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Zinc Bistro(Scottsdale) bad experience?

z
ziggylu Apr 7, 2008 05:12 PM

Anyone been here lately?

We found ourselves up in this part of world today with a few hours to kill while our car was being serviced so we had the dealer drop us off at Kierland and decided we'd stop in for lunch.

Zinc has always been one of our favorite spots and with the exception of a croque monsieur I ordered at lunch last year we've only had great experiences(and even that sandwich wasn't poorly prepared I just didn't care for it).

Last time we were up there was December and everything was fine.

Everything today was a disaster. The food(dry duck confit, terrible terrible terrible overdressed soggy crab salad), the service(practically nonexistant and rude when we were lucky enough to get a flyby by the server).

Just wondering if this was a one off experience or if it's representative of changes in the kitchen and the front of house(the service particularly was horrible today). We're reluctant to ever give them another try after this.

It's always disappointing to have a poor dining experience, at an old favorite it's really a bummer.

  1. k
    Kam7185 Apr 9, 2008 05:32 PM

    I've been three times, ordered all the "right things" and thought it was average at best. Honestly, nothing too redeeming about the place at all, except for the people watching!

    The last time I was there, however, I had one of the most ridiculous waitress experiences. I had ordered a roast chicken salad and after about 10 minutes the waitress comes to check on us. She asked how everything was, and I had to tell her that my chicken was quite cold. She informed me that it was "supposed to be". I figured she knew the dishes better than I did, so I just smiled. Within a minute she returned with a menu and read the description of the salad to me, "Warm chicken salad.... You see, it's not going to be hot-hot." I was blown away and informed her that there was a grave difference between chilled--warm--and "hot-hot". She gave up and asked if I wanted another salad. I passed on the offer and will never return!

    1. z
      ziggylu Apr 9, 2008 02:45 PM

      I was hesitatant to start this post as I really wasn't sure if we just hit a once-off type thing. After reading through everyone's comments I'm thinking maybe not. I'm particularly surprised on other comments regarding the trend in lesser quality with the food. It saddens me to think that the quality of the food has always in fact declined since they always did a good job with what they were trying to present: basic French bistro/brasserie food.

      The salad I was presented with was the antithesis of everything I'd ever been presented with previously at Zinc bistro. The portion of iceberg lettuce was tremendous - the plate looked like the type of salad you'd anticipate being presented with by the likes of the Cheesecake Factory. So soggy with dressing it was pooling all over the plate. There were tomatoes that were sliced razon thin and then cut in half, it looked silly and cheap. And it was just bland as could be.

      Given all the other comments here about service and attitude I'm now sure we'll pass again. Maybe if reports surface that service has improved we'll reconsider but for now this pretty much cements that it's not worth a future visit. Before posting the longer comments about our meal I did look for an email as well to send a note to the restaurant as I did feel if I were going to be so negative publicly it only fair to also directly address the issues with them. Like hzp I found no contact info on the site and much like we figured it wasn't worth it to talk to the MOD decided a telephone call would bring only further frustration as well.

      It's the end of tourist season. Maybe the servers and kitchen are burnt out from tourists who flock to the Kierland area. personally i don't buy that as an excuse though(I've spent 20+ years in various aspects of the service industry and I don't care how burnt out you are...if you're in front of hte customer treat them respect and if you can't, take a day off and get some R&R). The long hot summer will be here soon and many of the tourists gone. Economic times are getting tougher by the day. I hope Zinc's overall business is strong enough as it seems they are alienating a good portion of the local regular business.

      We love bistro food....recommendations on other places that do it well locally?

      1. Seth Chadwick Apr 8, 2008 04:17 PM

        I love the food at Zinc, although I will admit that I haven't been in at least six month.

        Unfortunately, it will probably be many more month before I return after the absolutely atrocious customer service I received from the clueless, nasty hostess who clearly was bothered I called and asked about a reservation. After being scolded about not taking a reservation for two, I asked what the wait would be like on a Saturday night around 8 PM and was greeted with a "How would I know?" followed by her hanging up on me.

        Maybe she was having a bad day? Too bad. If the front line personnel are this nasty, I can only imagine what the owner is willing to tolerate once you get past the host station.

        2 Replies
        1. re: Seth Chadwick
          m
          mkiss Apr 9, 2008 12:15 AM

          over the last 6 months the food has really taken a nose dive, the kitchen is not what it used to be

          1. re: Seth Chadwick
            winedubar Apr 9, 2008 12:50 PM

            omg seth thats terrible!!!!! i hope someone from zinc is reading this!!!

