What's so great about Schwartz's?

[maclock]

At the risk of incurring the wrath of many Chowhounders, I feel compelled to ask this question.

I have tried smoked meat sandwiches at several Montreal places. I used to rather enjoy Ben's (now closed) and Reuben's, as well as Green Spot (near Atwater Market) and Nouveau Système (which is, in turn, near Green Spot). The few times that I tried Schwartz's, I didn't much care for it. Montrealers and Montreal aficionados think I'm nuts, but there you go. Am I the only one who feels this way?

By the way, on an unrelated note, does Reuben's still offer its amazing breakfast deal? It was the best deal going downtown when I lived in Montreal many, many moons ago.

[shopgirl]

Well, I'm not a Montrealer, but I have tried Schwartz's. I didn't understand what all the hype was either. Once we took them "to go" and the grease ran right through the paper wrapping and the paper bag -- and we ordered lean!
I mean, it tastes fine -- maybe I'm spoiled living in the NJ/NY Metropolitan area where pastrami and corned beef abound, but (sorry 'hounds) I didn't see anything great about it, neither did my husband.

[MickFlanagen]

For me, as much as I love the sandwiches (and I love them a lot) is the atmosphere. Ben's certainly didn't have it during its last years, but Schwartz's is always bustling and thats definitely part of the experience.

and for th record, no matter where you go a lean smoke meat sandwich doesn't count as a smoke meat sandwich in my books.

[mrbozo]

The flavour is in the fat. That said, although I have no problem with Schwartz's I prefer The Main which is across the street.

[lagatta]

I hate the atmosphere. I did have a smoked meat there many years ago, but since I'm not much of a red meat eater - and especially not non-organic beef - I don't quite "get" the great appeal. They certainly smoke their wares well - I love getting smoked poultry there, in particular to make a pork-free sauerkraut for non-pork eaters - but I get it to takeaway. I certainly wouldn't queue to eat there, but to each his and her own, eh?

[riboflavinjoe]

It's just good, I like it, not much more complicated than that.

[hungryann]

"Am I the only one who feels this way?"
Nope, I am not into it either. I"ve had the medium fatty one and it still tastes dry and leathery to me, but the place has achieved cult-like status amongst many. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

[maclock]

Yup, that's how I recall it: dry and not so tender. It's what I found most surprising about smoked meat at Schwartz's.

[maisonbistro]

Well, besides it being a Montreal institution and packed with fond memories and blah blah blah, it's great smoked meat. I agree that a lean smoked meat isn't a Schwartz's sandwich. You need the fries, the cherry cola and a pickle - and to me you're in heaven. Not fine dining heaven, not chi chi heaven, but I would be hard pressed to find better meat with yellow mustard on rye bread anywhere. I will defend them to the death. It's just good eats.

Ben's didn't serve a decent anything for a long time before their doors got shut. Not even in the same league.

[emerilcantcook]

It is an obscene amount of really good and fatty meat (fat is half the point) stuffed between mediocre rye bread (in a sweet comforting Wonderbread way); and you eat it with very well made fries and something sugary. This is an epitomic example of what "most" meat eaters define as comfort food. But it isn't something more complex than that, and some people indeed have other definitions of comfort food. For me, it is pleasure, especially after a long day of working, to drop by at late hours and get a sandwich and make it my dinner, preferably while watching really bad TV.

But yeah, waiting on the line for an hour to get it, I am not going to do it. But I live close by and can do a take out or stop by during non touristy hours. But perhaps if I were visiting, maybe?

[lagatta]

I just can't see the sugary drink thing with meat or any savoury dish. No, the drink needn't contain alcohol, but if not it should be good bubbly water or with the foods of some cultures, good tea.

As I said, they smoke things really well. Love their smoked chicken and other poultry.

[chrispygrapes]

Their pickles are AMAZING!
I'm a Veg so I can't comment on their sandwiches, but I would drive the 6 hours to Montreal just for one of those pickles

[porker]

I think its a blend of factors.
Its a very different style of smoked meat than say Green Spot or Rubens. I think Schwartz' smoking process does have a drying effect. Most other places simply use pre-made smoked meat.
Does this make one 'bad' or one 'better'? I don't think so, its more of a personal taste.

