525751 Wed Jun 04 12:43:31 -0700 2008 10 33 Food Media and News 0 3742577 Better read this! http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/world/europe/01spain.html?scp=1&sq=spanish+food&st=nyt Mon Jun 02 14:19:39 -0700 2008 105372 taiga 1 3742710 There's threads on that article here -> http://www.chowhound.com/topics/524590 http://www.chowhound.com/topics/524519 I'm a fan of any kind of cooking that tastes good and doesn't kill you, from "slow food" to "molecular gastronomy." I also think Santamaria is just a grandstanding publicity hound and that the health concerns are completely fabricated. Methylcellulose, for example, is the "active ingredient" in Citrucel, a very common OTC treatment for constipation. Not exactly soylent green. Mon Jun 02 15:00:02 -0700 2008 3742577 35525 Frodnesor 2 3742900 But you overlooked a couple of important points he makes, that were lost in the silly stuff about liquid nitrogen, etc. (Incidentally, there have been official health concerns regarding low temp cooking in NYC and elsewhere.) He is "accusing them of producing pretentious food they would not eat themselves." And also that " he accused them of cooking for snobs." This is not a new kind attack on cuisine of any kind, but there is certainly a ring of truth to it. Very few places in Miami have any connection to MG, but everyone is touting 'local', 'organic', etc. Perhaps he raises a good point when he asks, "How can we, the defenders of natural, local products, include unnatural products in our cooking?” Although he doesn't state what he means by "unnatural". I guess he may be referring to other hydrocolloids. But methylcellulose is certainly not 'natural' in any sense of the word, although of course it is not toxic. Also, "doesn't kill you" is not really a great standard, my friend. Mon Jun 02 16:02:05 -0700 2008 3742710 41156 Miami Danny 3 3743049 I will expound a little more about the merits of this style of cooking when I post on my little experiment this weekend. But a few general thoughts - - anyone with a restaurant with a fixed menu @ 165 euros a head and the lowest priced item is 35 euros (for vegetables a la cocotte w/ olive oil) has a lot of nerve to talk about "cooking for snobs." http://www.canfabes.com/restaurantcanfabes/menu/menu.php?idioma=en&proc=2 - methylcellulose is no more or less natural than, say, baking powder. Neither occur naturally, both are derived from natural ingredients. - what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Mon Jun 02 16:54:12 -0700 2008 3742900 35525 Frodnesor 4 3743175 Sorry, but I don't think Nietzsche works in the dining room. Secondly, the price of a meal, or anything else, for that matter, does not necessarily denote 'snobbery'. "A snob, guilty of snobbery, is a person who adopts the worldview that some people are inherently inferior to him/her for any one of a variety of reasons including real or supposed..." acc. to wikipedia... Mon Jun 02 17:39:54 -0700 2008 3743049 41156 Miami Danny 5 3743227 I'd be willing to bet you that most of the people eating at El Bulli appreciate a well-cooked meal using traditional methods every bit as much as one using the latest gadgets - however the converse is obviously not true (and that's OK, I'm not suggesting it's any sort of character flaw). Likewise, I don't think there's any chef working with these techniques who will ever try to tell you that their method is the only "right" way to do things and that other methods are inferior. But that sure seems to be what Santamaria is saying. Who's the snob? Surely not Ferran Adria - after all, this is a guy who came up with a recipe for tortilla de patata using a bag of potato chips -> http://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/egg-and-potato-chip-tortilla Mon Jun 02 17:55:59 -0700 2008 3743175 35525 Frodnesor 6 3743573 Actually I think the converse IS just as true. And having made that recipe several times, I can tell you that while it sounds wonderful, it only works with serious chips like you get in a tapas bar in Spain. Forget about Lay's or any chips from a bag, even Route 66 like Andres suggests. It just doesn't work. Mon Jun 02 20:01:16 -0700 2008 3743227 41156 Miami Danny 7 3743719 Disagree - I think the overhwelming majority of people who will appreciate a well-done "avant garde" meal will also equally enjoy a well-done "traditional" meal; I think there are a huge number of people who fully appreciate a "traditional" meal but who will have nothing to do with anything "avant garde." I've always been dubious about that tortilla recipe, but that's not really the point. If a snob is someone who thinks others are inherently inferior, then it sure seems like the only one who fits the bill here is Santamaria. Probably would make more sense to carry on this discussion in one of the other threads linking to the article. Mon Jun 02 21:08:02 -0700 2008 3743573 35525 Frodnesor 8 3745708 Great debate; mostly I share Danny's view. If this stands the test of time, like hip hop has, then I will open my mind. Tue Jun 03 11:49:12 -0700 2008 3743719 105372 taiga 9 3748936 I have written extensively on MG, and love it. www.themapmag.com/MAP_issue04.pdf p.44 I simply think that any debate on the issue is healthy. Unfortunately, Santi was off-base in some of his criticism. However, just like the Tramonto/Trotter debate, I'm sure this will blow over, and competeing chefs will learn to love each other again. And perhaps, one day, even cook in Miami... Wed Jun 04 10:11:27 -0700 2008 3745708 41156 Miami Danny 3 3743069 I don't think I would want methylcellulose in my chowder! ;-P Mon Jun 02 17:03:03 -0700 2008 3742900 163011 crazyspice