503470 Thu Mar 27 16:41:35 -0700 2008 122 29 Not About Food 0 3534871 This has been bugging me for a while. I like to cook (obviously), and to talk (lol) and so we entertain quite a bit. I always make an effort when people come over - usually three courses, good wine, aperitifs etc and we always have a nice time. But... a lot of the time, we don't get invited back. Mr GG says it's because people are intimidated because I'm a good cook, but to be honest I don't care if they serve me beans on toast! I'd just like to be a guest, every once in a while... So, is he right, or are my friends trying to tell me something! Thu Mar 27 16:41:35 -0700 2008 110146 greedygirl 1 3534907 You think you have it bad -- I write a food column for the local paper, and we are NEVER invited anywhere. We host dinner parties, and no one reciprocates. Where I come from, this is extremely bad manners! My bottom line is: If someone cooks you a meal, you do the same. You don't have to get pricey or fancy, just expend some energy. Thu Mar 27 16:52:20 -0700 2008 3534871 11995 pikawicca 2 3534966 Do they think they might become the subjects of your next column or something! Glad to hear I'm not alone... The funny thing is that when we do get invited somewhere, it's Mr GG who's the harshest critic (in private, obviously!). He says he's been spoilt by several years of good eating. Thu Mar 27 17:14:45 -0700 2008 3534907 110146 greedygirl 3 3537984 Not trying to be mean at all, but you said "Mr GG says it's because people are intimidated because I'm a good cook, but to be honest I don't care if they serve me beans on toast!" and then said "it's Mr GG who's the harshest critic (in private, obviously!)" I'm not an great cook and I don't think I would be comfortable inviting you over for dinner, if I thought you might criticize what I cooked. Even if it's not in front of me. Fri Mar 28 13:11:36 -0700 2008 3534966 13345 Boychucker 4 3538194 It's not me doing the criticising though! I'm just happy to be invited. Anyway, it's only natural to discuss a meal when you get home, no? (As well as the conversation and the great time you had). Fri Mar 28 13:51:39 -0700 2008 3537984 110146 greedygirl 5 3538212 I know. I think most people discuss the meal and party on their way home. I just think it's possible that some of your friends may be worried that they may not live up to certain standards. I guess I'm just trying to say they may be intimidated. :) I think that's one of the reasons I don't invite people over, but I guess I should get over that. :) Fri Mar 28 13:55:18 -0700 2008 3538194 13345 Boychucker 1 3535096 I think your husband may be right, they may be intimidated by the idea of preparing the kind of meal you provide. They don't know that you'd be happy with beans on toast. And even if you are comfortable eating this kind of meal, they wouldn't necessarily be comfortable serving you a simple meal knowing that you always provide fancy fare. Also, some people just aren't into entertaining...it's just not their thing. Another possibility is that they don't feel that they have a good space for entertaining, if your home is larger or nicer. I wouldn't take it personally. Thu Mar 27 18:01:34 -0700 2008 3534871 13875 Nicole 1 3535156 Oh, I truly believe that while they are appreciative, they are intimidated. I have managed to do this in my own circle, and now seem only get invited to tailgate parties where the men do the cooking on a grill! Some of the women don't cook frequently, and have admitted that they are intimidated no matter how much I try to encourage them. I don't let it bother me because we get to eat out at restaurants with them instead. You need to realize that cooking is your special talent and that while you are choosing to share it, not everyone is going to be able to reciprocate in the same way. Just enjoy what you can with your friends -- that is the most important thing. Thu Mar 27 18:18:07 -0700 2008 3534871 87837 RGC1982 1 3535467 When I was in law school I found out that I lived in the same city as a high school friend who had become an up-and-coming and renowned chef. She invited me to a dinner, which was simple but very fun and impressive. So naturally I reciprocated. When I called, she accepted and laughingly mentioned that I was the first person to invite her to dinner since a very famous goddess of food. Well, that was all I needed to start trying too hard -- for example, I bought more expensive steak for a marinated, grilled starter than the chuck I usually used, so it came out mushy. But most of the dishes were tasty, the wine was good, and she was a gracious and appreciative guest. Now, obviously I don't know what her comments were on the ride home with her boyfriend! Thu Mar 27 20:11:59 -0700 2008 3534871 10855 nosh 1 3535575 Mr GG might be right but dont let that all bother you. Next time you have a dinner, have a cookout and then talk about maybe how you dropped something or burned something. They might be intimidated that you are a good cook and they have so many problems with just something easy. If they know that you have troubles cooking to then they may mellow out. They dont need to know that you dont have that many troubles. I just got invited to my son & daughter in laws house after a yr of marriage and she made something that is my sons fav and she called me on it to see how it was done and then had me come over. not bad. you might also want to have a cooking party sometime to and have the friends over and just make simple things that the other people might not have