505569 Thu Apr 03 00:48:44 -0700 2008 141 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 3335920 This is a bit of a thread jack, but what is the difference between Tex-Mex and California Mexican food? I have got into several arguments with people over the years trying to say that I thought California was the better of the two but I have a hard time defining it. To me California Mexican tends to be a little healthier, with an emphasis on fish, avocados and generally with more vegetables. Beans are sometimes whole and not refried. Tacos tend to be crispy. Garlic is use more liberally than in Tex-Mex. The cheese enchilada with a meat sauce seems to be the quintessential Tex-Mex dish. Tex-Mex in general has an emphasis on cheese and beef in all their forms. Tex-Mex rellenos use Hatch peppers while California uses Anaheim. California chips are usually not thin while Tex-Mex often are. Which of these points am I wrong about and what am I missing? Sat Jan 26 14:38:22 -0800 2008 160839 franknbeans 1 3336424 I'm under the impression that California Mexican food has a lot more fresh herbs and cheeses, as well as lean steak and chicken. Tex-Mex is more about the processed glop. Sat Jan 26 18:18:21 -0800 2008 3335920 94203 brattpowered 2 3572427 I'll beg to differ on the "processed glop" comment -- but Tex-Mex is heavier on the cheese and beef side of things and heavier in general. When I first moved to San Antonio many, many years ago, the food was better (when you sat down you'd get a bowl of hot, greasy chips and some butter to smear on 'em), lots of green sauce, everything was made with lard . . .there was no cilantro to be found. In college at UT, we'd go into East Austin (when NO one would venture to that side of 35) and get a hefty bag full of chips just fresh out of the grease for $4. But damn, that was good eating. Now, with more people moving into the state from elsewhere, the Mexican food seems to be moving more toward the Cal-mex side of things to accommodate those tastes (and later-day health concerns): black beans, more cilantro, fish tacos, more vegetables. Tue Apr 08 04:11:07 -0700 2008 3336424 73451 bebevonbernstein 1 3572643 As a native California who grew up on CalMex, and now a long time resident of Texas, where (surprisingly?) TexMex originated, to me, the differences are these: First off, when you move from one area to another, you'll find name changes. What I grew up calling a tostado in California, changed from being a whole flat crispy tortilla topped with a layer of beans, maybe some kind of meat, shredded lettuce, diced tomatoes, cheese, maybe sliced jalapenos, and topped with a dollop of sour cream turned out to be a... tortilla chip in texas! Blew my mind. Lots of name differences, but with the passing of time and population mobility, I think a little progress has been made toward consistency. Things I was used to and took for granted in California, were black olives (NEVER in Tex Mex!), avocado and guacamole in California, are now far more common in Texas than they were 25 years ago (apparently thanks to Taco Bell!), sea food in California (one of my faves was crab enchiladas at Su Casa, in La Jolla) but fish tacos, for example, are only recently reaching Texas. Shredded beef is more common in CaMx than in TxMx. And I found a greater variety of cheeses, especially Mexican (type) cheeses, used in California, whereas my experience is that generally in Texas you'll find a lot more cheddar. When I first moved to Texas, the tamales made me cry. Sooooooo stingy with the filling (like they filled a thin drinking straw with the filling and then injected it into the masa) and a Texas tamale is rarely as large as two fingers in diameter. I've never found bowls of pickled carrots and other veggies served with soft tacos in Texas the way they are in both southern California, and Tijuana, Mexico. TexMex food seems most reflective of west Texas, and the desert, leaving the food sort of barren when compared to California's wide and rich variety of everything. Even when you move into the richer and greener parts of Texas, where cattle ranching is common, agriculture doesn't lean much in the direction of fresh produce. This is all reflected in the food. A short true life story that, for me, reflects the difference between CalMex and TexMex... When we first moved to Texas (El Paso), I was working two jobs. One day I was running late for a meeting across town but was starving! Saw a huge sign that said, "Chico's Tacos." Parked, dashed in, wanted two beef tacos. FOLDED beef tacos! The counter girl looked at me like I was crazy. "We only serve rolled tacos, ma'am." I irritably replied, "No. You don't sell ANY tacos! You sell FLAUTAS!" And I left, still hungry. IMO, Chico's Tacos serves the worst flautas I've ever tasted, but they are HUGELY popular in El Paso. But hey, that's TexMex! Tue Apr 08 06:20:47 -0700 2008 3335920 112096 Caroline1 2 3574097 "What I grew up calling a tostado in California, changed from being a whole flat crispy tortilla topped with a layer of beans, maybe some kind of meat, shredded lettuce, diced tomatoes, cheese, maybe sliced jalapenos, and topped with a dollop of sour cream turned out to be a... tortilla chip in texas! Blew my mind. " Native Texan here, and I have NEVER heard of that item called a "tortilla chip." Those are known as either tostadas or chalupas, which are basically different names for the same thing. Chalupa is more common in the panhandle. Tue Apr 08 12:53:52 -0700 2008 3572643 17548 BarmyFotheringayPhipps 3 3574588 Well, when I moved to El Paso, every time I asked for tostadas (as in two for lunch) I was brought a bowl of tortilla chips. When I asked what was going on, the reply was, "Ooooh... You mean CHALUPAS!" There was a great tortilleria there that also deep fried their tortillas and sold them by the brown paper grocery bag full, and they had them on their menu as "tostadas." Lots of things are regional. I just asked my housekeeper, who is a native of Dallas, and she says that in this area chalupas AND tortilla chips are both called "tostados," just as they are in El Paso. And here (http://mw1.m-w.com/dictionary/tostados) you'll find: tostados One entry found. tostada Main Entry: tos·ta·da Pronunciation: \tō-ˈstä-də\ Variant(s): also tos·ta·do \-(ˌ)dō\ Function: noun Etymology: Mexican Spanish tostada, from Spanish, feminine of tostado, past participle of tostar to toast, roast, from Late Latin tostare — more at toast Date: 1935 : a tortilla fried in deep fat Tue Apr 08 14:50:54 -0700 2008 3574097 112096 Caroline1 4 3574826 Oh, wait. I just COMPLETELY misread what you had originally written. Clearly, I am a moron. Sorry about that. Tue Apr 08 15:59:28 -0700 2008 3574588 17548 BarmyFotheringayPhipps 5 3574893 LOL! Welcome to the human race! Or are you just doing this to make me feel like I'm not the only one? '-) Tue Apr 08 16:15:05 -0700 2008 3574826 112096 Caroline1 4 3575224 well, El Paso is closer to Los Angeles than to East Texas. Coming from Houston, Tex-Mex definitely has more cheese than Cal Mex, and I also think deeper, richer flavors, more chile, more spice, more oomph. Hatch green chiles are a West Texas/Arizona thing, not seen as much in Houston/the Eastern part of the state. There are also planty of barbecue influences. Tue Apr 08 18:00:10 -0700 2008 3574588 86106 cocktailhour 5 3575758 I think people always prefer whatever it is they grow up with, or taste first and like. How picante/spicy/hot things are varies greatly from region to region, and sometimes changes greatly in just a few miles. For example, I would expect Houston's proximity to Louisiana, and the Big Easy, to influence the spiciness of Mexican food in your region. Here in Plano, and the parts of the DFW metroplex I've sampled, things aren't so spicy that I can't eat them. In El Paso, things were about the same as here, but drive thirty miles north to Las Cruces, and the New Mexico penchant for "if it don't cauterize your brain and make your eyeballs fall out on your cheeks, it ain't hot enough" kicks in. Bobby Flay has had a huge impact across the country on how "picante" things are, not only in Southwestern and Mexican style foods, but in everything. Not to mention what he has done for blue corn. In this area where I now live, in my experience with close to twenty Mexican restaurants, the large majority (about 75% of those I've tried) do not char and peel a chile for a chile relleno. The result is a crunchy chile that I've never had anywhere but here. Cheese chile rellenos are also more the exception here than the rule, with things like meat and poultry, sometimes with raisins and spices in the meat/poultry fillings, not typical of the chile rellenos I've experienced in the rest of the country. As for "deeper richer flavor," I think that, like beauty, that's something that is always in the eye -- and tastebuds -- of the beholder. '-) Tue Apr 08 21:26:58 -0700 2008 3575224 112096 Caroline1 6 3581920 "drive thirty miles north to Las Cruces, and the New Mexico penchant for "if it don't cauterize your brain and make your eyeballs fall out on your cheeks, it ain't hot enough" kicks in." Sounds like my kind of place! Any recommendations? Thu Apr 10 13:11:55 -0700 2008 3575758 19148 aynrandgirl 5 3941747 well, just because I have driven from San Antonio to Los Angeles more than once ~~ and always stopped for the night in El Paso, I had to check this on google maps. El Paso to Los Angeles ~~ 802 miles El Paso to Houston ~~ 745 miles thus providing conclusive proof that East Texas is still closer. I hope you can read my tongue in cheek Fri Aug 08 13:59:04 -0700 2008 3575224 109905 laliz 3 3579966 I grew up in Dallas from 50's on. I've been reading a doctorate dissertation in the UT archives where Vanessa Fonseca says that chips and salsa is a Texas invention. As early as 1918 the Dallas-based El Fenix, served whole fried tortillas with salsa. Around 1940 they started cutting them into wedges. She states that “tostadas” were commercialized around 1912 by B. Martinez Sons Co. (founders of El Fenix) and "tostados" is the word used by non-Hispanics for fried tortillas. These were fried but not called "Fritos" but "tostadas" because they thought it would have a less negative connotation in Spanish. I don't know if this explains anything or not but I have always known a chalupa as a bean, lettuce, tomato and cheese topped, whole, fried tostada. Thu Apr 10 04:57:38 -0700 2008 3574097 137946 Scargod 2 3576346 I don't know about West Texas, but here in Houston, Taco Bell had nothing to do with avocados and guacamole being more common now than 25 years ago. And Flautas are rolled and fried tacos type things. Just to have a taco rolled doesn't make it a flauta. Maybe it's an El Paso