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Charcuterie?

j
jewels_vancouver Mar 29, 2008 10:50 PM

is it pronounced shar-shoo-terie or shar-koo-terier or shar-chew-terie?

  1. d
    Docsknotinn Mar 30, 2008 02:44 AM

    middle choice.

    5 Replies
    1. re: Docsknotinn
      m
      moh Mar 30, 2008 07:20 AM

      "shar-koo-terier"

      Agree that the middle choice is the closest, but would take off the last "r"

      "shar-koo-terie" or "shar-koo-tuh-rie"

      1. re: moh
        MMRuth Mar 30, 2008 07:26 AM

        I'd go with "shar-ku-tuh-ree" - I don't know that we have the equivalent "ku" sound in English though.

        1. re: MMRuth
          d
          Docsknotinn Mar 30, 2008 07:34 AM

          That looks better.
          :)

          1. re: MMRuth
            m
            moh Mar 30, 2008 07:51 AM

            "I don't know that we have the equivalent "ku" sound in English though."

            The closest equivalent that I can think of is the word "queue" but even that isn't quite right. It's like trying to say "ee" and "oo" at the same time.

            1. re: moh
              m
              miss_bennet Mar 30, 2008 11:07 AM

              Queue is a dipthong, and the French "u" is not. But ee and OO! That's exactly it!

              To make the French "u:"
              1. Form lips in "oo" shape (like you're going to whistle)
              2. Say ee (as in the word bee) while keeping lips in "oo" shape.

              That should pretty much result in the right sound. But it would sound ridiculous to use the actual French "u" sound WITHOUT a flipped "r." The Merriam Webster pronounciation is probably the best we'll find, but it is heavily anglisized.

              Ye gods is it hard to teach pronounciation through writing! I tried to spell out how I think the French would pronounce it, and I just can't! I could pronounce it for you, though! (I went through primary grades in French, and a portion of my schooling thereafter was also in French.)

      2. s
        smartie Mar 30, 2008 08:55 AM

        it is shar - koo- tuhree with the emphasis on the koo as the French would pronounce it.

        the koo is not pronounced like queue but like the sound of a pigeon coo.

        10 Replies
        1. re: smartie
          s
          smartie Mar 30, 2008 08:56 AM

          and the r has a slight roll.

          1. re: smartie
            m
            moh Mar 30, 2008 09:18 AM

            Hmm are you sure about the "coo" sound? That sounds like an anglicization of the French pronunciation.

            Listen, I'll try posting a note on the Quebec Board with a link, maybe some of the other Francophones can chime in (as I don't know if you are a francophone, Smartie, and I don't want to make an assumption. I am certainly not francophone, so I wold defer to those who are.)

            Maybe CH should put an audio link onto their posts!

            (Shar - koo - tuhree. SHAR-koo-tuhree. Shar - koo- TER -ree? :)

            1. re: moh
              kpzoo Mar 30, 2008 09:28 AM

              Isn't the accent always on the last syllable in French?

              Anyway, this is kinda how I'd pronounce it (as a bilingual anglo in Québec):

              shar-ku-TREE

              Only three syllables. I'm not familiar with the "real" notation for indicating pronunciation, so of course this is just an approximation. I've seen a French pronunciation guide somewhere that has audio files, I'll try to find it!

              EDIT: Found this .wav but they put the accent on the middle syllable
              http://french.about.com/library/media...

              1. re: kpzoo
                carswell Mar 30, 2008 10:04 AM

                Three syllables is how I hear and pronounce it in French. This is confirmed by the Petit Robert (can't paste the pronunciation here because International Phonetic Alphabet characters show up as garbage): shar-ku-tree. Of course the vowels aren't diphthongized and the r is guttural.

                Which syllable to stress? Simplifying here a bit but in French the tonic accent falls on the last syllable of a "cell" or rhythmic/syntactic group. In individual words, it is for all intents and purposes nonexistent except when the words are spoken in isolation. So, in "charcuterie" on its own, the last syllable would be stressed. In other contexts, it's quite possible that no syllable would be.
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_(linguistics)
                http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accent_t...

                1. re: carswell
                  Will Owen Apr 17, 2008 06:10 PM

                  My wife, whose first language was French, approves of my calling it "shar-koo-t'REE" (briefest hiatus between the T and the R, just enough to get your mouth parts into position to pronounce the R correctly). I must be saying it right, because she keeps buying me cookbooks on the subject...

              2. re: moh
                s
                smartie Mar 30, 2008 10:17 AM

                moh I am a Londoner, but my French teacher at school was a Parisienne and she was darned strict on pronunciation and inflection. Even so, it's been 35 years since I learnt French at school!

                Montreal French and Parisian French are quite different, comparable to Home Counties English (my accent - posh London and surrounds) and say Texan English.

                1. re: smartie
                  kpzoo Mar 30, 2008 10:34 AM

                  > Montreal French and Parisian French are quite different

                  Indeed! However, I would venture to say that "charcuterie" is not one of the words that's pronounced that differently in Quebec & France. :-)

                  1. re: smartie
                    m
                    moh Mar 30, 2008 10:36 AM

                    Yes, excellent point! I guess I was just wondering if the "eu" sound (at least, what I had been taught as the french pronunciation of the letter "u") would be used, instead of a softer rounder "oo" sound that I associate with "coo" as in the sound of a dove. Certainly, the sound may be softer in a Parisien's accent.

                    I certainly remember the differences between a posh London accent and a Lancashire accent (spent a year up in Blackburn, if you can believe it!) and of course, the distinctive Glaswegian accent. Language is a wonderful thing!

