Coffee in Mexico

[HamburgerToday]

I'm researching the coffee culture in Mexico. Can anyone provide me with insights as to how the Mexican's prefer to drink when it comes to coffee? Where does Cafe con Leche fit into popularity and is there a preference for it over american style coffee? Any info is helpful. Thank you.

[paul balbin]

The best cup of coffee I have ever had in Mexico was at "La Paroquilla" in Xapala, Vera
Cruz. It was made with coffee grown in the Coatepec region which is near by. It was
made by the method described above. The coffee was poured into the cup from one
pitcher and the hot milk was poured from another with a great flourish. A very similar
cup can be found at the "Arco de Noe" on the plaza in Coatepec it's self.
I prefer the Prima lavada coffees from this region, I suspect most americans would
prefer the Altura. Prima lavada seem stronger to my taste and I like my coffee
strong.

[Caroline1]

That's a very old traditional European way of serving coffee, especially in the morning. The French call it "cafe au lait." Don't know why the Mexicans and Spanish don't call it "cafe ole." '-)

[paul balbin]

Thanx for the info, I did not know that. In Xapala they call it a Lechero.

[Caroline1]

Aren't words fun! For English speakers would that be coffee for lechers? When I lived in Turkey, it was very common to say to someone, "Oh, you're a peach!" But I had to be VERY mindful not to say it to, or in front of a Turk. In Turkish "peach" ( spelled "piç") means "bastard".

[Sam Fujisaka]

I work a bit with coffee growers in Chiapas and Vera Cruz. They grow from conventional to certified organic fair trade specialty coffees. Many of the growers and most of the people working with the buyer coops have started brewing and drinking very good cups.

[Eat_Nopal]

I recently caught a blog post about a lady from Chiapas who has caught some attention at D.F. tianguis for her Coffee brewed with Cardomon which she serves with an unusual sounding sweet & sour type of Tamal that has some kind of fermented masa.

Have you seen anything like in your travels through Chiapas?

[Sam Fujisaka]

No, ... but I'll certainly be on the lookout next opportunity I get. Thanks.

[HamburgerToday]

I know that Turkish Coffee (or Lebanese coffee) is brewed with cardamom. Very thick and black - I've had it traditionally brewed with lots of honey or sugar.

Not familiar with the Tamal but if you find anything fill me in. I'd love to duplicate it.

[Caroline1]

No no no no no! Turkish coffee IS coffee...! Ground fine into a powder, then brewed. Usually with some amount of sugar. Arabic coffee has, among other herbs, cardamom.

Back in the days when sheiks sat on piles of priceless carpets in their tents instead of in the air conditioned back seats of their limousines, the chore of mixing the spices and coffee beans often fell to the guest of honor. A tray holding the roasting pan (similar to a frying pan), a container of (usually) green, as in unroasted, coffee beans, and several bowls of "condiments" such as cardamom, cinnamon, etc., were set before the guest of honor, who then mixed the proportions of whole green coffee beans and spices to his preference. The host then took the roasting pan and roasted the beans over a small stove or open fire. The mixture was then placed in a hand held grinder and turned into a powder from which the Arab coffee was brewed.

The brewing process for Arab and Turkish coffee are pretty much the same, but the pot is different. This is a traditional Turkish cezve or ibrik:
http://www.turkishcorner.com/product-p/hcp0000b.htm

And this is the traditional Arab coffee pot:
http://www.dreamstime.com/arabiccoffeepot-image182664

I have one that is nearly identical to this one. My uncle brought it to me from Saudi Arabia several decades ago. The great fun of Arab coffee pots is that the tucan-like beak allows you to put a lot of distance between the spout and the cup!

And this is a traditional coffee grinder:
http://www.turkishcorner.com/product-...

The coffee grinder/mill comes apart in two places: The top comes off revealing the folded-for-storage crank arm that fits over the square shaft sticking out of the top in the picture. Then the bottom comes off and is the receptacle for the ground coffee. And they work just like the human body: Use it or lose it. I haven't used my coffee grinder in a long enough time that it's nearly frozen in place!

Anyway, it may be a by-product of "fusion cooking," but I've noticed over the last decade or so that more and more people are claiming that Turkish coffee has cardamom in it. There may be a trend in that direction (or not), but it certainly isn't traditional in Turkish coffee.

[Eat_Nopal]

Thanks Caroline.... I believe Cafe de Olla is a direct descendant from Turkish coffee (many of the grinds that have historically been available in Mexico have been as fine)... I am not sure exactly the transition path from Turkey to Mexico.... it would of course involve Spain... but there are so many elements of Turkish cuisine in Mexico (use of Nuts & Dried Fruits etc.,).. and in addition to old cookbooks actually referencing things like "Al Turqo" or "Dulces Arabescos" etc.,

So to Hamburger Today.... I don't have any solid research but I would be surprised if Coffee didn't quickly follow Colonization in the 16th Century... but Coffee just never became the primary warm beverage because it was trumped by the more popular Chocolate.

