529765 Mon Jun 16 19:41:14 -0700 2008 28 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 3782859 This tangent was split from the Los Angeles board. If you're looking for sushi in Orange County, please respond on this thread: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/527034 * * * * * * * * * Please educate me. I love just about everything I've had at Bluefin (and I've been there many times). I haven't a clue what you mean by edo style vs. fusion style sushi? Thanks! Sun Jun 15 17:10:11 -0700 2008 171170 josephnl 1 3783252 Think of it as traditional vs. modern. Traditional being very simple style sushi with a piece of fish on hand formed rice or a simple hand roll. Where's fusion is modern and blending a lot of non-traditional ingredients such as various hot sauces, western ingredients, funky names, etc. A good example of this would be a "Philly Roll" or the use of Foie Gras. I plan on checking out Sushi Wasabi or one of those other places later this month. Sun Jun 15 20:21:17 -0700 2008 3782859 198871 martiniman 1 3783254 I am sure other Chowhounds can be more specific, but I was referring to the sushi that is very simply raw fish on seasoned rice or nigiri style. Sun Jun 15 20:21:59 -0700 2008 3782859 10815 cdmedici 2 3783448 Now I'm really confused with all these terms. I think I get it that California, Orange County or Rainbow rolls are modern or "fusion style" sushi...but now I don't know if simply raw fish on rice with perhaps a touch of wasabi is...traditional sushi or edo style or nigiri style....or what. What do these terms mean??? Sun Jun 15 22:44:14 -0700 2008 3783254 171170 josephnl 3 3786086 My understanding of it (and I could be wrong) is that Edo style sushi is traditional style sushi that became popular in Tokyo. Nigiri sushi can be Edo style but not all Nigiri could be considered Edo style. I found this on a sushi supplier/consulting company's website. "In eighteenth century, a chef named Yohei decided to serve sushi in somewhat in its present form. It became very popular and emerged in to two different styles. One of them was Kansai style, from the city of Osaka in the Kansai region, and the other called Edo style, from Tokyo, which was then called Edo. The Kansai style sushi consisted seasoned rice mixed with other ingredients, producing decorative packages, and it has more history and techniques to it comparing to the Edo style sushi. Edo style sushi is nigiri sushi (often referred to as Edomae-sushi), which feature small amount of seafood on a seasoned rice. Kansai region's ornamental sushi is popular, but foreigners are more familiar with the nigiri sushi." http://www.sushivan.com/b2c/sh/sh1.asp Mon Jun 16 18:29:06 -0700 2008 3783448 10815 cdmedici 1 3786549 Well, for me "traditional vs modern" and "Edo style vs fusion style" are similar in meaning, if not exactly the same. But basically, I would take both meanings to ask what the difference is between sushi that fits into the long tradition of Japanese cooking and sushi that you find in any American "sushi bar" today. Traditional Japanese sushi, whether Edo or Kansai, will never contain cream cheese or avacado or anything else that isn't part of the traditional Japanese diet. Neither the Japanese nor Chinese developed cheese or any other dairy product simply because the vast majority of both of those populations are lactose intolerant. Avacados are New World foods, and Japan was only open to Western Trade for a relatively short period in the era of shoguns before westerners (specifically Portuguese and Spanish) were banned for creating discension. Even after trade was reestablished in the late 19th century, strange foods were not high on the Japanese import list. That mind-set did not appear in Japan until post World War II. In other words, you don't eat what you don't know about. I don't know of any surviving wholly traditional (Edo) sushi bars in the U.S. Indeed, there may not be a whole bunch left in Japan. But you can get Edo style traditional nigiri in most sushi bars if you know what you're looking for. And nigiri sushi is not restricted to rice with a bit of sashimi on top. Nigiri sushi even has some tradition "meatless" types that use egg and a few other things. It may also be topped with roe or cooked fish. But there are other types of traditional Edo sushi in addition to nigiri. Traditional sushi rice is "seasoned' with vinegar, fanned like mad while tossing to promote a