          2. ccl1111 Apr 8, 2008 01:37 PM

            Had differing experiences there. Do remember one that left a sour taste. We were with extended family (6 adults & 3 small kids). The server assigned to our station, very publicly threw a tantrum when she saw the kids & refused to take our table. Another server did and was great. Of course the kids eat like adults and my niece was stealing oysters though she had her own order of moules & frites. My daughter had the flat iron steak. Went out of our way to overtip, thank our server and pointed out the behavior of the two to the manager. There is definitely some attitude there.

            1. h
              hzp Apr 8, 2008 09:50 AM

              I actually really like the food at Zinc usually, and myself, haven't had any service issues, excepting when i tried to book a private party there a year or two ago. I hit there about once a month, particularly with clients.

              that said, reading these experiences, its enough to make me not go back until I hear service has improved. too big a risk, particularly for their $$ range.

              as it happens, i had wanted to email the restaurant to let them know exactly that,(because I think its fair to do so and thus, let them know there are things to improve) and their website does not offer an email address, and a call to their restaurant resulted in being told "we're not allowed to give out the managers email address" and when i asked for the address, she didn't know it, or the managers name, except for "Terry".

              1 Reply
              1. re: hzp
                a
                AzDumpling Apr 8, 2008 09:56 AM

                That speaks volumes.

              2. s
                Sherri Apr 8, 2008 09:22 AM

                Ziggylu, re-read the post from "Deenso" in a Nov 13, 2007 thread titled "can zinc do any wrong?". There seems to be a constant thread of waitstaff/MOD arrogance that has now spilled over into the kitchen. Chef Matt Carter knows better; maybe he's absent or asleep at the wheel.

                I know I won't be back any time soon. My bad experience wasn't as dramatic as yours but it was enough to put me off the place until I hear of a very dramatic turnaround. Having lived in Paris, I too know that this kind of service has nothing to do with "French". Maybe a little too much success has gone to their heads and that would be a shame.

                3 Replies
                1. re: Sherri
                  hohokam Apr 8, 2008 09:29 AM

                  linky link:

                  http://www.chowhound.com/topics/46001...

                  1. re: hohokam
                    s
                    Sherri Apr 8, 2008 09:37 AM

                    ...... sigh, I don't know how to link a previous post, but would if I did. Thanks for the help. You made this a snap to find.

                    1. re: Sherri
                      hohokam Apr 8, 2008 09:49 AM

                      No problem :-)

                      Two ways to get a link to a specific post:

                      1) If you're on a PC (not a Mac), right-click on the "Permalink" link at the bottom of the post and choose "Copy link location". Then you can paste the link into your post.

                      2) Left-click on the Permalink link then copy the URL (link address) from the address field at the top of your browser window.

                2. b
                  Bazel Apr 8, 2008 08:52 AM

                  So one can only hope Chef Carter scans this board every once in a while and will take these comments to heart. Having dined in more than a few real French Bistros, snotty service with attitude is not the norm. Professional service, good (to great) food is.

                  Bz

                  1. c
                    crsin Apr 7, 2008 11:01 PM

                    That's really a shame that things did not go too well, as I love Zinc. In my visits there, the service has ALWAYS been truly exceptional, with congenial, unobtrusive, yet informative and highly attentive servers. I can see how someone may not like a dish that they ordered simply becuase it was not their taste, but every item I've ever had there has been absolutely stellar.

                    I would definitely chalk your visit up to a bad day.

                    2 Replies
                    1. re: crsin
                      z
                      ziggylu Apr 8, 2008 07:30 AM

                      This wasn't things not going well, it really was a disaster.

                      As I mentioned the food itself was an issue. Not from a "I just didnt' care for it" point of view. This time from a prepartion point of view My husband had the duck confit sandwich...the duck was dried out. The real offender was my crab salad which was overly dressed and soggy soggy soggy. An enormous mound of soggy iceberg topped with very little crab. the dressing while present in copious amounts was flavorless. I ate two bites and quit. No way was this worth the tremendous amount of calories that had to be in all that dressing. Not stellar in anyway, and not just because it wasn't my taste this time.

                      The service was truly horrible. We sat and the server approached. No smile, no hello, no welcome. Long brown hair halfway down her back that she apparently couldn't have been bothered to pull back before service(sorry a turn off to me...I have long hair as well and know how much I lose throughout the day. Even in my own kitchen I always pull it back for this reason). "the special today is jidori chicken" I asked what type of preparation "jidori" was as I was unfamiliar with it, she sneered that it was "free range...you know never in a cage" OK..thanks I wonder if they braise them on the range or roast them. Let's just skip that whole special thing anyhow.

