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Blue Star question

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Looking at the 48" range top. It seems like it would be a detriment to have only a single simmer burner? or to not have simmer capability available on more burners. it also seems strange to have it in the back where it may be harder to tend to.

Jeff

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  1. You can simmer on any of the burners- the 22k being the possible exception (you can only simmer a big pot on it). The dedicated simmer burner is going to function best for very low simmers or small pots. The low flame level is somewhat adjustable (I've had mixed success adjusting by myself; if you have a technician do install/setup, they should tweak these to give you low flame w/o firing the spark module).

    As for it being on the back, guess that's a matter of preference. We tend to throw a pot of rice or the like on the back and forget about it until the timer goes off. Not a lot of hollandaise making in our house. Bluestar will put the burners in different locations at the factory if you want (I assume there's and upcharge for this; and I don't think you can change the overall mix of burners). If you're really adventurous, you could change them out yourself- you just need to take the burner and orifice loose from one and trade out for another.

    If you haven't already, there's a boatload of Bluestar knowledge/experience on THS at Gardenweb. Lately, it seems that some folks have had difficulty w/ service issues. We haven't had any issues w/ ours, and it appears that Bluestar has instituted a heavy-duty installation guarantee to take care of those concerns.

    1. All the burners are capable of getting quite low. This has come up on these boards before. If you look at the configuration of the Nova & Super Nova burners they have more ports or individual "flamelets". Turning these burners down will actually cut off the outer flamelets and not spread the heat over as wide an area.

      The simmer burner has a low heat spread over a bigger area. This is ideal for keeping a pan with a large diameter at a lower temperature. Things are not going to be hot enough in such a pan to require constant stirring. Further you would not want the SuperNova burner in the back as the type of cooking you'd do on it would require constant attention and/or good access.

      1 Reply
      1. re: renov8r

        This differs from my experience:

        1) All of the ports in a given burner still have flame, even when turned all the way down. Thus the SuperNova burner's low setting is a good bit higher than that of the others.

        2) The simmer burner has a single ring of ports, maybe 3-4" in diameter. None on the arms of the star. There's nothing about the burner itself that spreads the low heat over a wider diameter. Putting a heavy bottom pot on it may do that.

        Jibing with what renov8r says, our rear 22k burner (36-inch stove) doesn't get a lot of use.

      2. I would avoid any range that does not offer dual function burners. This is a big compromise and my suggestion is to make sure you actually see one of theese dedicated high out put burners in action before you decide to buy a range like this. A single simmer burner would be a royal pain and while you might be able to simmer water on a dedicated HO burner you will probably have a hard time with rice or sauce at a simmer. Theese ranges are very compromised set ups from my perspective. Look at Five Star, Viking or others and be sure you see them actually burn at simmer so you can make an informed decision.
        Also it has been noted on theese boards before that one of the reasons Blue Star puts the simmer burner in the rear is because excessive heat deflection from the HO burner may damage the rear of the stove. Be sure to consider your hood option very carefully if you choose a 22k burner in the front.

        16 Replies
        1. re: Docsknotinn

          Definitely find one to see/try in person. The burners are dual function, the 22k BTU just turns down relatively less. I'd be more concerned about that on a 30" range than on a 36" or larger, since I think 2 of the 4 burners are 22k BTU then. We cook on ours day in and out and aren't "compromised" at all.

          On our 36" range, both the simmer burner and one 22k BTU burner are in the back. Over the holidays, I ran a 10 gal tamale steamer on the big back burner for several hours. It caused some heat discoloration (not damage) of the backguard. With a little Barkeeper's Friend and elbow grease, it's barely noticeable. Maybe even a badge of honor.

          The attached photo is one of the few I've taken of our range in action- cooking paella on it (front 15k BTU burner) soon after we moved back in.