shine, then a bit of (real) wasabi is added to the top of the formed rice before the topping is put in place. Today I'm finding more and more sushi bars where more than vinegar and wasabi are used to season the rice, and I've even had sushi where the rice grains were just too damn long to be "real" sushi rice. "Modern" sushi is fusion sushi. Cream cheese, avacado, occasionally tomato. Whatever. While I don't have a problem with fusion per se, the thing I do hate about fusion cooking is that once it gets its foot in the door with tradional foods of any ethnicity, then just as has happened with sushi, it becomes very difficult for "purists" to find the "real thing." I love traditional sushi. Philadelphia roll just plain ticks me off! Cream cheese? Yeah. Fits right in with traditional Edo cream of tomato soup. NOT! Mon Jun 16 22:04:17 -0700 2008 3782859 112096 Caroline1 2 3786555 Could you please clarify the difference(s), if any, between Edo (traditional) sushi and the other terms you use, Kansai sushi and Nigiri sushi? I love sushi, but am now aware that there is a lot for me to learn! Thanks! Mon Jun 16 22:16:04 -0700 2008 3786549 171170 josephnl 3 3786634 It's called "Edo mae" zushi, not "Edo". Edo-mae refers to sushi from Tokyo Bay (formally called Edo Bay). Traditionally it means the fish has been preserved or treated in some manner before serving. These days, it seems to have taken on a vernacular meaning of just simply a nice way of saying "nigiri-zushi". Nigiri are the hand molded sushi bundles topped with fish or egg or whatever. "Maki-zushi" refers to sushi in rolled nori. Te-maki-zushi are those little cone maki-zushi also made with nori. "Chirashi-zushi" are bowls of vinegared rice topped with raw seafood, egg, and other items. The type of sushi from Kansai is called "oishi-zushi" which is pressed preserved fish on vinegared rice. There might be more to it. Maybe someone else knows... When it comes to sushi, obviously preserved fish are falling out of favor for fresh raw ingredients. So I'm not sure what the value of saying "Edo-Mae Sushi" really means, but you see it all over Japan. I'm going to ask a chef the next time I'm in Tokyo. In the U.S., seems like it can be a clear way of differentiating "traditional sushi" from the avocado-cream cheese-tempura-mayonnaise-roll-a-ma-bob-maki-rolls sold at the red lantern strip mall joints. Mon Jun 16 23:59:11 -0700 2008 3786555 10903 Silverjay 4 3787854 I've had sushi from a place that professed to have a strong Osaka influence, and noticed that the rice was a little different -- the grains a tiny shade harder and more individualized. Was wondering if this is a characteristic of that region, as I recently had sushi at another place that also had rice in this manner and I noticed that this place also had Kansai style pressed sushi on their menu. Hope to hear someone chime in on this. Tue Jun 17 10:50:12 -0700 2008 3786634 10076 limster 5 3788328 My experience with oshi-zushi is limited, but the times I've had it the rice tends to be mushier and melding together sinced it has been pressed and usually stored somewhat. My impression of oshi-zushi is as a gift counter item rather than a sit down sushi counter item, but I don't know for sure. Don't know about Osakan/Kansai sushi-ya nigiri prepartions either. I really can't imagine any preferences toward grainier shari. You might want to start a new thread and post a pointer on the Japan board. There are regulars living in Kansai who can help. Tue Jun 17 12:56:55 -0700 2008 3787854 10903 Silverjay 3 3786643 My understanding of the term "Edo mae" sushi is that it refers to both a regional as well as a period style of sushi developed in Edo, the name for Tokyo pre-1870. As nigiri-sushi, or hand-pressed sushi, developed in Edo, that is one part of Edo mae sushi. However not all nigiri-sushi is Edo mae sushi. To be Edo mae sushi one also needs to use ingredients that were readily available in old Edo, as well use the methods available during that time. So this limits the ingredients to that available principally from what is now called Tokyo Bay. ("mae" in Edo mae means "in front of", which can be taken to mean the sushi created in front of Tokyo (Edo) Bay.) As this was well before the advent of modern refrigeration, almost all tane (ingredients) prepared for Edo mae sushi were either cooked, pickled, or marinated in some way as to preserve their keeping qualities. Classic