Tradition probably has a lot to do with it as well. There are many whose grandparents started bringing their parents who brought them who will bring their kids ets etc.
So its not JUST the food, but "I've been coming here since I was 4 years old with my granddad" thing.
I assume that if you're 'weened' on this style of smoked meat (been going there since you were 4 years old) it would be your measuring stick, thinking that other styles are not 'true' smoked meat...

Me? I felt like the OP on my first try; "why is the meat so dry?" (I liked the Dunn's style). I returned several times and it grew on me. I love it there now. I won't wait in a line longer than 4 or 6 people, though...
I think Abbe's purposely strives for the Schwartz' style (products, not necessarily service or 'ambience') to attract the same customers.

[SnackHappy]

The industrial stuff you find in most delis is injected with phosphates which make it swell up with water. It's a cheap way of getting more volume from less meat. It's what gives it that horrible wet and jello-like cheap ham texture. I guess some people have forgotten what cured meat is supposed to taste like. Personally, I prefer the texture of real meat, but there's no accounting for taste.

[rcianci]

Have to agree with you SnackHappy. I love a properly prepared brisket. Reminds me of the story of the food manufacturer who tried to make their ketchup taste more like tomatoes. It didn't sell. People preferred that burnt, metallic, "authentic" ketchup flavor.

[bomobob]

For me, the atmosphere is more legend than anything else, and although I do like the elbow-to-elbow seating from time to time, it's more about the meat itself. We usually get takeout anyway.
I've lived here all my life, and no other smoked meat in this city comes even remotely close to Schwartz's. Back in the 60's, I used to go to Ben's quite often with my family, so the memories of the place, and the little toy they used to give out to every kid were always deeply ingrained. But Ben's smoked meat, though not bad, always just came up just slightly above the baseline of Reuben's, Dunn's, et al. Even in later years, I'm pretty sure it was the presumed cachet of eating in a place with the walls festooned with pictures of dead B-list celbrities even your parents never heard of watching over you that brought them in. All the rest can be easily categorized as thin, wet, even watery, and treading precariously close to tasteless. Dunn's made its mark by offering 600 lb sandwiches that were bigger than your head, but the meat was not much more than OK.
Schwartz's meat is like Nirvana. The flavouring is second to none. The texture of the brisket, the way it falls apart is iconic. "Lean" is a relatively new advent at Schwartz's, and is a bow to both tourists (indeed, insiders call lean the "tourist sandwich") and the sweet-n-low set. Real Montrealers don't even specify.
The Main is the only joint in the city that comes close, and the only other smoked meat I'd even consider eating. ("The city" technically does not include Smoked Meat Pete, which of course is the same as The Main, and just as good)

[BLM]

My guess, the majority of people who order 'lean' or 'extra-lean' smoked meat at Schwartz's are Montrealers(most tourists don't know you can specify). Maybe in the vast majority. That's my experience. If you don't specify, you get medium(that's too lean for me). I always specify medium-fat.

[BLM]

I just checked with the Schwartz's people this morning. By a slight majority, it's the tourists who usually order 'lean' or 'extra-lean.' Usually the Schwartz's servers/take-out people, do ask customers when they order smoked meat if they want lean or medium.

[moh]

"Schwartz's meat is like Nirvana. The flavouring is second to none. "

I would definitely agree with this statement. Yes, the Schwartz's meat may be a bit drier than other smoked meat, but there is a depth of flavour that sings out to my stomach. There is also the marvelous interplay between the meat, the fat, the mustard, the fries and the pickle that is so perfectly balanced between sweet, salty and sour, truly a symphony of flavours and textures. And so cheap! I can only eat at Schwartz's every 4-5 months, on account of I think it would kill me to eat there more often, but no other Montreal smoked meat experience even compares for me. Oh yeah, and no lean for me, thanks.

[bomobob]

My taste buds thank you for so eloquently putting into words what they've been experiencing for so many years.

[mrbozo]

Whoa, rein in your tartare bomobob! "Real Montrealers"? I was born, raised and lived the first 30 years of my life in Montreal. Over the past 25 years I've been back for visits of various lengths at least twice a year. I'm here to tell you that I prefer The Main over Schwartz's. Note that I did not say Schwartz's is lousy, just that I prefer The Main (not just for the smoked meat but also their more varied and tasty sides).