thing, or maybe it's a California thing. I don't know. Wed Apr 09 06:59:09 -0700 2008 3572643 80937 danhole 3 3576726 Don't know why I seem to be raising so much controversy? A taco USUALLY has some sort of fresh stuff in it, along with the standard fillings of meat, poultry, beans and/or cheese. For example, chiffonade of lettuce, diced tomatoes, chopped onions or scallions, stuff like that in a beef or chicken taco. Fish tacos are usually served with Mexican cole slaw. A flauta, however, is simply a meat or chicken filling rolled inside a corn tortilla, and sometimes secured with a toothpick or other means prior to deep frying. Even when rolled, tacos are rarely, if ever, deep fat fried with all of the fresh goodies inside them, not to mention any cheese or sour cream. It would make a splattering dangerous mess! Apparently I didn't make clear that a place In El Paso (and while they do have multiple locations, I believe they are all within that ciy) called "Chico's Tacos" does not sell tacos at all. None! They sell flautas, and flautas only. Deep fat fried until they are break-your-teeth hard, topped with shredded cheese, then served in a cardboard boat with a cup of chili flavored liquid that looks like red dishwater to pour over them to soften them. I had never heard a flauta called a "taco" until I moved to El Paso, and stopped in Chico's Tacos looking for a real taco. My point is that there ARE regional differences in what things are called. Sorry it's so difficult to follow. And again, Houston may well have been on the avocado band wagon long before many other parts of Texas because of your proximity to Florida. If it's too far to cart the avocados by land, it's a short sail on the gulf. Houston, however, is not like the rest of Texas. And the rest of Texas isn't like the "rest of Texas" either simply because this is such a very very very large state. California, on the other hand, even though it is the third largest state, after Texas ranking second only to Alaska, is far more uniform in its "CalMex" style of food, despite its size. Even prior to California's vast overpopulation, it was like that. Historical factors probably play a role in both states. Wed Apr 09 08:41:35 -0700 2008 3576346 112096 Caroline1 4 3576821 I didn't get the part about the "tacos" being deep fried. Also I think perhaps Houston has more avocado because of Mexico, not Florida. We moved back to Houston in 1970, and I was 13. The only mexican food I was familiar with was out of a frozen dinner, so I was pretty amazed at the Tex Mex. I went with this family, that we knew from living here back in the early 60's, on a trip from Houston and around the state in a clockwise direction. We were in Laredo and stopped at a mexican cafe. The menu was in spanish, so my friends father ordered for me. It was a soft taco with stuff in it like you described, and I liked it. I had never had anything like it before. I asked what kind of meat was it, and he told me it was goat. My eyes bugged out, and he quickly said no, it was pork. He lied, I was pacified and didn't find out for a few years that I was tricked! That trip showed me how diverse this state truly is. From the Forest at Big Bend to the border towns, the desert, and then the rolling plush greenery in the panhandle. First time I had ever had figs off of a tree, in Abilene. Gorged myself until I got sick! Ah, good times! Didn't mean to offend you Caroline. Sorry if I did. Wed Apr 09 09:01:42 -0700 2008 3576726 80937 danhole 5 3577144 So you had the "cabrito surprise" eh? LOVED this story! Wed Apr 09 10:11:02 -0700 2008 3576821 102895 Cheflambo 5 3577700 You certain you live in Texas? The forest at Big Bend? The Chisos Basin is relatively lush, but surrounding it(and contributing much of Big Bend and the neighboring reserve) is the Chihuahuan Desert. The Panhandle is mostly prairie. Maybe you are thinking of verdant Houston and The Piney Woods? To bring it back to Tex-Mex, I disagree with many of Caroline1's apprehensions(I usually do), but here's a specific: I've never had a Tex-Mex chile relleno made with a Hatch chile or an Anaheim. Until you get to far West Texas...Hatch chiles are basically unheard of... when I think chile rellenos, I think stuffed poblanos. Also, as another poster mentions, proximity to Florida has nothing to do with avocado usage in Tex-Mex...that's a definite Mexican influence. Wed Apr 09 12:11:40 -0700 2008 3576821 14985 aelph 6 3577812 It was a LONG time ago, and I was new to the state, but I know we camped out in a forest with lots of trees southwest of Houston, and darn you are right about the panhandle. I got Amarillo confused with Abilene. Abilene was the plush greenery! Oops! And we didn't get to the Piney Woods that trip, but I went to college in East Texas. Yes, I learned what cabrito was, in a very roundabout way! LOL! Cabrito is very popular around here and is served at a lot of places. Wed Apr 09 12:37:35 -0700 2008 3577700 80937 danhole 6 4516617 aelph, I need to come to the defense of my buddy Dani. In the mountains, that reach over 7800 feet, not the basin, there a is remnant forest of ponderosa pine that go back to the late pleistocene era, along with douglas fir and other trees found in cooler climates. This is part of the beauty of Big Bend, you go through several climate zones, from desert floor to pine forests in the mountains. Wed Mar 18 10:50:23 -0700 2009 3577700 198541 James Cristinian 7 4516705 Thanks James. I could have sworn there was a forest. Wed Mar 18 11:20:46 -0700 2009 4516617 80937 danhole 6 4517241 Since I am a Texan and was a Dallasite for 50 years, and a avid connoisseur of everything Tex-Mex and Mexican, I can think of numerous instances where I have had the long green one... While you are mostly correct, that mainstream, "popular with Gringos" Tex-Mex joints typically use poblanos, I have had Hatch or Hatch-like chiles in those places and at hole-in-the-walls (that were more Mex than Tex), many times. I remember because I thought Whaaaat (?), till I got used to it being as good or better than the poblano. See, Big C, I'm watchin your backside". Wed Mar 18 13:36:08 -0700 2009 3577700 137946 Scargod 7 4542915 The first time I had a poblan, I thougt I was getting rooked. In New Mex, the big green rellano. Fri Mar 27 02:56:49 -0700 2009 4517241 93538 Passadumkeg 5 3577756 I wasn't offended. But you were the second one who seemed to miss what I was trying to say, so I was becoming frustrated with my own writing skills! And I'm a writer...!!! Scary. You're right about avocados from Mexico being quicker and easier to reach Houstan than from Florida. Love your story about the cabrito taco. Depends entirely on what part of Texas you're in for availability. My experience is the closer to the border, the easier to find. But they are spreading! Try a cabrito burrito some time. Or if you can't find them, it's at least fun saying it! '-) Wed Apr 09 12:25:38 -0700 2008 3576821 112096 Caroline1 2 4525781 I have found the pickled carrots and other veggies served with soft tacos right here in the Dallas area. I have also found black olives. There are great tamales and terrible ones, just like you might find anywhere else. There is also a ton of pico de gallo and avocado on most platters in Texas. Nope, I don't agree 100%. I am originally an East Coaster who has spent a lot of time in California, so it is not "Texas Pride" that you are seeing in my answer. It is just a fact. There are good places to eat and bad places to eat in both regions. Over time, most restaurants of all kinds have begun shifting to more fresh veggies in all dishes. It is a fact that this area is dominated by carnivores, as evidenced by the relative scarcity of great seafood restaurants versus, say, steak houses. It is likely just a general reflection of the tastes of the the people who live here. 300 miles from the ocean seems to be enough to make fish less popular, but not impossible to find. And, oh yes, many restos offer borracho beans or black beans as an alternative to refried, so I can't say that is entirely true. I think if you are thinking about the typical fast food place, Taco Bell, Taco Bueno or Taco Cabana, yes, everything you are saying is true. But not in the higher quality places. Sat Mar 21 15:04:19 -0700 2009 3572643 87837 RGC1982 3 4525975 Right on the pickled carrots, onions and jalapenos, but not that common. And you can find all kinds of beans, a lot depending on the class of restaurant. I remember several (and not necessarily dives), where they would give you the complimentary small bowl of simple pintos, which bordered on being borrachos, as an appetizer. As you say, it depends on the place. There should be more fish in Dallas than there is. Sat Mar 21 16:10:34 -0700 2009 4525781 137946 Scargod 4 4728714 It's been my experience that every single Mexican restaurant in Texas has them. At least every one I've been to, and that's quite a few. But if you have a white face, you have to ask for them. They don't arrive automatically. Ask for pickled jalapenos - or escabeche. Sat May 30 17:50:11 -0700 2009 4525975 259172 Jaymes 3 4731457 Though not a native of the area, when we lived in New Orleans, a small chain from either Dallas, or Fort Worth (yes, I know, they are NOT the same), named El Chico did it this way and that was my first introduction. When I married in '71, we spent a month driving throughout the country of Mexico, sampling the fare of many states. Once back in the US, we began to travel along the US (Texas)/Mexico border and got to experience many treatments on what we had encountered on our honeymoon. While I love most of the "border fare," and have traveled most of its length, the Tex-Mex, and several Mexican states' versions are my favorites. The farther west that one goes, the more it changes. Now, living in AZ, I am a bit less a fan of what we often have here, though there are some Jaliscan-centric restaurants that I do favor. Many differences, just like the Southern food differs from North Carolina to Mississippi. All good, just different. Hunt Sun May 31 21:21:35 -0700 2009 4525781 11329 Bill Hunt 1 3577043 Have I been wrong for a generation? Aren't the chiles grown in Hatch, NM the Anaheim variety? We just used to call 'em green chiles. Wed Apr 09 09:48:28 -0700 2008 3335920 93538 Passadumkeg 2 3577796 Anaheim, Ortega, and Hatch chiles -- at least SOME Hatch chiles -- are the same thing. A guy whose last name was Ortega took seeds from New Mexico to Ventura, California, where he successfully grew them and became famous. That was ... early 1900s, if my memory hasn't died? Then a decade or so later, someone took the Ortega/Anaheim chile seeds back to New Mexico, and they caught on. New Mexico State University, in Las