51123 Fri Aug 02 10:49:42 -0700 2002 10 2 Los Angeles Area 0 259432 Hi Looking for a place open on a Sunday evening for a birthday dinner. Wine list is most important (interesting and varied, not overpriced a plus :) with food a close second. We are not looking for a blowout - this shouldn't be stratospheric in price. We also don't need a see-and-be-seen "hotter than hot" kind of place, although that would be OK if the wine and food are great and they aren't snobby. We'll be in Brentwood, I think, so something that doesn't require driving to San Diego would be nice, but we'll consider any suggestions :) thank you! Fri Aug 02 10:49:42 -0700 2002 0 leek from chicago 1 259436 Hope one of the Hounds can come thru for you, however, there seems to be a synchronicity between spots with good wine lists and high end food. You might consider Byob to some place that charges little or no corkage, e.g., one of the Bizou locations. Otherwise, as restaurants that have respectable food and aren't that expensive, I'd recommend: Axe, 1009 Abbott Kinney Blvd., Venice (sort of an eclectic LA kinda peaceful place), Sparks, 11801 Ventura Blvd., Studio City (Italian, probably has the most extensive wine list of these recs), and Angeli Cafe, 7274 Melrose Ave., LA (Italian). Stop press! How about tapas at Cobras & Matadors, 7615 W. Beverly Blvd., LA and you can buy wines at the store next door or bring your own (better call now for reservations--323/932-6178)? Fri Aug 02 11:44:43 -0700 2002 259432 0 mc michael 1 259437 Primitivo near Axe and Joe's on Abbot Kinney Blvd. in Venice is rumored to have a very good list, and good food. Cafe Bizou in the Water Garden in Santa Monica on Colorado has a good corkage policy, if they are open on Sunday eve. Joe's on Abbot Kinney probably has the best food of this list, and a very good list, but is also probably harder to get in for a group on Sunday eve. Nonetheless, definitely worth a try. Fri Aug 02 12:20:13 -0700 2002 259432 0 carter 1 259463 Lucques has a great list though it is on the pricey side, but I'm not sure whether it is overpriced or not. The Sangiovese I order there is not marked up more than usual (Luna), but you are not getting a deal. Food is wonderful, and Sunday is a prix fix and very reasonable for food. Primitivo was mentioned, and while the list is very interesting, the food is not all that good and the service can be poor - basically, they offer 1/2 glasses of wine, which would be great for tasting and food/wine pairings, but the servers have never been able to bring the wine when I want it. I think Zax has a really interesting, inexpensive list. I always have a wine I've never had before when I go there. It's in Brentwood, though perhaps you already know that place (the food is great!). I do think BYOB might be a good way to go, and Cobras is terrific, as suggested by another poster. Fri Aug 02 13:41:03 -0700 2002 259432 0 Megan 1 259486 The best and most comprehensive wine list in LA is at Valentino. At last count, Peiro had well over 150,000 bottles in his collection/inventory. Alessandro is the sommelier and while they are an upper end restaurant, good deals CAN be found on their wine list. If I were you, I'd call ahead... visit if you can, pick a couple of bottles off the list and have them design a 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (however many you'd like) course menu to pair with the wines you've selected. I've eaten there several times, and have yet to see a menu. This pairing idea is a BIG specialty of theirs and they execute it flawlessly. If you are really in the mood for a good wine-centric dinner, this is the best thing going in LA, and while they are on the upper end price wise, the value is very, very good. Their URL is www.welovewine.com, and they are located on Pico (near Bundy) in Santa Monica, so not too far from Brentwood. Highly recommended. Link: http://www.welovewine.com Fri Aug 02 16:27:58 -0700 2002 259432 0 woo! 2 259494 Valentino is a very good restaurant with a huge wine list. The wine list is pretty pricey, though you can dig (if you're savvy) and find some reasonables. I would say the experience is very expensive, especially for those not used to "big ciy dining". Tasting menus can be very,very expensive. Fri Aug 02 18:04:27 -0700 2002 259486 0 john gonzales 3 259512 Imagine Kar is planning a "quick" visit to NY? ONE MILLION DOLLARS A DAY! Oops too much Austin Powers, but in real time Valentinos is Kinda of a deal in a certain way, believe me! Sat Aug 03 00:38:12 -0700 2002 259494 