                      We ordered an iced tea and a small carafe(a glass essentially) of the white burgundy. We also went ahead and placed our lunch order at this time as we were ready. She brought the tea and sneered at my husband while pointing at the salt cellar "that's salt? Don't use it in your tea. If you want sweetener i have to bring it to you?" He doesn't use sweetener anyhow by really why not just bring it with the tea and save a trip? And I realize they probably get folks that don't realize what a salt cellar is(even if sitting next to the pepper mill) but surely the issue can be addressed politely and without yet another sneer.

                      A runner dropped the food. Before we could taste it, she flew by..."everythings' fine? good" and kept on going not to be seen again until the check drop.

                      My salad sat after the first two bites. . My husband wanted me to send it back..my general experience sending is sending things back usually isn't worth it. The only time I'll send something back is meat or fish not prepared to correct temperature and fortunately I've rarely had to do this. I just figured I'd write it off as a loss and just share his fries which were good and for lunch made me happy(hey a nice sunny day with a glass of wine and good frites...ok by me for lunch really). When they noticed I'd left the salad 98% uneaten, I'd explain I didn't care for it. Maybe they'd take it off the bill, maybe not...if not, not the end of the world as I didn't really do anything from my end to correct the issue other than not eat it. See, I'm really not a demanding or difficult customer for the most part. Kitchens have bad days, and customers make bad choices. I get that. In this case I think it was more the kitchen but for $16 it wasn't worth making a big deal about...write off as an experience and note to self to stick only with the frisee if ordering salad here.

                      We didn't see the server again...or anyone else. Our water glasses were empty from before the food arrived as was the iced tea glass. i was never offered another glass of wine(yes I would like one thank you very much for asking).

                      The busser approached to clear. He asked me if I wanted a box for my salad. "Um, no thank you. It wasn't good and I didn't care for it at all" A few moments later he arrived bringing me...A BAG WITH MY UNEATEN SOGGY SALAD! I was a bit flabbergasted. I refused it, and again pointed out "No, really that was a terrible salad which is why I didn't eat it" He disappeared with the salad.

                      Seconds later the server finally arrived again...and dropped the check "here you go" sliding it across the table towards my husband as she again flew by without actually stopping. He caught it at the edge before it slid off the table and into his lap. (By now, I'm wondering if she was supposed to show up at Ed Debovich's this morning and got lost on the way perhaps) Gosh, no we didn't want any dessert. No thanks I'd not like a coffee. Oh, and yes as the busser apparently didn't mention I didn't care for my salad(which you might have known if we'd seen you at some point after we'd actually tasted the food) but that's OK I'd not like to order anything else today instead. And no we're not thirsty from looking at these empty glasses for the past half hour on this warm Arizona afternoon.

                      We paid and left. I honestly can't tell you the last time we came close to stiffing service...we tipped $5 on a $43 bill and it was probably too much. this was when we contemplated talking to the manager, to let him know why the tip was low...but decided there was an atmosphere/attitude to the place that seemed no one cared. Even the hostess couldn't be bothered to smile and welcome us. that didnt' phase me at first as I in my mind stereotyped it as typical for hip Scottsdale hostesses...but as a part of the whole it was part of an overall bad experience.

                      Despite many good experiences here, this was such a bad one I really don't know that we'll go back on our own again. We don't get to this end of the world too often and tehre's other good choices(we were kicking ourselves for not heading the other way from the car dealer to Andreoli instead for instance).

                      Business was good yesterday, they won't miss us.

                      1. re: ziggylu
                        a
                        AzDumpling Apr 8, 2008 09:03 AM

                        All I can say is that the five dollars that left your wallet would not have left mine. Your reluctance to speak with the manager was probably well founded as this many lapses in service would have been impossible had the MOD had any interest whatsoever in seeing to it that his/her guests were well cared for. I expect that the ensuing interaction, if you had taken it, would have simply added to your level of frustration.

                    2. d
                      duck833 Apr 7, 2008 08:55 PM

                      We have had excellent experiences at Zinc over many years. Have had wonderful lunches outside, good service, great times. Other times it is not so good. Last time we were there the server for our area just flat ignored us. I was getting pissed and we were seconds from walking when another server took pity on us and took over. After two wonderful Steak Frites and a bottle of nice wine things were fixed. We tipped the server 25% and went on our way.

                      Had some friends that went there for a nice dinner, two couples. They ordered a bottle of French wine. The server brought out four of the smaller red wine glasses. They then asked for the larger nicer glasses, the server told them he could not do that, they were only for their most expensive wines. They asked for the manager and he also told them no. They have not been back.

                      I think the management has some attitude problems, maybe they are French?