Cruces, has an extremely loooong history of developing chiles, and was at least a background to the New Mexico, California, New Mexico chile migration. In their original state, they were very susceptible to disease, not very reliable on heat levels, and wild critters loved to eat 'em all up before they could be harvested, so whatever NMSU was called way back then jumped in and saved the day. They still do a lot of hybridization with all sorts of chiles, but the Anaheim/Ortga/Hatch chile is the primary chile crop of New Mexico, and the driving force of the Hatch/Las Cruces agricultural economy. They've developed both a mild jalapeno and even a mild habanero! I forget his name, but one of the guys in the agriculture/chile extension took some of the mild habaneros to a chile eating contest and walked around munching on them like they were apples. No one knew they pretty much were! I think he did it to demoralize the competition. I don't remember all of the details, but I think he was a contestant in the chile eating contest too. Famous around the Las Cruces/El Paso area. Trying to develop a chile that everyone will uniformaly find hot or mild is a real challenge. When we lived in El Paso, and the kids were still in school, we would go out for Mexican food regularly. It didn't take long to realize that when the standard bowls of tortilla chips and salsa were brought to the table, if my daughter and husband said the salsa was mild, it would burn my son's and my mouth out! And the converse was true too. If it was mild for me and John, then my husband and daughter couldn't eat it. It happens that way with some friends too, so I have to assume there is a fairly wide variance in people's taste buds. In California, New Mexico, and west Texas, the Anaheim (Ortega, Hatch) chile is standard for rellenos. In the Dallas area, Poblanos seem to be the standard, and as I said in a previous post, unroasted and unpeeled so they are crunchy. And HOT! As in not deveined and no seeds removed. Not for gringas! At least not this gringa! Wed Apr 09 12:34:26 -0700 2008 3577043 112096 Caroline1 3 3577975 I must be getting senile. I thought (and remember from eating in Dallas and Ft. Worth) that ALL peppers for chile rellenos had the skin removed. The seeds seemed to be another matter; mostly with seeds removed. I thought it was incorrect to leave the seeds in or the skin on. I thought the crunchiness came from doing the proper batter and frying it perfectly. I can remember some rellenos made with long, skinny peppers but most with dark green squatty ones. Does anyone remember eating at Pancho's Buffet? Really gruesome stuff. The chile rellenos were like a cross between a snowball cupcake and a rubber ball. Thick, spongy, synthetic rubber-like coating. Wed Apr 09 13:06:32 -0700 2008 3577796 137946 Scargod 4 3578007 We went to Pancho's excactly once My husband is from TX and while we were living in IL he told me about the flags on the table. I was intrigued. Even my toddler spit out the food. Why oh why does this place exist when there is so much GOOD Mexican/Tex Mex in Texas??? Wed Apr 09 13:13:44 -0700 2008 3577975 97258 pickychicky1979 5 3578679 I used to go to a Don Panchos in Albuquerque while I was getting my masters at UNM. Ninety-nine cents for all you could eat! The rellanos weren't too bad and I cleaned them out of guacamole. Wed Apr 09 15:58:30 -0700 2008 3578007 93538 Passadumkeg 4 3578598 Exactly my point! I've always had them with the skin removed and the batter a bit crunchy, not the peppers! But I suspect the thing all of us may be overlooking is that food is ALWAYS regional. Sometimes from block to block! Watch Mario Batalli preach about if you're making a Tuscan dish, use Tuscan olive oil and Tuscan wine and Tuscan cheese or it won't be authentic. It seems TexMex is like that. Food also changes quickly in some areas. I moved to the DFW metroplex 2 1/2 years ago. After about 4 months, I developed a desperate longing for a cheese chile relleno like I've "always" had before. I don't know if it's just a streak of absolutely abominable luck (wouldn't be the first time) or if it's the way things have always been in these parts, but it took a whooooole lot of hunting and asking to finally track down places that serve chiles relleno with the pepper roasted and peeled prior to cooking. It would be natural for me to assume that's "standard" DFW fare, but that could well be a wrong assumption and just a streak of stepping in doggie doo too many times in a row! As for Pancho's Buffet, it too is regional! They're state wide. There were three in El Paso, and one in Las Cruces. Some were better than others, but none as bad as here. The one in Las Cruces (30 miles north) was my favorite because it served tacos al carbon at their buffet. Made it worth the 30 mile drive. So I was excited when I found a Pancho's here in Plano. How many ways can I spell "yuck!"? No chilles relleno, the tacos were terrible, and they made the enchiladas with flour tortillas. Same thing with Taco Cabana. In El Paso, all of the Taco Cabanas have cheese chiles relleno on the menu, but they only have tortilla soup in the wintertime. Who needs soup when it's 105F, right? Again I was thrilled to find a Taco Cabana in Plano. Again, how many ways to spell... Well, you know. NO chiles relleno on the menu at all. And for tortilla soup they gave me a cup of chicken soup and some warm flour tortillas to dunk in it! And THEY made my enchiladas with flour tortillas too! What is it with that? Who needs enchilada dumplings? Not me! Everything is regional. Maybe all I need to do is drive to Fort Worth? <sigh> Wed Apr 09 15:35:44 -0700 2008 3577975 112096 Caroline1 4 3581903 long, skinny = Anaheim green, squatty = Poblano Thu Apr 10 13:08:47 -0700 2008 3577975 19148 aynrandgirl 5 3582275 Ya I know, after years in New Mexico, I never ate or saw either a poblano or a black bean. Out of necessity, I started I started eating them here in Maine. What a funny world it is. Thu Apr 10 14:42:32 -0700 2008 3581903 93538 Passadumkeg 3 3578663 And damn, they send all the mild jalapenos (jala- peeenos) up to Maine, I eat them like celery and the locals think I nuts. Wed Apr 09 15:53:55 -0700 2008 3577796 93538 Passadumkeg 3 5146586 " In California, New Mexico, and west Texas, the Anaheim (Ortega, Hatch) chile is standard for rellenos." Happy to report that in most reputable Mexican restaurants in Califonia, not only are fresh poblanos or anchos being used for rellenos, they are first charred and peeled and cooked with the stem on so you know they are fresh not canned. The flavor difference over canned Anaheims is a world. Many such places also use cotija to stuff, not Jack. Sun Nov 01 07:31:51 -0800 2009 3577796 11234 toodie jane 4 5146669 Then this is a change over the last decade or so. Or do you live in northern California? Cotija seems a curious cheese for rellenos since true cotija is a hard cheese similar to Parmesan, commonly used for grating. Queso de Chihuahua, as fas as I know, is the traditional cheese for chile rellenos. Since Monterey jack is similar, it was adapted in places where Chihuahua cheese was difficult to come by. Charring and peeling any chile before stuffing is standard. Well, except in some strange places here in the DFW metroplex. Sun Nov 01 08:13:42 -0800 2009 5146586 112096 Caroline1 1 3577580 Growing up in Dallas in the 60's, there was El Fenix. This was very greasy, cheesey food. Comments that Tex-Mex is "richer" means much more lard or cheese content! Cheese sauce on enchiladas, thin, brown, meat sauce on tamales, yellow cheddar cheese in your hard tacos, etc. A chalupa was a hard tortilla with mashed beans, lettuce, tomato on it. We had flautas, which I knew as rolled up corn tortillas with a little meat inside and burnt to a crisp in the deep fat fryer. I never cared for them. The meat was always ruined. Jack-in-the-Box sold a horrible flautas-like taco, often soft from the grease. In the 70's we would go frequently to El Fenix to eat and devour the salsa. This was a cooked varity. When our waiter would return we would jokingly, but sometimes with straight faces, ask for more "Mexican soup". Then we'd see how fast we could polish that bowl off (before they returned) and ask for more. It was not terribly spicey. I didn't know of a "soft taco", menudo or tortas for many years. Today there is a healthier version of Tex-Mex and there is more fish and truer Mexican dishes offerred. It has evolved. I can't compare it to Cal-Mex, only New Mex-Mex, which I love and think of as fresher and lighter. I think that most of the salsa in MN is fresh. Wed Apr 09 11:45:12 -0700 2008 3335920 137946 Scargod 2 3578641 El Fenix is still around... http://www.elfenix.com/ I was afraid to ask the difference between a "meat taco" and a "beef taco." Wed Apr 09 15:48:36 -0700 2008 3577580 112096 Caroline1 3 3578728 That made me smile and perked me up. There's always been a joke (at least in Dallas) about what's in the tacos, tamales, etc. Yes, beef, I think... The Jack in the Box was always suspect because the filling seemed to be half masa (or similar filler grain) and the other half greasy?? Have you tried Zuzu, Mia's or Cantina Laredo in Dallas ? Wed Apr 09 16:09:37 -0700 2008 3578641 137946 Scargod 4 3579524 I think I'm gonna swear off TexMex for a while... In a fit of total self indulgence, I just ordered a full dozen cook books -- primarily Japanese and Chinese -- and a flat bottomed wok and steamer baskets to replace the old much much larger round bottom wok and baskets. It's such a joy to have lots of Asian markets in the area! When I get tired of that, I'll go looking for some Anaheim chiles to make my own REAL chiles relleno! '-) Meanwhile, since you enjoyed the last website, heres a little more nostalgia for you: http://miastexmex.com/EATwithUs.html http://www.cantinalaredo.com/ Wed Apr 09 20:41:44 -0700 2008 3578728 112096 Caroline1 5 3579936 I ate at both last year. My Mom really liked Cantina Laredo which was created as a high-end gourmet El Chico's by the Cuellar family. As kids we would get the "taco kit" from the grocery store (where you get shells, seasonings for the meat and [I think] a tin of salsa). We would make refried pinto beans and rice to go with them. It was an inexpensive and novel and inexpensive way for a widow to feed five kids. I was really enjoying the "afraid to ask the difference" comment. Yes, you are in Asian food heaven, aren't you? Thu Apr 10 04:27:42 -0700 2008 3579524 137946 Scargod 6 3580045 Huh, that's what we do w/ our five kids. Bean tostadas is a family favorite. I buy 40 lb bags of pintos and corn tostados in bulk, cheese yoo. In New Mexico they are tostados, I never heard chlaupas until Texas. Unfortunately chalupa sounds