          1. re: ted

            The burners are dual function, the 22k BTU just turns down relatively less.
            +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

            If they turn down less then they are not dual function. Dual function burners offer both simmer and high out put not simmer and medium. For me this is a major design flaw. For others it's no biggie. Either way buyers do need to know that the HO burners on the Blue Star do NOT simmer. This is the reason a dedicated simmer burner is used. This is also a draw back if you want multiple burners running on high for a meal as you loose a whole burner to simmer.
            Five Star offers the higher BTU out put and dual function burner.

            1. re: Docsknotinn

              I called FiveStar yesterday and it was like calling the federal goverment, no help at all. I asked if there was anyplace I could see one, I was asked where I live, I said the Chicago area, I was told no there would be nothing near me, no additional suggestions or help. I't not like I said Minot North Dakota, it's Chicago and they have no product in the area, THAT scares me.

              What defines "simmer"? I read in another post that Blue Stars mid-range 15K burner is actually not so different from the simmer, and actually goes lower than other manufacturers full function burners.

              1. re: jeffreyem

                Blue Stars mid-range 15K burner is actually not so different from the simmer, and actually goes lower than other manufacturers full function burners.
                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                Not true. The BS 15k is just a hair hotter than a standard burner but the simmer will function fine. It is not the lowest simmer available. Five Star and Viking go lower and I'm sure there are others as well.
                Simmer is typically under 1000 BTU. The BS 22k burner will not function as a normal simmer and you can find that info on the BS web site in the Q&A section. I believe Five Star has the lowest dual function simmer at 350 BTU.
                How many burners you have with Blue Star that will function at simmer depends on the configuration that you order and the model. But remember none of those that work as dual function offer the large BTU.
                I would not even consider Blue Star. Don't get wrapped up in the hype over a few more BTU on a select burner. If the high out put burners are not dual function and the simmer burners can not sautee then you are working with a very restricted system. When you compare ranges and features BS is not really much less than the major brands.
                Viking has dual function as well but they peak at 18k.
                No matter what you choose you must see them in person. I expect we will see more from Five Star in the future. I think it's the most promising product I have seen in quite a while and the Five Star offers lower simmer, Higher BTU and is less expensive.

                1. re: Docsknotinn

                  I think we're headed towards angels and pinheads here, but I'll comment again.

                  I'm not sure how this got to be Bluestar vs. FiveStar. Is that what you have, Doc? On THS, similar conversations tend to involve folks who've just gotten the two names confused.

                  Heck, if I was looking again I wouldn't "not even consider" any of the pro-style home ranges. Sorry for the double negative. Wolf, Viking, DCS, Bluestar etc, etc. I'd look at them all and choose for myself. Not take the opinion of an armchair appliance evaluator.

                  On the simmer capability, there are a lot of different ways the mfr.s have put this together. To me, some of the mini burners and on/off action are as chintzy as Doc thinks a burner that doesn't go that low is. What I have works for me. If you're strictly looking at numbers and checking boxes in order to make a decision, maybe you'll end up with something else. I can only simmer a tiny Revere saucepan on the simmer burner; anything much bigger I can simmer anywhere.

                  Here's what I like about my range:

                  -Open burners. This could be a whole thread to itself. I like them and don't have problems with cleanup. I think the Bluestar configuration does a really good job of spreading heat evenly that the sealed burners don't do as well.

                  -Simple mechanical design: There's no brain that's going to die and cost a lot to replace.

                  -Oven holds a full-sized sheet pan: Think there are only a couple of mfr.s that can claim this. The gas oven was a compromise, but it was worth the $1.5-$2k savings over the least expensive dual fuel. And it works fine for us.

                  -Lifting off a burner grate on the 22k burner, dropping in a 14-inch Chinese wok and bathing it in blue flame. No wok ring required.

                  I was unsuccessful last night at attaching a photo of a pan of paella simmering away on the 15k burner. Will try again later.

