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COTM: APRIL - HOPKINSON: CHICKEN & GAME BIRDS (Grouse, etc.)

oakjoan Apr 1, 2008 07:22 PM

I've combined chapters into categories, but I think all of the chapters are included.

Plz advise if there are errors.

Thanks and Appy Cooookeen!

Oakjoan

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  1. Gio RE: oakjoan Apr 3, 2008 06:07 AM

    Roast Chicken, page 28 (I think)

    Made this last night......It was a very simple recipe and I added the vegetables he advises at the bottom of the page. Basically it was butter rubbed all over the skin then squeezing a lemon over. The lemon halves go into the cavity after S & P and 1 clove of garlic. Roast at 450* for 15 minutes, baste, turn down the temp to 375 and roast for 30 - 45 minutes.

    I have been roasting chickens & vegetables for more years than I care to remember, and No Way is a 4 lb. chicken going to be done after 1 hour in my oven. Also, 1 clove of garlic is not enough to satisfy DH. We had to roast the chicken for an additional 30 minutes before it reached the 165* internal temp. When we finally sat down to dinner, some of the skin of the chicken was crispy but the meat was very bland. I had pre-seasoned the onions, leeks, mushrooms, etc. so they tasted fine. We weren't thrilled with this at all. Didn't dislike it, but if I do make it Mr. Hopkinson's style again I will definitely increase the seasoning.

    We have at least one chicken dinner a week, so I'm next going to try the vinegared chicken recipe.... Till then it's Piperade for tonight.

    5 Replies
    1. re: Gio
      MMRuth RE: Gio Apr 3, 2008 06:36 AM

      I hope the vinegared chicken turns out better. I did make his roast chicken, but all I posted was that it was good - can't remember if I tinkered at all. We do often cook even largish chickens in 50 minutes - but usually at higher temperatures (550, then 425). I don't think I cook them up to 165 though - I use the "clear juices"/wiggling the leg test.

      1. re: Gio
        The Dairy Queen RE: Gio Apr 3, 2008 06:36 AM

        Sorry the eponymous recipe did not work out for you. Can't wait to hear about the Piperade--I hope that's a winner for you

        ~TDQ

        1. re: Gio
          always_eating RE: Gio Nov 12, 2009 04:19 PM

          I have to agree with Gio's comments regarding the Roast Chicken recipe. I made it according to Simon's instructions and found that I definitely needed to roast the chicken a little longer and the skin just wasn't crispy enough to my liking. I thought maybe I hadn't basted enough (did it only once but Simon suggests once before turning down the temperature, and then "occasionally") but it doesn't seem like that was the reason. Also, was kind of flavourless too. I like my way of roasting chicken better but I am always curious to see other recipes since there are many many ways to roast a chicken!

          1. re: Gio
            Gio RE: Gio Nov 24, 2009 06:13 AM

            I guess I must be a glutton for punishment because I made this chicken again for Sunday dinner, and again with the veggies. And, again it was just as I reported last year. In fact we had to roast it much longer than the 15 min at 450 & 45 at 350. That's it. I'm done with this chicken recipe. This afternoon I'm going to boil the dickens out of it with some vegetables and use the stock for a potato, leek, and cabbage soup with ham hocks. So There....LOL

            1. re: Gio
              always_eating RE: Gio Nov 27, 2009 06:07 AM

              Haha - you are a masochist! Yes, pretty well decided that this is not a Roast Chicken recipe that I will use again. But hey, you'll have some (hopefully) fine chicken stock to use for other things!

          2. Gio RE: oakjoan Apr 3, 2008 06:48 AM

            Thank you MM and TDQ.... It's all good. Using other people's techniques and recommendations is a fine learning method. Usually, I do not r rub butter or for that matter, grease the skin of poultry with anything and the skin comes out nice and crispy.
            I purposely wanted to make this recipe in order to compare it to mine. LOL

            2 Replies
            1. re: Gio
              MMRuth RE: Gio Apr 3, 2008 06:49 AM

              Yes - I usually revert to my tried and true roast chicken recipe as well!

              1. re: MMRuth
                greedygirl RE: MMRuth Apr 3, 2008 07:06 AM

                Me too! Marcella Hazan does it for me every time.

            2. MMRuth RE: oakjoan Apr 6, 2008 04:26 AM

              Poulet Saute au Vinaigre, p. 32 - I mistakenly posted this on the meat thread - great dish that I'll make again:

              http://www.chowhound.com/topics/50516...

              Sorry about that ....

