526347 Fri Jun 06 06:56:24 -0700 2008 29 33 Food Media and News 0 3755428 I bought Gordon Ramsay's new Healthy Appetite Cookbook (what can I say - it was only 8 quid) and I've yet to have more than a quick flick. Mr GG was looking at it this morning and, almost straight away, he said "I don't think Gordon wrote this book". (He can't help himself - he's a journalist and professional cynic). So I looked a bit more carefully, and sure enough right at the front it says "Food: Mark Sarjeant" (GR's right hand man). Now, it's not unusual for the writing bit of cookery books to be ghosted, but does this mean that GR hasn't even developed the recipes himself? If so, I think this is a bit naughty, as he's clearly selling it using his name. I've half a mind to e-mail the publishers, but I thought I'd guage opinion here first. Mr GG says it's another example of Gordon Ramsay: the brand. :-( Fri Jun 06 06:56:26 -0700 2008 110146 greedygirl 1 3755467 First of all with my publishing hat on, it is not unusual to have a brand name chef working in conjunction with another writer. With the calls on their time, they are no different to sports stars or other celebs who simply would not be able to dedicate the time to a project like this. It is even happenng more regularly with novels now. I am sure you have all seen XXXXXX novel "presented by James Patterson" with the actual name of the author in tiny print In this instance at least you have one of his major underlings doing the work rather than a no name hack. On Saturday Kitchen (er, admits to having watched Saturday Kitchen) MS said he had worked on the book with GR and whittled the recipe list down from 250. And, of course it is about "Brand Ramsay" and you know what you are getting when you buy into it just as you do when you go to RHR and expect him to be beavering away behind the pass. Fri Jun 06 07:06:53 -0700 2008 3755428 12021 Simon Majumdar 2 3755482 I used to work in publishing, so I'm fully aware of what goes on. But as a consumer I can't help feeling a bit cheated by this. So basically Mark Sargeant wrote the book and Gordon slapped his name (and face) on it. That leaves a bit of a nasty taste in my mouth, to be honest. (I would also like fewer photos of bloody Gordon, but I suppose that's too much to ask.) Fri Jun 06 07:12:11 -0700 2008 3755467 110146 greedygirl 3 3755520 it IS a bit of a nasty trick, but why dont you try some of the recipes? maybe you'll enjoy them anyway. and one way to feel better is to learn recipes from gr on youtube; for instance, his scrambled eggs recipe is perfection. Fri Jun 06 07:24:58 -0700 2008 3755482 11086 howler 4 3755534 I agree - I've already discovered that recipe. The reason I bought the book is because I have had good experiences with other recipes (who would have thought that caramelised swede soup could be so delicious). Ah well, I'm probably just bitter because we're always being lectured at work about "trust"... I'm glad I didn't pay full price for the book though. Fri Jun 06 07:30:30 -0700 2008 3755520 110146 greedygirl 5 3755624 tip: check out the minimalist on the nytimes website (its mark bittman) - some lovely recipes there too. Fri Jun 06 07:53:07 -0700 2008 3755534 11086 howler 3 3755540 If you have been in the business, then I am even more suprised that you are surprised. is it any different to going to GR @ Claridges and having MS cooking? Even given my dislike of brand Ramsay it strikes me that they worked on it together and GR wanted MS to get credit for his work on it. Caveat emptor S Fri Jun 06 07:32:38 -0700 2008 3755482 12021 Simon Majumdar 4 3755582 I don't expect Gary Lineker to have selected his book of kid's football stories, and I don't expect Katie Price to write her own autobiography, but yes I do expect GR, who is known as a chef, to write his own recipes. It's about integrity, innit? Fri Jun 06 07:43:41 -0700 2008 3755540 110146 greedygirl 5 3755616 Why? Perhaps in some magical world far far away where frogs sing and pixies sprinkle stardust this might be the case but here in the real world, it doesn't strike me as a particualrly heinous example The bottom line is you are talking about a man who will put his name to Walkers Crisps and Threshers offy's at least this is vaguely related to his profession S Fri Jun 06 07:50:27 -0700 2008 3755582 12021 Simon Majumdar 6 3755631 I don't particularly approve of that either. What can I say - I'm old-fashioned. That's why I moved to the (sort of) public sector. Fri Jun 06 07:56:22 -0700 2008 3755616 110146 greedygirl 7 3755659 That's fair