trouble making and then maybe that will inspire them to have you over and they may do the same thing. Thu Mar 27 21:00:55 -0700 2008 3534871 178062 thecountryrose 2 3535627 Forgive my ignorance, but what's a cookout? Thu Mar 27 21:29:25 -0700 2008 3535575 110146 greedygirl 3 3535785 At a cook out, you cook on a grill. At least the meat, and sometimes the veggies. It is casual, and wonderful food. Thu Mar 27 23:31:22 -0700 2008 3535627 10921 Janet 1 3535631 No- I can honestly say that I have cooked for each and every one of my friends more than they have cooked for me. To be fair, I probably cook more often than they do, and my cooking repertoire is most likely broader than theirs. So I don't really expect to be invited to a home-cooked meal, nor am I offended when it doesn't happen. However, to me the principle is not about "cooking" dinner as much as it is about "hosting" it, and it would be nice to be invited even for a casual meal of appetizers, or perhaps a buffet of takeout :) FWIW, I recently had this same conversation with my mom, who loves to cook, and hosts the two biggest family dinners of the year (Christmas and Easter) *every year*. There are several relatives of ours who attend holiday after holiday (and seem to have a great time) who have haven't invited her to their home in ten years or more (if ever)! And yes, these people do entertain at their homes. With regard to your situation, I bet that at least some of your friends feel that inviting you over for dinner would be less enjoyable for you because (in their opinion) their food might not "measure up". As for what you can do about it... I really don't see how there is much. I suppose you could refrain from inviting them to your house and wait and see if they take the initiative and host a get-together, themselves. But the risks involved in that are fairly predictable, and, arguably, hardly worth a valued friendship. In any case, it is improper and inconsiderate to repeatedly receive and accept invitations to dinner without extending yourself in return, and your reaction is totally understandable . Thu Mar 27 21:33:42 -0700 2008 3534871 102095 vvvindaloo 1 3535852 NOBODY has people over for dinner these days it seems, in the last 10 years, we only do a few each year, but I can count on slightly more than one hand the times we've been to others. and that includes cocktail parties with elaborate nibbles. so many people just don't cook. or need help reheating leftovers or just don't have the facilities to even do much more than re-heat. oddly these are the same ones who neglect to invite one for just lunch... don't take it personally or do serve beans on toast next time maybe not straight out of the can. no that would prob. backfire, the die has been cast - you are in the role of hostess. see yourself as a nexus and run with that, going more casual and inviting more people would be your best bet IMHO. still does sorta sting. Fri Mar 28 01:20:54 -0700 2008 3534871 163722 hill food 1 3535944 Really, I wouldnt worry about it. Your friends just might feel intimidated that you cook up lovely dinner parties and maybe they cant afford to have the good wine, aperitifs, etc. They may feel that they can not compete with you. They may not realize too that they should be hosting parties and inviting you to them also. Not alot of people do dinner parties that much anymore. It was more thought of back in the 50's *& 60's. Just do what you like to do and keep on serving your good food. Be thankful that you have friends that really like your cooking and keep coming back to your home. That should say alot about you as a person. Fri Mar 28 04:22:12 -0700 2008 3534871 178062 thecountryrose 1 3536007 We have people over several times a month. During March Madness, we've had people over several times a week. Last weekend I made a fabulous baked ziti one night and chicken quesadillas the other. Tonight we are picking up a bunch of Chinese take out. Tomorrow night Dh is making ribs, I am making mac and cheese and I'm picking up roasted chicken and beans from a a local Mexican place. Rarely does anyone reciprocate. And it's not about cooking or money (as far as the ability to afford), but it seems we've gotten in the habit of being "host" and it's come to be expected. Fri Mar 28 05:14:39 -0700 2008 3534871 11990 Janet from Richmond 2 3537085 I think this is the position we're in too. We always have people over at Christmas-time but I've never, ever been invited to someone else's at that time of the year. I do enjoy it, but there was one Christmas when I only had a couple of days off work and was running around like a mad thing and getting quite stressed, and I did think it would have been nice not to be doing the work for a change! Fri Mar 28 10:02:02 -0700 2008 3536007 110146 greedygirl 3 3537139 I have been hosting every holiday meal since 1986. I would love to go "elsewhere"' for Thanksgiving or Christmas. Fri Mar 28 10:13:33 -0700 2008 3537085 11990 Janet from Richmond 2 3575821 Janet, what is this March Madness of which you speak? From your description, it sounds like a heavenly marathon of food :-). Tue Apr 08 22:23:16 -0700 2008 3536007 169233 grayelf 3 3576087 March Madness is the term coined in reference to the NCAA basketball tournament games throughout March :-) This weekend the festivities will be in celebration of The Masters Golf Tournament :-) Wed Apr 09 04:54:16 -0700 2008 3575821 11990 Janet from Richmond 4 3579705 Now the Masters I know about :-). Thanks for the info. Wed Apr 09 22:07:33 -0700 2008 3576087 