              3 Replies
              1. re: MMRuth
                NYchowcook RE: MMRuth Apr 6, 2008 06:10 AM

                I made Poulet Saute au Vinaigre last night.
                I only had boneless breasts (from a happy natural chicken), so I made sauce first with some butter and olive oil to start in pan w/ canned tomatoes (Muir Glen regular and some fire roasted), vinegar, homemade chicken stock and a bit of butter.
                While that cooked I separately sauteed then baked the breasts, put chicken in sauce, cooked a little and topped w/ parsley.

                It was very good and better than I expected since I saw Hoppy called for "best quality red wine vinegar" and I only had supermarket Regina. But it was fine. I expect it would be better when the sauce cooks w/ the chicken more.
                Served w/ egg noodles.
                I'll make this again.

                1. re: NYchowcook
                  Gio RE: NYchowcook Nov 2, 2009 05:30 AM

                  Poulet Sautee au Vinaigre, Pg. 32

                  I really, really wanted to love this, but, c'est la vie.... It was a very simple prep and cooking procedure:
                  A whole chicken cut into 8 pieces and seasoned with S & P, browned in butter and olive oil. When the chicken is golden brown 6 peeled, cored and chopped tomatoes are added and everything is fried, stirred and stewed until the tomatoes turn "dark red and sticky." Dark and Sticky. Never happened. But the stuff did reduce, somewhat, so then a cup of red wine vinegar is added and reduced, simmering, till almost gone. That did happen. The chicken is removed from the pan and a butter sauce with parsley is made with the remaining reduction. The chicken was very dry... even with the sauce...and this was a free range bird from the farm which we always buy and is invariably moist, tender and juicy. The sauce was tasty but lacked the oomph I thought it should have had. IF I ever do this again, I'll use balsamic instead of red wine vinegar...or at least mix the two. Also I think the tomatoes should be seasoned aggressively first and set aside till needed.

                  SH recommends serving this dish with plain boiled potatoes, but I steamed a beautiful farm fresh cauliflower and dressed it with grated fontina cheese and S & P. I also made his Grilled Eggplant with Pesto, pg. 78. These were great sides!

                  1. re: Gio
                    Gio RE: Gio Nov 2, 2009 04:40 PM

                    Poulet Sautee au Vinaigre Part Deux

                    Monday night is Pasta night here at Casa Gio and since we had several leftover pieces of the chicken from last night they were incorporated into a red sauce for Fusilli. May I just say that it was tres delicious.... a simple garlic, chopped shallots laden sautee, a tin of Pastene Kitchen Ready tomatoes, with added oregano & basil, crushed chili flakes and the chicken parts. Grated Romano on the serving plates... Perfect.

              2. MMRuth RE: oakjoan Apr 6, 2008 02:19 PM

                I've got this pheasant recipe in the oven as we speak - http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi...

                But I'm a little worried, as it calls for just 175 mil of liquid for braising - a tiny amount - there's barely 1/8 of an inch of liquid in the pan. The recipe in the link is the same one as in the book I have, but I'm still worried! Does anyone think I should add more liquid? It just went in the oven.

                28 Replies
                1. re: MMRuth
                  NYchowcook RE: MMRuth Apr 6, 2008 02:51 PM

                  I looked up Bittman and he says 2 c. stock for a 2-3 lb pheasant.
                  Also, he says the legs take alot longer to cook than the breasts, so when the breasts are done, you might want to cut off the legs and return to the pot.

                  1. re: NYchowcook
                    MMRuth RE: NYchowcook Apr 6, 2008 02:59 PM

                    Thanks.

                  2. re: MMRuth
                    greedygirl RE: MMRuth Apr 6, 2008 02:57 PM

                    I checked a few recipe books, and while some do call for a lot more liquid than that, the ever-reliable Delia Smith uses only 175 ml as well. If you use a cartouche, as he suggests, and a casserole with a well-fitting lid, it should be OK I would have thought.

                    1. re: greedygirl
                      MMRuth RE: greedygirl Apr 6, 2008 02:59 PM

                      Thanks so much - I did use the cartouche - so I'll keep my fingers crossed and report back!

                      1. re: MMRuth
                        MMRuth RE: MMRuth Apr 6, 2008 03:20 PM

                        It's been an hour (he says to cook for 1 to 1.5 hrs) - I took it out and there is plenty of liquid - a good inch now - I guess the cabbage released more and it's bubbling away. Decided to put back in the oven for another ten minutes.

                    2. re: MMRuth
                      MMRuth RE: MMRuth Apr 7, 2008 10:52 AM

                      Reporting back.