examples of what would qualify would be Kohada, or gizzard shad. Others would include items such as Saba, or mackerel, and Anago, or salt-water eel. Kohada and Saba is marinated, while Anago is cooked. Maguro (tuna) would be Edo mae only if it has been marinated in shoyu (soy sauce), but not Edo mae if prepared as is. So that's my understanding of Edo mae sushi. It's the intersection between a style (nigiri, or hand-formed sushi), with ingredients (ingredients available in Edo during that time), and methods of preparation (items that have been prepared in order to keep their viability without refrigeration). If either of these are missing, it's not Edo mae sushi. May I suggest that whether or not a sushi bar does Edo mae or not is only important in one arena: only a traditional and well-trained sushi chef will know all of the intricate aspects of ingredient preparation that is needed to truly deliver Edo mae sushi made from the raw ingredients. Too many sushi chefs in the U.S. are relying on their fish distributors to provide items that are pre-filleted, pre-portioned, or pre-seasoned, and are unable to create their own traditional sauces or marinades. (Ask your favorite sushi chef when was the last time that he had filleted a whole, fresh eel, if ever. The answer is sure to surprise many.) Tue Jun 17 00:14:43 -0700 2008 3786555 20300 cgfan 4 3786984 Colloquially, in Japan these days, I've never really seen "Edo-mae" refer to the historical or classical interpretation of the term. Shops that use "Edo-mae" in their names do not limit themselves to the neta from the bay and I'm not really sure I've seen a difference between shops that do not use the term. I think it has more or less taken on a broader marketing meaning to the effect of appealing to sushi's origins rather than a specific style. Though, perhaps those shops may have chefs with a particular training. The local sushi shop in my old neighborhood in Tokyo used Edo-mae in its name and it was no different than any other sushi shop I've been to. Tue Jun 17 06:48:13 -0700 2008 3786643 10903 Silverjay 5 3787717 I too agree that now the term Edo mae is used more to elicit a certain, and imprecise, feeling of nostalgia for a time long past. That is why I hinted that the term itself is not very meaningful these days, given its ill-defined use. On a similar vein I fret the disappearance of traditional training of sushi chefs, or for that matter in many of the traditional Japanese trades, as less and less people are interested in the lengthy apprenticeships. How many crafts are in danger of being lost in just only this current generation? And all part of a greater trend such as the now wholly ingrained use of English equivalents for native (food and other) words such as gyunyu (now miruku - milk) and kudamono (now furuutsu - fruit). I recall a trip to Japan where my mother's use of a few now archaic Japanese words resulted in an interesting but somewhat poignant discussion about their replacement with their English equivalents. Tue Jun 17 10:19:05 -0700 2008 3786984 20300 cgfan 6 3789634 Yes, hopefully the culinary boom that still continues in Japan will encourage young people to pick up trades and crafts. There is certainly many from the huge older generation that would love to teach. Regarding language, I have to admit to falling back on simply katakana-izing a word if I don't know the Japanese, but the invasion of foreign words is a popular lament these days for sure. I've actually got a boatload of humorous stories that are no doubt at the expense of people like your mom. At least Japanese words are entering the American culinary lexicon. So it's a two-way thing I believe. Tue Jun 17 21:19:21 -0700 2008 3787717 10903 Silverjay 3 3786698 For starters, read cdmedici's post above, including the link he provides. Then you can Google any word you want to know more about and come up with pages and pages of information. :-) Tue Jun 17 02:32:31 -0700 2008 3786555 112096 Caroline1 2 3786618 Disagree with some of your conjecture on Japan. Milk and cheese are very popular in Japan today. I'm not sure the lactose intolerance is the reason behind any lack of cheese development there. Probably has more to do with historical animal husbandry issues. Japanese simply did not raise dairy cattle until relatively recently. Nevertheless, popular cheese brands were around in the 1920's. And as with all things, food included, the 1868 Meiji