169233 grayelf 1 3536147 We host a lot of dinners at home, because we enjoy cooking and we have an overly full wine fridge that needs culling. Like others on this thread, we invite more than get invited. I could see how this could bug people. We host people because we like their company, and we want to show we care. We are not bad at hosting, and try to make it a special event for all involved. We don't worry about whether we get invites back, because I firmly believe it all works out in the end. It might not come in the form of an invitation for dinner at the other person's house, but it comes back in many other ways. I've have had some medical issues in the last year, and it has been harder for us to entertain. We don't have the energy, and we have to be careful about finances. We still don't get invited very often to other's houses, and that is fine, because, we are often a bit too tired for going out a lot. But now people are coming over, we are still hosting, but they are cooking at our place for us, or they are bringing food they've cooked, and if they can't cook, they are bringing us our favorite takeout. And they are cleaning up after, and keeping us company, and making us laugh. When we feel up to it, we are being taken out for food or coffee or whatever works. We feel very lucky to be surrounded by such wonderful people. Like I said, it all comes back! That, or we have been very fortunate in choosing our friends. Fri Mar 28 06:26:07 -0700 2008 3534871 89969 moh 2 3537003 Agree with you. It will work out in the end. Fri Mar 28 09:45:43 -0700 2008 3536147 178062 thecountryrose 2 3537092 That's really nice moh. I guess generosity really is its own reward! I hope you feel better soon. Fri Mar 28 10:03:19 -0700 2008 3536147 110146 greedygirl 3 3538343 Thanks very much Greedygirl, I'm definitely seeing the light at the end of the tunnel! And I can tell you, I appreciate these special people even more than I did before! Plus I have a lot of time to play on Chowhound :) Fri Mar 28 14:20:42 -0700 2008 3537092 89969 moh 4 3541060 Glad things are getting better. This image must be for you: as I read your entry and as I'm writing this, two beautiful brown doves landed on the balcony wall and are now sitting one against the other, looking down at the city below. Sat Mar 29 14:16:04 -0700 2008 3538343 36661 Sam Fujisaka 5 3541107 And the doves are cooing: "look at that place, I bet they make delicious food...Shall we go?" :) Thank you for a lovely image Sam! Sat Mar 29 14:33:01 -0700 2008 3541060 89969 moh 2 3537242 Treasure those friends! How wonderful that they're taking care of you in so many ways other than having you over for dinner. Sometimes when you are going through hard times (medical, financial, whatever) you find out who your real friends are! The thought of someone bringing you your favorite take-out meal, and then cleaning up afterwards has me smiling for you! Fri Mar 28 10:33:48 -0700 2008 3536147 143696 Catskillgirl 2 3538606 Oh, moh, bless your heart and may you have a full recovery! And thank you for taking the time to share your great knowledge with us. If you're not giving one way, you're giving another. And it is much appreciated. Thank you! Fri Mar 28 15:36:10 -0700 2008 3536147 112096 Caroline1 1 3536256 Maybe your friends are just lazy? Fri Mar 28 06:59:45 -0700 2008 3534871 12630 beevod 1 3536352 I think there could be lots of reasons your friends don't invite you. I know it's the same for me, and some friends aren't into entertaining, some have tiny apartments, some don't cook.... But some time ago, I forced myself to stop expecting it, and I'm much happier. I used to get annoyed, but now, I only invite people I truly want to spend time with, and I only spend as much time cooking / prepping as I want to, and it all works out and everyone's happy. If I get an invite back, I just consider it a plus now! Fri Mar 28 07:21:33 -0700 2008 3534871 19900 jenhen2 2 3536377 In this case, one couple is lazy and cheap (but very wealthy) and have a brand new home. Another couple is lazy but not cheap and have a seven-figure home with an impressive kitchen and they always bring some nice wine, will pick up the tab when we go out, etc. And they are easy to get along with as far as what to serve, how to serve it, etc. There is one couple who always shows up empty handed and are picky eaters and you have to hide the "special" red wine from <g> Fri Mar 28 07:26:37 -0700 2008 3536352 11990 Janet from Richmond 3 3537098 Blimey - that's very rude (the picky, empty-handed ones!). I don't blame you for hiding the nice wine. At least my friends always bring good things to drink, and sometimes I get flowers, too! Fri Mar 28 10:05:16 -0700 2008 3536377 110146 greedygirl 3 3539810 Well, if that's the case, I wouldn't be inviting them back. In my opinion, life's too short to spend another night with "friends" you have to hide your good wone from.... Sat Mar 29 04:30:21 -0700 2008 3536377 19900 jenhen2 3 3539850 So why do you keep inviting the lazy, cheap, but wealthy couple? Do you think they mention you in their will? Seriously, you need to ask yourself why you (and apparently others) keep inviting them. You can't answer or act for others, but you can ask yourself whether this couple has some redeeming quality that keeps you asking them back. And please recognize that, "Because everyone else does," is not an acceptable answer! If they have no redeeming qualities that keep YOU asking them back, then I have to assume you are still in charge of who gets invited to your