

              As a Chicago boy living in Kansas City, I think Pizza Bella is on the same par as Spacca Napoli and is way above Coalfire. Coalfire is so hit or miss, but more times a miss, bland cheese, over salted sause and some of the take out pizzas has been cold soggy messes.

              1. re: Irishbeer4me
                a
                Aaron Deacon Jun 26, 2008 07:41 AM

                Wow, I guess I ought to try Pizza Bella again. I'm really surprised to hear that they can put out that high quality of product. When I went to Pizza Bella, the mozzarella was disappointing, both sauce and crust were too sweet, and the whole plate was swimming in olive oil! And the potato gorgonzola was much for of the American topping overkill school (which many people favor, of course) than the Neapolitan minimalist school.

                I've had one mediocre pie at Spacca Napoli, but everything else has been perfect. I've been to Coalfire 5 or 6 times and found it above my one Pizza Bella experience every time. I've never had it for take out, and would guess it would not be nearly as good as in the restaurant.

                1. re: Aaron Deacon
                  k
                  KCMOChef Jun 26, 2008 08:00 AM

                  The chef @ pizzabella was the a sous chef at bluestem and a sous chef a pachamama's before that. He knows what he's doing. He also does nightly specials like whole roasted fish and duck confit and he does all of it in the pizza oven....amazing food.

                  1. re: KCMOChef
                    a
                    Aaron Deacon Jun 26, 2008 08:40 AM

                    Are you talking about Rob Dalzell, or is there another Chef de Cuisine in the kitchen to whom you're referring? I love that the guy is devoted to KC, devoted to downtown, that he's pursuing cool concepts, and has a flair (and capital) for design. I'm glad people here seem to really love his food, but it just doesn't do it for me.

                    I've eaten at 1924 Main, Chefburger, Pizza Bella, and Souperman, and I've been underwhelmed by each meal. The sprouts at Pizza Bella were pretty decent, and so were the fried green beans at Chef Burger, but overall the % of dishes at those restaurants that I'd order again is about 10%.

                    I'm not criticizing the dude's training, dedication, or intent. I don't think his food is nearly as good as it's cracked up to be. There is a real Sysco-quality in all the restaurants, at least in the execution. I know he uses some local stuff too. And it's possible his kitchens perform some alchemy by which fresh, local produce turns into Sysco-generated prepared food flavor to my taste buds. I dunno.

                    My wife's fish at 1924 resembled nothing so much as a giant Mrs Paul's fish stick. I get the retro trend toward processed comfort foods writ gourmet, but I don't think that was the intent here. Souperman is a great concept--the soups and sandwiches have that combination of oversalt and oversweet that I've come to expect from fast food restaurants. A Neapolitan pizza margherita ought to have big melted discs of quality fresh mozzarella--not the case at Pizza Bella. And there's no good excuse (at least for me--if it please everyone else, by all means do it!) for drowning your pizza crust in a pool of oil.

                    And, you know, reading the Pitch article a few weeks ago, it's not a huge surprise, because he's talking about having 20 ChefBurgers, or whatever. Good for him. But that attitude comes through in the food. It comes through in the decor and marketing materials too, at least in his latest 3 offerings, which is considerably slicker than your typical chef-driven local opening.

                    Again, this is all fine. KC does great with chains, and I don't mean that simply as a slam. Houlihan's is a pretty solid chain. Bristol, I've never been, but it certainly has a stellar reputation here.

                    Chain food can be good, sure...that's not the argument. I do find it's often not to my taste, for much of the same reason I don't tend to care for Dalzell's spots. And other operational observations support the fact they take shortcuts that often lead to lower food quality (and higher margins) in corporate restaurants.

                    That's cool. If he expands these concepts, I can certainly see the opportunity for success. I sure like Pizza Bella way, way, way better than Pizza Hut. And given how much people love this guy (and how glad I am he supports the KC restaurant scene), I'll certainly keep trying his restaurants. But I've been pretty underwhelmed to date.