                  1. re: ted

                    We got into the Blue Star Vs Five Star because the OP asked about theese brands on different threads. I agree completly about the arm chair evaluations because I see so much negative and poor data posted on the net by people who have never used or even seen many of theese products.
                    I previously suggested seeing all of theese in person. Buyers should always see the brands they are interested in hooked up so they can actually see the burners function. Buyers should also be armed with all the relevant information so the can make an informed personal choice.
                    I already posted I have a Viking. As a Chef I frequently wind up cooking in many homes and have used the brands I comment on with the exception of the Five Star. Which I hope to remedy in the very near future as we now have multiple Five Star dealers in my area.
                    I am not a fan of the Blue Star for one simple reason. It is a restricted design. You have to work around your stove instead of your stove working around your style. How you cook may well change with every meal. When you have one fixed HO burner and one fixed simmer burner you are locked into using that configuration. Worse yet you have just lost 25% of your effective cooking space on a four burner unit due to the dedicated simmer burner.
                    IMO Blue Star gets attention for two reasons. It's lower in cost than the major commercial style products and offers higher BTU's available on select burners. Personally I think BS is more expensive in the end. Yes you might save $500+ on the bottom line but consider why you are buying a range like this over a higher end consumer style range. Then factor how much more BS will cost you over GE, Kitchenaid etc. What you are gaining for that $1500+?
                    What you are gaining on a typical four burner Blue Star is ONE high out put burner. How ever you loose 25% of your effective cooking space because of the dedicated simmer burner. The other two burners are just typical 15k BTU burners like the standard consumer ranges that are far less costly. So IMO that's ONE very expensive burner.
                    Five Star also comes into play because it also offers a HO burner like Blue Star and in addition it also has dual function burners including the lowest simmer available. That's FOUR high out put and four simmer burners, not one. It's also an under dog compared to Viking, Wolf, Thermador etc.
                    Many of theese units are simplistic in design and do not utilize a motherboard including Five Star and Viking depending on the model you choose.

                    1. re: Docsknotinn

                      OP here, in my original post I stated I was looking at a 48" top (no ovens) so a bit less restrictive than 4 burners, I'm probably looking at 6 burners; (2) 22k, (3) 15K, a simmer and griddle. NOW, the consensus I seem to be getting from here and other boards is that the 15K burners will simmer just fine the hole pattern on the simmer burner is just made for smaller pans. It seems to be a BS marketing problem rather than a functional issue. Again my problem with FiveStar is that they were no help suggesting anywhere I could look at one (they have no distributors in Chicago), that in and of itself is a little scary.

                      1. re: jeffreyem

                        It is dissapointing that Five Star is not available in Chicago considering their representative Chef. I would not buy any brand with out testing it for your self first. Clearly that rules out Five Star for you.
                        Yes the 15k burners simmer fine. The 22k burners do not. That's a funtional or design issue, not marketing. Instead of relying on info here you will find that information right on the BS web site. The 22k burners are not suitable for simmer. IE they do not turn down low enough.
                        Your not really buying a product like this for 15k BTU burners or simmer burners are you? So your entire purchase will be for two 22k burners instead of six full function burners. You end up with one simmer and three plain consumer burners.
                        Go with what works best for you no matter what brand it is but those are two very expensive burners when any GE, Kitchen aid etc will give you both simmer and 15k BTU.
                        Viking and others offer true dual function burners on every burner. I suggest looking closely at other brands and comparing cost closely Vs value and function.

                        1. re: Docsknotinn

                          Doc- no argument on being hesitant to get a Bluestar for a 30-inch range due to the lower turndown on the 22k burners. That's not what I have or what OP asked about, though. I still think it's a great stove, but I might be tempted to go for 3 15k burners plus simmer in that situation. And I still think it's a step up from a standard GE or KA range.

                          Paella photo attached.