house? It may be time for some changes. And if you do make changes, do it without guilt. absolutely no reason for you to feel guilty. Sat Mar 29 05:17:57 -0700 2008 3536377 112096 Caroline1 4 3539856 Because they are our friends. I don't have any desire to end the friendship, and there are other aspects in which they are generous in spirit and deed, but entertaining isn't one of them. They aren't bad, evil people....they are just without social graces in some aspects. And yes, I am in charge of my home and do not invite them out of guilt or obligation. I'm not big into guilt in general (which is why my MIL is not longer included in holiday dinners, but that's another thread for another day). Sat Mar 29 05:35:03 -0700 2008 3539850 11990 Janet from Richmond 5 3540190 ....they are just without social graces in some aspects exactly! Sat Mar 29 08:30:25 -0700 2008 3539856 42789 doberlady 1 3536652 Now that I think about it, no, we don't get invited out that often. We have a very small house (with toys all over the place), and sometimes, at the end of a long work week, we just order take out and serve wine and beer, so I don't think it's that people feel intimidated about the food, or worried about the adequacy of their living space. I just think they're lazy and/or cheap and/or rude. Fri Mar 28 08:30:03 -0700 2008 3534871 125234 foodiemommy 1 3537019 Do you know if these people are entertaining others, just not you? I've found that many people don't do the dinner party thing much any more. (Not on these boards obviously ; ) So don't jump to the exclusion conclusion... they may not be having ANYONE over. Fri Mar 28 09:49:17 -0700 2008 3534871 28006 Jennalynn 2 3537105 I think that's probably true. I am obviously a freak living in a seventies time warp! (Actually, I have a book called the Prawn Cocktail Years which has a ton of "retro" recipes - it's fun sometimes to go down the prawn cocktail/boeuf bourgignon/black forest gateau route.) Fri Mar 28 10:07:15 -0700 2008 3537019 110146 greedygirl 2 3537129 In our case, they aren't entertaining anyone else either. There was one couple who years ago we always invited because they were very good friends of another couple and after spending several Saturday nights partying at our house they had a Super Bowl party and did not invite us...I was beyond pissed and promptly took them off the party list. Fri Mar 28 10:11:42 -0700 2008 3537019 11990 Janet from Richmond 3 3537261 I don't blame you. How rude! Fri Mar 28 10:36:56 -0700 2008 3537129 110146 greedygirl 1 3537084 I had two different friends who loved to cook and invite me to dinner. They thought they were better cooks than I think they were but I didn't care. I enjoyed the company and sitting around eating and chatting with friends. Whenever I reciprocated, I'm sorry to say neither one was very gracious about my cooking. One gave me a look of pity and said it was the thought that counted. Another picked and picked and ate but didn't seem to enjoy it. Now, I'm a decent cook of the meat & potatoes/comfort food variety. One time I served fried chicken and another time chili dogs. Neither were fancy enough for these friends and they couldn't get in the spirit of basic food served with good sides and good beer. I even offered to make the "not into chili dogs" friend an omelette or something to which she declined. Did I ever invite them over again? Nope. Did I go to their homes for dinner again? I tapered off accepting the invites. So, while I'm sure the OP and others here are delighted to be invited out and very gracious guests; it isn't always the case. My particular pet peeve is when guests come for dinner and announce they've recently gone vegetarian or aren't eating dairy, don't you know. Fri Mar 28 10:02:02 -0700 2008 3534871 15131 three of us 2 3537134 I love chili dogs. And if I'm lucky enough to be invited somewhere else for dinner or a party, I do my best to be a gracious guest. Fri Mar 28 10:12:38 -0700 2008 3537084 11990 Janet from Richmond 3 3537281 Quite. I have to say, this thread is making me feel loads better about my invitation drought! Fri Mar 28 10:42:23 -0700 2008 3537134 110146 greedygirl 4 3538059 And it's making me feel great about my group of friends! No friend of mine would ever pick at their dinner or make backhanded remarks. Only relatives do that around here ; ) Fri Mar 28 13:26:57 -0700 2008 3537281 28006 Jennalynn 2 3537460 That's my peeve too. We invited some people over for this weekend and were very specific and clear about the menu. They accepted, and then yesterday emailed us out of the blue to say that the wife is allergic to the main menu item. Grrrrr. Fri Mar 28 11:24:06 -0700 2008 3537084 125234 foodiemommy 3 3537626 I once invited someone to dinner who sent me a message on the morning of the day itself with a long list of things he wouldn't/didn't eat. V. annoying. Fri Mar 28 11:52:52 -0700 2008 3537460 110146 greedygirl 4 3537659 The morning of? My goodness. I always ask people ahead of time if they have any dietary constraints, and I guess if it was an awfully long list, I wouldn't mind getting it in writing, but the morning of - I'd be annoyed too! Fri Mar 28 11:59:18 -0700 2008 3537626 10985 MMRuth 4 3537979 That's annoying coming the day of the party. From experience, you can cut off this kind of unpleasant surprise by asking your guests pretty early on (i.e., when they accept the invitation) what their food preferences are, so you can plan accordingly. Whenever someone who I haven't hosted before accepts a dinner invitation, I always