                    1. re: Aaron Deacon
                      k
                      KCMOChef Jun 26, 2008 01:08 PM

                      I'm am not slamming your opinion in fact I agree totally. I have had less then steller meals at all his locations. 1924’s food does seem cheap. But look at the prices he’s charging. You would have no choice. I am the chef of a private club in South Kansas City and I have wanted to open my own place more than once but every time I crunched the numbers you would have to charge the same prices as the American to sell top of the line ingredients and make it. And I am not exaggerating at all!! I think all the places in town that try to give the customer a “value” by try to sell the same food as the “big dogs” at a discounted price will always lose. There is a reason why the expensive restaurants and clubs in KC survive. They know what they are doing.
                      Souperman was horrible. I did like chef burger.
                      I am just saying to give pizza bella another shot. I think it’s gotten better since the new chef has taken over. The Chef is the guy with the beard and tattoos. I sat at the “pizza bar” one evening and spoke at great lengths with him. Forgot his name though.

                      1. re: KCMOChef
                        a
                        Aaron Deacon Jun 26, 2008 02:08 PM

                        Cool, and thanks, I appreciate your insight. Sorry if I came off as defensive...that rant has been building for a long time. I'll definitely give Pizza Bella another shot.

                        I totally believe what you say about ingredient cost here. When I moved from Chicago, everyone was like "Oh, wow, KC must be so much cheaper." Well, in some ways, yes, but with as much as I like to eat, both in and out, it seems a lot more expensive. Good wine and good cheese is a lot pricier, and the quality is not as high, even at the consumer level. I could get 10 tortillas hot from the oven down the street for a quarter. I assume that must be true for restaurant buyers as well.

                        And the cheap restaurant eats are just harder to find here, esp. at the same quality. Thai Place is a nice enough restaurant, but I don't expect $12 plates at a Thai restaurant. Or maybe Thai Orchid in Mission is a better example, where dishes area a few bucks more than strip mall Thai joints in Chicago with infinitely better food. So yeah, 1924 would probably need to charge more to be better, but it's frustrating because in other places, at that price, they could be better than they are.

                        Again, not saying I expected KC food to be as good as Chicago, at all, and the food scene here is just fine...just that I didn't expect it to be more expensive.

                        I know part of, surely, is food costs are just rising so quickly now, but it was something I noticed even when I still lived up north and was just visiting.

                        1. re: KCMOChef
                          z
                          zataar Jun 26, 2008 03:35 PM

                          I agree with every word you said about crunching the numbers! I've done the same thing. I'm the chef at a catering company and believe me, it is a challenge to use the highest quality ingredients and charge what our clients will pay.

          2. j
            jdl98 Jun 18, 2008 12:38 PM

            Michael Smith's is close to where you'll be and is fantastic. check it out at http://www.michaelsmithkc.com/

            1. heatherkay Jun 20, 2008 08:20 AM

              Just FYI, Michael Smith's, 1924 Main, Bluestem, Philips Chophouse, Piropos are more what I would consider very nice places and definitely spendy for dinner. For example, Piropos is a regular proposal/anniversary stop. Azul is a little nightclubby. And neither Bluestem nor Piropos are really near Crown Center.

              All of these are excellent restaurants, however, and I know that Bluestem has a very reasonable lounge menu. I don't think you'd get a bad meal at any of them. But you might want to hit the internet and check out the menus before you decide.

              1. c
                Cogs Jun 21, 2008 05:43 PM

                La Bodega is great, especially if you can get a table on the sidewalk.

                Bluebird Bistro at 17th & Summit is a nice little spot for dinner.
                http://kansascitymenus.com/bluebirdbi...

