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Apr 12, 2008 02:08 PM

jim i crazy?

so having been a bit short of cash at the bar last night i decided to order a jim beam on the rocks instead of the usual knob creek. granted it was not was not knob---but i have to admit that i enjoyed it and even had a second.
am i crazy? what do you think of mr jb?

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  1. I use Mr Beam when I make mint juleps, he does a good job.

    1. Knob Creek (as well as Booker's, Baker's and Basil Hayden) is essentially the same whiskey as Jim Beam. Beam picks selected barrels to go into Knob and the other small batches from the Beam floor, so it's not necesarilly crazy. Knob is supposed to have a somewhat smoother profile, but it's made from the same mash bill and aged in the same barrels.

      7 Replies
      1. re: sku

        Hey sku -- I work with Jim Beam, particularly with the small batch collection, and wanted to offer up some info that might help clarify your comment. We're thrilled you're talking about the small batch collection and Jim Beam, but wanted to assure you that Knob Creek is not made from the same mash bill. Beam's mash bill is not the same as as Basil Hayden or Bookers, either.

        Also, Jim Beam White is aged four years so it’s not going to have the same flavor profile it would have if it sat in a barrel five more years, or it had twice the rye in its mash bill like Basil Hayden’s. There is also a difference in bottling proof, which changes the profile as well. As for the same barrels, yes the bourbon is aged in Independent Stave barrels, as are most bourbons in Kentucky. And yes, the bourbons are made by the same folks.

        We would encourage you, or anyone, to taste them side by side. We think you'll notice the differences.

        If you want to know more about the specifics, you can ask the Whiskey Professors (Steve, Dave and Bernie helped me clarify all this info before I responded) on the Knob Creek website at

        Thanks again for the discussion. We'd love to hear your thoughts when you compare them side-by-side.

        Jason Falls (here for conversation, not advertisement)

        1. re: JasonFalls

          Jason, thanks for your correction and I apologize if I mischaracterized your product.

          However, I could have sworn that this information was in a recent issue of Malt Advocate or Whisky Magazine. I'll look for it and report back. Is that how it used to be done.

          Also, I thought that the origination of the small batch collection was that Booker and Baker would pull their favorite casks of JB off the floor and bottle it for their friends.

          1. re: sku

            Oh, no problem at all. Just wanted to make sure I responded.

            As a make-sure, I kept pounding on the Whiskey Professors today. Bernie Lubbers sent me a pretty detailed description of mash bills and why having the same is nothing to be ashamed of ... lots of factors go into the taste profile ... proof at distillation, proof at bottling, time in the barrel, etc. He seemed to indicate that the same mash bill can still produce very different bourbons if you tweak other factors.

            Please do let me know if there was an article with that information. I'll gladly follow up and see if it or I was mistaken! Thanks and cheers!

            1. re: JasonFalls

              Jason, I would love to see that info about mash bills, how the batch was 'tweaked', etc.

              1. re: JMF

                Here's what Bernie emailed me. It makes a lot of sense. In addition to the distillation proof, bottle proof, age, etc., there's also the yeast factor. Different strains of yeast yield different taste effects. At any rate, here's Bernie's thing:

                "Most bourbon companies have just one grain bill. We have more than one. However, even IF we only had one grain bill, we could make several TOTALLY different bourbons by different ages and proofs. If I brought the same bourbon grain bill off the still at 120 proof, and one at 130, and another at 140, and then barreled them at 120, 125, and 125 (water added to last 2 to get to the maximum barrel proof of 125) and then aged the first for 4 years, the second for 6 years, and the third for 8 years, and then we bottled one at 80 proof, another at 90 proof, and another at 100 proof, we would have 3 very distinctively different bourbons."

                Hope that helps. I love the fact that we're having a conversation about it. I know you folks make me smarter about it. I'm not a novice, but I'm not a master bourbon brain, either.

                1. re: JasonFalls

                  I'm actually starting some research on types of toast and char in barrels, barrel proof, time, headspace, temperatures, and a whole bunch of other stuff. I have a university going to do chromatography and other tests to try and nail down exactly what happens in the barrel.

                  The bit about controlling proof out of the still is interesting as well. It all depends what type of still, how you run it. Slow, fast, etc.