ask when they accept what their food preferences and allergies are. We have a lot of dinner parties so I keep a dinner party notebook to prevent repeat dishes and to remind myself of various preferences, dislikes, allergies, etc. Most of the people I cook for have at least one "bugaboo" but I don't let it bother me - I look upon it as a challenge. Fri Mar 28 13:10:12 -0700 2008 3537626 10157 farmersdaughter 5 3538055 that's a good idea FD, and if the sad day comes when you can no longer entertain, you'll have a document to spark memories. Fri Mar 28 13:26:12 -0700 2008 3537979 163722 hill food 6 3538385 Yes, my mother in law did the same thing - she gave me the idea. She still entertains, albeit not as frequently as she did when she was younger, but she loves to look back on her dinner party notebook! Fri Mar 28 14:33:27 -0700 2008 3538055 10157 farmersdaughter 5 3538181 Well I kind of expect people to tell me if they're vegetarian or not when they accept the invitation. What I wasn't expecting was the "I don't eat meat/dairy/mushrooms/seafood etc etc" list that I got so late in the day! He ended up with pasta and sauce because I'd already made the main course in advance! Fri Mar 28 13:49:48 -0700 2008 3537979 110146 greedygirl 6 3538256 I do too, especially as, in this case, we outlined the menu in writing and got a reply in writing, not mentioning the issue. Ticked me off because the item in question required a butcher order, and I could have easily gotten something else instead with enough notice. Fri Mar 28 14:02:28 -0700 2008 3538181 125234 foodiemommy 7 3538400 Then the guest has no excuse. You were kind to disclose the entire menu beforehand, and they should've said something. I think if that happened to me, that person would just have gone without protein on his plate. Fri Mar 28 14:36:58 -0700 2008 3538256 10157 farmersdaughter 6 3538263 greedy girl, that guy was a total JERK! i will bet you that he was a total jerk during dinner, too? here's another pet peeve: people who lie about having an "allergy" just because they are gutless to just say they don't like something. Fri Mar 28 14:04:39 -0700 2008 3538181 105717 alkapal 7 3538333 I claim to have had a gastric bypass and smile while picking at the delicious food... actually I eat slow and not all that much at any one sitting, so I don't want to offend the host esp. when the food is indeed quite good. Fri Mar 28 14:18:16 -0700 2008 3538263 163722 hill food 8 3538359 i'm actually talking about when i'm planning the menu, and on inviting the guests ask them if they cannot have certain foods. now i just ask if there is anything the guest doesn't like. i plan around that..... Fri Mar 28 14:24:51 -0700 2008 3538333 105717 alkapal 2 3538197 three of us: some "friends"! are you still friendly, or have they gone away? Fri Mar 28 13:52:07 -0700 2008 3537084 105717 alkapal 3 3538396 I'm sure they're out there in the Universe, cooking away. Haven't seen either one for a couple years. Another pet peeve (you must be thinking I'm a real crank!): One of these folks invited me to a summer cookout and asked me to bring a salad nicoise. No problem. When I got to their house, they hadn't started any of the prep, yet. They decided it would be "fun" for their guests to help cook. My take was that I'd already spent time making a dish and just wanted to kick back with a drink. Told them so, too! (Maybe it was after that drink.) I did help out and it was a nice evening, after all. They never did that again, though. Fri Mar 28 14:35:45 -0700 2008 3538197 15131 three of us 4 3538437 hope that drink was good! :-) Fri Mar 28 14:43:33 -0700 2008 3538396 105717 alkapal 4 3539043 That reminds me of a story . . . but first, directly on this topic. I'm one of those people who never invites other people over for dinner. I can cook decently, but I don't love it - I'm much more of a baker. But mostly I don't host dinner parties because I have a really small house that is not well laid out for entertaining. But whenever I am invited to other people's houses for dinner, I always offer to make something for the meal (usually dessert) and always bring wine. And for the one couple who host dinners for our group of friends the lion's share of the time, I and a few others take them out for a nice dinner periodically to say thank you. The other story now - that same couple are very good cooks but not much into baking. They have three year old twins, and knowing how much I love to bake, especially for Christmas, this past December they asked me if I wanted to come over on a Saturday afternoon and "help" make Christmas cookies with the girls. I arrived at the appointed time, toting my large collection of cookie cutters, food coloring, holiday-themed sprinkles, etc., to find them completely unprepared for cookie baking. No ingredients purchased, nevermind dough prepared. I explained that, even if we could find a recipe for which they had all the ingredients on hand, every type of dough for cut-out cookies requires at least a couple hours of chilling time (plus the eggs and butter have to first sit out for a while), so by the time we we got to the really fun part (icing and decorating) it would be several hours past the girls' bedtime. So I stifled my "when I bake only the best ingredients will do" instincts and ran to the grocery store for a few rolls of Pillsbury refrigerated sugar cookie dough. The twins had a fantastic time rolling dough and cutting shapes (and getting covered with flour in the process), watching the cookies bake, and then decorating