like chalupe, the South American word for cock roach. Thu Apr 10 05:42:16 -0700 2008 3579936 93538 Passadumkeg 7 3580249 Not cucaracha? Perhaps those South American ones are eight inches in diameter? Thu Apr 10 06:57:45 -0700 2008 3580045 137946 Scargod 8 3580904 No, cucaracha refers to another roach that is smoked. "La Cucaracha" is a drug prevention song. The lyrics "No que puede que fumar (+-)" Means that you shouldn't smoke the cucharacha and they don't mean BBQ. Nope in 8" in length, they scare the hell outtaya when you step on them barefoot at night. Not bad stir fried though. Thu Apr 10 09:28:03 -0700 2008 3580249 93538 Passadumkeg 9 3588432 The version I heard expressed the need for mary jane: La Cucaracha, La Cucaracha, ya no puede caminar. Por que no tiene, por que le falta, Marijuana para fumar! Translated, La Cucaracha (named for some popular object about which I am unfamiliar) can't go or move because it doesn't have any weed. Regarding the tostado/chalupa business, hear in la I've always thought a "tostada" (note feminine form of the noun) was either a flat, fried tortilla topped with a smear or dollop of refried beans, lettuce, cheese, and generally beef or chicken plus optionally onions, tomatoes, guacamole etc. It also means a flat fried tortilla topped with seafood (and nothing else save salsa). The former may well be Gringo-mex, the latter seems more popular with native Mexicans. Sat Apr 12 18:43:29 -0700 2008 3580904 20399 broncosaurus 10 3588447 You are absolutely correct on all counts and I stand corrected. But you must understand that I teach high school English in a small, conservative, New England town and spies are everywhere. And if I professed real knowledge of Mexican food, I'd be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail (Real local history!) as liberal!!!! PS I also learned Spanish by the beer method; never had a formal lesson. Sat Apr 12 18:52:07 -0700 2008 3588432 93538 Passadumkeg 11 3588552 Mrs. Uribe for me, in 1-3rd grades.(58-61) She was from Paraguay though, not Mexico. She was also our rhythm band teacher. Has served me well. Sat Apr 12 19:54:32 -0700 2008 3588447 10651 bbqboy 6 3580836 I've had lunch at both El Fenix and Cantina Loredo. I do remember thinking the food at El fenix was bad. Really bad. The food at Cantina Loredo...? I guess I need to own up to the fact that I'm a purist, and Cantina Loredo is what I think of as fusion food. When you serve pork shanks and call them "carnitas," what's wrong with this picture? Oh! That's another difference I find between Dallas TexMex and El Paso TexMex, as well as California and Baja California "CalMex." Carnitas! In those other places I've lived, "carnitas" are small cubes or chunks of pork that are cooked in their own juices, then drained and cooked a bit more to crisp them up a bit. Often served "family style" in restaurants, with a generous platter of carnitas, a basket of warm corn tortillas, and an assortment of things like cilantro (gotta have fresh cilantro with carnitas!), diced tomatoes, diced avocado or guacamole, sliced green onions, lettuce and/or cole slaw, sour cream and such. In this area I have ordered "carnitas" but been served what I call shredded pork. Well, it happened in one restuarant and after that, I didn't try again. So my question is, which version do you guys call "carnitas?" Chunks of unshredded pork or shredded pork? The other thing that's bugging me a lot lately is that it is getting more and more difficult to find Mexican restaurants that fry their own taco shells, except for "puffy tacos." I hate Taco Bell taco shells! <sigh> Do ya think I'm a fish out of water? Thu Apr 10 09:13:06 -0700 2008 3579936 112096 Caroline1 7 3580972 I think you need to sprout some legs and enjoy it. Shredded; I'm sorry! Keep looking, too. I'll try and help. I've been here in southern CT for almost six years now and I am just beginning to feel comfortable at finding my way around and knowing where the chow spots are. The Dallas-Ft. Worth "Metroplex" is roughly as big as Connecticut! If you haven't tried them I suggest Blue Mesa in Addison, Rosita's or Rafa's, in Inwood Village and La Cale Dos for Mexican seafood. It's been a while for these but Cuquita's on Henderson Avenue is worth a try (used to go there), How is Cristina's, El Norte or Luna de Noche in Plano? Thu Apr 10 09:41:30 -0700 2008 3580836 137946 Scargod 8 3581049 Caroline1, my heart aches when I hear El Paso's food called TexMex. Any student of history knows that El Paso was taken forcibly from the gentle and peaceful state of New Mexico during a siesta, (But that's ok, we don't want it back.). Just look at the food in El Paso. It is still New Mexican (tastes better), not TexMex, please! Shredded pork too. Thu Apr 10 09:57:41 -0700 2008 3580972 93538 Passadumkeg 9 3582022 LOL! Passadumkeg, you have a lovely sense of humor! Even today, there is a fairly large faction of El Pasoans who would like to secede from Texas and rejoin New Mexico. You now live in New Mexico, right? How often do you go to El Paso? Or rather, how far from it do you live? Today, El Paso, Juarez, and Las Cruces are fast turning into a metroplex of its own. Except crossing the bridges to shop in Juarez has become too much of an effort. It's gonna kill me when I have to pay stateside prices for a pint of Posa vanilla! I'm placing an order with my kids when they come for Thanksgiving... Untreated ristras so I can make my own enchilada sauce and have a nice kitchen decoration all at the same time. In the fall, I really miss the smell of chiles roasting out front of a market when I go shopping. <sigh> And I also miss my water rights from the Rio Grande to water my lawn! <grumble><grumble><grumble> Thu Apr 10 13:36:56 -0700 2008 3581049 112096 Caroline1 8 3581110 I started to say I've been to Blue Mesa, but I haven't. I've been to Blue Goose. Not bad if you order the camarones, but their nachos are the absolute worst imaginable! Anyway, I'm through with Mexican food for for a while. Stocking up on rice noodles to deep fry and watch them explode, and I'll be making steamed buns stuffed with pork, and REAL Chinese sweet and sour spare ribs with a sauce that is brown (not fluorescent red!) and so pungent with venegar you'd better not inhale when eating it or you'll choke! Good stuff! And a whole bunch of Chinese cook books on their way to bask in. And a cupboard full of gohan and nori and a bunch more Japanese cook books on their way too... Who cares if these Dallasites don't know shredded pork from carnitas? I'm gonna feast! '-) Thu Apr 10 10:08:44 -0700 2008 3580972 112096 Caroline1 7 3582490 Neither. In Michoacan, home of the very best carnitas, big 3-4 kilo chunks are cooked in huge caldrens (sp). This skin, fat, meat and bones. The fire is either a wood fire or a ring fired by propane. Either method, the pork is cooked in its own juice and fat over a long period of time. Basically the meat is boiled in its own oil. The pork here is too lean to prepare that way and consequently just isn't what I would thing of as real carnitas. For tacos, the meat is hacked off the big chunks and rough chopped. In each taco there is meat, fat and a little of the very chewy skin. Tortillas are hecho a mano and cooked while the meat is being chopped. A taco is two soft fresh tortillas with a big serving of meat. No "salad", cheese or sour cream. Maybe there will be some nopalitos or sliced manzano peppers, but maybe not. The very best carnitas, IMHO, are at Carnitas de Carmelo in Quiroga, Michoacan. Thu Apr 10 15:56:36 -0700 2008 3580836 60822 Pampatz 8 3592595 Sorry to disagree.... the best Carnitas are in Uruapan! Similar preparation... but much greater diversity in their use of the entire pig... for example you can find entire racks of ribs, a thick slice of tenderloing, ears, snout etc., whatever you want. Oh yeah... and the marinade made with orange peel & juice, garlic etc., used in Uruapan really is key to the best carnitas. Mon Apr 14 09:57:55 -0700 2008 3582490 42572 Eat_Nopal 9 5146597 ooooo pig snout.....yum Sun Nov 01 07:40:28 -0800 2009 3592595 11234 toodie jane 3 4527099 I think El Finix is horrible, and I don't understand why it is so popular. I also don't understand how in Texas, with all the great family owned Tex-Mex restaurants, how places like On The Border and Chewy's becoming dining options...ever. Sun Mar 22 08:10:26 -0700 2009 3578641 222865 FoodChic 1 3579884 Funny, this thread just got me back on a Mex kick, not that I left it for long. Holy guacamole Lone Ranger! Thu Apr 10 02:35:33 -0700 2008 3335920 93538 Passadumkeg 1 3579916 Hey, don't forget that quintessential Tex-Mex condiment: Pace Picante Sauce! Though it's changed for the processing worse over the years -- and though I've lived in NYC for 23 -- I still get a jones for it quite often (thank god they carry it at the bodega on the corner). Thu Apr 10 04:00:04 -0700 2008 3335920 73451 bebevonbernstein 2 3581085 Pace isn't the quintessential Tex-Mex condiment. Are you kidding me? At least in the Hill Country and Southwest Texas the usual Tex-Mex table condiment is a salsa "casera"/red salsa, perhaps pureed, and/or pico de gallo. That sugary pace crapola is for Midwestern suburbanites only. Pace is ubiquitous across the US merely because of it's heavy branding and catsup-like appeal. Growing up in Houston, no Tex-Mex place I ever ate at from the most commercial to the tiniest mom n pop served Pace(or sweet salsa, period) Thu Apr 10 10:04:05 -0700 2008 3579916 14985 aelph 3 3581453 Pace's sweetness is a relatively recent development. It was not like that a couple decades ago. Furthermore, this is just further proof of why it's fairly idiotic to speak of "Tex-Mex" as this monolithic thing: chunky tomato-based salsas -- basically the equivalent of what would happen if you mixed pico de gallo and a thin red salsa together instead of serving them separately -- are the norm in the panhandle, even if they're not seen much to the south and east. Thu Apr 10 11:27:12 -0700 2008 3581085 17548 BarmyFotheringayPhipps 4 3581573 Which is why I take pains to delineate the Tex-Mex I'm familiar with: that of the Hill Country and parts South and West. Another poster on this thread tends to take their apprehensions of specific locations(Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex and El Paso) and assume that those are the width and breadth of Tex-Mex(or, even Chinese-American food as evidenced in another thread). I vaguely remember Pace being not as sweet, but it's bland homogeneity and cooked-to-death vegetables are what I really dislike. Thu Apr 10 11:51:34 -0700 2008 3581453 14985 aelph 5 3581741 If you take the 3 Southern Plains states(Tx, Ok, and Ks) as a whole and then subdivide the regions, I think