Restoration generated intense interest in all things foreign that lasted well into the 20th century and, some would argue, has not abated. Way before WWII, "youshoku", a whole cuisine based on foreign ingredients and techniques (mostly French) had already become a part of the Japanese diet- including hybrid dishes. Most avocados you get in Japan these days are Mexican grown Hass, which probably says more about cargo ships and the global economy than mind-sets and insularity. While there are non-seafood items, Japanese primarily consider sushi a simple cuisine that imparts freshness, seasonality, a and certain clarity in taste and texture that the ocean yields. These are all pretty much things that most Americans can not get their head- or tongues- around. So sushi here has morphed into creativity, flavor combinations, and mixing of textures. I'm assuming a fair amount of sushi restaurants also play on diner's desire for the exotic and probably some measure of ignorance, as they serve simply whatever they want and call it sushi. Mon Jun 16 23:32:47 -0700 2008 3786549 10903 Silverjay 3 3786694 Where did I say I was offering conjecture? In one of my metriculations I signed up for a graduate class in "Oriental Philosophy." Turned out not to be a philosophy course but a cultural history of Japan, with interesting focus on traditional Japanese food, the chanoyu and ikebana. That, plus I've always had close firendships with native Japanese as well as Japanese Americans, and that predates WWII. As an anthropology/archaeology major, I was curious why native "far east" ( as opposed to the broader "Asian" category) cultures did not have any native cheeses in the long history of those countries. It is because they are lactose intolerant. Here's a bit of information on lactose intolerance in several ethnic groups: http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/adapt_5.htm How many cultures develop foods that make them sick? Prior to World War II, there were only two periods when western food was introduced to Japan directly by westerners. The first was during the "Black Ships" trade era of the 16th Century (featured in James Clavel's novel, "Shogun"). The Portuguese and Dutch traders of this period were soon kicked out of Japan. Well, the Portuguese were sent packing. The Dutch were only sent packing as far as an island where they could continue restricted trade while being kept isolated from the general population. After this, during the following isolationist period that lasted approximately 280 years, Japanese culture became distilled and *very* Japanese. The biggest mark the Portuguese left on the Japanese diet was the introduction of fried foods, and without that relatively brief Portuguese influence, tempura would either be unknown or a recent newcomer. Everyone has their own definitions, but I don't consider tempura a "traditional" Japanese dish. Japan stayed isolated from the west by choice until Commodore Perry forced Japan to open to western trade in 1854. The opera "Madama Butterfly" is the best known western tale representing this period. While western food was known, it did not "fuse" with Japanese food as it has today. While the Meiji period did indeed embrace a lot of western food among the elite class, it was not that well known among the general population until movies from the west were introduced. For whatever reason, many historians and researchers completely ignore the immense impact of western film on Japanese culture. For example, until the introduction of Hollywood movies in the 1920s, romantic kissing was unknown in Japan. The escapist post-Wall-Street-crash movies of the early 1930s were created as fantasies for Great Depression numbed Americans (featuring butlers, changing clothes ten or twelve times a day, formal dining, French cuisine, champagne and caviar) but were understood by the Japanese (and much of the rest of the world) as accurate representations of American life. Movies played an important, if little recgonized role in Japanese interest in French cuisine. However, until Japan lost World War II, after which the Emperor was officially downgraded from living god to human being, and the idea of democracy was imposed on Japan by its first foreign occupation in cultural memory, overall the food of Japan remained markedly "Japanese." After World War II, the entire country, ruling class to peasant class, went in search of a redefined Japanese