You wouldn't happen to be a member of the Smoked Meat Police, would you? ;)

[emerilcantcook]

"The texture of the brisket, the way it falls apart is iconic."

Yep. I never realized what made me feel good about the meat, but I think there is definitely something about the texture. Some people find it stringy, but I find it almost delicate. As delicate as a hunk of meat could be...

[Smorgasbord]

There's just *something* about Schwartz's... to the point where on one trip to Montreal I couldn't fit it into my dining plans and had to have it for breakfast just to get it in there. Totally worth it, BTW. I also find the old grumpy male waitstaff funny and kind of central-casting-esque! Through the years I've tried a lot of the other smoked meat [Ben's, The Main, Dunn's, Reuben's, etc.] and the taste of Schwartz's lean smoked meat with greasy fries, pickle, and Cott's cherry cola is just it for me. Don't even get me started on the sad state of smoked meat in Toronto- so the Belle Province pilgrimmage is a summer ritual for my SO and me. I've actually teared up eating a sandwich from Schwartz's, b/c I had been anticipating it all year and it more than lived up to the memory of it from the summer before! [hmm, that seemed less sad in my head before I typed it out ;-)]

[mutant4]

Every other delicatessen, not to mention restaurant, in the entire country/continent/world has changed, compromised, sold out, sold up, expanded, and lost focus of their original intention over the years. Schwartz's has not. They've stayed stubbornly true to the original formula and that's the reason why it is so universally respected.

[Xiao Yang]

The smoked meat sandwich experience that can be spoken of is not the true smoked meat sandwich experience.

-- Laozi

[mrbozo]

To mix cultures even further: Umami, baby !

[meinNYC]

They don't serve knishes... a veritable culinary crime.

[bomobob]

And Yonah Schimmel doesn't serve smoked meat. What's your point? :)

[mrbozo]

Order a smoked meat platter (medium fat) that comes with half a loaf of rye and a container of yellow mustard, and order a side of latkes with sour cream (go with applesauce if you must). At The Main. Bring someone else (even so you'll waddle out). Brisk, efficient, bilingue, fourth-generation waitresses. Food that truly schmecks.

[lagatta]

For a place to go and eat, I much, much prefer the Main. But I almost never eat red meat (and if I do, it is usuallly bison or deer - the one beefy exception being asados organised by Argentine or Chilean friends) so I can't judge the smoked meat at Schwartz per se. I do love their smoked poultry.

I suspect the waitresses may speak more than two languages.

But this kind of stuff becomes very subjective.

[afoodyear]

The club roll still kills me. I feel like a useless, bloated sack of !@#$ for about 2 days afterward, but THAT is one delicious sandwich. Smoked meat, stuffed chicken, salami and grilled tongue... SO good. Plus, their sours (coleslaw and pickle) are fantastic.

[munchiegirl]

You need to ask for the fatty sandwich. There's no point in eating smoked meat if it isn't fatty. You might as well eat a jerky sandwich. What makes Schwartz's great isn't just the meat it's the atmosphere, staff, history and of course, the pickles!

[porker]

This just as a side,
Few years ago, an elderly gent ('bout 75) sits at the counter next to us. Waiter nods and asks "The usual?" to which the new customer grunts "yep."
So here I am, placing a bit more mustard on the first half of my sandwich when the waiter returns with a plate for the ole guy.
I'm thinking a platter? Maybe an app of slaw or pickle?
Nope, a plate of sliced fat.
I don't mean fatty smoked meat, I mean seasoned, smoked fat, sliced off the brisket.
He enjoyed every bite, washed it down with a Cott, and left.

Don't get me wrong, I like fat, probably more than most, but I would just feel too guilty indulging THAT much. Not only that, but it appeared that he ate this regularly!
God bless him.

[emerilcantcook]

Well he lived up to 75, perhaps more; must have really good genes to pull that off.

In my hometown, there was this hole in the wall joint that sold little grilled skewers of meat or liver and some onion salad, some thick flatbread, nothing else. The people in the know also were aware that you can also order skewers of chargrilled fat, for really cheap; and for nil if it is a part of a big order. It was one of the best indulgences of life; smoky crispy half rendered fat. I was able to do it because I was in my early 20s and reasonably fit. And it was chargrilled after-all, so most of the fat was rendered. Now, smoked non-rendered fat is a totally different animal.