                           
                          1. re: Docsknotinn

                            According to their website Viking doesn't offer anything over 16K output on their burners so how is that dual or full function? they offer no high output except for the wok burner and that takes up 24". VIking seems to be the least versatile of the pro-syle ranges. The FiveStar does seem promising but I can't see it without a plane ticket and can't find any reviews on it except for someone who is paid to do so. The Capital Precision also seems promising but can't find much on that either.

                            1. re: jeffreyem

                              Viking doesn't offer anything over 16K output on their burners so how is that dual or full function?
                              +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                              I think you kind of lost me there. Blue Star is offering you four out of six burners that have less BTU than all six burners on the Viking. I'm not sure why you think that is less flexible but It may well be depending on what you personally want.
                              Shop other brands if you don't like Viking. Wolf, Thermador etc.
                              Dual function burners operate at simmer ( generally 1,000 BTU or less AND maximimun BTU). So the Viking and others are ALL dual function burners while Blue Star is offering three of their six burners as dual function (15k btu).
                              Fit and finish may come into play as well so again I suggest looking at the products in person. You mentioned a wok so you will want to see how wok rings work with the grates for each brand in person and how they function with the grates. Higher BTUs won't help if your wok is four inches from the flame. You can only gain so much from the internet. You can love a product on stats and not like it at all in person.
                              I know were not right around the corner but there are Five Star dealers in Detroit and you could always shoot Rick Bayless an email and ask him where you could see one locally. It's at least worth a try.

                              1. re: Docsknotinn

                                I think you kind of lost me there. Blue Star is offering you four out of six burners that have less BTU than all six burners on the Viking.
                                +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                And two that are considerably higher than the Viking. "on paper" the BS is more versatile, the diference between 15 & 16K is negligible, and all of the BS Burners (except the 22ks) go as low or lower than the Viking.

                                1. re: jeffreyem

                                  all of the BS Burners (except the 22ks) go as low or lower than the Viking.
                                  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                  Sorry but that's just not the case at all. Not that it matters in the least if you don't like Viking. This is starting to just turn into an inane debate. I will tell you from first hand use of theese products some of the info posted here is just not accurate and is even contrary to the BS web site.
                                  IMO Five Star is a much better buy with all high out put burners, dual function and THE lowest simmer available. They have a dealer search right on their web site. There are many other brands besides Viking to compare.
                                  If your sold on BS buy one and enjoy!
                                  Best of luck.

                        2. re: Docsknotinn

                          Five Star's Chicago area distributor went belly up about 6 months ago. Real disaster for MANY brands in the market. I think the firm is working with a few of the independent dealers to try and get into the market, but with the housing troubles the dealers are understandably reluctant to take on financial risk.
                          Currently the nearest Five Star dealer is in Michigan, about 2.5 hours away. If you take a trip to SW Michigan it can make for a nice little outing. Many Chicago folks (including the five star spokes chef...) spend a lot of time in the New Buffalo region...

              2. re: Docsknotinn

                Definitely find one to see/try in person. The burners are dual function, the 22k BTU just turns down relatively less. I'd be more concerned about that on a 30" range than on a 36" or larger, since I think 2 of the 4 burners are 22k BTU then. We cook on ours day in and out and aren't "compromised" at all.

                On our 36" range, both the simmer burner and one 22k BTU burner are in the back. Over the holidays, I ran a 10 gal tamale steamer on the big back burner for several hours. It caused some heat discoloration (not damage) of the backguard. With a little Barkeeper's Friend and elbow grease, it's barely noticeable. Maybe even a badge of honor.

                The attached photo is one of the few I've taken of our range in action- cooking paella on it (front 15k BTU burner) soon after we moved back in. The stock is in the pot in the back on the simmer burner.

                1. re: Docsknotinn

                  Definitely find one to see/try in person. The burners are dual function, the 22k BTU just turns down relatively less. I'd be more concerned about that on a 30" range than on a 36" or larger, since I think 2 of the 4 burners are 22k BTU then. We cook on ours day in and out and aren't "compromised" at all.