you are correct. If tex-mex originally meant the border area mingling of foods from both areas, it has since expanded far beond that. Maybe there is a Southern, Central and Northern Tex-Mex philosophy at work here. I think the same thing holds true for Cal-Mex , which seems to really be SoCal, and NoCal and beyond up the Pacific rim states. We grew up with a thin red sauce as our representative Hot Sauce condiment in Ks., no "salsa" in sight. But most of the rest of the dishes I grew up with (with a Texas born and bred Father and relatives spread across all 3 states mentioned)bear a strong kinship to the rest of the stuff being discussed here, owing to the close relationship between all. Culture travels North and South too, not just East and West. :) Thu Apr 10 12:31:06 -0700 2008 3581573 10651 bbqboy 5 3581804 aelph, I suspect it's more that you misread what I write than that I think TexMex is any sort of monolith. Read my posts. I have never said that. But I am trying to figure out what some of the variances are across the "TexMex" territory. It ain't the same all over! And I think youre mixing up "apprehensions" and "impressions." I'm not at all apprehensive about TexMex. '-) As for a bottled salsa, Pace USED to be pretty good, but that's a thing of the past, in my opinion. If you spot a bottle in your supermarket, try a jar of Jerez Salsa Casera. I think it's pretty good. Made in Mexico, and only available in jars in the last few years. I've used it for a lot of years, starting when it only came in a can. It comes in several degrees of heat. Thu Apr 10 12:48:12 -0700 2008 3581573 112096 Caroline1 6 3581932 Off the top of my head, use of "red" peppers, not green, tacos dorado/puffy tacos/deep fried tacos, mainly Beef(ground and otherwise) as the meat, cheese enchiladas in a smothered red sauce, yellow rather than white cheeses, lack of fruits and vegetables, and so on. I'm no expert, just calling on my 55 years of avidly eating any and all Mexican foods., Thu Apr 10 13:14:15 -0700 2008 3581804 10651 bbqboy 6 3582207 Caroline1- I didn't use the word monolith in my comment, "Barmy" did. :) Merriam-Webster: apprehension: def. 1--the act of perceiving or comprehending Not a fan of Jerez products, but Herdez -bottled- salsa casera is a pantry staple in my house...it closely resembles the table salsas I mention in other comments... Thu Apr 10 14:18:09 -0700 2008 3581804 14985 aelph 3 3586737 As someone who grew up in San Antonio (at the time when the first Taco Cabana opened), I'll beg to differ with your "midwestern suburbanite" comment. As others have noted, Pace used to be pretty damn good, and though it's certainly changed over the years (and even though I've made my own, which is just not the same), it's one of those tastes that instantly brings back memories of Texas. Sat Apr 12 04:13:21 -0700 2008 3581085 73451 bebevonbernstein 4 3587915 I'm not talking old Pace recipes or previous possible prevalence. For your single anecdote I can provide a passel of similar all derived from Midwestern suburbanite tastes in mediocre sugary salsa. For what it's worth, though I no longer live there, I grew up in Houston as the umpteenth generation of a Texan family. We may have had Pace in the cabinet for those days when Velveeta/Rotel queso was requested, but I never saw it(or similar salsas) when dining out. That's what I'm talking about and what most of this thread concerns; dining out. It's not as if, back in the mid-70's, you could buy much other than Pace anywhere whether at the Piggly Wiggly or Randall's////whether in Houston or Detroit, etc. Pace does not spell Tex-Mex, for me. If anything it conjures up decades of generic, placeless party dips. Sat Apr 12 14:43:41 -0700 2008 3586737 14985 aelph 5 3587982 That's right, keep this on the straight and narrow! I never saw anything like Pace in a restaurant in Dallas, or anywhere else, for that matter. I've had thin, orangeish hot sauce and fresh made salsa and some that had a canned tomato whang, but not thick and sweet, like Pace. The one that Mercado Juarez (Dallas) serves warm is a winner with me. I think it has meat juices in it. The fresh salsa from Casa Valdez in Rancho de Taos, NM, is the salsa I just love and have never seen duplicated. Sat Apr 12 15:15:33 -0700 2008 3587915 137946 Scargod 5 3587997 My goodness, you're grouchy, aren't you? '-) Pace Picante Sauce. Most people -- I would hazard the vast majority -- associate Pace with their TV commercials with the cowboys around a campfire howling about a picante sauce from... "New York City!" Then the commercial goes on to extoll the greatness of Pace. Advertising is a very strong tool. Pace occupies more shelf space than any other salsa in every supermarket where I've ever shopped. But like so many things, from Pace's very own salsa to things like Formula 409, and a whoooole bunch of other products, manufacturers seem unable to leave well enough alone. Pace USED to put out a pretty decent salsa. Chunky, flavorful, not too hot. It was my favorite salsa for lazy huevos rancheros. Sofen some corn tortillas in a little hot oil, fry the eggs in the oil, dump in a bunch of Pace in the frying pan and heat it up, then pour it over the eggs atop the tortillas. A dollop of sour cream and some refried beans on the side and everyone would think I'd worked my fingers to the bone. Who am I to argue? Then Pace decided to expand their line and now I can't find any of their huge variety that, in my opinion, is close to being as good as the original. Now, as for your remarks to bebevonbernstein, you assail him/her with your personal opinions while ragging on me for expressing mine. If you will be so kind as to read my posts in this thread, there is no place where I say that my experience or opinions are universal re TexMex. Wouldn't it be stupid of me to write about TexMex (or Chinese) food in cities I've never been to or restaurants I've never eaten in? And that's pretty much my attitude about any and all foods I discuss on this forum. I cannot speak to what I have not had. Sat Apr 12 15:24:22 -0700 2008 3587915 112096 Caroline1 6 3588044 Are you forgetting that one massive thread on Chinese-American food? I'm not attacking bebevon... I'm responding, strongly, to the implication that Pace is ubiquitous in Tex-Mex. Maybe in San Antonio...then again, San Antonio Tex-Mex has always been a little bit...off. Sat Apr 12 15:45:06 -0700 2008 3587997 14985 aelph 7 3588138 Caroline1, you must excuse God; what can one expect for a Texan stranded in Connecticut? You'd be grouchy too! Just for the record: Pace is junque. Sat Apr 12 16:36:39 -0700 2008 3588044 93538 Passadumkeg 8 3591770 You don't have to deify me. Yes, I'm grouchy. It's not from being in CT. Are you saying that Pace is chicke? BTW, It seems that Newman's Own salsa is big up here. I find it too sweet, not hot enough and chunks (particularly tomato)are way too big. Mon Apr 14 05:17:51 -0700 2008 3588138 137946 Scargod 9 3592662 I shudder at the mere thought of Newman's Own Peach Salsa! Pace is guano. Funny though, I resisted my son in trying Green Mountain Gringo Hot Salsa, because of the name, but damn, for a jarred salsa, it's good!! You don't get Sister's Salsa down there do you? Mon Apr 14 10:14:11 -0700 2008 3591770 93538 Passadumkeg 10 3594031 Just bought fresh Santa Barbara Salsa, Habanero and Lime. Not bad. A little sweet, probably a lot of Guar gum and there's yellow bell pepper in it. Not too bad a bite; actually fairly mild. AFAIK there is no Sister's salsa in Dallas. Remember I'm not really "down there" anymore. Just visit regularly, like U. Mon Apr 14 16:25:28 -0700 2008 3592662 137946 Scargod 11 3594347 Sister's is a local Maine "fresh" salsa. Quite good. Must be refrigerated. Mon Apr 14 18:12:22 -0700 2008 3594031 93538 Passadumkeg 11 3595329 I got out my microscope and found the ingredients list's #2 ingredient is "peppers" and #4 is carrots! This from a "Habanero" salsa that isn't very hot (which explains all the bell pepper). It's Xanthum gum, not Guar that I was sensing on my palate. Salt is #6 at 8%DV or (190 gm/serving) which I guess is not unusually high. All in all, if you don't mind the slight sliminess from the thickener and the sweetness, it does have a pretty good taste for commercial. I still prefer to make my own "watery" salsa. Footnote: Perhaps everyone here knows this; the FDA says regarding ingredients-"Listing ingredients in descending order of predominance by weight means that the ingredient that weighs the most is listed first, and the ingredient that weighs the least is listed last" Tue Apr 15 06:23:04 -0700 2008 3594031 137946 Scargod 8 4527124 You are right about Pace being "junque." I spent the first 30 years of my life not likingd salsa because everything I had was like Pace or some other store bought garbage. It wasn't until I moved to Texas that I found out what real salsa is about. Now I'm addicted and frequently make my own. Salsa is a wonderful thing. Sun Mar 22 08:20:49 -0700 2009 3588138 222865 FoodChic 7 3590245 LOL! Are you referring to the thread in which so many maintained that if a Cantonese cook creates a Cantonese dish while living in American, then it cannot possibly be Chinese cooking? That thread? No. Haven't forgotten it. '-) My point is that you are doing exactly what you have (wrongly, in my opinion) accused me (and others) of doing. You are taking the position that your personal experiences must be universal and the rest of us better buy into it. There ARE people for whom Pace Picante Sauce is strongly associated with "TexMex" food. Your personal opinions and/or experiences won't change that. Advertising is a very strong tool! Sun Apr 13 13:53:54 -0700 2008 3588044 112096 Caroline1 2 3582291 This is from memory, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think Pace products are Californ. based. None has crossed my thresh hold in decades! Thu Apr 10 14:46:12 -0700 2008 3579916 93538 Passadumkeg 3 3588036 Not California. San Antonio. At least that's where they were developed and originally marketed from. They're now owned by Campbell's Soup (what isn't?), so who knows where the stuff is manufactured now. Maybe even "outsourced" to Taiwan? Sat Apr 12 15:40:50 -0700 2008 3582291 112096 Caroline1 4 4525675 My Father used to bring the litle bottles of Pace Picante Sauce back to us in Glendale, CA in the 60's when he traveled to San Antonio. The glass was thinner and the bottles often broke. He intruduced the sauce to a gourmet grocery store in Pasadena and the rest is history. You're the first person I've heard who remembers that the sauce used to be different. It was thinner for one thing and the sauce tasted fresher. I still use it though and add a little to my guacamole. It still tastes good