them with powdered sugar icing and various holiday sprinkles (also liberally distributed on girls and floor). And the cookies even tasted pretty good. Fri Mar 28 18:12:16 -0700 2008 3538396 14819 cookie monster 5 3539279 That's a lovely story on many levels - thanks for sharing it. Fri Mar 28 19:44:38 -0700 2008 3539043 10985 MMRuth 6 3539493 I liked the story, too. My first reaction was that it went against the grains of what a Chowhound would do, but then I realized in many ways it is exactly what a 'hound should do -- even admitting the cookies tasted ok. Fri Mar 28 21:19:41 -0700 2008 3539279 10855 nosh 7 3547746 Thanks, nosh and MMRuth, for the kind words. One is definitely sticking one's neck out here by admitting to using, and enjoying, prepackaged products (unless it's part of a purposefully contrarian "gross foods that you secretly like" thread). But I think you're right on point, nosh - while the Chowhound manifesto says "you'd grow weak from hunger rather than willingly eat something less than delicious" I think for a lot of people Chowhounding is also about shared food-related experiences that will leave us with happy memories for a long, long time. Mon Mar 31 18:58:43 -0700 2008 3539493 14819 cookie monster 8 3581116 Cookiemonster - I wonder if your hostess was expecting you to bring the cookie dough, along with all your other equipment?? Thu Apr 10 10:10:28 -0700 2008 3547746 102895 Cheflambo 9 3582183 I'd think that non-bakers jsut wouldn't realize that dough needs to rest and all that. I bake but plenty of my friends dont and have no clue. A buddy of mine was recently surprised to learn that it is possible to make brownies without a mix. Thu Apr 10 14:13:08 -0700 2008 3581116 11719 jes 10 3582943 Exactly. can't tell you how many times I've had that conversation: "You made this?" "Yes." "You mean from a mix?" "No, I mean from scratch." "wow, I didn't know anyone did that." And it's just like people who are cooks but not bakers don't realize the importance of when and how you combine the ingredients in baking - you don't just dump everything in the bowl and mix. Thu Apr 10 19:15:23 -0700 2008 3582183 14819 cookie monster 10 3583051 I have a couple of friends who are stunned every time I make English muffins from scratch. And a TON of friends who are amazed I make all of my own salad dressings from scratch. Once I (stupidly) had surgery on both feet at the same time (don't ever do that!), so I needed help. The new housekeeper said she was "a great cook." Okay... What did she like to cook? "Spaghetti!" Not my favorite, but I asked her to go ahead and make some for lunch. First question: Where do I keep the spaghetti sauce? LOL! So I talked her through making a carbonara. She wouldn't have been as thrilled if I'd taught her to fly an airplane! Thu Apr 10 20:06:34 -0700 2008 3582183 112096 Caroline1 1 3537148 I entertain fairly often ( 1-2 a week a dinner for four or more). Most of my friends do not like cooking, though like eating so they are less apt to invite me. They will invite me out to a restaurant though and pick up the tab, and they always bring great wine etc. So, I am pleased with that and think it all evens out. I think there are people who love to entertain ( me) and people who get totally stressed about it ( most everyone I know). Your friends might be intimidated bc you are a good cook, or might just hate the idea of entertaining ( they need to tidy their place, cook, clean up etc). Fri Mar 28 10:15:30 -0700 2008 3534871 158016 cassoulady 2 3537278 I'm sure you're right. I did get some Waterford Crystal champagne flutes for Christmas from one of our friends. I was a bit embarrassed at her generosity, but then she made it clear it was as a thank-you for all the meals they'd enjoyed at our house. So it does even out in the end - I should stop moaning really! After all, I do love to cook and as some Russian once said, there's no such thing as altruism... Fri Mar 28 10:41:31 -0700 2008 3537148 110146 greedygirl 3 3538594 It is disheartening to always be the host and never be the guest. Or rarely. I can count six decades of entertaining, and a grand total of ten dinner invitations through all of those years. And yes, I bear that fatal flaw your husband speaks of. I am an excellent cook. In fact, I had one dinner guest announce at a formal Christmas season dinner that she was having guilt free seconds, and I would *never* be a guest in her home because she couldn't cook like I do. LOL! Like you, I have always found it an extreme act of generosity and love to be invited to dinner and have someone cook for me, even if it is peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. But I don't think many people understand the concept. It is the company, and the caring enough to extend an invitation. About my second decade of entertaining with few invitations from others, I sat myself down and had a talk. Why was I doing all this cooking and inviting? Well, the honest answer was (and still is) because I do love to cook, and I do love to have people appreciate my efforts. Was I cooking specificially to get reciprical invitations from others? No. Not really. So what's the problem! Cook, invite, enjoy! Once I understood that, things got a lot easier. '-) Fri Mar 28 15:33:09 -0700 2008 3537278 112096 Caroline1 4 3538665 It's pretty much a joke now among some of my friends that they're invited ten times before they reciprocate. LOL! I think I have made a rod for my own back by turning out "restaurant quality food". (Their words not mine. I think