                  On our 36" range, both the simmer burner and one 22k BTU burner are in the back. Over the holidays, I ran a 10 gal tamale steamer on the big back burner for several hours. It caused some heat discoloration (not damage) of the backguard. With a little Barkeeper's Friend and elbow grease, it's barely noticeable. Maybe even a badge of honor.

                2. Here Rick Bayless comments on closed vs. open burners and his fivestar range.
                  http://www.rickbayless.com/about/blog...

                  1. One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread about simmer on a BS is the fact that the grates are designed to be lifted and turned, so that any pot can be placed further from the heat, which is not the case on most ranges. You can see a pix of the burners on ted's range in his paella picture. Just lift the grate and turn, and you're in business. By so doing, you effectively reduce the heat getting to your pot, if that's what you want to do. I have a BS and love it, particularly for wok cooking, and its strength as a high output range far outweighs any defects it may have as a simmer range---the simmer problem can be easily fixed as I suggested and/or by buying a simmer pad for a few bucks, but there's no way to fix a low-output problem if you have a use for the power. And you never know what use you will learn as you go along---as I reported on a previous thread, I have found I can use mine to deep fry in very little oil by using a wok on the 22k burner--much better and cleaner than any deep-fryer you might otherwise have to use---it makes deep-frying a possible technique in my house which it wasn't before, which is great and is something I never expected when I bought the unit.

                    BTW the star shape of the burners on the BS spreads the heat much better than any round burner, and as such I'd say 15k on a BS is equivalent to (20k??) on a unit using a round burner head. My previous unit was a DCS with 18k in the fifth center burner, and every burner on the BS can cook rings around that one.

                    19 Replies
                    1. re: johnb

                      Thank you, A BS 48, just may be in my future.

                      1. re: johnb

                        BTW the star shape of the burners on the BS spreads the heat much better than any round burner, and as such I'd say 15k on a BS is equivalent to (20k??) on a unit using a round burner head.
                        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                        If there was even a remote gain all commercial ranges would have star burners and they do not. 15k BTU is 15K BTU no matter what shape the burner is. If you prefer Star burners fantastic but that's just poor and inaccurate information to suggest they are the equivelant of 5k BTU more than a round burner.

                        1. re: Docsknotinn

                          Didm't the old Vulcan's & Garland have stars? Thermador has stars or daisies, doubt they're worth 5K btu, but they do have a following...

                          1. re: renov8r

                            In a commercial setting I prefer the star because those units typically allow us to remove the manifold and turn the burner upside down on another to burn off any carbon or debris after service. Yes many of the old Garlands and Vucans were Stars but other commercial burners are not.
                            The thermador is indeed more like a daisy...It's pretty small in comparison. They all have a following. Each brand has its features but no brand is going to offer any measurable increase in the BTU rating based solely on the star configuration Vs round in the same BTU rated burner.
                            In the home setting I prefer the rounds as they offer more flexability in terms of range from simmer to high.
                            I do like the Super Nova burner. What I don't like is the lack of flexability from the other burners. If BS manufactured the standard burners like Five star with a huge range from 350-21000 BTU then they would have an incredible product.

                            1. re: Docsknotinn

                              Of course it's not going to change the BTU rating. That wasn't the point. The point is that distribution of the BTU's is also important, and the star pattern does that a lot better than the round pattern you typically get with sealed burners. And since you apparently (may not be) (aren't) aware, the BS burner is actually basically the same as the Garland commercial stove burner. BS is made by Prizer-Painter Stove Works. They have made parts for Garland for maybe 100 years (I exaggerate but you get the picture), and they used to make the Garland home line when Garland was in the residential business. The home line burners and grates were essentially the same as the commercial (ie true professional, not ersatz professional like Viking) burners. When Garland decided they didn't want the headaches of the residential business, Prizer-Painter just kept going making the same product and selling it under the BS name that they thought up. It is a Garland and for all practical purposes a commercial-grade product, which Viking, Five Star, Wolf, and many others are not.