[Caroline1]

Just based on the fact that cafe de olla is made with piloncillo, cinnamon, anise, and Viennese roast coffee, leads me to think it's a concoction intended to make coffee seem closer to Mexican hot chocolate.

Turkish coffee is made with coffee beans, freshy roasted and freshly ground, white sugar, and water. The sweeter the occasion, the sweeter the coffee. The brewing method is mix coffee, sugar, and appropriate amount of water in the cezve, stir vigorously, put on flame and watch closely. Allow to start to boil, then remove from flame three times. Spoon froth evenly among cups, pour coffee, serve. The foam on top is similar, but not exactly like, a rich crema on espresso. And the "difference" between Greek and Turkish coffee is that Greek coffee is always served with an accompanying glass of ice water. With Turkish coffee, it's optional. Otherwise they are identical.

Turkish coffee must be allowed to rest a bit before drinking. Gravity is your friend! It will settle the fine particles to the bottom of the cup. Then once you've drunk about half the cup, slow down and drink cautiously. There will be about 1/3 of a cup of thick coffee mud in the bottom of the cup. The tradition is to sip as much liquid off the top, then invert the cup over the saucer and let the "mud" wander down the insides of the cup for a fortune teller to read for you. I''ve had lots of fortunes told but other than happiness in my future, I don't think many of them came true. Like winning the lottery...? When's THAT gonna happen? '-)

Anyway, cafe de olla does, in some ways, resemble Arabic coffee, in that Arabs, especially in Saudi, use spices in their coffee. Turks just go for plain coffee, and strong enough to make a super strong espresso seem like lemonade! But curiously, no matter how strong Turkish coffee is, it never gives me the shakey hands and heeby jeebies of strong coffee that has been boiled. And neither does strong espresso. I think boiling or percolating ruins coffee.

[paulj]

Using cinamon and panela (raw sugar) as a base for a drink is wide spread in Latin America. In Ecuador it is often spiked with rum making a 'hot toddy' (canelazo). In Columbia the non-alcoholic beverage is called aguapanela.

Then there's the version made with a minimum of water, miel de panela, that is common in sweets, the moistener for capirotada (Mexican bread pudding), a dip for pristinos (Ecuador), and poaching liquid for dulce de higos (candied green figs, Ecuador).

paulj

[Eat_Nopal]

Thats funny.... the Mexican version of Canelazo is made with Alcohol de Cana (about 190 proof? or so).. and called Canelita. I guess we are more macho than the Ecuadorians =)

[cristina]

How in the world can something called a canelita, such a sweet little diminutive, be more macho than something called a canelazo, a big ol' cinnamon hit in the face!

Of course here in Michoacán we put in a piquete of charanda--also alcohol de caña--but we still call it canelita!

Link: http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

[Eat_Nopal]

Because to Mexicans its just a sweet diminutive (meaning there are other more bold, powerful things)... while to the Ecuadoreans... its big bold thing.

BTW, my great-grandpa... a well known regional revolutionary (Anti-Cristero) leader in the highlands warmed his belly up every morning to a Canelita prior to heading out for heavy ranch work, took breaks to roll his own Tabaco, kept several concubines and lived to a ripe age.... todo un macho =)

[Anonimo]

I can describe only the coffee scene near where we live in Michoacán, and to some degree in México, DF.

Cafe con leche is virtually unknown in Pátzcuaro, Michoacán. You can get something like it if you explain it to the server. National and international coffee house chains (Lilian's, Italian Coffee Company, Café Europa) are very popular in Morelia and larger cities.. Locally owned cafeterías thrive in hip enclaves, such as Mexico City's Colonia Roma. Starbucks is making headway in larger cities nationwide. You can get espresso drinks at a bar in "better" supermarkets, but the bars are often partially unstaffed or the barista doesn't have a good knowledge of the subject.

Bad Cafe de Olla is served in some lower to middle scale restaurants here. It's often inferior coffee made worse by a feeble cover up of cinnamon and piloncillo..

You can still get crappy Nescafé instant and hot water at cheaper places and in bus stations. However, we got decent espresso drinks at a kiosk in Mexico City's TAPO bus station.