it's better than some of the restaurants I've been to.) ;-) You're right though - it's a great feeling when you host a successful party. We had a brilliant Boxing Day lunch this year and it was really gratifying to hear everyone say it was the best Boxing Day they'd ever had! (Mind you, they had drunk A LOT by that point!) Fri Mar 28 15:55:47 -0700 2008 3538594 110146 greedygirl 4 3539300 That's pretty much what my mom and I talked about- regardless of whether or not we ever receive invitations to out friends' or relatives homes (we do, but just not the ones we tend to cook for!), we continue to spend days on holiday and special occasion meals (not to mention dinner parties) because we really enjoy the planning and preparing and hosting and because we appreciate the tradition of gathering people together. Caring enough to invite others, and seeing their appreciation of it, is the best part. Fri Mar 28 19:52:55 -0700 2008 3538594 102095 vvvindaloo 1 3538578 It's happened to me more than I care to count. I'm amazed how many people I know just don't cook. Cooking is a personal and intimate thing I do. I love seeing the faces of people eating my food. It's reward enough if they just say thank you. I don't need any house warming gifts but a bottle of good booze will never be turned down. Fri Mar 28 15:28:55 -0700 2008 3534871 89493 scubadoo97 2 3538649 I have hosted Passover, Chanukah and New Years Day not to mention summer BBQ's for 10 years. I have cousins who come to all these events and they even are invited to my BIL's for Christmas every year and come. They have NEVER invited us over or my BIL over for anything. I am not picky, just grill me a hotdog. She can't be bothered and she is not into cleaning or cooking. To me that is plain RUDE. I sent her an email basically saying so and she never answered and didn't come this year for Christmas. No loss. Fri Mar 28 15:51:04 -0700 2008 3538578 42789 doberlady 3 3538846 wait... you're mad because you invited these people for a decade with no invite back? You didn't have to keep inviting them. That's your choice. Ten years to hold a grudge, yet keep on asking them over is crazy. Fri Mar 28 16:59:48 -0700 2008 3538649 28006 Jennalynn 4 3539790 I am not mad. I think it's rude is all. Yes, for my mom I kept asking them back for holidays. In my email I asked her to pick a holiday that they would like to host this year as we ALL are busy. Sat Mar 29 04:05:32 -0700 2008 3538846 42789 doberlady 5 3540877 I can relate to your story, doberlady, and I understand precisely why you continued to host the holidays and welcome your relatives: tradition. Older relatives, in particular, really appreciate the continuation of family holidays and, as jennalynn pointed out, younger ones often get comfortable and like to expect Passover at Cousin Doberlady's house... And it makes you happy to be able to give them that. I know that my mother, who also hosts most of the family gatherings, does it mostly for these reasons. FWIW, she hosted Christmas Eve for 18 people while she was in the middle of her chemotherapy course! She's well past that now, but she doesn't really have the stamina that she used to, so she needs a lot more help (which is where I come in :)). You would think that more family and friends might take on more responsibility (or at least extend an invitation to dinner, in or out), but only a very few do, and these tend to be the same people who entertain, as well, and understand what it means. I applaud your email to your relative asking if she would like to pick a holiday. Some people really need something held right in their face in order to see it. On the other hand, I am kind of attached to the idea of Thanksgiving at my aunt's and Christmas and Easter at my mom's. I wouldn't want it to change, even if I had to take on more work. To quote Caroline, it really is an institution. Sat Mar 29 13:02:18 -0700 2008 3539790 102095 vvvindaloo 6 3540913 I am attached to my holiday parties. We don't really want to go there for holiday dinners but she can at least offer or have all of us over in the summer for a BBQ. They have a nice home and a nice patio and yard. They are both educated and have NOOOO social graces. Should I mention that we have a large Chanukah party each year and everyone brings a gift for everyone coming (not expensive gifts) and I am a fostermom and at the time I had a baby that had been here for 3 months. They came with a gift for everyone EXCEPT the baby. I was so hurt for that little baby I cried. Just shows you the type of classless, clueless selfish people they are. That was finally the last straw and that is when I shot off the email. Sat Mar 29 13:17:11 -0700 2008 3540877 42789 doberlady 7 3541003 I hear you, doberlady. You were hurt for your foster child. I don't mind much about others' inconsideration for myself, it's my mother who I feel protective of, and sometimes get annoyed for. Just think of all the memories you have of loving people in your home :) Sat Mar 29 13:51:13 -0700 2008 3540913 102095 vvvindaloo 7 3541005 I feel your pain, but you've also brought a smile (a wicked smile) to my face... Don't ever confuse education with social graces. The two are not mutually inclusive! '-) Sat Mar 29 13:51:58 -0700 2008 3540913 112096 Caroline1 8 3541037 I was confused for many months - may be 12 - when I started dating my now-husband, because my husband would say to me that so and so was not well educated. This made no sense to me because usually these people had been to college and likely graduate school at