                      The liquid issue was fine, but I think I cooked it for too long - SH calls for 1 - 1.5 hours, and I did an hour and 10 minutes. The dark meat was good, as was the breast meat nearest the bone, but the outside part was tough as shoe leather. I've also not cooked or eaten pheasant before, so that colors my experience, I think. The flavor in the sauce was beautiful - he doesn't say what to do with it, so while I was carving the pheasant, my husband boiled it down a bit, and I threw in the boiled potatoes he recommends serving with it to capture some of the flavor. The cabbage was delicious. I want to do more reading up on cooking pheasant for next time. I noticed that he has a recipe for grouse soup, using the carcass, that is very similar to the one in the Second Helpings book for duck soup, which I love, so I'm going to make that w/ the pheasant carcass.

                      I had thought that I'd browned the pheasant nicely according to the instructions, turning, and even placing certain "unbrowned" parts of the breasts so that they would brown, but I think I'd brown longer next time.

                      Served it with a simple green salad, the Chocolate Bavarois for dessert, and the parmesan crackers to nibble on beforehand.

                      Edit - Any additional tips for future pheasant cooking would be appreciated. I was reluctant to cut up the bird this time to cook the legs longer.

                       
                       
                       
                      1. re: MMRuth
                        NYCkaren RE: MMRuth Apr 7, 2008 10:59 AM

                        It looks wonderful anyway! I am in awe of how many of the recipes you've made in the last few days. You are a busy bee.

                        1. re: NYCkaren
                          MMRuth RE: NYCkaren Apr 7, 2008 11:02 AM

                          Thanks - I get a bit obsessed! Tonight is Amatriciana though, no SH. I need to plot out my next campaign. I've vowed to make the Tripes a la Lyonnaise this next weekend!

                          1. re: MMRuth
                            NYCkaren RE: MMRuth Apr 7, 2008 11:42 AM

                            Good for you! Have you prepared tripe before? I haven't, and I've only eaten it a few times. Mainly menudo in Mexican restaurants, which I liked. Where will you get your tripe? I saw some that looked lovely the other day at Jeffrey's Meats in the Essex Street Market. Not that I really know what good tripe is supposed to look like.

                            1. re: NYCkaren
                              MMRuth RE: NYCkaren Apr 7, 2008 11:43 AM

                              I haven't - nor have I eaten it - but saw some beautiful tripe on Arthur Avenue last week (not that I know either, but the people I was with said it was!). My husband loves it.

                              1. re: MMRuth
                                oakjoan RE: MMRuth Apr 7, 2008 09:33 PM

                                I made the roasted chicken last Saturday night and found it to be really tasty, with moist meat and crispy skin. I cooked it for the amount of time he suggests, but it was a bit underdone, and so cooked for about 15 minutes more. Perfect. I am a poor soul who is burdened with an electric stove, but at least it's a new one.

                                I followed his recipe faithfully, butter rubbed over the skin of the chicken and inside the cavity. Lemon squeezed onto chicken and then put into the cavity with the herbs. I had nothing but some fabulously fresh oregano from my CSA box, so I used that. Very nice. It seemed to my husband and me that the chicken had really picked up the flavors of the herb/lemon/butter/garlic- it was really IN the meat. My favorite chicken recipes are Zuni and/or Jamie Oliver, but this one will take its place beside them.

                                I put some quartered red potatoes (also from CSA box) along with the garlic cloves in the pan with the chicken. Very nice.

                                With the bird we had sauteed asparagus (also from CSA) and a green salad (Full Belly Farm lettuce has been really amazing this spring - some I'd never seen before - a deeply purple lettuce that looks like a combo of radichio and floppy romaine, and sweet little green lettuces.

                                We also got some more leeks and I'm determined to try the Leek Tart again to see if the "dirt" taste comes back.

                                1. re: oakjoan
                                  The Dairy Queen RE: oakjoan Apr 8, 2008 04:27 AM

                                  Turning green with envy at multiple mentions of oakjoan's CSA box.

                                  Thanks for the chicken report. Pathetic, but true, our favorite chicken is a modified beer can chicken recipe, though we've long evolved from using a beer can to some special contraption. The skin doesn't turn out very nice, but the bird is fantastically moist every time. Can't seem to switch away from that, but know I should experiment with others.

                                  ~TDQ

                        2. re: MMRuth
                          greedygirl RE: MMRuth Apr 8, 2008 02:29 AM

                          I'd be tempted to say you should have cooked it for longer - slow is definitely the way to go with braised pheasant. I'm not an expert though - have only cooked pheasant a few times. Harters is probably your man.

