512917 Fri Apr 25 07:52:26 -0700 2008 10 34 Wine 0 3628711 I tried Amity Gamay Noir (Oregon) several months ago and am hooked. I really like it. But, is there such a thing as a Gamay Noir grape? Isn't it just Gamay? Fri Apr 25 07:52:28 -0700 2008 43622 JenBoes 1 3628827 The true name of the grape is "Gamay noir au jus blanc" -- "Black Gamay with Wihte Juice." This is the fabled grape of Beaujolais, France (and the Loire Valley, too). But "Gamay noir au jus blanc" is rather long for an American wine label, and so the Feds approved a shorter version, "Gamay Noir." There were, for a time, two grapes grown in California called "Gamay": one was called "Gamay Beaujolais," because it was the Gamay grape of Beaujolais, France; and the other was called "Napa Gamay," because -- well, because it was a type of Gamay grape grown in the Napa Valley of California. Then, in the late-1960s, they figured out they got it backwards: "Napa Gamay" was really the grape found in French Beaujolais, and the grape called "Gamay Beaujolais" was, in fact, a clone (variant) of Pinot Noir! So the Feds ruled that . . . IF you made a varietal wine from the GRAPE called "Gamay Beaujolais", you could label your wine -- Gamay Beaujolais (the name of the grape); -- Gamay (just to avoid any confusion); or, -- Pinot Noir (because, after all, that's what it really was). IF you made a varietal wine from the GRAPE called "Napa Gamay", you could label your wine -- Napa Gamay (the name of the grape); or, -- Gamay (just to avoid any confusion). THEN . . . it turned out, in the mid-1970s, they discovered they got it wrong again! Yes, "Gamay Beaujolais" was really a clone of Pinot Noir, but "Napa Gamay" wasn't really Gamay at all but rather an obscure French cultivar known as "Valdiguié." This is only one of the reasons why the ORIGINAL Charles F. Shaw Winery was founded (by Charles F. Shaw himself) has a winery dedicated to the TRUE Gamay Noir grape -- he obtained cuttings directly from people in Beaujolais, France! Cheers, Jason Fri Apr 25 08:23:59 -0700 2008 3628711 28122 zin1953 2 3629206 Wow, that made my head spin!!! When I visited wineries in the Niagara Peninsula there were a lot of Gamay wines there... Would those be from the Pinot Noir clone? Fri Apr 25 10:05:48 -0700 2008 3628827 128359 jcoz23 2 3629459 Thanks for the great information. How do you know all this? I also have another question: What is the difference between a wine with a lable that says "Beaujolais" and a wine with a label that says "Gamay"? I really don't remember trying Beaujolais but there are French Gamays that our local wine store carries in the summer that we chill before drinking. To me, they have a taste similar to Chablis. The Amity Gamay Noir has a heavier taste, is consumed at room temperature, and doesn't really taste similar to the chilled Gamays I mentioned above. Fri Apr 25 10:58:43 -0700 2008 3628827 43622 JenBoes 3 3629948 A red wine labelled Beaujolais is always going to be 100% Gamay, and grown in the Beaujolais region. A wine from France labeled as Gamay was probably grown outside the AOC system and could be from just about anywhere in the country (most likely though the southwest). You can also get Gamay from certain appellations in the Loire, but I don't think it really does that well there. If you really want to know what the grape should taste like, ask for a Cru Beaujolais next time you are in your wine store. Fri Apr 25 13:04:33 -0700 2008 3629459 86802 vanillagorilla 4 3633432 Thanks for the info. I will definitely give a Cru Beaujolais a try. Sun Apr 27 06:48:19 -0700 2008 3629948 43622 JenBoes 5 3634457 Within the French region of Beaujolais, there are two "parts" -- the Haut-Beaujolais in the north, and Bas-Beaujolais (or more commonly, just "Beaujolais") in the south. Most appellation d'origine contrôlée (AOC) regulations are designed somewhat like a pyramid. (Bear with me for a moment.) Beaujolais is produced from one of two grapes: Gamay Noir à jus blanc makes all of the various kinds of the more familiar "red" Beaujolais (see below), while Chardonnay is used to produce Beaujolais Blanc. (No more discussion of white wine; what follows is all about red.) Appellation Beaujolais Contrôllée -- sometimes called "straight" Beaujolais -- is the most basic of the AOC wines from the Beaujolais region. Indeed, this appellation accounts for almost 50 percent of all Beaujolais produced. One step "up" from this is the Appellation Beaujolais Superieur Contrôllée; its sole distinction is the higher degree of minimum potential alcohol, 10.5 degrees, rather than 10.0. This appellation exists, but is seldom seen. Both have a maximum yield of 55 hectoliters per hectare (Hl/ha). Then is the most well known -- Appellation Beaujolais-Villages Contrôllée. All (almost all?) of the 39 specific villages are in the Haut-Beaujolais. The yields are dropped to 50 HL/ha. For the ten Crus de Beaujolais*, yields are dropped further, to 48 Hl/ha. All are required to reach a minimum of 11.0 degrees of potential alcohol (IIRC), with Côte de Brouilly required to be 0.5 degree higher. These are the pinnacle of quality when it comes to Beaujolais, and are can be truly outstanding, world-class wines. Cheers, Jason * You will find these labeled not as "Cru de Beaujolais," but as one of the ten specific crus. These are (in alphabetical order) Brouilly, Chénas, Chiroubles, Côte de Brouilly, Fleurie, Juliénas, Morgon, Moulin-à-Vent, Réginé, and Saint-Amour. Sun Apr 27 15:08:05 -0700 2008 3633432 28122 zin1953 6 3657974 Jason, Thanks for the great info. I haven't been able to make it to the wine store yet but I did find a bottle of the "straight" Beaujolais of the Louis Jadot label in our local Hannaford. We're going to try it tonight and hopefully try some others when I'm able to make it to the wine store (I live in rural, rural Maine). Mon May 05 10:58:02 -0700 2008 3634457 43622 JenBoes 1 3633197 My guess is they are "fancying up" the name to charge more for the wines. Good Beaujolais can be had (even with the terrible exchange rate of the dollar to the euro) for less than $20. If this stuff costs more, I'd nix it quick! Sun Apr 27 00:57:29 -0700 2008 3628711 52499 ChefJune 2 3635983 Maybe, but Amity is an old respected producer in Oregon. Grape varieties tried in different climates and different soils can produce different (and sometimes better) wines. Look at what has happened to SB in New Zealand. Mon Apr 28 07:53:08 -0700 2008 3633197 40270 Ed Dibble 2 3636132 This is just the way things are in this country. Gamay is not a very widely grown grape here. Because of that it's going to be more expensive. Grapes that make wine at a good price in Europe are often priced wacky here, simply because of supply and demand. For instance, the grape that cost the most per ton in Washington last year was Cabernet Franc. Why is that? Well, so many producers want a bit of it for their Bordeaux blends that there is barely enough to go around. Because of that, people who bottle it as a single varietal have to charge more. Mon Apr 28 08:29:22 -0700 2008 3633197 86802 vanillagorilla