[tombombadillo]

Coming from New York, my first smoked meat sandwich was wonderful, and what is not mentioned is that most New Yorkers, after thier first tase are addicted! Going back to the restos all night!
With all due respect the appearance and atmosphere of Schwartz, compared to the Main and others was a little off putting, here in Brooklyn w have an enourmous Jewish community, almost half the borough and delis are an institution.
I dropped into th famous Schwartz after checking out and shopping at the amazing ethnic markets along St. Laurent, walking down from Laurier.
I asked simply for a smoked meat sandwich, not knowing the categories.
What most folks do is get take out, but this one by the time I returned to the suite, was dry, unlike the one from the delis I went to on St. Cats.
If you ever come to New York, check out Katz in the Bowery(now a trendy zone) like most New York delis the meat is taken from a special steammer, made just for corn beef and pastrami, so every sandwich is guaranteed to be moist, tender and flavorful.

[bomobob]

You know, both times I've eaten at Katz's, I enjoyed the meat, but couldn't help thinking, "Hmm...it's not Schwartz's. It's good, but it's not Schwartz's".
I'm convinced it has much more to with what you're used to and what you grew up eating, than anything objective. However, the pickle place around the corner totally rocks!

[maisonbistro]

Bottom line is, you can't "convince" someone to like Schwartz's. Either you do (for sentimental or other reasons) or you don't.

I love it, think it's the best smoked meat in the world, with the crappiest "ambience" which makes it even better in my book.

[lagatta]

Yes, that is the bottom line. While I don't necessarily like fancy places either - I love discovering cheap and cheerful "holes in the wall", I can't stand their ambiance.

Their excellent smoked poultry deserves to be better known - but for me it is takeaway - there is no shortage of parks (including Mont-Royal and Parc Lafontaine) nearby, and it is great at home (or hotel room) in the wintertime.

[bomobob]

Almost always takeway, and sitting on that little plank across the street outside Berson, watching the world go by. NOTHING says summer in Montreal to me more.

[porker]

We make food pilgramages to NY about 4 times per year (just returned from the Big Apple Block BBQ).

Early on, we went to Katz's and enjoyed it immensely. I don't think we'll be returning, though, for a couple of reasons.
First, being next to Montreal and able to have great smoked meat anytime - NY has so much more to offer, why 'waste' a meal on something we can get any day.
(to me, kinda like eating at a chain restaurant while visiting Mahatten...)

Secondly, the price. Yes, Katz is famous and rightly so (traditions, old world, movies, cult following, etc etc), but $15 for a sandwich? I undrstand, its supply and demand, they charge $15 because they can.

If I came from someplace with no smoked meat, then yeah, I'd probably drop in every time and damn the price!

[tombombadillo]

they had to raise the prices because of the regentrification in the area and the hgh rental increases they have to pay, in that area an average apartment went from 850 per month to 2500 per month, hey I understand your ppoint, I come to Montreal for the excellent baguettes, croisants and duck confit rather then bagels .

[bomobob]

Oh no, not the bagel wars again! :)

[fedelst1]

This is Speck. You wont see it on the menu, but it has been available at Schwartz's since dirt was a rock.

[mrbozo]

Speck schmecks. But you must be careful. If you haven't lived right it will get you sooner rather than later.

[BLM]

How much do they charge for it? Anything else they have but not listed on their menu? According to the Mike Boone piece, once Schwartz's expands next door as a take-out counter, they would be looking to add menu items(as long as I can remember, they have never carried any desserts).

[fedelst1]

There are 2 Smoked Meat camps, the traditional old style, such as Schwartz's and the 'new' style, which is the more common wet cured product. One style is not better than the other, they are just 2 products that address specific tastes. There are those of us who like the drier Schwartz's type product, and the rest who like their smoked meat steaming and moist. And, invariably the folks from the wet camp hate the dry smoked meat, and vice versa.

So, if you went to Schwartz's and did not like it, I would guess you would prefer the smoked meat at Reuben's, Deli Lester on Bernard, What was Ben's or most other joints selling Smoked meat.

If you are not a fan of either, and find the wet too wet, or the dry too dry... you can always go to a hidden gem on Center Street..... Quebec Smoked Meat. These guys are a major producer of the Smoked Meat yet, few know of their storefront on Center St. They sell sandwiches over the counter, and they are very good. Piled high with what could be described only as a hybrid between the wet and dry products, they have a good balance of seasoning, and are neither too fat or too lean.