                          1. re: greedygirl
                            MMRuth RE: greedygirl Apr 8, 2008 03:40 AM

                            Ah - that could make sense - hadn't thought of that way!

                            1. re: greedygirl
                              h
                              Harters RE: greedygirl Apr 9, 2008 10:24 AM

                              Harters may not be your man!

                              I also use the usually reliable Delia Smith (Brits will understand that her current TV programme makes me choke on using her name at present - as said by someone on e-gullet - "she's a witch, burn her".)

                              St Delia recommends same temperature, same amount of liquid, same cooking time as Hopkinson. The only possible difference is that she suggests cooking it first on one side, for 30 minutes, leg down, if you see what I mean. Then turn it over to the other leg for 30 minutes.

                              Makes for a nicely cooked breast. Legs are overcooked though - but there's not too much meat on them so I'm not really bothered. I regard them as "cook's treat" to pick at in the kitchen.

                              1. re: Harters
                                MMRuth RE: Harters Apr 9, 2008 10:26 AM

                                Yes, that makes sense - for a total cooking time of 1 hour? Does she brown it first?

                                1. re: MMRuth
                                  h
                                  Harters RE: MMRuth Apr 9, 2008 10:52 AM

                                  Yes, it's browned. Unusually for St Delia, she doesnt give an oven temperature (I usually cook it at 150C). And her timing is "1 hour, or so".

                                  1. re: Harters
                                    MMRuth RE: Harters Apr 9, 2008 10:54 AM

                                    OK - SH was at 140C (translated to 175F - 140 is actually slightly higher). I guess my question is - do you think the toughness of the outside of the breast is due to cooking too long, or too little?

                                    1. re: MMRuth
                                      h
                                      Harters RE: MMRuth Apr 9, 2008 12:27 PM

                                      I think the fact the meat near the bone was fine might mean overcooked. But then I'd have thought the legs would have been horribly overcooked - yet they weren't. You might just have a crappy old bird or something.

                                      1. re: Harters
                                        MMRuth RE: Harters Apr 9, 2008 12:29 PM

                                        That could be - it had a metal staple on it that said "NY DEC".

                                        1. re: MMRuth
                                          greedygirl RE: MMRuth Apr 9, 2008 12:38 PM

                                          Suggesting it had been frozen? Pheasant is way out of season at the moment.

                                          1. re: greedygirl
                                            MMRuth RE: greedygirl Apr 9, 2008 12:39 PM

                                            I think so - it was thawed when I bought it at the farmer's market - and did say it was free range etc.

                                            I'll have to try again in the fall, but I'm still going to make that grouse soup recipe with the carcass.

                                            1. re: MMRuth
                                              greedygirl RE: MMRuth Apr 9, 2008 12:49 PM

                                              Pheasant makes great soup, ime. Let us know how it turns out.

                                              And isn't all pheasant free-range!

                                              1. re: greedygirl
                                                MMRuth RE: greedygirl Apr 9, 2008 12:49 PM

                                                Ha ha - that's true!

                                                1. re: MMRuth
                                                  oakjoan RE: MMRuth Apr 9, 2008 01:58 PM

                                                  "Isn't all pheasant free-range?"

                                                  Yeah, now we'll have some post about the gigantic feedlots with millions of pheasants in small cages in Iowa or Kansas!

                                                  PS: Harters. What did "St. Delia" do, fgawdsake?

                                                  It's weird how we accept or reject tv chefs. The ones I like I'll forgive almost anything, the ones I hate...well, they stay hated.

                                                  Eg, I love the manic and overly cute Jamie Oliver and HATE Paula Dean. I can't bear to watch her and see her as a complete phony. Double standard? Of course!

                                                  1. re: oakjoan
                                                    h
                                                    Harters RE: oakjoan Apr 9, 2008 02:50 PM

                                                    Delia Smith has been teaching Brits to cook "proper food" for 30+ years. So much so, that "Delia" now appears in the dictionary as in "to do a Delia" or to describe a recipe simply as "it's one of Delia's'".

                                                    You'll see from this link to Media that the "taste and decency" rules of a moderated board have prevented me and others from, erm, fully expressing ourselves.
                                                    http://www.chowhound.com/topics/497992

                                                    1. re: oakjoan
                                                      m
                                                      mgebs RE: oakjoan Apr 9, 2008 03:17 PM

                                                      Actually, my husband "hunts" at a local hunt club here in Michigan occasionally and they raise their pheasants in pens. When they set them out in the fields, they hardly move and don't fly very far.That way the "hunters" can shoot them easier. He much prefers hunting wild grouse in the woods up north.