You can get some killer coffee in "provincial" Uruapan, at Café Tradicional or Café La Lucha

I think of traditionally served café con leche as a Veracruz habit, picked up and replicated with considerable success by the Cafes "Chinos" in México, DF. A tall glass of café con leche, (brewed in an urn!) is pretty good in the morning, with some pan dulce, at Bisquets, Bisquets de Obregón. For a better experience even, try El Cardenal. Actually, I LOVED their chocolate caliente and the coffee was "pretty good".

This is a long and deep subject, and I don't have an comprehensive answer.

[HamburgerToday]

Very well articulated. Thank you. Any thoughts on what Northern Mexico/Border Mexico population might consume?

My theory is that Milk as an ingredient was a commodity when coffee was introduced to Mexico and that it may be somewhat a "contemporary" ingredient. I would also think that the use of sweetened condensed milk may have some validity within the preference as it is inexpensive, and stores well with no refrigeration. Any thoughts?

[cristina]

Anónimo, I completely disagree with your assessment of the Michoacán coffee scene.

Café con leche is one of the most common forms of coffee service in this state. Café con leche is never brewed in an urn. It's most like espresso, served in a glass with hot milk. Traditionally, your server pours the quantity that you want of espresso--from a metal pitcher into a tall glass--and then fills the glass with hot milk, poured from another metal pitcher. More recently, café con leche is no longer made at table, but rather at the espresso machine. It looks more like a latte, or a cappuchino without cinnamon.

I've asked for and received café con leche in every restaurant in Pátzcuaro. It's on everyone's menu. I'm not talking about fondas or puestos, but brick-and-mortar restaurants.

Your assessment of café de olla is also not my experience. Café de olla has been delicious wherever I've had it.

I do agree with what you say about the coffee from Café Tradicional Uruapan. It's fantastic. There was a time when that company maintained a store in Pátzcuaro, but it closed several years ago. Café Lucha isn't to my taste, but that's just me.

HamburgerToday, I haven't seen sweetened condensed milk used in coffee anywhere in Mexico. Lots of individual packets of 'creamer' show up on tables here, though.

By and large, northern Mexico does not drink café con leche.

Link: http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

[Anonimo]

As I said, Cristina, I don't have a comprehensive view of what the coffee scene is here. Those were just my impressions.

The waiters at the Gran Hotel in Pátzcuaro have started serving me, at my request, cafe Americano con leche caliente al lado. I guess that's the local version of cafe con leche, but it's quite different from the Veracruz style.

You wrote:
" More recently, café con leche is no longer made at table, but rather at the espresso machine. It looks more like a latte, or a cappuchino without cinnamon."
I think that's an accurate interpretation.

And, as far as I could tell, the café con leche at Bisquits, Bisquits de Obregón, in their "matriz" location in el DF, is urn-brewed. But, I could be mistaken.

I haven't had a decent café de olla yet, in recent memory, at least not in Pátzcuaro. Most of it is terrible.

There's an outlet of Café Tradicional de Uruapan in Quiroga, in the Hotel Tarasco. I have had coffee to drink there, but I've bought their beans.

[Anonimo]

An update: Yesterday, we breakfasted at the restaurant, "Fonda Mamá Lupe", on Calle Benito Mendoza in Pátzcuaro. The Cafe de Olla was decent, better than I remembered from numerous past visits there. (It's a good and very inexpensive restaurant for breakfasts; less satisfactory for comida.)

After, we walked a block to the rather more grand Restaurant La Surtidora, on the Plaza Grande (Vasco de Quiroga) to buy coffee beans They offer several varieties, in both regular and dark roasts. I bought a kilo of Caracolillo for 80 pesos. We're drinking it now, and it's excellent. I can't say I know from where it originates.

[HamburgerToday]

Thanks Cristina, Help me to understand. It sounds to me like the "service" of Cafe con Leche is more of an affluent type drink. Would you say that the people that you are most familiar with would drink it in their homes?

What do you think is the most consumed coffee beverage in your assessment (including just plain black)?

[cristina]

You mean an 'affluent type drink' like, say, Johnnie Walker Blue compared to Thunderbird? I'd have to say no. I think, however, you could compare the consumption of café con leche in Mexico to that of café au lait in France. They're pretty much the same thing: a small amount of very strong coffee served with a large amount of very hot milk, sweetened or not.

I think the most consumed coffee beverage in Mexico is still the ubiquitous Nescafé (or as it is occasionally called, No Es Café). If I'm in a fonda or puesto and order café, Nescafé is most likely what I'll be served. A cup of hot water, the Nescafé jar, and a spoon...a packet of creamer and a bowl of sugar... If I want something more drinkable, I can order a cup of hot milk and add the same Nescafé and its accoutrements.