                              1. re: johnb

                                It is a Garland and for all practical purposes a commercial-grade product, which Viking, Five Star, Wolf, and many others are not.
                                +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                No it's not a Garland it's a blue Star. BS is not and never has been a commercial product. Period. Wolf is the ONLY professional product of all those listed.
                                None of this will change the fact that the star burner does not produce 5k more BTU than a circle burner like your prior statement. A 15k burner is a 15k burner, circle or star and no one is discussing open Vs closed burners.
                                BS was nothing but a sub-contractor for Garland and then only for a few years. The inaccurate information that gets posted here about BS really is astounding at times.
                                Direct from the BS web site;

                                " for several years Prizer produced professional gas ranges for the Garland brand. "

                                Bs was just another sub contractor. They never owned Garland so there is absolutly no claim that BS is or ever was Garland. BS is not basicly the same. It's just a copy of a Garland.
                                Additionally they did not produce every Garland product. This is the same way Viking works. Viking produces ranges while their dish machines are made by Asko and the fridges are made by some one else with a Viking badge.
                                Painter stove works did not begin contract parts production until the mid 70's and that only ran for about 15 years. Stretching 15 years of parts production into 100 is more than just a little exageration. Lets just post accurate info as it's readilly available and is a lot more helpfull. You can find all of this right on the BS web site.

                                I

                                1. re: Docsknotinn

                                  I never said they were actually Garland, owned Garland, or produced every Garland product. or that BS is a Garland. That was clear from the context, which you conveniently ignore. Reread my post. You said all that to set up a straw man to knock down. That is truly inaccurate information, and you're the one posting it. Should I have put quotes around "Garland" ? Would that make you happy? BTW I doubt you had any idea of the BS/Garland connection until you read my post and went scurrying to the PP website. And I and most who post here know full well that appliance makers often have thing sold under their names made elsewhere.

                                  Ted mentioned open burners in this thread.

                                  I never said it was equivalent to 20k in a heat measurement sense--I put parens and question marks around that--I said all (including the smaller) burners on the BS put out more effective heat than an 18k burner in a DCS.

                                  What I said, and any fair minded person should have EASILY understood even if I didn't say it literally, was that the working parts of the BS, the burners, are the same as Garland burners (obviously not all Garland burners because Garland makes and has made different burners, so you won't immediately accuse me again of inaccurate information). It's a Garland design, and I believe is still installed on Garland stoves and sold as a Garland product. The key point is that the BS burners are true commercial grade, which most or all of the others are not. This is important information for someone who might be considering what rangetop to buy. That is, it is helpful information, in contrast to some other that is being posted here.

                                  1. re: johnb

                                    "The key point is that the BS burners are true commercial grade"
                                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                                    The BS is NOT a commercial range or burner. There is no such thing as commercial "grade". Isn't that a commercial tag line for GM?
                                    A range has either been a professional commercial product or it has not. BS has never been. It's just that simple and all the little catch phrases and exagerations won't make it so. Wolf is the only company listed here that can make the claim to being a true commercial product.

                                    "never said they were actually Garland"
                                    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                                    Well actually you did. You may want to read your previous posts. Specifically you stated;
                                    "It is a Garland".
                                    BS was a sub contractor and primarily just a parts sub contractor for Garland.
                                    What is important and usefull information to potential buyers is to be able to seperate fact from marketing.
                                    BS may well be a solid choice for many. Hopefully they make that choice based on the function of the product not a guerilla marketing scheme.