                              2. re: MMRuth
                                The Dairy Queen RE: MMRuth Apr 8, 2008 04:31 AM

                                Interesting, thank you for the report. I've always been fascinated with pheasants.

                                ~TDQ

                            2. greedygirl RE: oakjoan Apr 13, 2008 12:06 PM

                              Poulet saute au vinaigre

                              Like everyone else who's made this, I was pleased with this dish. The sauce was sensational, but I think I may have overcooked the chicken slightly. I used a French Poulet de Bresse, which may have been a bit more robust than a regular chicken. I may also be overcritical - my guests loved it and mopped up every last bit of the sauce.

                              I didn't want to use my best wine vinegar (Forum - costs a fortune), so used some red balsamic that I had as I'd run out of regular red wine vinegar. Turned out pretty well.

                              1. Carb Lover RE: oakjoan Apr 16, 2008 08:58 AM

                                Roast Chicken, p. 28

                                Well, the first recipe I had to try was the roast chicken! Overall, Hopkinson's version was delicious, flavorful, and moist for me. I will definitely add this to my roast chicken repertoire among the Zuni and Marcella methods. I will use this method when I want a sauce and the nutty richness of butter.

                                I couldn't fathom using a whole stick of butter so I used half a stick (2 oz. of Plugra) instead which was plenty IMO. I also pre-seasoned the bird w/ S&P a day ahead. My 4 lb. bird was done (based on the shaking leg method) in about 65 min. I roasted in a shallow sheet pan and roasted my veggies in a separate pan. The best technique/tip that I picked up from this recipe was his suggestion to carve the bird directly in the roasting pan and collect all the juices for the sauce. The sauce was really delicious w/ the aromatics, chicken juices, and butter all mingling. While the skin puffed up and browned beautifully, it was not crispy like Zuni but had a wonderful nutty flavor from the butter.

                                 
                                 
                                6 Replies
                                1. re: Carb Lover
                                  MMRuth RE: Carb Lover Apr 16, 2008 09:01 AM

                                  Those pictures really capture the "moist" chicken. I think I did use the whole stick of butter! Unfortunately, I made it back in November, and just can't remember if the skin was crispy or not - maybe I'll try this again tonight.

                                  1. re: MMRuth
                                    Carb Lover RE: MMRuth Apr 16, 2008 09:11 AM

                                    Please do try it again soon! My experience is that while butter adds a wonderful flavor, keeps the bird moist, and enhances the golden color, it can almost steam the skin, leaving it limp and/or leathery. While the top got really brown, the underside was fairly pale (as you can see from the thigh pieces). Zuni gives the crispiest skin, but this method resulted in a bird that was more moist and juicy. And the skin was still pretty darn tasty...

                                  2. re: Carb Lover
                                    MMRuth RE: Carb Lover Apr 17, 2008 10:55 AM

                                    Well, you inspired me to make it again last night. I too had a v. difficult time (manually) putting a whole stick of butter on my chicken, though it wasn't quite at room temperature. So, with some effort, I also applied half a stick. I stuffed it with the squeezed lemon halves, garlic and some thyme and tarragon. I cooked the 4.33 pound Bell & Evans chicken for 15 on the high temperature, then 40 at the lower, and 10 minutes "resting" in the turned off oven. I also checked for "doneness" using the wiggle method. I agree with you, the meat was incredibly moist, and I could taste the lemon and herbs, but the skin, though puffed up and crispy when I checked it before resting, was of less than ideal crispiness at serving time. The breast meat really had a wonderful consistency. I served it with some sauteed cabbage/bacon/red onion/time and a plum chutney that a friend of mine makes.

                                    Edit: I think the black spots on the chicken come from the not, um, perfectly scoured cazuela I used to roast this in. And the jus was delicious.

                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    1. re: MMRuth
                                      Carb Lover RE: MMRuth Apr 17, 2008 06:15 PM

                                      Mouthwatering photos, MMRuth! Sounds like we had similar results. The breast meat was indeed remarkable--the best of all of my roasting methods. And ahhh, that sauce! I'm ready to make it again, although I should try the chicken w/ vinegar next...

                                      1. re: Carb Lover
                                        greedygirl RE: Carb Lover Apr 18, 2008 02:15 AM

                                        The chicken with vinegar is gorgeous!

                                        1. re: greedygirl
                                          MMRuth RE: greedygirl Apr 18, 2008 03:52 AM

                                          Yes, I agree - Carb Lover, do dry the vinegar one.

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