national identity. Food was a major way to investigate the new world of opportunites. In the 1990's, at the height of Japan's economic boom, the Japanese preoccupation with foods of the world -- the pricier the better -- was a viibrant national pursuit. It was during that period that expense account culture ran rampant, "shoe box" commuter hotels were introduced in Tokyo, and "water bars" were major fads. Along with 100 year home mortgages (you had to have fairly young children, they were also interviewed and their grades reviewed). At that time, creative entrepreneurs capture icebergs in the far north Pacific, towed them back to Japan with tugboats, and sold the "million year old water" for exhorbitant sums per glass. And went nuts over pizza. super exotic/super expensive sushi was a status symbol. The Japanese appetitie for new and exotic seemed insatiable. Then the Japanese economy collapsed, but it's been making a steady come back ever since. Today it's not that unusual for a group of Japanese "expense account executives" to charter a jet to have a non-traditional sushi orgy in L.A. (Boys and their toys.) Anyway, my point is that if western food had some popularity in Japan prior to World War II, after the war it became a "feeding frenzy," if you like puns. Here's another website that gives a pretty accurate, if brief, overview of the Japanese diet over time. http://asiarecipe.com/japeathistory.html In the overall picture of the daily Japanese diet, sushi plays a limited role. I'm trying to think of an American equivalent on both frequency and approach, and about the closest thing I can come up with is a really great hot dog wagon among the New York cogniscenti. It's something special you just gotta have every now and then, it provokes a lot of arguing over how to eat it, but it ain't exactly "What's for dinner." Tue Jun 17 02:26:48 -0700 2008 3786618 112096 Caroline1 4 3787055 I appreciate that you've studied Japan and are interested in Japanese food, history, and culture, though comparing the sushi experience to a "really great hot dog wagon" certainly seems to betray that in some ways. However much of what you present in your post is wholly inaccurate, a generalization, a common misinterpratation, or a caricature of Japanese history, food culture, and contemporary dining habits, replete with excerpts of recent mythologized "bubble era" lore. As this topic has veered from the thread topic, I'm happy to elaborate on responses via email. Tue Jun 17 07:18:31 -0700 2008 3786694 10903 Silverjay 4 3787395 Studying "Oriental Philosophy" is quite different from eating (and living) in Japan. Sushi is not the equivalent of a "great hot dog wagon" (an oxymoron, btw). It's more like an expensive dinner out, at either a fancy restaurant or a hole-in-the-wall (for the foodies--grungy does not equal cheap in Japan). Also, the hotels you referred to as "shoeboxes" are capsule hotels, so-called because you actually sleep in a pod. Shoeboxes are the buildings that went up all over Tokyo during the bubble years. Although the "bubble" did "burst" in the 90s, the Japanese economy has never collapsed. Methinks you read too much and experience too little. Tue Jun 17 09:02:03 -0700 2008 3786694 55102 culprit 1 3789238 (To me) maki zushi and inari zushi, both without any sashimi are traditional (when we want sashimi, we eat it with hot gohan). Nigiri seems quite Japanese, and has become popular with hakujins. No idea how traditional. Sushi with avocado, cream cheese, or the like may taste good to some, but is certainly not traditional (unless it is now traditional US sushi). Tue Jun 17 17:59:19 -0700 2008 3782859 36661 Sam Fujisaka 1 3790034 Josephnl, this is for you. But I doubt it will make sushi taste any different. '-) Let me start by taking a short view of the very long history of "sushi." It is a highly evolved dish to be sure, but then what isn't? "Sushi" originated in China, as a simple but effective way of preserving fish. Raw fish was wrapped in a layer of cooked rice and allowed to "mature." In this form, the fish had a fairly long shelf life without refrigeration (which was handy, since there weren't many refrigerators around in the second century) and when eaten, the rice was thrown away but the fish wasn't. This method of fish preservation made its way to Japan around the seventh century. The Japanese, however, having a thing about not wasting things, began eating the rice