0 russkar 4 259539 It's not a matter of believing anyone. I think "value", "deal" and even "expensive" are all relative. I don't question that Valentino is a fine establishment and have been many times. It seems to me that Russ & Woo are accustomed to dining at many of the top establishments. I enjoy the posts, get lots of tips, and recall Woo's big wine dinner at Valentino. I would think to most people Valentino is pretty expensive, and not much of a deal. I'd imagine pricewise, across the U.S. it is in the top .5%. Relying on zagat (I know not a tell-all) there are only 4 more expensive places in L.A.. Dinner for four there is usually in the neighborhood of $300, including tax and tip but BEFORE alcohol. The water bill for four can be $50. Tasting menus are great, but I've found they end up more than ordering courses off the menu. I'd say if four people had two bottles of wine ($60 avg. retail) and a five course tasting menu; the out-the-door would be around $600 for the agreed geat meal. Money aside, Valentino would be the choice. I guess I think it depends on ones perspective on the given amount of cash. I agree the wine list is incredibly extensive. I too am a wine collector and have a wife in the business of selling wine to restaurants. Personally I would prefer a list with a quarter the selection, at 80% of the price, but that's another discussion. The mark-up at Valentino is not below average. Many of the choice bottles are over 3 times wholesale cost or low auction cost. There are some wines at below average mark-up, however one has to be savvy, search for them, and be flexible. Sat Aug 03 20:05:42 -0700 2002 259512 0 john gonzales 3 259520 I will say that Valentino is nowhere near the cheapest place in town, but conversely, it's also nowhere near the most expensive. Their wine list is VERY comprehensive and although some wines are expensive ('82 Petrus, for example), I guarantee you will find some deals on the list as well. I guess we probably should have asked the original poster what type of wine they were looking for, and what the price ranges were.... As far as "big city dining" if the original poster is from Chicago (as stated in their handle), I'm certain they are very familiar with going out to eat in a big city. After all Chicago is a very big restaurant town. And my experience is that a tasting menu (especially of Valentino's caliber) for $65 to $85 is a good value, certainly NOT very, very expensive. If in fact the original poster is looking for a place with a great wine list and they are serious wine drinkers and/or collectors, I'm certain they are familiar with paying much more for wine and food when dining out. My assumption was that the original poster was a fairly sophisticated diner who wanted to make sure they were getting value for their dollar, but at the same time, wanted to have a great wine/food experience. Sat Aug 03 10:20:12 -0700 2002 259494 0 woo! 4 259949 Hi - sorry not to get back sooner, it's been busy here :) Yes, as Woo wrote, I guess we are "a fairly sophisticated diner who wanted to make sure they were getting value for their dollar, but at the same time, wanted to have a great wine/food experience." And we are from Chicago, and have eaten fine meals at expensive places, chow meals at holes in the wall, and we've had a few too many meals at Red Lobster (hey, my grandpa loved the biscuits, what ya gonna do? ;) I am not from LA, but we will be there on my husband's birthday. I wanted to suggest a place to his dad, who will probably be taking us out to dinner, but I didn't want to pick the most expensive place out there - we want to have a nice dinner, not an "ultimate experience" and I don't want them to think we're picking a place because it IS expensive. thanks much! Sat Aug 10 14:41:36 -0700 2002 259520 0 leek from chicago 1 259495 Cafe Bizou often fills our void for wine/food/price combo. The list is small and very reasonable. We usually byob as they thrive on this. Plenty of great shops nearby. Food is not fantastic, but I feel, pretty good. It is also reaonably priced. Zax's food is excellent, moderately expensive good medium sized list of mostly Cali. Corkage $15. Joe's food also excellent, again good list. Josie's food is fantastic, it's a bit pricier. The list is very good, average prices. I think corkage is $20, though stemware and wine service are very good. Valentino is excellent. I like Josie's food more. The list is all-worldly in selection and often price. Fri Aug 02 18:14:55 -0700 2002 259432 0 john gonzales