51880 Tue Oct 22 13:35:39 -0700 2002 7 2 Los Angeles Area 0 264180 What do you want or are willing to pay for a glass of wine? (Cross-posted from general topics board to get a local response.) Tue Oct 22 13:35:39 -0700 2002 0 JudiAU 1 264213 on a per glass basis ? Generally the bottle wholesale price becomes the per-glass. Thus a Cline California Zinfandel (a common house by-the-glass pour) which retails near $10, wholesales for $6.50-$7.00 becomes a $ 7 per glass wine. Or, Casa Lapostelle (South American red) which retails around $8 goes in restaurants for $6 or $7. Wish this were not the case and many places truly "gouge". Recall reading a rave review of Chalone Pinot Blanc one day; about $15 retail then at retail and I saw it at lunch for $11.50 per glass; as though it were something "exotic". I bought two glasses; loved the wine and hated myself for paying the bucks. Tue Oct 22 20:00:43 -0700 2002 264180 0 Bob S II 2 264236 Okay, so the average glass price is equal to the average wholesale price of the bottle. $8 a bottle wholesale, $11 a bottle retail, $8 a glass in the restaurant, $32 a bottle, Roughly 300% markup. What do you think is a reasonable markup? Do you calculate from retail pricing or from what you suspect is the wholesale price? Is this reasonable? 5 5 oz. servings from a the same bottle at $5, bottle at $22 Wed Oct 23 12:18:35 -0700 2002 264213 0 JudiAU 3 264315 Sorry, Judi; I'm not trying to be evasive but if the wine is something I want or am presently "intrigued with" (as in the previously mentioned pinot blanc), I'll pay just about anything and not hesitate. It is when I feel "gouged" for wine readily available on the shelves of any Ralph's grocery that I start to resist and get annoyed. As so many restaurants look to outrageous markups to keep them in business, one by one I start to eliminate the offending places from places I'll go. Unlike others, I will not resort to only drinking iced tea. Wine is an integral part of "dining" for me. Thus "reasonable" is a fluid concept for me; subject to frequent revision. Thu Oct 24 10:13:44 -0700 2002 264236 0 Bob S II 1 264298 I'd like to see a fair correlation with the per bottle price on the same list. So if a bottle has five glasses, I would like to know that I would not be overly penalized for buying five glasses of the same wine, although I would expect to pay something more. Thu Oct 24 00:21:42 -0700 2002 264180 0 Dbird 2 264305 Although there is no standard measurement for a glass of wine in the U.S. (unlike the UK), the general "by the glass" serving in many restaurants is about six ounces, or four glasses per bottle (the five ounce serving looks a little slim to most customers whose primary concern is getting a full glass). You might want to keep this in mind when calculating the cost per glass vs. by the bottle. I almost always prefer to purchase wine by the bottle in a restaurant for several reasons: -the bottle of wine for a by-the-glass serving may have been open too long and the wine may be overly oxidized -wine by the glass is usually overpoured to or near the rim in less-than-ideal stemware -the by-the-bottle selection is almost always much bigger (and there's a greater chance of finding a reasonable bargain) -cheaper by the bottle -less of a hassle to demand quality stemware and proper glass fill that gives the wine plenty of room for aeration As far as markup goes, I would say that no more than 50 percent above retail is fair for recent vintages ($75 for a bottle that would cost you $50 in a store; $30 for a bottle that would be $20 in a store, etc.). This is a more than generous profit considering that the restaurant most likely purchased the wine for a wholesale price. I think that restaurants with a vast selection of older vintages deserve about 75 to 100 percent above the going market value - if it's $200 at a wine dealer I think $350 to $400 is fair, but only if the restaurant purchased the wine from a source that can confirm its proper storage (throughout its "lifespan") and if they have taken the care to store it properly themselves, or they purchased the wine shortly after its release and have stored it properly until it's reached its peak serving window. I think the restaurant deserves this extra amount only because they have invested in the space and proper storage conditions, which adds a "maintenance" cost. Of course, I applaud (and will frequently patronize) restaurants where the markup is less than these amounts. If a restaurant has an extremely rare wine, they can probably charge whatever they want because you probably aren't going to find it too many other places. Personally, I think it's criminal for a restaurant to serve an inexpensive wine like Los Vascos or Meridien Chardonnay at a price per glass that's about the same as it would cost you to buy a bottle. But then again, lots of bars sell cheap beer for about the price it would cost you to buy a six pack. Thu Oct 24 01:38:02 -0700 2002 264298 0 Chris G. 3 264316 Excellent points as to why the bottle choice is always wiser. That and not having to chase the waiter to get another glass ordered. I like, of course, your rationale of 50% above retail as a good restaurant price. If only ! In my response to Judi (below) I mention gradually avoiding restaurants that "gouge" no matter how compelling the kitchen. Here's an example... a terrific New Zealand sauvignon blanc found for $14 -$16 at retail (the $16 being MSRP); $48 (!) per bottle in a favorite restaurant. Sorry. I'll go elsewhere. At least ask me to bend over when you want to... you know what I mean. Thu Oct 24 10:22:01 -0700 2002 264305 0 Bob S II 4 264322 Thanks to both of you for the intersting comments. Yeah, I suppose I know 6 oz. is a standard pour. We have been playing around with using some squat glasses like the ones used in Barcelona tapas bars and they function better with a 5 oz. pour. I think they work well for cheap and friendly wine. However, since we will have more interesting, more expensive wines that need real stemware, I am not sure if it is possible to serve both. Either way, I really appreciate the comments about the pricing of readily available wine and older more obscure producers and vintages. Thu Oct 24 12:15:21 -0700 2002 264316 0 JudiAU