and really liking it! Sushi, in that form, became popular. People would buy it, then take it home and age it a month or two before eating it. In this form, it was in no way a "fast" food! The old name for Tokyo (Edo) is most commonly associated with sushi because a very creative guy named Matsumoto Yoshiichi (probably called him "Yoshi-san" by family, or at least "Yoshi-chan" when he was little) who was in the business of selling sushi. At some point, he decided to try something new so the sushi didn't have to be aged months before it could be eaten. He tried substituting the juices and flavoring the fish spread through the rice as it aged with rice wine vinegar and omitting the aging process altogether. And people loved it! However, the fish was still embedded inside the rice. In the early 1800s, a guy named Hanaya Yohe was struck by a flash of economic and culinary genius. Why not make sushi a snack food for the busy people of Tokyo to grab and eat on the go? So instead of selling fish enrobed in rice, he formed cakes of rice and put a piece of fish on top, and so "nigiri" (finger) sushi came to be. Its popularity spread through Tokyo quickly, and as people came to the capital, they carried news of it back home with them, so it spread throughout Japan. Then with the disastrous "Great Kanto Earthquake" of 1923, thousands of people in Tokyo lost their homes and businesses to the quake, and with nothing to keep them there, moved to what they hoped would be safer territory. Many of them started sushi stands wherever they went, really ramping up the spread and popularity of sushi. What business had less overhead to start and more clamoring customers than sushi? The name "edoame" became firmly attached to this style of sushi because Edo was home to Hanay Yohe, but the massive number of refugees who opened sushi stalls throughout the country were also from Tokyo. With the U.S. occupation after World War Two, the American penchant for cleanliness (which every American of that time knew was "next to godliness") shut down the sushi street stalls in the name of hygiene. But it was not to be the end of sushi! The "stalls" just moved indoors. Initially as stand-up counters very much like the street stalls, but then stools were added, then tables to accommodate any passing occupation forces customers who weren't nimble enough to dine Japanese style. Because of the counter and stools, the occupation forces began calling the establishments "sushi bars" in English. I have no idea what the Japanese called them. As the Japanese economy recovered and gained momentum after the economic disaster of World War Two, sushi "bars" became more upscale, eventually turning plain old sushi into a fine dining experience. From the time sushi stalls moved indoors and customers began lingering to have seconds and more, hot green tea was the customary drink. It may well have been the "outside influences" of the occupation forces that brought in booze to wash down the rice instead of tea. Specifically sake and Japanese beer. But many still prefer tea. Sushi was already a very "in demand" food when the Japanese "bubble economy" made its mark. It was a time of "over the top" everything, and wildly exotic and absorbitantly expensive sushi was no exception. While this has calmed quite a bit in the world of sushi, it's mark can still be felt. And as sushi has become a global phenomenon, it's "purity" has been compromised. But then in today's world, "fusion" is compromising everything. I live in fear of homogenization. If my memory is at all reliable at my age, I do believe I had my first sushi before WW II, at the home of a nisei girlfriend. Her father loved it, so her mother would make it for him. After World War II, when the Japanese American population was allowed (the great American shame) to return to their homes from the internment camps, in southern California a few small Japanese neighborhood restaurants offered sushi (if you asked for it). The Japanese community knew who and where they were, but kids like me had to have connections. That, plus it wasn't unusual for the owners not to speak English, so I had to go with friends who spoke Japanese. By the 60's, Japanese neighborhood restaurants that also served sushi were becoming more and more common. But I don't recall sushi in any upscale Japanese restaurants of that era, or in the '50's, meaning San Diego and San Francisco, respectively. And I certainly