                    1. re: smartie
                      a
                      aelph Mar 30, 2008 10:59 AM

                      I speak "Texan English," I suppose (being a Texan and an English-speaker) and I pronounce it

                      shar <coo> ter ie

                    2. re: moh
                      carswell Mar 30, 2008 10:37 AM

                      As per the Robert, among others, the u is the classic French u as pronounced in *rue* and *vêtu*.

                  2. carswell Mar 30, 2008 09:28 AM

                    In American English, \(ˌ)shär-ˌkü-tə-ˈrē\. You can hear an audio clip at www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ch...

                    1. m
                      Mr F Mar 30, 2008 10:59 AM

                      According to the Shorter OED, English pronunciation is shar-KOO-terie.

                      As many have said, the French u sound in charcuterie has no direct equivalent in English. It's commonly rendered as an "oo" by English-speakers, but that's one of the stereotypical markers of an English-speaker's accent as heard by French-speakers on either side of the Atlantic.

                      5 Replies
                      1. re: Mr F
                        v
                        Venusia Mar 30, 2008 01:43 PM

                        Agreed. In French, emphasis is on last syllable, but if speaking English, keep the accent on the second syllable, and pronounce all four of them. I think the OP was confused about the pronunciation of the C, which has a hard sound before a U in French. Using CH or SH for C only occurs in Italian.

                        1. re: Venusia
                          j
                          jewels_vancouver Mar 30, 2008 05:01 PM

                          Hmmm, interesting...and since I am Italian that is probably why I have been pronouncing it shar-shoe-ter-ee. Now I know, thank you!

                          1. re: jewels_vancouver
                            r
                            rcianci Mar 31, 2008 07:40 PM

                            I am an Italian-American and I pronounce it "pork store".

                        2. re: Mr F
                          p
                          Paulbx Jan 3, 2013 05:52 PM

                          Charcuterie seems to popular in Scottsdale at the moment...

                          I was wondering, however, whether 'tis true there is no "u" sound in English like that in French. What about the "u" in the word "cute" ? Maybe not exact but closer?

                          1. re: Paulbx
                            Will Owen Jan 6, 2013 08:43 PM

                            "Oo" closer to "roof" than "toot." I don't speak French, really, but I married into a pack of French people and American Francophones, so while I have a hard time constructing a sentence I can pronounce individual words pretty well. So: shar-COO-t'r-EE, the R of course being halfway swallowed in that charming French manner. And if you can't flatten the "COO" part that's okay, because they'll understand you anyway. There's almost certainly a region in France where they pronounce it exactly like that.

                        3. r
                          riboflavinjoe Mar 30, 2008 02:44 PM

                          http://picasaweb.google.com/josephpau...

                          1 Reply
                          1. re: riboflavinjoe
                            m
                            miss_bennet Mar 30, 2008 03:34 PM

                            (I think that if someone can read IPA, they can pronounce foreign words without much problem. That said, it's nice to see both the three and four syllable versions. I prefer four myself.)

                          2. superbossmom Mar 31, 2008 02:43 AM

                            shar-ku-tree , in 3 sounds; even in France , they vocally skip the "e" in terie, so it's trie (tree)

                            3 Replies
                            1. re: superbossmom
                              rillettes Mar 31, 2008 06:03 AM

                              Yup, I agree with the mom

                              1. re: rillettes
                                sunshine842 Jan 4, 2013 01:34 AM

                                me, too.

                              2. re: superbossmom
                                b
                                barndog Apr 2, 2008 09:34 PM

                                I also agree. I remember working in a hotel where a French couple asked me where they could find a good charcuterie store, and for the life of me I couldn't understand them, because they pronounced it <shar-ku-tree>, but they said it so fast I couldn't get it until the third time.

                              3. m
                                mcLo Mar 31, 2008 08:59 AM

                                I am a francophone and I would say it is simply
                                shahr-kü-tree

                                the French u sound just does not exist in English. But the closest would be the ewwwwwww that teenage girls pronounce when they find something like, so totally gross.

                                1 Reply
                                1. re: mcLo
                                  r
                                  riboflavinjoe Mar 31, 2008 02:35 PM

                                  Produce the vowel in /tri:/ "tree" but round your lips as you produce the vowel. This vowel is represented in the International Phonetic Alphabet by this symbol: /y/.

                                2. e
                                  edhazer Apr 16, 2008 05:20 AM

                                  mcLo's answer is both correct and amusing.
                                  Thanks.

                                  1. a
                                    audone Apr 17, 2012 08:41 AM

                                    Char-coot! That's it! Soft "ch"-- like "Cher!" Not as in "charbroiled."

                                    1. l
                                      LN2008 Apr 17, 2012 01:03 PM

                                      I would say it.s share-koo-chh-air-ee. Flatten the chair out to a subtle roll and the koo should be said like a small ooo.

                                      2 Replies
                                      1. re: LN2008
                                        mariacarmen Apr 17, 2012 01:25 PM

                                        it's definitely not "share" and what are you saying is the chh sound, the "t"??

                                        mcLo, above, is right - it's shahr-kü-tree.

                                        1. re: LN2008
                                          sunshine842 Jan 4, 2013 01:33 AM

                                          not even remotely close to being correct; sorry.

                                          Shar-ku-tree -- that's how they say it in france.

                                        2. q
                                          Querencia Apr 17, 2012 04:08 PM

                                          Shar kew ter EE.

                                          1 Reply
                                          1. re: Querencia
                                            b
                                            bob96 Apr 17, 2012 06:34 PM

                                            I pronounce it "salumi." :)

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