                  I don't know if I agree with the comment that most companies have just one grain bill. Just about every distiller I have spoken to talks about their different grain bills depending upon the product.

              2. re: JasonFalls

                Absoultely agree on that, proof, age, barrel finish, etc. all go into making a whiskey distinct. I much prefer Booker's among the small batch, largely because of the higher proof I think.

                By the way, do you work for Beam Global? If so, can you give us any information about the new Ardmore being released for US sales? I'd be interested to know when it will come out, how widely it's being distributed, what expressiosn, etc.


        2. Maybe you're actuallty coming to your senses that this whole elite, skyrocket price thing is a charade - the emperor mostly wears no clothes. In my opinion Jim Beam is all you need. If you're drinking it neat, at room temp, then maybe you'll notice the difference between Maker's Mark or Jack, Then again you may prefer Beam. Otherwise, save your money and laugh at the dorks who insist on all that other artifice.

          8 Replies
            1. re: Papa Kip Chee

              I often buy the Jim Beam Black, and really like it. The Times did a review a few months ago and agreed

              1. re: mmalmad

                ya totally saw that review and for a price/quality ratio, good stuff.

            2. re: AlbertaHound

              No offense, but that's just crazy talk. Even if Jim Beam is your favorite, you can't tell me that there's no discernible difference between it and other bourbons. Yes, I drink it neat, but even on the rocks it's pretty easy to tell two brown liquors apart. It's not vodka. If you can tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi, you can certainly tell one bourbon from another.

              1. re: lennox53

                No offense taken. But still, I submit that the difference is subtle, even with bourbons. So...if you're mixing it, or even if you aren't savoring it, I say your income better be disposable if you're spending more than you do for Jim Beam.

                Just to be sure it's clear, I'm not saying all bourbon is that close to each other. The well swill is pretty bad, and will deliver you a hangover as easy as anything. But once you get to up the echelon of Beam, Jack, or even Ezra, my point is that the returns on the extra money you spend start to diminish to razor thin margins.

                Papa Kip Chee - Amen to you too brother!

              2. re: AlbertaHound

                There are definitely tasty gems of all sorts of spirits that can be found at a fair price, but I wouldn't go that far.

                1. re: AlbertaHound

                  If you're going to have more than 1 drink, then from the 2nd drink on I think you're throwing your money away.

                  What's even more idiotic is the folks spending $30 or more on a bottle (750ml) of vodka & then using it to make Cosmos. The prophet was right...this is one born every minute.

                  1. re: AlbertaHound

                    Never mind that many of the Old timey sounding, super pricey small batch bourbon's didn't even exist 15 years ago. Marketing baby all marketing.

                  2. I have a good friend of mine who is in his early 40's that only drinks JB White. That's it, nothing else, liquor wise. He has an occasional beer and glass of wine, but his whisky of choice is JB white label. He doesn't ever get anything else....

                    It blows my mind, but it's what he likes and that's what he sticks with. I've tried turning him on to slightly better whiskies, but he just keeps on plugg'n along with his half gallon of JB White a week.

                    I myself can't stand it. It's way to young and rough for me. Plus I don't like the "corn, peanut, charred oak" character found in a lot of bourbons. So JB and JD are out for my personal taste.

                    I'm more of a Buffalo Trace kind of guy.

                    But at the end of the day, it's what ever your happy with. But I would just suggest a couple of things.

                    Go out and buy a bottle of Buffalo Trace, JB white and Elijah Craig and test them neat. See if you can tell the difference in quality. If you really like the taste of JB white, I would guess that you might just like Elijah Craig a little bit more, because it's not as harsh, but at the same time, it has very close taste characteristics.

                    I drink my whisky neat and my pet peave is smelling ethanol. I like to "nose" my whisky almost as much as drink it. So I absolutely don't like young whisky.

                    But Elijah Craig is a pretty good budget whisky that always remains on my shelf and it's very close in price to JB white. But I don't dip into it very much. Like I said, my main bourbon is Buffalo Trace and Eagle Rare. But I prefer scotch more.

                    1. The normal Jim Beam white label is my favorite of all bourbons and whiskeys.

                      1 Reply
                      1. re: Sam Fujisaka

                        Tipping a glass in your memory right now, my friend.