on a slice of shrp cheddar too. Here in the Seattle area there are only a few good Mexican food restaurants. Every year or so I travel to Solana Beach, CA where I get my fix at Tony's Jacal, a family run restaurant that has been there since 1946. Sat Mar 21 14:13:33 -0700 2009 3588036 276278 cshean 5 4525753 I remember a Mexican restaurant in Seattle, perhaps on 12th or Broadway, that had a frog motif (I think). I ate there two or three times and thought it decent. Can't find it, or remember name... Sat Mar 21 14:55:12 -0700 2009 4525675 137946 Scargod 5 4527036 Oh my god...Tony's Jacal. Other than locals, not so very many people know about that place :-) And if you can find it in Seattle, try Herdez salsas. They're really quite good for a jarred (or canned in some areas) salsa Sun Mar 22 07:44:55 -0700 2009 4525675 10506 DiningDiva 1 3583295 One thing that I've heard from many sources is that flour tortillas come down from the north while corn tortillas come up from the south in Mexico (Mayan culture). Dishes derived from these, are also originally native to the respective areas, ie, burritos (at least, what we think of as burritos today) are northern food and tacos are southern food. Today's ubiquitous "healthy" product is the stuffed burrito, which was at one time known as a SF or mission burrito - from SF's mission district. From what I've read and traveled (and eaten), there are lots of regional enclaves throughout the southwest - many styles and ingredient differences, so just using two large classifications (cal-mex vs.tex-mex) makes the distinctions difficult and perhaps less meaningful. New Mexico, especially northern NM, has their own style of so many foods, especially chile (not chili). No doubt that the fish taco got famous in San Diego, but the originals were always on corn tortillas - now, so many use flour tortillas. In OKC, the Mexican places never served fried tortilla chips, but put out steamed whole corn tortillas in a warmer with butter and some hot gardiniera. My wife (from OKC) was totally confused when we walked into a place that asked her whether she wanted chicken or beef in her chille relleno - as far as she was concerned chille rellenos were stuffed with cheese - period. When you take a base cuisine that's as old and diverse as Mexican (or Chinese or Italian...) it's going to be really hard to nail every regional difference down to their origins. It is entirely possible that you will continue to have a hard time defining it, just like the rest of us! Thu Apr 10 22:04:49 -0700 2008 3335920 10312 applehome 2 4526129 My understanding is that there aren't very many parts of Mexico that are dry enough to grow wheat, which is why flour tortillas are more a product of the northern (Sonoran desert ) part of Mexico. I haven't traveled extensively in Mexico, but I never saw flour tortilla one in La Paz, Cabo, or Acapulco. Sat Mar 21 17:06:04 -0700 2009 3583295 105625 EWSflash 3 4527758 Yes - but I'd champ a little bit about categorizing the Sonoran dessert as the northern limit. Given that pretty much all of Texas, Southern California and the attached states were part of the history of Spanish colonization and the Mexican people, the northern history of wheat is most likely even further north. Lets forget, for the moment, the ironies of history, as we continue to discuss the level and amount of influence of the native foods and culture that remain in tact, 200 years after the imperial land-grab and takeover by the latest group of white Europeans. In the long view, who's illegally immigrating, where? We might as well try to build a wall to keep the corn tortillas out. ;-) Sun Mar 22 13:03:14 -0700 2009 4526129 10312 applehome 4 4527803 History is just that. Now, what do we do? I spent time in the Harlingen/Brownsville area of Texas and my relatives, from that area, were used to the Mexicans working for them. It is a bitter pill for them to see immigrants, illegal or not, gaining the upper hand down there. As you say, let's forget this for the moment; this is Chowhound... I agree: we might as well make a wall out of tortillas. Sun Mar 22 13:23:06 -0700 2009 4527758 137946 Scargod 4 4547293 "We might as well try to build a wall to keep the corn tortillas out. ;-)" LOL! All I meant was that I really don't think you're going to find flour tortillas very far south of the Mexican border since the climate is too humid to grow wheat very far south. They grow wheat as far north as Canada, don't they? Sat Mar 28 17:47:37 -0700 2009 4527758 105625 EWSflash 5 4548836 Canada is a big wheat producer. Sun Mar 29 12:33:15 -0700 2009 4547293 137946 Scargod 1 3585845 I think that 'Tex-Mex' and 'Cal-Mex' have always had a lot more in common than partisans will admit. As a lifelong California boy who first visited the DFW area in the late '70s, I was surprised to find that the local 'Mex' cooking was Identical to what I grew up with in the SFBA: yellow cheese filled enchiladas with brown sauce, ground beef crispy tacos, etc. SFBA residents can still find this 'cuisine' at El Charro in Lafayette. Never encountered a poblano chile in restaurants of either state back then (except in the supermarket). IIRC tostadas were the the same critter. Taquito (not taco) has been the most common name for rolled, deep fried, meat filled corn tortillas all over the southwest U.S. Flauta usually refers to the flour tortilla equivalent of the taquito, usually but not always fried. I blame the b*****s at Taco Hell for arbitrarily misusing Mexican food names - gordita and chapula come to mind. Heck, even the big Armenian bakery in Orange County sells Greek bread under the name 'gordita' - grrrr. Both states have moved on in more interesting and tasty directions with IMO more Cal influence moving into Texas. Unfortunately there has been a down side in Cali. More low end Mexican restaurants have stopped using roasted Anaheim chiles in green sauces and use the newer, cheaper, bland jalapenos instead. PLEASE - someone take these crappy jalapenos away! Fri Apr 11 16:11:36 -0700 2008 3335920 23712 DiveFan 1 3588163 Why is it that everyone usually talks only of Tex- or Cal-Mex when halfway between is a nice alternative, Sonoran-Mex. Lots of mole and chimichangas, although authentic spots with dirt floors and christmas-tree lights are harder to come by, nowadays. Sat Apr 12 16:48:57 -0700 2008 3335920 11791 DonShirer 2 3588242 Esse, que dice, dude? You want good Sonoran, just head to Sonora. But vato, make sure you got your passaporte or you may get the big chimmichingas! A lot of mole w/ a frijole, chapo. Gimme a sonoran stacked, red chile enchilada with a huevo frito laid on me, proffe? Seguro. Sat Apr 12 17:15:48 -0700 2008 3588163 93538 Passadumkeg 2 4526152 Yep, that's what I grew up on! I appreciate many different kinds of Mexican food, and love most of them. If you look at the geographic differences in Mexico, it's kinda silly to expect the same food from all over, whether it be mountains, seashore, desert, jungle, Caribbean coast, prairie- and most of those varying because of altitude too. Pace picante sauce sucks, though. I didn't have it long ago when it was different,but in its current iteration is about as Mexican as Taco Bell. Feh. Sat Mar 21 17:13:10 -0700 2009 3588163 105625 EWSflash 1 3938264 Here's an interesting post I found on another board that sums up some of the differences between Cal Mex and Tex Mex: "With CalMex you get a lot of brown rice - fish tacos - veggie or fish burritos - mostly made with black beans. Cabbage slaw is common.Chili powder is used more prevalently than comino. Pico De Gallo and salsa will likely have fruits in it. They use common pepper sauces (i.e. tabasco type sauces) as a source of spice. A lot of use of red and yellow (sweet) bell peppers. With TexMex you get refried beans mashed with bacon and bacon grease, yellow cheese enchiladas with varied sauces.Comino is a common flavor with all dishes. Salsas won't have fruit but will have habanero or at a minimum serrano peppers with lots of cilantro. Tomatillos are prevalent as a salsa or sauce with sour cream. Pablanos, serranos, and habaneros are used more frequently." Thu Aug 07 11:12:52 -0700 2008 3335920 71294 ammichaels 2 3938668 I hate it when this happens, but...I really have to strongly disagree with the description of Cal-Mex above. As a native Californian who has been eating and enjoying Mexican food on both sides of the border for an entire life time, I find the Cal-Mex characterization inaccurate. While you will find fish and veggie burritos, you won't find lots of brown rice, nor are black beans used very extensively. Cabbage slaw is not common and chile powder is not used to the exclusion of cumin. Pico de gallo usually does NOT have fruit in it and pepper sauces are NOT a common source of spice. Any color sweet peppers are not, nor have they ever been widely used in Cal-Mex cooking. What you do find is abundant use of (a wide variety of) fresh vegetables, chicken (rather than the more traditional pork), most chiles, fresh salsas, fish/seafood and flour tortillas (rather than the more traditional corn). Thu Aug 07 12:51:14 -0700 2008 3938264 10506 DiningDiva 3 3939209 Agreed completely. Cal Mex is completely mis-characterized. Thu Aug 07 15:16:04 -0700 2008 3938668 42572 Eat_Nopal 3 3939383 Cabbage slaw is common here (SoCal) only in fish tacos, for which it is indispensable. As for any uniformity between North and South, I believe that's true only in a very limited sense - the SFB "Mission-style" burrito cannot be found in LA County, to the dismay of its aficionados and the blank indifference of everybody else. As for what is or isn't available up north I couldn't tell you; I've spent so little time there lately (I moved away in '73) that all I know is by hearsay, and my friend in Palo Alto tells me that Mexican groceries are much harder to find there than they were back then, probably because there's so much less industrial agriculture in the Bay Area nowadays. I know that when he used to visit us regularly he'd always want to go shopping in both the Asian and Latino markets for bottled/canned goods he couldn't find up there anymore. Thu Aug 07 17:01:32 -0700 2008 3938668 11478 Will Owen 4 3939506 Technically there is no Cabbage Slaw used in fish tacos. Raw shredded cabbage is set against the hot fish... its all dressed at the last minute with a White Sauce (Mayo & Lime Juice) as well as Salsa. The cabbage texture is crunchier & the proportion of Cabbage to Sauce is higher than in Southern style Slaws. I don't think this is a feature of Cal-Mex vs. Tex-Mex... its more a feature of Actual Mexican vs. Not Actual Mexican (meaning shredded cabbage in various guises is ubiquitous in much of Mexico). Thu Aug 07 18:01:15 -0700 2008 3939383 42572 Eat_Nopal 5 4733984 After having spent time at Salvadoran and other Central-American restaurants, I'm finding a lot more shredded cabbage than I would have suspected when I wrote the comments above. Mon Jun 01 17:38:18 -0700 2009 3939506 11478 Will Owen 4 5146625 Will, your friend need only to cruise Middlefield Road to find the groceries; also some big chains of markets like Mi Pueblo etc are easy to find, and carry lots more Mexican brands now than just a year ago. Almost all have instore bakeries for pan dulces and cakes and fresh tortillas, and have a Deli-Mex as Melanie Wong calls them. Good cheap eats. Sun Nov 01 07:52:26 -0800 2009 3939383 11234 toodie jane 3 3941600 As a former Texan (if there is such a thing) the first thing I noticed about California Mexican food is that rice (brown or white) is put into the burritos! At first I thought it was to save money, kind of like an extra filler, but then I realized it was just the "California Way" of making Mexican burritos. In TX they stuff the burritos with as much refried beans and cheese that will fit inside the tortilla without it bursting; rice is a side dish topped with more beans and cheese... not that either is better, but definitely different. And as other posters have noted, Tex Mex is much heavier on cheese in general, I especially like the Queso which is usually made with a processed cheese so it is creamy, vs. the stretchy "real" cheese used in other Mexican cuisines. Ok, so maybe not so healthy, but I miss it anyway! :-) Fri Aug 08 13:11:21 -0700 2008 3938668 205148 ideabaker 4 3941613 Actually, rice in burritos is a regional think in CA. You'd be hard pressed to find rice in a burrito in San Diego and a lot of Los Angeles. In fact, other than fish tacos, San Diego's claim to Cal-Mex fame is the CAB - Carne Asada Burrito. It's a jumbo flour tortilla, stuffed with about a 1/2 pound of carne asada, some pico and some guac (SD-speak for guacamole). That's it. No beans, no cheese, and absolutely NO rice. I do like Tex-Mex queso made with Velveeta and Ro-Tel. You're right probably not very healthy, but with a couple of beers it really hits the spot :-) Fri Aug 08 13:15:36 -0700 2008 3941600 10506 DiningDiva 5 3942574 DiningDiva, I've never been to San Diego, but everywhere else I've been in California (L.A., Sacramento, San Francisco and some places in between) has had those rice stuffed burritos, usually with black beans and then whatever else they had to offer. Nice to know I might find another kind of Burrito (my stomach's growling after hearing your CAB description!) I can search for my next trip out. Yeah, the Velveeta and Ro-Tel/ Jalepeno Queso is hard to beat... I guess if you keep it down to a couple of times a year it couldn't be that bad. Plus if you drink beers or margaritas with it I believe the alcohol dissolves the fat and cholesterol ;-). Fri Aug 08 20:50:50 -0700 2008 3941613 205148 ideabaker 6 3942682 DiningDiva is right... in most Local San Diego and Los Angeles Mexican restaurants a carne asada burrito is: a lot of Meat with Cilantro, onions, and sauce (not necessarily in that order). Sometimes the sauce is guac, sometimes it is a red chili sauce. The whole thing is usually wrapped in foil for serving. It's as much a signature dish as a "wiz with" in Phila but tastes better IMO. Intense crisp flavors, nothing to coat your mouth and dull the flavors... great. Those same restaurants usually sell tacos that are two soft corn tortillas stacked and topped with a mound of meat, cillantro, onions, and sauce. I've had Mexican food in pretty much every corner of the US (and a sampling of the middle) and a lot of it is not great...but the worst by far is in Dallas. It sounds paranoid but I've wondered if it is some sort of systematic racism actually -- a deliberate perversion of a culture's food to insult the Mexican people. I don't believe that but I haven't come up with any better explanation. If I want my mouth coated with greasy yellow slime and mealy "meat" I...well, I guess I know where to go. :( I've lived in Dallas for going on two years and every so often I forget just how badly they abuse the term "Mexican" in relation to food. But I'm not bitter. :) Fri Aug 08 22:07:15 -0700 2008 3942574 201424 gimmeflavor 7 3944287 Ha ha, gimmeflavor... I lived in Houston, and don't think I need to say more about the Houston/Dallas differences, in all cuisines as well as other things :-). Those Carne Asada Burritos sound heavenly! Though, growing up in Houston, a refried beans, cheese, meat and greens topped burrito can't be beat (though I was in college then, so one burrito meant three meals!). You've got me wondering about your "Dallas Theory" of Tex-Mex? Could it be true? I was once pelted by rocks (with my brother) when we told some Dallasites that we were from Houston (but that was during the Oilers/ Cowboys days...). Sat Aug 09 22:57:15 -0700 2008 3942682 205148 ideabaker 7 5146630 Is it hard to find good canned sauces and ingredients in Dallas? my brother moved there for 4 months, maybe he could use a care package? He is lucky enough to be downtown, directly across the street from the big farmer's market. Sun Nov 01 07:56:13 -0800 2009 3942682 11234 toodie jane 6 3944359 Very few taquerias in SF use black beans by default, it's all pinto; if you don't want rice, just say so--I normally get mine without it. Sun Aug 10 00:36:04 -0700 2008 3942574 79880 xanadude 7 3945716 Good point, xanadude (p.s. love your screen name, ex-roller skater here); guess I never think to customize my order when I try out places... part of the fun is seeing what they give me! Sun Aug 10 17:56:05 -0700 2008 3944359 205148 ideabaker 1 3945989 Take a look at the border between the US and Mexico. It is quite long. Take a look at the different states, that form that border. Each is unique. Look at the cuisine of each state (Mexico & US) and think of the differences - look at, for instance Gulf seafood vs Pacific (of Gulf Of California), and imagine how different these are. Do you get a picture in your mind yet? There are a dozen threads on Tex-Mex, and as many on California-Mexican. Many folk have made some great comments on these. The cuisines are different, though the border is a common thread. In very general terms, Tex-Mex is a beef-based "colorado red/brown" sauce, while CA-Mex is usually tomato-based and much lighter. Each is great, though they are different. Hunt Sun Aug 10 20:15:22 -0700 2008 3335920 11329 Bill Hunt 2 3946306 I'm with you on this one, Bill. But I'm in New Zealand now and frankly I'd be happy with ANY kind of Mexican or Mexican Fusion food at the moment! Mon Aug 11 02:53:47 -0700 2008 3945989 205148 ideabaker 3 3949032 I understand. I am in AZ, and there is plenty of various Mexican fare, but full-boat Tex-Mex is not usually one of the choices. Closest that I've found is a small restaurant that features fare for Jalisco. Yes, I know my Mexican geography, and it is not close to the Texas/Mexican border, but the sauces and spices are not THAT far apart. I enjoy the Baja and Sonoran fare, but do miss the heavier meals from Laredo y Nuevo Laredo, et al. Hunt PS at least you have some world-class Sauvignon Blancs and some up-n-coming Pinot Noirs at your disposal! If you ever get the chance, Cloudy Bad does a Late Harvest Riesling that is to die for. Small production, but better than 90% of the GR Eiseweins, and at 1/10th the price. Wish we could get it in the US, but the Kiwis drink it all... Mon Aug 11 20:14:00 -0700 2008 3946306 11329 Bill Hunt 4 3949128 Thanks for the tip on the Riesling, Bill... have been on a Sauvignon Blanc journey for the past eight weeks here, heading back next week, so I can take a look for the Riesling before I leave this weekend! It is astounding the specials the grocery stores put on in their extensive wine sections... often ten bucks (Kiwi, that's about eight bucks American) a bottle for very fine, highly rated wines! [But I still miss my Tex Mex :-)] . Had some Maseca and a tortilla press shipped over to me here so my friends can experience fresh corn tortillas- will make "real" enchiladas (with corn, not flour tortillas) for my g'bye for now bash in a couple of days! Now only to be here long enough to grow poblanos for Chiles Rellenos! Mon Aug 11 20:58:38 -0700 2008 3949032 205148 ideabaker 5 3949435 I know it's not exactly the same as fresh, but my wife (from Oklahoma) used to make chiles rellenos from canned chiles when we were stationed in Germany and could get absolutely nothing close to mexican. She used the canned whole green anaheims, but poblanos are available as well. Here's a site I use a lot - I linked to a can of poblanos, but you can look around for others: http://www.mexgrocer.com/15120.html And Bill... I bow to your superior wine knowledge, but kiwi Rieslings better than German Eisweins... hard to believe. Much of the Eisweins we had there were way too sweet for anything but a dessert wine, but for sipping, the Trockenberenausleses I had from the Badener region (we lived in the Black Forest) never got exported - the locals drank it all - but I've never had its equal here in the US. I had someone who worked for me who's uncle was a Lufthansa pilot - he'd bring in a bottle or two every now and then. Unfortunately, I had to fire the guy... Do you guys know any pilots or attendants that work for New Zealand Air? Tue Aug 12 02:57:02 -0700 2008 3949128 10312 applehome 6 3951756 I know. It is blasphemy, but when I tasted the CB Late Harvest Riesling, I was blown completely away. We managed to do a side-by-side with some TBA's and two Eisweins, and it was a consensus - the CB won, across the board. Unfortunately, I have never been able to find it beyond the winery. I have tried to pull in favors from three distributors/importers, and it’s been no go. If you ever get the opportunity, give it a go. I think you'll be surprised at the many layers of flavor and the nuances. Dyn-O-mite stuff. No pilots, or flight crews, any longer. I guess we just have to go and bring back all we can carry, or hide. Our bottles came back in the lap of a good friend, along with a bottle of really poor port-styled wine. We threw out the port and used the decanter bottle. Everyone agreed that this was not something that the Kiwis had quite learned yet. With all of the OZ port-styled wines, that are quite good in their own right, I was surprised, as were my friends. Really poor stuff. Now, to the Tex-Mex, I think I'd look at Spätlese, or a lighter Auslese. Obviously, I'm looking at GR and not domestic. For Cal-Mex, with a lot of raw tomatoes, the wine that I'm drinking right now, has potential: Picchetti Santa Cruz Sangiovese. It has good acid, low alcohol and should work, especially if the