never saw a "California role" or an avocado in sushi (or anything edible and Japanese) during those decades. I am a strong traditionalist when it comes to sushi. For what I call "real" sushi, I am taking a real risk if I try to find it today outside my own kitchen. The rice has to be shiny with the look of seed pearls, and to get that you either have to be very fast and well coordinated, or you have to have help because the hot rice has to be fanned furiously with a paper fan and tossed to separate the grains as the rice vinegar is sprinkled in to add the shine. It's been a very long time since I've seen great rice from a sushi bar. Then, depending on what the topping will be, a "smear" of just the right amount of wasabi has to top the rice before the final topping is put in place. Now, to explain my analogy of sushi and hot dogs... There was a time, even within my own lifetime, when sushi was a very informal, out-of-hand food to eat on the go. Just like NYC hot dogs from a cart. While sushi in Japan, was pushed indoors in the latter 1940's, the friendliness and banter between the chef/owner and diners is still there when regular customers enter a sushi bar, most especially when the sushi chef and clients are Japanese. Another strong similarity is that both "menus" are bound by a single primary ingredient that is in everything served; in the case of sushi by rice, in the case of hot dogs by "sausages." And the clients of both restaurants argue vehemently about what's the "right" way their favorite food should be cooked, dressed, presented, and eaten. Is it still sushi if it's made with medium or long grain rice? What if the rice is seasoned with more than rice vinegar and wasabi? Is avocado and cream cheese acceptable? Hot dog aficionados argue bitterly about whether the wiener is best when steamed or boiled, natural or artificial or no casing,. Mustard? Ketchup? Sauerkraut? Tomato? Pickles of pickle relish? The discussions in both cases can get hot. If anyone still thinks the comparison is unreasonable, toss some financial backing my way and I'll open a "Haute Dog" palace that will totally amaze you. Think of the mind blowing variety of ingredients that can be pumped into a natural casing, set in a "foodscaped" bun, then served on an exquisite piece of china for an exquisite price! On the other hand, keep your money. I've had lots of invitations to work as a chef, but I absolutely hate doing anything the same way twice. But if anybody wants to borrow my idea, you owe me royalties! Meanwhile, josephnl, just go on relishing your sushi. You don't have to know all about something to know it tastes great and you like it. Enjoy! Wed Jun 18 05:54:43 -0700 2008 3782859 112096 Caroline1 2 3790625 I would like to correct some inaccuracies and make some additions based on research from Japanese websites: #- Regarding the usage of “-san” and “-chan”, family members do not affix “-san” to first names when speaking among themselves. And “-chan” is more often used as a term of affection for females. “-kun” is the more common term for males. #- The term “Edo-mae” literally means “in front of Edo” and refers to Edo Bay (today called Tokyo Bay). Edo-mae sushi referred (originally) to the seafood that came from Tokyo Bay- a la ebi, kohada, anago, etc. #- Most sushi available during the mid-1800’s was not aged months, but it was not served raw. Most items were prepared in some manner, either pickling in vinegar, marinating in soy sauce and sake, or cooked. The process of preparing sushi was called “shigoto” which literally means “work”. Many of the stalls that sold sushi at this time outsourced this work so that sushi was sort of manufactured, in a way. Also, according to Japanese sources, “maguro tsuke” which is marinated akami tuna, was a popular item. It still is today of course. #- Hanaya Yohei is credited as the first to introduce “nigiri” style sushi. “Nigiri” means “hand pressed” or “hand molded”. Prior to “nigiri” most sushi was wrapped in various types of leaves or pressed in boxes. The introduction of raw items does not appear until at least 1897 with the advent of refrigeration techniques. While ice was available prior to this, it was mostly for the benefit of Shogun and royalty, obviously out of reach for sushi’s early proletariat customer base at street stalls. By the late 1800’s, the sushi scene already had split to reflect different classes. Most could buy from street