Up until recently, most of Mexico hasn't really been a knowledgeable coffee-drinking culture. Café de olla and café con leche have been two staples of coffee drinking here, but the most common hot drinks in Mexico are teas (including what you might call tisanes of every description), atoles, and hot chocolate. Eat_Nopal gives a wonderful outline in his post time-stamped 3.18PM today.

Speaking of which, although atole de grano is CALLED an atole, it's not really in the same class as the others. Atole de grano is a soup, made with anise and corn (both on and off the cob) and eaten with a spoon, not drunk. There are relatively few atoles salados (savory). Atole de grano and atole de haba are two I love.

Isn't it interesting that this thread was 'deleted' by the moderators but lives on over here out of sight! I love it.

Link: http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

[The Chowhound Team]

This thread was moved from the Mexico board to the General Topics board by the Chowhound Team, as it discusses coffee in Mexico generally, and not where to get great coffee in Mexico.

[Snackish]

I actually kinda like Nescafe Clasico. I drink it at work every day because it is either that or Starbuck's beans brewed at half strength for full price in the company cafeteria.

[Eat_Nopal]

At last count there are about 70 Starbucks in Mexico City.... fortunately rather than put the traditional Book Store / Cafes out of biz they are helping to energize local Chains & Coffee Houses.

Coffee has always had a challenge in Mexico.... most indigenous & rural / traditional communities have historically favored Chocolate.... and so for decades Sanka was the most common Coffee available in most eateries.... almost always had with at least one of Cream or Sugar.

The exception was the Coffee growing regions like Xalapa, Oaxaca, Colima, Chiapas etc., where there has always been good Altura artisinal coffee available for connoiseurs to drink black... and of course places like coastal Veracruz & Campeche etc., where Cafe con Leche is a deep rooted local custom.

Cafe de Olla is a common rural tradition in many parts of Mexico particularly Jalisco & the Bajio... usually made from whole cinammon sticks & piloncillo brewed into a tea... then followed by ground Bustelo or Legal etc., for a quick brewing... usually prepared for immediate consumption & always good. However, in Urban eateries... it often has mean making a the Cinammon-Piloncillo tea... letting it sit on a counter or refrigerator then heating with Sanka to order.

Coffee has a long history in Mexico but it has always been challenged by affinity towards Chocolate, Atoles, Canela & other "tea" etc., nonetheless there have always been a relatively small number of connoiseurs enjoying artisinal, usually single source beans (because many of those connoisseurs where traditional from places where the beans were actually grown).... overtime as coffee growing places have seen rapid emigration artisinal coffee culture began spreading to Urban Mexico... as a case you have the Oaxacan Mixtec immigrants in Baja California who have made a a living distributing coffee from their towns or plantations where relatives work... in street corners, roadside shacks etc.,

[HamburgerToday]

Great info - I don't know if you have any experience with the U.S. Starbucks but if so, what would you define as major differences in the Mexican version?

Also, my knowledge (not experience) is that Coffee in general is somewhat of a late arrival of indigenous ingredients. You mention "chocolates, Atoles, teas, etc.." What would you define as the most popular and how would a chocolate drink normally be consumed? as well as an atole? I've seen various types of Atole throughout Latin America and including my Home New Mexico.

I really appreciate your input.

[Eat_Nopal]

I don't make a point of going to Starbucks in Mexico.... last one I was in seemed very similar to U.S. joints except the pastries where fresh & quite good. But everything else - including prices - seemed the same.

Chocolate is the most popular. Typically (as in most cups)... involve tablets of Ibarra, Abuelita or Mayordomo.... these are cacoa nibs ground with cinammon, sugar & vanilla pods formed into a little round "brick". It is then simmered in water until dissolved but still a tiny bit gritty. Some people enjoy black... others add milk & sugar... its all done to taste.

In more traditional settings where Chocolate has been revered for thousands of years... Tabasco, Chiapas, Oaxaca, Northern Veracruz, Tlaxcala etc., people roast their own beans & do a wet grinding with a volcanic stone mortar & pestle then simmer for a long time with flavorings such as Vanilla, Cinammon or Dried Chiles etc., It is finally barely kissed with some honey and had nice & dark.

Atoles are more of any everyday drink in rural, indigenous communities. There are numerous posts that go into details.. but suffice to say there are hundreds of Atole flavorings from the Anise like Atole de Grano in Michoacan to Spicy Amaranth Atoles in Tlaxcala to Blackberry Atoles in Mexico State etc.,

[Eat_Nopal]

"there have always been a relatively small number of connoiseurs enjoying artisinal, usually single source beans (because many of those connoisseurs where traditional from places where the beans were actually grown).... overtime as coffee growing places have seen rapid emigration artisinal coffee culture began spreading to Urban Mexico... "

You got to love CHers: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/375792#3748946

http://www.chowhound.com/photos/186627