These guys could be doing huge over the counter sandwich sales if they put out a few tables, and were not so uncoordinated. I would say location could be a factor, but truly, I think that if they were to get serious about selling sandwiches, that their clients would come to them en masse.

BTW, their Potato salad is excellent, when they are not sold out, or they did not forget to make it (yes, this has happened). The Cole Slaw is run of the mill.

I still have a place in my heart for Schwartz's. It is the place not clogged with heart stopping cholesterol from my last Schwartz's fix.... ;~>

[BLM]

Which camp is Snowdon Deli(traditional old style or new style)? Personally I like their smoked meat the best(even if they don't make their own smoked meat). It's made according to their specs.

[bomobob]

I think Snowdon does both styles. Don't they have "smoked meat" as well as "old fashioned smoked meat"? I still like the place partly because I have some very early childhood memories of the place back in the 60s, and partly because I can bike over in 10 minutes.
It's much closer to the "wet" smoked meat camp, but I've always liked it better than Ben's, Dunn's, Lester's, et al.

[BLM]

Yes, they have regular smoked meat & Old Fashioned smoked meat(I find their regular smoked meat also very good). Their corned beef is very good, although it tastes similiar to their regular smoked meat.

[porker]

Talking to someone years ago about smoked meat, he mentioned Quebec Smoked Meat. I went the next day to find their very good smoked meat.
I think the guiys there are smoker cum butchers first and sandwich guys later. You're right; set up a few tables with dedicated staffers and people would seek it out regardless of their location (which can turn semi-hip a la Notre Dame/Atwater).

[bopuc]

Easy: myth building.

It's not bad. It's not great. I always try to remind myself: there is no such thing as "the best".
Taste is subjective. right? :)

I will however say this about the "atmosphere": bright fluorescent lights make meat and unhealthy people look green... yummy!

[tromeros]

There's nothing great about Schwartz's other than it tries to duplicate a NY deli.

[maisonbistro]

Them's fighting words, as there is no NY deli that can hold a candle to Schwartz's smoked meat. It just is what it is. An unpretentious place that does one thing, and one thing only, very very very well. NY can keep all it's delis. We'll gladly keep our Schwartz's

[fedelst1]

Ba hahaha .... please show me one place in NY that serves authentic NY style Smoked Meat.... I challenge you! It just does not exist. You can't swing a dead cat and miss hitting a place that serves Pastrami or Corned beef in NY... but Smoked Meat is MTL.

You got to stop eating those boil in the pouch Smoked meat packages. The plastic is doing bad things to your taste buds...

[bopuc]

don't feed the trolls... ;)

[carswell]

Let them eat pastrami.

[1red111]

I just went. Seems like tradition and atmosphere to me. I don't know how it compares to others like it in Montreal but I've had much better in many other cities. I had a MF smoked meat as did my wife. When we were done, I said that really wasn't any better than the corned beef sandwiches around Boston. Right away, she said she felt the same way from the first bite but didn't want to say anything negative since we had gone out of our way to get there. I wouldn't ever recommend it and I wouldn't ever go back.

[The Chemist]

I will go to Schwartzś when there is a street festival on the Main, but only because I don't have to wait in line. Otherwise, I will continue on to Coco Rico and have a little laugh at the people lined up.

Itś good, but not good enough to wait for.

One thing I will say for them is that they have my respect. These guys COULD double capacity and fill the place easy. They COULD cover the landscape in Schwartz franchises... instead, they just go on doing what they have always done, with integrity.

I like that.

[lagatta]

That is true, Chemist. They are taking over the vacant premises next door but it seems that will be for takeaway. I'm pleased about that because while I am not a smoked-meat fan, I love their smoked poultry and although one supposedly doesn' t have to queue alongside the diners for that, it is a bit complicated when they are busy.

[kit]

Took the words outta my mouth -That was the only comment missing from all the opinions above.

Schwartz also has my vote. I do prefer their Medium Fats over Reuben's, Dunns, Snowdon & Ben's (whose last years served their fate), whose meats don't feel like real meat.

And lagatta, after the 10th mention of their smoked poultry, I'm finally giving in and will try it on my next visit!! lol.