stalls, but individual shops that you entered and sat in were sprouting up. Since most items were prepared, customers sat on tatami mats in traditional Japanese practice, ate at tables as they were served. #- The Great Kanto Earthquake in the 20th century is unlikely to have had any effect on the diffusion of Edo-mae sushi throughout Japan as it had already become popular in Osaka, Nagoya, and other parts of the country by the mid-19th century. #- The most dramatic effect on the sushi business in post-WWII Japan was the rationing of rice. The sushi chef association in Tokyo negotiated to set maximum amounts used and determined standard measurements for quantities regarding how much rice should be used to make how many pieces of nigiri. As raw ingredients became more popular, the government did shut down “yatai” or “street stall” sushi operations. There’s no record that this was initiated by U.S. occupied forces (It’s not mentioned in John Dower’s excellent book on the occupation called “Embracing Defeat”.) #- Fixed sushi shops already existed in Japan, but the closing of the streets stalls managed to raise the prestige of these shops and elevated sushi to a more expensive dining option. As noted before, existing shops provided tatami mat style seating. Counter style dining is popular in all sorts of Japanese food genre where food is prepared on the spot, so it wouldn’t be unusual that as sushi moved to raw ingredients that counter dining would emerge. The effect of American Occupation forces on the sushi culture/economy was most likely minimal to non-existent. Even in the 21st century, U.S. service people and their families in Japan are still known in the expat community for a certain amount of lack of adventurousness when it comes to dining. And I doubt Americans had any effect on alcohol consumption habits at sushi bars. The Japanese have always had a vigorous alcohol drinking culture long before the war. # I’ve never seen anyone argue at a sushi restaurant in Japan or the U.S. and I’ve never heard of sushi made from medium or long grained rice. It’s certainly not something people would argue about. The only place people argue about sushi is Chowhound. #- Most of the New York City hot dog vendors these days serve the same sausage from the same producer. There’s not a debate over which vendor is better than any other as they pretty much are all the same. In addition: The idea that sushi in the Japanese diet is a limited role is wholly inaccurate, as sushi has made a populist come back in the last 20 years. There are “revolving” sushi restaurants, sushi chain restaurants, fast food pick-up sushi joints, sushi counters at train stations. You can even pick up nigiri, inari, or maki sushi at 7-11 convenience stores. Fine dining sushi might be rare, but sushi is everywhere in Japan. Wed Jun 18 08:53:26 -0700 2008 3790034 10903 Silverjay 3 3791752 Nigiri--1897! No wonder I don't consider it traditional. It is new. Wed Jun 18 13:14:34 -0700 2008 3790625 36661 Sam Fujisaka 4 3791908 Clarification Sammy- Nigiri started in the first couple of decades of the 19th century. It was only after refridgeration and freezing that raw seafood neta proliferated. Wed Jun 18 13:46:42 -0700 2008 3791752 10903 Silverjay 5 3791940 Thanks, Silverjay, but still new! We (our tribe of throwbacks) still think of sushi as maki with about 8 different traditional ingredients inside or inari. Plus nothing is better than cold sashimi and HOT fresh gohan! Wed Jun 18 13:54:02 -0700 2008 3791908 36661 Sam Fujisaka 6 3792072 While nori for makisushi has been around for a long time, it was only after 1949, when nori farming really began as it was finally discovered how laver seaweed actually grew. Nori then became commonplace, instead of a luxury food that it had been previously. So the common makisushi is even newer than nigiri sushi. Wed Jun 18 14:37:41 -0700 2008 3791940 10509 E Eto 7 3792129 And only 2 years after Edo was renamed Tokyo cream cheese was invented, thus paving the way for the California Roll almost 100 years later. >>> duck! <<< :-) Wed Jun 18 14:58:13 -0700 2008 3792072 20300 cgfan 6 3792075 Yes there is...sashimi, gohan, and a BEER. Wed Jun 18 14:38:21 -0700 2008 3791940 13700 ricepad 7 3793032 As my good friend once said- "There's nothing like raw fish and beer together". A simple, delectable, refreshing truism if I've ever heard one. Wed Jun 18 20:25:24 -0700 2008 3792075 10903 Silverjay