                                    1. re: Docsknotinn

                                      >>>>"What is important and usefull (sic) information to potential buyers is to be able to seperate (sic) fact from marketing." <<<<<

                                      I'm flabbergasted that anyone who is on record as stating that Viking should be strongly considered by a stove buyer would make such a statement. Viking is the archtypical marketer among all these products, spending huge sums on advertising and product placement in the food and home improvement media such as Food Network, HGTV, Gourmet, Architectural Digest, etc. The main reason BS is "cheaper" as you say is because it does not compete that way (It doesn't have the money to do it) but rather by simply putting out a good product, which is what should matter to the buyer, not slick-paper marketing hype a la Viking and, to various degrees, the other "rich yuppie kitchen" appliance makers.

                                      I restate: the BS is a true commercial GRADE product. By that it is meant that the burners and grates are functionally (and for practical purposes absolutely) identical to those that have been sold on thousands of commercial stoves. That is what matters, not word games such as you continue to play, very tiresomely I might add.

                                      1. re: johnb

                                        "I restate: the BS is a true commercial GRADE product. The burners are identical to burners that have been sold on thousands of commercial stoves. "
                                        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                        You have never seen a professional commercial burner have you? If you had then you would not be making theese claims that are so terribly inaccurate. The burners are not identical. Not even close.
                                        What Chow Hounds should be asking is what was the reputation of Garland when BS was making theese products. It was poor at best. IE: BS did not survive in this market. There was a reason for that.
                                        Finally any one who wants to see the difference between a true commercial burner and a BS should make a trip to a local restaurant supply. Ask to see how the manifolds break down, Look at the size and material of the burners and manifolds and then you can easilly see for your self that they are not the same.
                                        I do believe that Viking, Wolf, Thermador, Five Star etc should all be considered. Not because of marketing but because of the function of the product. No other stove manufacturer I know of uses marketing like BS.
                                        As far as your "rich yuppie" comment the cost difference on many products from BS to Viking or the others is absolutly nominal. Especially on the ranges.
                                        Fit and Finish come into play as well as the ability to provide service, something BS seems to be struggling with at the moment. IMO BS is the most expensive in the end as you are paying a very high price for one or two high out put burners and the others are standard conumer burners or less.

                                        1. re: Docsknotinn

                                          This latest post, with its egregious inaccuracies, shows the pointlessness of further discussion. I retire.

                                          However, should anyone plow through this thread in the future, and is actually interested in credible and objective commentary, they should read the following review done by David Rosengarten, published in Departures Magazine way back in 2003 (the date is significant because BlueStar did not have the 22k btu burners at that time, which "Doc" has said is the "only" worthwhile feature of the BS product). There is plenty of similar, and credible, and more recent commentary available if anyone wants to seek it out--Garden Web is one starting point for user opinions and many links.

                                          http://www.bluestarcooking.com/review...

                                          1. re: johnb

                                            Your out of context quotes are comical. LOL

                                            I'm not sure I would call an article on the BS web site objective but now we certainly know who has been scurrying over to the BS web site for info. You may want to note that BS does not publish the entire article from the other reviews on their site, only select quotes. I did appreciate a few things from the linked article.

                                            1) They quickly identified the ranges as Commercial "style" residential which is exactly what they are. Not commercial or commercial "grade".

                                            2) The article rates that darn "yuppie" Viking in second place for the burner. Significant when you consider that the BS burner at that time was 18k BTU and the Viking 15k. They even elaborate about how efficient the Viking burner is. So much for that 5k gain with a star burner was was previously claimed over a circle burner.