                1. j
                  jacksonrabbit Jun 21, 2008 10:45 PM

                  Go South on Main to 32nd Street (a little under ten blocks I believe) and on the left side of the road you'll see Gates BBQ. Their ribs are the best in town. Before you order though, go to the side counter where they have the sauces laid out and try their three sauces. Some people find their original sauce a little spicy/tangy/hot. If you're on of those people just order whatever you get dry and add the mild sauce yourself.

                  For a little fancier bbq and if you want a sit-down place you can go to Fiorella Jackstack BBQ which is located in the Freighthouse District off of 22nd street (it's a little tricky to find so you might want to get directions from the hotel). They have decent burnt ends and their sides are very good- especially the cheesy bake.

                  Next door is Lidia's which has the best Sunday brunch in town. Pricey at $22 per person but worth it for a last hoorah. Avoid for dinner though which is also pricey but not as fullfilling or as rich as the brunch.

                  1. l
                    LR4KSU Jun 25, 2008 01:36 PM

                    I live in Topeka, but I often travel to KC to dine. Some of my favorites for BBQ are the Fiorella JackStack BBQ (There's one on 95th), KC Masterpiece (110th & Metcalf) , Zarda BBQ and Smokehouse BBQ as well as the previously mentioned Gates BBQ.

                    We also enjoy the Melting Pot (fondue place) on the Country Club Plaza.

                    There's also a great little Italian place called Cupini's close to the KU Med Center that is cheap and good. Great desserts as well.

                    Enjoy KC! It's a great town!

                    7 Replies
                    1. re: LR4KSU
                      chinkymonkey Jun 26, 2008 01:49 PM

                      I would not recommend any of Dalzell's restaurants. I know for a fact that he does not use fresh ingredients. He uses CANNED stock from Sysco. Everything he uses is from frozen, processed, canned crap. The greenbeans you can get at Costco. Why would you buy overpriced, overhyped poor quality food? I don't want to be rude, but I've tried all of his places, mediocre at best.

                      1. re: chinkymonkey
                        d
                        dodgerfoodie Jul 4, 2008 09:28 AM

                        I dont know where you are getting your information from but I happen to know for a FACT that you are wrong about Dalzell not using fresh. All of the soup sold at Souperman is made at 1924 and canned stock is never used there. I dont know if some of you people are just scorned ex employees with a grudge but people are on here looking for real advice on where to dine in Kansas City and I would feel extremely comfortable recommending any one of his four places. If you have a problem with the person, say so, dont take it out on your opinion of his food.

                        1. re: dodgerfoodie
                          j
                          JWest Jul 5, 2008 06:45 PM

                          I'll have to agree with dodgerfoodie on this.

                          For you "foodies" who think it's your duty to go on these forums to be super critical about a chef's dream (in this particular case, Rob Dalzell's restaurants) and use exaggerated descriptors such as "swimming in olive oil" or "Everything he uses is frozen, processed, canned crap." is absolutely absurd. Stop going into places with a mindset that you are going to be typing in a review on chowhound as soon as you get home and just eat, relax, and just take it for what it is. I'm not saying stop talking about restaurants, it's good that you all are but I think it's extremely rude to be tearing places a part owned by good people like Rob Dalzell.

                          1. re: JWest
                            a
                            Aaron Deacon Jul 6, 2008 09:35 PM

                            Hey, man, I appreciate your sticking up for other chef's joints but I don't appreciate the mischaracterization of my opinions. I have no axe to grind about Rob Dalzell, or his dream. "Swimming in olive oil" may be figurative, if the pizza needs to have fins or flippers in order to use that phrase, but there was a big puddle of olive oil around our pie. A lot of olive oil. I don't see the point in trying to dispute that. Perfectly fair to say, "Huh, I don't find the pizza too oily at all" or "There's more oil than other places but I didn't find it excessive"...cool by me, different strokes. I stand by my statement.