enough. I am not a huge fan of it myself, but I do think the book is one of the lesser examples And, much as I dislike the whole GR bandwagon, I will say that he seems very happy to take the others who have been with him a long time along for the ride Fri Jun 06 08:00:52 -0700 2008 3755631 12021 Simon Majumdar 8 3755761 I would agree that GR is nothing if not fair. Fri Jun 06 08:28:12 -0700 2008 3755659 110146 greedygirl 1 3755606 Interesting thread. No doubt shortly to be continued in the never never land of the Food Media board. Book looks to be another success for Team Ramsey. Fri Jun 06 07:48:37 -0700 2008 3755428 154102 Harters 1 3755780 I feel like you do, GG. We're in publishing, too, in this family, and it seems a bit of a gyp. I never did think that Jamie Oliver invented all of his own recipes, but I'm not sure why that is. And Delia admits to having had a certain woman's help over all her umpteen years of publishing Delia recipes. GR seems just too much of an entrepreneur, and I hate his phoney save the restaurant programmes, especially the American ones! I once worked for two famous ghostwriters. At least they always put their names second after the subject of the book... Such and such by The Famous One ..along with So and So. I ugess Sarjeant's name is on the front cover as you say, but something doesn't seem quite right about all this. Fri Jun 06 08:31:08 -0700 2008 3755428 11939 zuriga1 2 3755815 It's not on the front cover, it's on one of the inside covers. I'm not naive, but I am strangely disappointed by this. Fri Jun 06 08:41:51 -0700 2008 3755780 110146 greedygirl 2 3755843 I am genuinely interested in that take given that, as a oft voiced critic of GR's, the book thing doesn't surprise me For example, I would be really interested to hear an opinion on the restaurant side of Team Ramsay, as Harters excellently puts it Is it much different? He oversees the recipes and someone else cooks them. His name is still over the door. It is still marketed as a GR product, but he allows the chef involved to have a lot of the credit too. The same with his cookware. I am sure he has to approve style and quality, but no one thinks he makes the things, er do they?? So, the same should apply with the books, I imagine. Now, you just have to be consistent. If you think he should have done all the work on the book, then would you boycott the restaurants or moan because he is not behind the stove? Probably not if the meal is any good and it should probably be the same if the book/recipes are any good. I used to be critical when he only had one or two places and you would see him next to his mate Frank Warren at the boxing when people were paying top dollar for his cooking. But now, do people think that he really cooks anymore? The TV is a different discussion. I actually think they are quite entertaining if palpably fake, but again, I know that when I am watching them Fri Jun 06 08:50:32 -0700 2008 3755780 12021 Simon Majumdar 3 3755987 All I can say, Simon, is ack. Those restaurant shows are so forumulaic that after the first 2 or 3, they become a parody of something that started out as a decent idea. OK.. now they bring in the decorators... now Gordon changes the menu etc. :-) I do think there are some tourists naive enough to believe that Ramsay is still standing at certain stoves. I'm glad we here are more sophisticated. If a restaurant is part of a chain, everyone knows what to expect .. Morton's Steakhouses etc. but if your name is on something, then the public deserves a bit more as with the book. If I eat at Maze, at least it doesn't have GR's name as part of the restaurant name... that's something. Or does it say GR's Maze. I really don't know for sure. Maybe we shouldn't compare restaurant cooking with writing a book? Designer clothes are a bit the same as the restaurant thing... we all know some designers do not figure out some of their clothing line. Fri Jun 06 09:26:25 -0700 2008 3755843 11939 zuriga1 4 3756222 I believe the name of Maze was changed to Maze Gordon Ramsay about the time (I think) that Maze Grill opened. Sorry, that should be Maze Grill Gordon Ramsay (as it says on the entrance). FWIW someone who until recently worked for the group told me he does try and visit *all* his places. The empire is growing so fast though I find it hard to believe he can devote enough time to his projects. Fri Jun 06 10:24:18 -0700 2008 3755987 190811 Hermano Primero 5 3756635 Someone like GR spreads himself too thin. I can't imagine the stress and pressure they must feel (if they are