                      17 Replies
                      1. re: duck833
                        z
                        ziggylu Apr 7, 2008 09:26 PM

                        I lived in France for two years and never had the kind of service we experienced today.

                        We contemplated talking to the manager but decided not to bother...my husband made the comment "don't you get the impression they just don't really care today?" And in fact that was how it felt, from teh hostess to the bussers and everyone in between.

                        We've always liked the place but really they aren't goign to miss our 4-5x a year business so why bother.

                        We've been eating out a lot less than we used to...not necessarily a reflection of economic times....more and more we're finding that in the mid-range (the $50-$100 range) it's just not worth it anymore. Maybe we have bad luck. We're not overly demanding customers- simple requests really: well prepared food, polite service, and please do not rush me through my meal. Today was the epitome of every reason we've cut back on dining out other than inexpensive ethnic options or the special occasion high end splurge.

                        1. re: duck833
                          invinotheresverde Apr 8, 2008 10:12 AM

                          Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why guests ordering cheaper wine would decide they had a right to the glasses used for the expensive wine? There are probably a limited amount of said glasses, and they need to be available if someone orders the better wine. Seems like common sense to me.

                          1. re: invinotheresverde
                            hohokam Apr 8, 2008 10:16 AM

                            I'm no wine expert, but generally I expect a restaurant that cares about wine to match the glassware to the what's in the bottle, not to the price tag on the outside of it.

                            1. re: hohokam
                              invinotheresverde Apr 8, 2008 12:08 PM

                              Agreed, but as long as the regular glasses were adequate, why the fuss? If the restaurant's policy is the nicer stemware is only for $100 bottles and over (for example), and the guests didn't order a bottle that cost over $100, why should they get the glasses? Sounds like a bit of self-entitlement to me.

                              1. re: invinotheresverde
                                a
                                AzDumpling Apr 8, 2008 12:21 PM

                                Seems incredibly petty to me on the part of the restaurant not to grant a simple request like that. After all, how many times would they get asked this favor and how hard would it have been to grant it? If it concerned the people enough to ask further clarification by the manager it obviously was something that they felt would have improved their experience at the restaurant and that should have been the manager’s desire as well.

                                1. re: AzDumpling
                                  f
                                  foofood Apr 9, 2008 01:00 PM

                                  In their defense, some bottles at Zinc Bistro are *very* expensive and do demand elite glassware. As a customer, if I'm paying $300 (it goes up from there, believe me) for a superior bottle of Bordeaux, it would be unacceptable for Zinc to serve my wine in the same glassware as a $20 Merlot. If I'm paying $25 for a bottle of Merlot, I'd *prefer* elite glassware but I can appreciate why it isn't provided. Expensive glassware is just much harder to maintain than cheap glassware; drying it takes much longer (gotta get out all the smudges) and because it's delicate it chips and breaks easily. If you deliver my $25 bottle of Merlot in elite glassware and then the table next to us orders the same bottle of Merlot and gets *standard* glassware, the manager has a real problem. I suppose Zinc Bistro could charge a premium for the nicer glassware but then *that* would inspire resentment among some customers ("What a cheap restaurant. I have to pay *extra* to enjoy my wine in a proper glass? This is so not the parisian way.") The other alternative is to throw away the cheap glassware and replace it all with elite glassware (but do you, as a customer, want higher prices to pay for that decision?). Or Zinc could drop the premium wines *and* the premium glassware--that would be fine by me. Ah, jealousy among the rich; isn't it ugly?

                                  1. re: foofood
                                    winedubar Apr 9, 2008 01:08 PM

                                    thats ridiculous.

                                    so if i merely order the salad i should get the cheap silverware and cheap plates? only those who order foie dare get the good plates, evidently. cheap paper napkins for the folks who don't order appetizers with their entrees?

                                    dumb policy. end of story.

                                    1. re: winedubar
                                      invinotheresverde Apr 10, 2008 07:53 AM

                                      YOU may find it to be a dumb policy, but every restaurant I've worked at in the last 15 years has had "normal" glassware and "high end" glassware.

                                      1. re: invinotheresverde
                                        winedubar Apr 10, 2008 09:43 AM

                                        its a stupid policy. i don't remember a separate set of glasses at either rancho pinot, mary elaine's, kai, durants, binkleys. or even french laundry, or chez panisse, zuni cafe or any number of the fantastic places we've eaten over the years.

                                        does it exist? sheesh, nothing would suprise me

                                        does it make sense? hell no!!

                                        if one kind of stemware is good enough for thomas keller its good enough for me

                                        1. re: winedubar
                                          azhotdish Apr 10, 2008 10:01 AM

                                          can you remember a place in paris where you've seen different levels of glassware used depending on the wine you ordered? i sure didn't see it happen...