                            As for the processed/canned stuff...again, I'm just describing what I tasted. (And I claim no insider knowledge about what is actually used.) I don't taste the freshness or the home-cookedness or the love. My wife thinks it's silly how much time I've spent on food boards, and she was the one who thought her entree at 1924 Main tasted like a giant fish stick. We both thought it was really bad.

                            With these four places in particular, the only reason for the length and vehemence of my post above was in direct proportion to the unquenchable fire that seems to burn in this town for Dalzell's joints. And I recognize people are enthusiastic because he's no doubt a stand-up guy who cares about downtown and KC, has a dream, and is really getting after it. Bully for him, and I wish him well, I really do.

                            But part of the point here is looking past the hype, and as a relative newcomer to town, I find the amount of love doled out on these restaurants way out of proportion to the quality of the food.

                            1. re: Aaron Deacon
                              chinkymonkey Jul 7, 2008 11:41 AM

                              There are many, many restaurants in KC that I love. I can voice my opinion on how I think the quality is at a place, even though now that I look at it, some of the comments posted are kind of mean.

                              1. re: chinkymonkey
                                kcbluelion Jul 7, 2008 12:29 PM

                                Ya know, I've been a reader but not a poster for a while to these boards. In reading Aaron's original post, I didn't think it was necessarily mean-spirited. Critical yes. Mean no.

                                I made a post about one of the restaurants in the Power and light district today and I have to say that I agree with most people in that cardboard cutout restaurants just don't hit that level of authenticity and freshness that some of the local, non-corporate chains can aspire to. Aspire is the key word. Sometimes circumstance limits the chef's creativity and/or ability to make spot on, authentic foods.

                                As far as Chef Dalzell's methods and vision, that's not something I think any of us can speak to unless we get it from the horse's mouth (and I don't expect him to respond - that would mean his life's about as exciting as mine).

                                Frankly, I can probably find more wrong with some of the restaurants here in town than right, but expressing those opinions is something I like to think that I do with restraint and only after consideration of what the chef or restaurant's perception of that critique may be. Plus, I'm no chef and I'm sure my palate isn't as refined as I like to think it is.

                                However, it's my opinion.

                                1. re: kcbluelion
                                  a
                                  Aaron Deacon Jul 7, 2008 07:57 PM

                                  FYI, there was quite a bit from the horse's mouth in a recent Pitch:

                                  http://www.pitch.com/2008-03-13/news/...

                                  I appreciate your defense on the "mean" accusation. I've been somewhat conflicted about posting anything because I have a great deal of respect, from what I've seen, tasted, and read, for Dalzell as a restaurateur, entrepeneur, and by all accounts, very hard worker. I've seen him hard at work at his restaurants. Tireless, motivated, dedicated, etc.

                                  I don't think the food at the restaurants is all that good, though, and it leaves me feeling very conflicted.

                    2. r
                      rubinow Jun 27, 2008 11:28 AM

                      Pot Pie has great stuff.

                      -----
                      pot pie
                      kansas city, mo, kansas city, mo

                      5 Replies
                      1. re: rubinow
                        pie Jul 5, 2008 07:08 PM

                        I love Pot Pie!!!!

                        1. re: pie
                          r
                          rubinow Jul 7, 2008 08:17 AM

                          Full disclosure: my friend owns that place and is the chef. It's a great place, though.

                          1. re: rubinow
                            a
                            Aaron Deacon Jul 7, 2008 09:17 AM

                            I heard it was for sale...any truth to that?

                            1. re: Aaron Deacon
                              pie Jul 7, 2008 04:00 PM

                              WHAT??!!!

                              1. re: pie
                                a
                                Aaron Deacon Jul 7, 2008 07:49 PM

                                Sorry for the alarm...very little substantiation to the rumor, an offhand comment on the KCRag forum.

                                People were discussing restaurants for sale here:
                                http://www.blockandco.com/businesses/...

                                And I think someone speculated one was Pot Pie. I can't figure out which it would be, but I've never been there.

                                Kind of a fun site to poke around.

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