522597 Sun May 25 19:58:23 -0700 2008 8 4 Pacific Northwest 0 3720299 You know that rich, dark, wonderful espresso that you can buy in Italy? Where can one buy beans like that in Seattle? I have tried Torre Fazione, Starbucks, Stumptown....any suggestions? Sun May 25 19:58:25 -0700 2008 15383 tstrum 1 3720472 While Starbucks' beans are, generally speaking, crap, it isn't the bean that makes a rich dark wonderful espresso, it's the making. A dark (or extra dark) roast, and a good method of making an espresso, and you're golden. What beans did you try from stumptown? Every bean we've tried from them has been excellent out of our Gaggia. Sun May 25 22:22:10 -0700 2008 3720299 102157 jaydeflix 2 3720510 Hairbender, I think. It is not dark nor rich enough. Sun May 25 22:56:34 -0700 2008 3720472 15383 tstrum 3 3720531 Well, I did enjoy my hairbender espressos, you may want to go for a single source, rather than a blend. Did you try an espresso at Stumptown? Sun May 25 23:28:05 -0700 2008 3720510 102157 jaydeflix 4 3720918 yes, they use hairbender. By the way, the dark rich taste of espresso in Italy is due to the beans. In Italy they use Arabian beans. I wish I knew where to get those. Mon May 26 07:42:09 -0700 2008 3720531 15383 tstrum 5 3720989 You need to educate yourself in coffee. The fact is, depending on which part of Italy you are referring to, Stumptown probably roasts darker. Northern Italy uses a light roast, somewhere around Rome, that grades to a much darker roast. Yes, they use ARABICA beans primarily, but the include a percentage of ROBUSTA beans to increase crema production. Almost NO Pacific NW roaster will include ROBUSTA beans at all because they are not politically correct in the NW coffee culture. So, let's see, that means that Stumptown and all the others already use "Arabian" beans as you call them. The fact is, the lighter roasts actually taste better in espresso because they allow more of the beans intrinsic flavor come through, darker roasts taste more of carbon, less of coffee. So, if you want darker than Hairbender, you will get something well past "French" roast, and closer to charcoal. Naples style. What exactly do you mean by "rich"? Stumptown, etc produce an espresso that is as good as most espressi I've had from Rome up through Milan, Genoa, Alba, etc. Better than many. Most Italian beans are in fact not very fresh, not as fresh as many of the better roasters in the NW. Rich? What does that mean? Deep flavors? Complex flavors? etc? That really implies a lighter roast, not darker, up to a point, as I said, the darker you go, the less complex because you eventually hit a one-note flavor profile of carbon. Does any of this make sense. Read more on coffee, especially Illy's works if you want to understand Italian espresso. Have fun. Mon May 26 08:20:28 -0700 2008 3720918 25989 sambamaster 6 3721758 As you may be aware, illycaffè is a 100% ARABICA blend. Dr. Ernesto Illy abhorred the ROBUSTA species because of its poor flavor (as do many PNW roasters). He stated flatly that Italian coffee roasters use ROBUSTAS only because they are cheap, and not because they improve the flavor or crema of their espresso. Personally, I find illy’s espresso rather bland and lacking in richness, although it’s certainly consistent. Mon May 26 14:30:16 -0700 2008 3720989 34704 Luwak 1 3721219 FYI - Trorrefazione is a SBUX, acquired when they bought Seattle's Best Coffee Mon May 26 10:06:03 -0700 2008 3720299 192038 Joi de Vie 1 3721623 For great Italian espresso go to Caffe Umbria. They roast in the Umbrian style (perhaps that is obvious) and they have the best espresso around, in my humble opinion. We serve it at our cafe and so far no one has brought me anything that I like better. You can also get Illy espresso, which they serve all over Italy, but I still prefer the locally roasted Caffe Umbria. Also, they originated Torrefazione, before it sold to SBC, etc... Mon May 26 13:25:18 -0700 2008 3720299 192021 monicascafe