Need Authentic Ragu Bolognese sauce from Grandma in Italy

[nbermas]

have a craving, never made it but reading in Saveur there are so many variations but want yours from Grandma or Grandpa please. What pasta do you use with this type of sauce?. I am looking to make a gravy(sauce) that takes all day and with that comes taste that is unbelievable and if I blink I am in Italy with all that yummy scent. Thanks for the help

[vvvindaloo]

to me, gravy and ragu are not the same thing (I grew up with two Italian grandmas!). ragu (bolognese) is a thick sauce with chopped meat, red wine and sometimes milk or cream. gravy is a tomato sauce that is stewed with meat pieces: sausage, pork and veal shoulder, meat balls, and possibly braciole, which are eaten separately. both cook for about 2 or 3 hours after all prep and incorporation steps are completed.
true ragu bolognese includes a lesser amt. of tomato (sometimes merely a tablespoon of paste) and begins with a mirepoix.
"gravy" begins with garlic and oil, in which you brown all of the meat before making the tomato sauce.
which did you have in mind? :)

[nbermas]

ragu is what is on my mind, i have made gravy, So just chopped beef for the ragu? All these recipes I read say pork shoulder, chickenliver, and chopped meat, its sounds very interesting.

[Dmnkly]

Pretty much any combination of beef, pork, veal, pancetta and chicken liver is canonical. The red wine that vvvindaloo uses is a lot less common, though not unheard of. Personally, I find red wine in a Bolognese needlessly heavy.

[nbermas]

I don't use veal alot at all, do I get it ground up? What flavor does it add and do you really need it?

[Dmnkly]

Well, it's not really a matter of adding a flavor -- it's generally an alternative to beef if you want your ragu to be a little less bold and a little more subtle.

I always get my meats ground or grind them myself, but that's because I make enough for eight pounds of pasta at a time and that's a lot of chopping. I've always wanted to try hand-mincing the meat, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

[nbermas]

I am intimated by nothing But butchers, never know what to look for and what to ask for, we are really only chicken people But i love meat a couple times a month. What type of pasta do you use with a ragu? So when I buy the veal isn;t it very expensive so how do I ask the butcher for the veal so it isn;t as expensive? Also the pork to, do you have a meat grinder? Is that how you grind it?

[Dmnkly]

Y'know, I realize veal is known as an expensive meat -- I've never found the difference in price to be that significant, but maybe that's just my experience.

Anyway, shoulder's a good cut for this, across the board. Most importantly, you just don't want it to be lean. You want it to be a nice, fatty cut so it ends up rich and tender. Yeah, I have the KitchenAid grinder attachment and I frequently grind my own, but it's just a question of how lazy I'm feeling that day. Plus, at some stores you can't get a fatty ground meat. Everything is lean, lean, lean, which is definitely less preferable for Bolognese. So sometimes the only way to get a fatty ground meat is to do it myself.

As for pasta, there's no right answer, though I do think some pastas are obviously more suited to the sauce than others. Personally, I go with homemade tagliatelle when I'm feeling bold, packaged spaghetti when I'm feeling lazy :-)

[nbermas]

Do you buy fresh pasta or do you make it? If you buy it where do you go? I love papparelle (spelling)?

[Dmnkly]

I never buy fresh. I either make fresh or buy dry. Packaged fresh pasta has come a long way, but it's still an inferior product, IMHO. And I'm a staunch opponent of the "fresh is inherently better than dried" mindset. They both have their points depending on the sauce, and I think Bolognese is a sauce that handles both quite well. I'd rather enjoy it with first-rate dry than second-rate fresh.

But again, personal preference... personal preference :-)

Incidentally, pappardelle is one of my favorite pastas, too. I think it's a little more suited to shredded meat ragus. You see it paired with game meat ragus all the time in Italy. But I still think it's a perfectly good choice for a ground meat Bolognese, especially if it's one of your favorites :-)

[vvvindaloo]

I use a combination of ground beef, pork and veal. I have the butcher grind it for me (2:1:1). Definitely use a fresh pasta, such as fettuccine.

Nbermas, I see you are in the NY area. My family has been buying fresh pasta from Borgatti in the Bronx for many many years. IMO, fresh is the better choice with bolognese, although a dried shape such as rigatoni works well, too.

[nbermas]

I am reading 8 different ragu bolognese recipes and one uses skirt steak, porkshoulder, beef chuck and pork shoulder, pancetta, chicken liver. some with white wine and some with red wine so I am totally confused now.....

[Dmnkly]

I think the problem, nbermas, is that you're looking for a definitive recipe where there is none :-)

Of course there are certain methods and ingredients that are typical of Bologna and certain ones that are not. But even within a strictly traditional defintion, there are a lot of interpretations that are widely prepared, even within Bologna and the surrounding region -- which was exactly the point of the Saveur article. Granted, the article listed some really unusual recipes that I think stretch the definition to the point of ridiculousness -- this isn't to say that everything you see called Ragu alla Bolognese is Ragu alla Bolognese (many clearly are NOT) -- but the point is that there's a lot of flexibility within that construct.

Personally, I use two parts beef and/or veal (depending on my mood) to one part pork and a smaller amount of ground or finely diced pancetta. Mine's very traditional, but it's no more traditional than 30 other variations I can think of offhand.

[vvvindaloo]

I am sure that a combo of ground pork shoulder, beef chuck and pancetta (not too much) would make a fine ragu. It sounds like you are looking for a more southern style, tomato-based sauce. I would begin by softening and lightly browning your mirepoix in olive oil. Season with S&P. Then add some minced garlic and combine thoroughly with the mirepoix. Add all of the meat, season again, combine thoroughly and cook through. Add a tablespoon or two of tomato paste, mix, and cook until the meat is lightly browned (this could take a while). Once your meat looks good, add your tomatoes according to what kind of texture you are looking for. I like to use whole tomatoes (Italian only) in a little bit of juice or puree. I add some salt to the tomato, and let it come to a boil. Lower to a simmer, add basil leaves, and cook, partly-covered, for as long as you like, but at least 1.5 hours.
Here are some optional additions:
milk/cream (after the tomato paste is well-incorporated but before the tomatoes).
red wine (either in place of or just before the dairy-it's good for deglazing, just be sure to burn off the alcohol before adding the tomato)
bay leaf, oregano
nutmeg

[MagnumWino]

nbermas, try each one and see which you like the best. I have the issue of Saveur to which you referred, great issue. I've made a couple of the Bolognese recipes from that issue. My wife and I really loved the chicken liver recipe. When I make a Bolognese, I always make fresh pappardelle to go with it. I also made the lasagne recipe from the same issue with one of the other Bolognese recipes, and it was outstanding.

[lrostron]

As stated, there are so many variations on a bolognese. I was blessed with two Italian nonnis and a volunteer, a next door neighbor who watched over us. The version I learned, a hybrid of what all three nonnis did, was grinding my own beef, pork and veal, and using white wine, not red wine. All nonnis would use a short pasta, never a long, so my favorite is typically a rigatoni. I'd follow your bliss, try a few in the Saveur article and make one of them your own.