tomatoes' acid is forward and there is not that much heat. Still, a Margarita isn't bad there either. Hunt Tue Aug 12 18:17:30 -0700 2008 3949435 11329 Bill Hunt 5 3951711 I usually think of something with some real fruit forward, when pairing with Mexican. With the rich beef/veal sauces of Tex-Mex, I think of a lower alcohol, but full-bodied Zinfandel. For Baja fare, the SB's, especially some of the domestic fruit-forward wines, like the Groth Napa, do come to mind. Though I am an avowed wino, I more often order up a Margarita. Still, with any heat, a bit more sweetness (fruit, not RS), is my normal direction. And yes, I miss my Tex-Mex too. I've been trying to talk my wife into driving on our next trip from AZ to NOLA, just to get my "fix." So far, it looks like airlines, but there is always "next time... " Hunt Tue Aug 12 18:01:01 -0700 2008 3949128 11329 Bill Hunt 6 3952211 Several years ago I did a master class with Rick Bayless and Jill Gubesch the sommelier for his restaurants. The primary focus of the class was pairing wines with Mexican food. Here are a few of the suggestions I can remember * Pair the wine with the sauce, not the protein or center of the plate item * Focus on the primary chile in the sauce since botanically, chiles are a fruit. * Sauces that are green chile based seem to pair better with white and the sauces based on dried red chiles seem to pair better with red wines. * Since Mexican food uses a good deal of citrus and vinegar, pair the acidity of the wine to the acidity of the food * Match the intensity of the fruit in the wine to the spiciness of the sauce And that's about all I can remember, except I think they said that the sparklers go particularly well with masa based items like antojitos Tue Aug 12 21:27:50 -0700 2008 3951711 10506 DiningDiva 7 3952295 Those sound like wise tenants. I can not find fault with any of those. Thanks for sharing those tidbits. With big masa, I'm likely to go towards Chardonnay, and that includes many sparklers. Something that no one, myself included, has mentioned is that Rosé sparkers go with a lot of spicy dishes, and have the "guts" to stand up to richer fare. These are not used, or mentioned, often enough. Next Tex-Mex meal, I'll try for a Rosé sparkler, if I can find one on the wine list. Hunt Tue Aug 12 22:13:18 -0700 2008 3952211 11329 Bill Hunt 1 3949444 Tex Mex vs Cal Mex.? No problem. take the high road and eat New Mex! Just made a batch of Hatch red chile from pods w/ pork for enchiladas(no tomato!). Mana from heaven! Tue Aug 12 03:29:02 -0700 2008 3335920 93538 Passadumkeg 1 3980605 The Mexican food I grew up eating in Dallas was at El Chico. A few years later my mother and I used to meet for lunch at El Fenix. And, yes, I remember Pancho's Mexican buffet (they used to have one in Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico too). My parents and I thought chili was a Mexican dish. I got some in San Antonio when I was around 6-7 years old that was so hot I couldn't eat it and now I can inhale Tabasco sauce and Sambal Oelek. To me black olives in Mexican food is an abomination. I lived in the Guadalajara-Lake Chapala area of Mexico for 10 years and most of the food there is different from either Tex-Mex or Cal-Mex. Of those two, I still much prefer Tex-Mex and can cook Tex-Mex and Mexican from Mexico. Sat Aug 23 08:48:12 -0700 2008 3335920 143360 RevImmigrant 2 4031279 Though I have been fortunate enough to travel throughout much of Mexico, I still have fond memories of the El Chico's on Vet's Blvd, in Metairie, LA. Their Jalisco Dinner (better than any meal throughtout the state of Jalisco) was a delight. Yes, it was an Americanized take on Tex-Mex, but always well done. Still after a month of dining all over Mexico, my highlight was dining at a corrugated metal shed, in Laredo! Though I live in an area that has some great Sonoran Mexican, I gravitate first to Tex-Mex, and then to New Mexican with the American Indian influence to the Mexican fare. Maybe it's about what one grows up with. Hunt Fri Sep 12 20:58:56 -0700 2008 3980605 11329 Bill Hunt 1 3982035 Some things I noticed that are different about TexMex is it tends to use much more cumin. It also uses a lot of ground beef and runny nacho cheese sauce. Sun Aug 24 02:39:29 -0700 2008 3335920 204037 SD Native 2 4031284 Cumin seed and beef broth for more of the sauces. Some tomato, but basically a reduced beef broth. Onions are also usually sauteed, rather than raw - though not always. Hunt Fri Sep 12 21:01:13 -0700 2008 3982035 11329 Bill Hunt 3 4733946 Couldn't help but notice the date and time on this post, my birthday, the 13th my wife's and to celebrate we watched Hurricane Ike rage in the night as power transformers popped by the scores here in Houston, meanwhile Galveston and the Bolivar Peninsula under 12-18 feet of water. Grilling was the order of the day afterwards, fridges and freezers emptied as whole neighborhoods shared whatever they had. After being days or weeks without power, and few restaurants open, I think most would settle for mediocore Tex-Mex, hell, for that matter, even Cal-Mex. A little hardship, or alot for so many, makes you appreciate the simpler things. Mon Jun 01 17:27:03 -0700 2009 4031284 198541 James Cristinian 4 4734591 Oh, I understand completely. We watched the coverage of Ike 24-7. We have family in New Orleans and also Gulfport, MS. Then, there are good friends and other family members scattered along the entire Gulf Coast. Having lived through Camille and Betsy, plus two-dozen lesser storms, I understand what you are speaking of. I was probably typing, as The Weather Channel was giving coverage. At those times, anything tastes good. Coleman stoves are not just for camping in the Colorad High Country. Understand, Hunt Mon Jun 01 21:28:27 -0700 2009 4733946 11329 Bill Hunt 1 4511806 I have spent a substantial amount of time in Southern California where I have a lot of family. I haven't been to Texas but I've had Tex Mex at chain restaurants. That said I am probably biased because of my SoCal history and actual lack of mom and pop Tex Mex in the actual area. I will say that I am not sure how tacos can get much better than the tacos in Highland Park from the taco trucks. The 4" corn tortillas, lightly oiled and pan fried, the carne asada or carnitas, the salsa roja, the diced onion, the cilantro, and the radishes and cucumbers on the side to cool things down. Wash three of those down with a mexican coke or a lime jarritos and you're in heaven. Click on the tiny pic at the bottom of this reply and you'll what these heavenly delights look like. Mon Mar 16 21:43:58 -0700 2009 3335920 275067 claycr125 2 4515145 That looks mighty tasty. Good taco trucks are one of the things I miss. Tue Mar 17 20:46:47 -0700 2009 4511806 19148 aynrandgirl 2 4517033 Having grown up near the Highland Park, inside Dallas, I can assure you that they would never let a taco truck get near there. Wed Mar 18 12:44:41 -0700 2009 4511806 137946 Scargod 3 4538805 Who are they? That is sad that "they" wouldn't enjoy these delightful treats. Check out this site. www.saveourtrucks.org. They are trying to protect these hard working latin people from the evil L.A. city government. Also check this site out. http://tacohunt.blogspot.com/. This guy knows a thing or two about SoCal tacos. I would hate to live in Dallas and not be able to enjoy the tacos that I grew up loving because this "they" mafia won't let taco trucks in. Wed Mar 25 18:55:21 -0700 2009 4517033 275067 claycr125 4 4539472 "They" are the Highland Park police. Highland Park is the city within a city, near SMU, in Dallas. This enclave of the very wealthy has a long history of profiling and harassing minorities who may just be passing through. They even harassed me, a WASP, who lived nearby. I'm sure they don't even allow ice cream trucks in HP. Thu Mar 26 04:21:01 -0700 2009 4538805 137946 Scargod 5 4547295 Then keep me out of Highland park, yo. Claycr125 had me drooling with the description. Sat Mar 28 17:51:46 -0700 2009 4539472 105625 EWSflash 5 4731865 "They" isn't only the police, it's the residents of HIghland Park...a wealthy, hyprocritical, neighborhood in Dallas. Mon Jun 01 06:16:14 -0700 2009 4539472 222865 FoodChic 2 4731465 In threads like this one, I do agree. It is what one grows up with. For me, it was some version of Tex-Mex, so AZ and CA are not so much my thing. Does not mean that some dishes are not great, only the general theme is different, as are many of the ingredients. Hunt Sun May 31 21:26:48 -0700 2009 4511806 11329 Bill Hunt 2 4731696 "I haven't been to Texas but I've had Tex Mex at chain restaurants. " That's kinda like saying, "I haven't been to France, but Ive had some French wines". Even within Dallas or Ft. Worth, never mind the huge state, Tex-Mex varies widely. A fair amount of the chain stuff there is slop and not a good representation. Those tacos are making me hungry... PS: I don't think most chains serve soft tacos; just hard shell ones. Mon Jun 01 04:04:07 -0700 2009 4511806 137946 Scargod 3 4731940 ...."but I've had Tex Mex at chain restaurants." A better analogy, I feel, is that I've had pizza at chain restaurants. Pizza Hut, Dominoes, Uno, do not represent good pizza nor do chains for Tex Mex. Holy Guacomole Batman! Mon Jun 01 06:47:43 -0700 2009 4731696 93538 Passadumkeg 4 4732018 Ah, I see you're still alive an' kickin'! Didn't drown in the bay... Not to stove up to type. (Pass just did another kayak tour). Any good chow stories from the outing? Mon Jun 01 07:15:41 -0700 2009 4731940 137946 Scargod 5 4732367 Naw, just a full day, no cookin', but I kept the wind on my stern. Made an excellent lobster, crab and anise sauce over angel hair pasta. Mon Jun 01 09:13:26 -0700 2009 4732018 93538 Passadumkeg 4 4734596 I think that it would depend on the "chain." Having had Tex-Mex on both sides of the border, almost all of the way around, I have to say that a Dallas (IIRC) mini-chain, El Chico, had some very good and highly representative fare. Without a name, and location, one cannot say for sure. Hunt Mon Jun 01 21:32:34 -0700 2009 4731940 11329 Bill Hunt 3 4734593 Depending on the chain, and the location, one can sample some very good fare. Yes, many of variables, but then the chef can often bring infulence from the "home country," and the food can be surprisingly good. Hunt Mon Jun 01 21:30:26 -0700 2009 4731696 11329 Bill Hunt 4 5146661 "and the food can be surprisingly good" ....even better if you work there and get to sample what the cooks make for themselves! I worked at a pancake house-type place and the chili sauce the line cooks made for themselves from guajillos, new mex, etc dried chiles was heaven! Sun Nov 01 08:10:37 -0800 2009 4734593 11234 toodie jane