                                            3) In regards to simmer the article is no longer valid. BS no longer offers the "burner with in a burner" configuration on all of the burners or perhaps more accuratly the HO burners do not function well at a simmer. BS utilizes a dedicated simmer burner. You can go the the BS web site Q&A and get direct information there about the simmer ability on the current 22k burner. The article also had this to say about the simmer or inner burner and it's one reason IMO that a star burner is less deireable than a circle burner;

                                            "the cone of heat that Blue Star produces at its lowest setting is of a very small diameter, targeted at the center of the pot. Will this cause problems – such as burn spots – "

                                            BS clearly has it's fans. One of the things that really turns me away from BS are the exagerated marketing claims by BS. Quality products do not require that type of marketing. Even this article clearly states that you should look at other brands including Viking and I agree completly.
                                            Finally the article itself clears up this debate about BS being "absolutely identical " to Garland. From the article;

                                            "The starfire (garland) consisted of an inner circle of jets with eight additional spokes protruding outward. This gave the bottom of your pan great contact with heat, which pros call "vertical flame impingement." The Blue Star cooktops have the identical "starfire" arrangement, but for legal reasons it's called "nova" instead of "starfire."

                                            So there you have it straight from the source so to speak. The flame arrangement is the same however the BS is just a knock off and does not offer the BTU or all of the physical features of the Garland burner system. It is similar but absolutly not a true commercial burner or even commercial "grade" (what ever that means) and the claims on this thread that the BS burner is "functionally and absolutely" the same as a Garland commercial burner are absurd.
                                            I find the BS less productive for my style of cooking. If you want a 22k burner and don't mind giving up the cook top real estate to a dedicated simmer burner then consider BS but dont skip looking at every brand in person for yourself. Theese products constantly change and there is more and more competition. There are no one size fits all ranges or cook tops. No matter which brand you choose I'm sure you will enjoy it.

                                            1. re: Docsknotinn

                                              (disclosure: I just ordered a blue star)

                                              One of my main observations has been the number of BS OWNERS that bother to put up positive posts on this and many other boards..("That Home SIte"; apartment therapy, another 'chefs' site I can't remember; amazon, etc.) Maybe I haven't read enough but it seems to me that very few say 'i would never get a BS again or 'stay away' You see many more complaints about the other brands being discussed.

                                              If brand loyalty and customer satisfaction is the new gurrella marketing, I can't wait for my fatigues to arrive.

                                              1. re: fkerm

                                                I hope we get to see some pictures of the new cook top.
                                                Brand loyalty has nothing to do with guerilla marketing. As far as complaints go remember that BS has only been around for about six years and they have a tiny market share compared to the others.
                                                I hope it works out well for you. I also noticed that you are asking for gas hook up info in NYC but you didn't consider Five Star because there are no dealers in Chicago? FYI there are multiple Five Star dealers in NYC.

                                                1. re: Docsknotinn

                                                  might have confused me with the OP. I spoke to 3 NYC dealers who carried both. They did not try too hard to convince me to consider other brands, We spoke about them but they agreed the Blue Star was a worthy choice for my needs.

                                                  1. re: fkerm

                                                    My apologies. I did have you confused with the OP. Did you go with a range or cook top and did you get a hood as well?

                                                    1. re: Docsknotinn

                                                      Any opion on the convection oven and brioler?

                                                      1. re: ecco

                                                        I guess everyone left off on their heated debates reguarding
                                                        blue vs five
                                                        star.
                                                        After trying to get many questions answered...blue star always answered the phone.

                                                        Five star refered me to Central Market in Dallas, tx.
                                                        I went to see the product. ask questions.

                                                        It was a lovely product.

                                                        Perhaps because I own and cook on an old Chamber stove, the Blue Star held it's appeal.

                                              2. re: Docsknotinn

                                                Doc,

                                                I'm re-doing my kitchen and considering Blue Star and FiveStar, and have read your posts. I have a related question ... I have little need for a griddle or grill on my range, so I'm planning to get six burners, whichever range I get. In that set-up, would having one lower-output simmer burner be a significant drawback, or would the existence of five other burners be enough to cover me?

                                                As a separate issue, at the risk of setting off another firestorm, does anyone have any experience with the gas ovens in the Blue Star (where it's the only option) and Five Star (where you can do either). I'm planning to get a separate electric convection wall oven, so I don't see a need to pay extra for a duel-fuel range, but I do want the best oven I can get.

                                                Thanks.