                                          1. re: azhotdish
                                            winedubar Apr 10, 2008 10:11 AM

                                            i've never seen it happen. especially at a place with 'bistro' in its title.

                                            1. re: winedubar
                                              a
                                              AzDumpling Apr 10, 2008 10:27 AM

                                              Regardless of whether the establishment does or does not have more than one level of stemware the question really is one of customer satisfaction. If a customer feels that their experience would be heightened by the use of a better quality of glass then why not try to make them happy if indeed such stemware is available. It is a very easy thing to do and I cannot believe many people would ask for a stemware upgrade as they would simply drink their wine from the glass provided. The aforementioned group’s second request to the manager, after asking their server, should have been politely accommodated as it would seem that the manager would have sensed the possibility of cultivating a good return customer. Perhaps, as said, the customer is NOT always right but reasonable requests with regard to menu preparation, stemware selections and such are part of why the industry is called the hospitality industry I believe.

                                              Of course perhaps the management felt that the foursome were Greeks and they feared the worst for their expensive stemware.

                                              1. re: AzDumpling
                                                winedubar Apr 10, 2008 10:35 AM

                                                all quibbling about the specifics of various stemware aside, i do agree with your assessment of customer service here, azdumpling. cheers to that.

                                                1. re: winedubar
                                                  The Chowhound Team Apr 10, 2008 10:36 AM

                                                  Sorry to interrupt, but if any posters want to discuss wine glass issues further, please start a thread on the General Topics board, so that we can keep the focus here on local chow.

                                                  Thank you!

                                2. re: invinotheresverde
                                  h
                                  hzp Apr 8, 2008 03:34 PM

                                  honestly, i am having a very hard figuring out WHY there are different glasses except to cause strife and class divide :) moreover, what seems lost here is: the customer is always right. seriously. the place is empty, give them the damned glasses.

                                  1. re: hzp
                                    invinotheresverde Apr 8, 2008 04:13 PM

                                    Here's where we have our fundamental difference: I definitely don't believe the customer is always right.

                                    1. re: invinotheresverde
                                      h
                                      hzp Apr 8, 2008 04:18 PM

                                      actually, you're right, and I'm wrong on this one. people have become unreasonable in the last 10 years, and they do make demands that are not always possible to accommodate, and in some cases, shouldn't be even if they CAN be.

                                      but i don't think this is one of those cases. and... i suppose if this were a limited instance, i could say, "there was something going on behind the scenes we/the customer don't know about".

                                      but it doesn't appear such is the case from all reports.

                                      that said... when i last worked in a restaurant, as it happens, a french bistro in another town far away.... we were told everyday that it was our job to accomodate customers... in the great tradition of nordstroms (who also don't do a great job at this anymore). Make them happy. As a waitress, few people were hard to make happy, and most of the time, i found it harder to make people unhappy. takes effort to give less than standard service, IMO.

                          2. a
                            au lait Apr 7, 2008 07:56 PM

                            ziggylu

                            My last visit, and I mean my last, was over one year ago.

                            Sunday afternoon, midday, the place was empty and with Sunday newspaper under my arm.

                            I asked for a cafe au lait. The hostess replied no the restaurant did not make whatever that is. (This is a French Brasserie? Right?)

                            I asked, cappuccino? She yes we do make those.

                            I said that will do and asked for table in the empty bar area. The hostess said tables in the bar are reserved for food customers, only but I was welcomed to sit at the bar.

                            I asked for the manager. He echoed the words of the hostess.

                            I said thank you and goodbye.

                            Frankly, with so many restaurants why support one with either bad food or bad customer service. And by “bad” customer service I mean not only rude or incompetent but as is most often the case unreasonable and simply dumb behavior.

                            When faced with bad food or dumb behavior don’t you to be dumb by staying or returning.

                            Excuse the rant but there it is.

                            1 Reply
                            1. re: au lait
                              c
                              climberdoc Apr 7, 2008 08:44 PM

                              I've been there around 10 times. Zinc has never been a 5-star experience. Heck, the prices reflect that. In my experience, it's always been no less than good food with no less than good service. Au lait's experience is shocking based on my experiences there.

                            2. c
                              climberdoc Apr 7, 2008 07:33 PM

                              I've always had very good but not life-changing experiences at Zinc Bistro. Their cheese plate is one of the very best. They used to have a flatiron steak with a bone marrow sauce and unbelievable truffled mashed potatoes. The dish they replaced it with did not hold a candle to the first. Bummer!

                              They probably just had an off day. I wouldn't give up on it based on one bad experience especially when you have had so many previous positive experiences there.

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