conscientious). Does the money make up for the rest of it? Fri Jun 06 12:06:07 -0700 2008 3756222 11939 zuriga1 3 3756002 I expect him to have come up with the recipes, yes. Because his name and face are on the cover, and because he's a flipping chef (allegedly). Fri Jun 06 09:30:23 -0700 2008 3755843 110146 greedygirl 3 3756016 "do people think that he really cooks anymore" There will always be some who think a "brand chef" still wields a pan. I seem to recall seeing something about him recently where he'd been interviewed by a journo who asked "who cooks when you're not there". To which he'd replied "The same people who cook when I am there". North West uberchef, Paul Heathcote, was asked much the same question on local TV recently. Reply was along the lines of "Don't be daft; I've got a business to run". Fri Jun 06 09:33:58 -0700 2008 3755843 154102 Harters 4 3756626 It seems sad that the chefs go into that business because they love to cook and create, but then they end up as businessmen and into high finance... or TV stars! I guess it's a sign of our times. Fri Jun 06 12:04:18 -0700 2008 3756016 11939 zuriga1 5 3758090 Few chef/owners have the time to be on the line the whole time everynight. They generally have many other important things to do. That's been true since the beginning of time. Fri Jun 06 21:19:21 -0700 2008 3756626 10980 Blueicus 1 3756716 I wasn't overly impressed with the book to start with, am even less so now. Fri Jun 06 12:23:01 -0700 2008 3755428 158180 nanette 2 3757663 hermano - maze was always sub-headed gr from the off, not that he had anything to do with the ace food, which - as we know - was jason. simon - not to add fuel to your argument, but ms has been out of the claridges kitchen for a bit now, as i understand it, focusing on the gastro pubs. Fri Jun 06 17:24:34 -0700 2008 3756716 197882 marcus james 3 3759108 Yup - you're right. Re MS when you say focusing, it seems he's only been there for the first week from my experience of them (Narrow, Devonshire, Warrington) and it's shown. My meal during the opening week of The Narrow was right on the money. Wonder what he's doing the rest of the time ? Sat Jun 07 13:34:26 -0700 2008 3757663 190811 Hermano Primero 1 3758142 What I'm wondering is. Some of these other cooks or chefs come out with cookbooks "too fast" for me to believe it's just them. Mark Bittman would have to be an exception; the man is just insanely prolific. But really when you have some folks -- someone with a talk show and the initials RR comes to mind -- it just doesn't seem possible to have three cooking shows, a travel show, a family life, a main show, visiting other shows, visiting shopping centers, food events, book signings ... that it seems only logical a staff must make the food up at this point. I really doubt with RR and others they also have the time to experiment in a kitchen, come up with new recipes and dash out a book every two-and-a-half months. So, how many of these stars do you think must have staffs that come up with their recipes? And which cooks/chefs do you think might do that? Fri Jun 06 22:01:37 -0700 2008 3755428 183904 HarryK 2 3758267 Well Mark Bittman isn't running an empire of television shows, books, restaurants, and pubs across the globe, is he? GR is. Sat Jun 07 01:13:54 -0700 2008 3758142 158180 nanette 2 3758268 While I'm not a particular RR fan, she does demonstrate her recipes on her own show. I believe she just has extraordinary energy. But when celebrities get involved with publishers, it's time to get very skeptical. There, it's often the quick buck and the big name, and honesty be damned. "Just let us put your name on the cover and you'll make a million." Hard to turn down, I suppose. Caveat emptor. Sat Jun 07 01:17:23 -0700 2008 3758142 55316 mpalmer6c 3 3758298 This thread started off on the UK/Ireland board and most of us early contributors are British. As such, we may well be wondering who "RR" is. I assume it must be Rachel Ray whose programme I've occasionally seen when in the US. Is it her that you and HarryK are referring to? J Sat Jun 07 02:58:56 -0700 2008 3758268 154102 Harters 4 3758787 Correct, Harters. I'm using Rachel Ray as an example here, my "RR". Not sure who would be a good British example. Possibly Ramsay if he had a cookbook every two months. I think he manages one every year or year and a half though, no? If so, that seems a reasonable amount of time or frequency to (other than this thread) believe he could be writing all his own recipes. Sat Jun 07 10:34:46 -0700 2008 3758298 183904 HarryK