that point. Turns out that in Spanish "educado" means well mannered etc., and he was doing an incorrect "direct" translation. Sat Mar 29 14:06:53 -0700 2008 3541005 10985 MMRuth 9 3541059 :) In Italian, we say "maleducato" to mean "ill-mannered", and "educazione" to mean "upbringing". My less-English-fluent friends are always telling me so-and-so is "not educated", and I smile very time. So perhaps in this one ironic instance, there is a correlation between manners and education! Sat Mar 29 14:15:23 -0700 2008 3541037 102095 vvvindaloo 10 3541084 I wonder if it comes from a time when manners and education were correlated - i.e., when education was only for the rich/upperclass and the rich/upperclass also established what manners were. Sat Mar 29 14:24:31 -0700 2008 3541059 10985 MMRuth 11 3541117 My husband and I were discussing exactly the same point. Personally, I am glad education has become much more accessible. But there is no question that upper class manners have not made the transition into common culture. Things change with time. Sat Mar 29 14:36:43 -0700 2008 3541084 89969 moh 6 3541708 blessings to your mom, vv. you are not alone in thoughtless relatives. it is a sad, realistic fact: the very skewed distribution of those who are "other-thinking." Sat Mar 29 18:46:12 -0700 2008 3540877 105717 alkapal 7 3541835 thank you, alkapal Sat Mar 29 19:50:32 -0700 2008 3541708 102095 vvvindaloo 3 3539544 You know, to you and me it may be rude, but through the years there is one thing I've come to realize. It's often not intended to be rude at all. It's just the way that people think about "the holidays at Aunt Martha's." It's not just a tradition, it's an institution. And people don't often think beyond that. And sometimes, with non-relatives (especially if they're young), they may well not know any better. Sometimes a casual and very non-confrontive conversation can turn things around. I know that looking back on my young married years, I just shake my head in bewilderment. Some things were just "beyond my frame of reference." You can call it stupid, or you can call it being young, but mostly it's just being human. Fri Mar 28 21:52:47 -0700 2008 3538649 112096 Caroline1 4 3581268 Caroline, this is a good point. Some people really want to do this entertaining, and would feel slighted if you took it away from them. My mom, now that she lives alone, is OK with traveling to one of my sibling's homes for Christmas, but she would really prefer to stay home and have us all visit her instead. Every year for the past 10 years I have been a guest at DH's family Thanksgiving dinner in another state. I would dearly love to host this event at my house (the food would be a LOT better and we would not be eating with plastic cutlery off paper plates) but its not going to happen. So this works both ways, you see. These days I dont think everyone realizes that reciprocation is part of the deal. I know that I enjoy entertaining and try to invite those who have fed me well, but in the greater scheme of things, some people just dont want to be bothered. They'll accept anyone's invitation and never think twice that perhaps they "owe" someone a meal. When I was growing up, my parents had a circle of neighbors/friends and dinner parties occurred almost every Saturday night. This was how I learned that if someone invites you to dinner, you "owe" them the same courtesy. The score was carefully noted, and I can remember mom saying "well, its Gloria's turn to host, but ...." as she put the finishing touches on HER meal to which Gloria and her husband were (once again) invited. I didn't think it required that much thought, but I think mom was trying to teach my sisters and I a lesson in etiquette. Thu Apr 10 10:47:02 -0700 2008 3539544 102895 Cheflambo 5 3581499 Yes, a lot of people just aren't aware, or (amazingly) think no one will notice that they never reciprocate. The same kind of poeple who never notice the elephant in your living room. But these ARE real people, and most often they don't really mean to be rude. They just don't think. My experience is that there's an even bigger gulf when it comes to reciprocating between younger people and older people. It's almost like a parent-child sort of thing. Sometimes (more often than not, in my experience) younger people assume that everything passes from the older generation to them, including entertaining. I know looking back, I was guilty of this when I was young. As a young bride, I assumed that older people who had had time to acrue lovely china and crystal goblets and lovely flatware were set financially. It took experience with life to realize that you can have budget pinches at any age, and a return inviation could be a very warming and welcome thing. Tthis current recession must be scary for many who have kicked forty in the head and moved on... '-) Thu Apr 10 11:36:17 -0700 2008 3581268 112096 Caroline1 1 3538812 some people just like to entertain & others don't. my husband & i have people way more than we go to their house, but it is because we do it pretty effortlessly (from years of doing it) and we give a good dinner party. we invite those we want & don't worry about being entertained in return. for us, the fun is in everyone having a good time. but i do understand wanting to be the guest once in a while & having someone else to the work! Fri Mar 28 16:45:56 -0700 2008 3534871 12933 meb903 2 3539864 It seems to be the fate of chowhounds: We love to cook and entertain and therefore we are always having the parties. I am also one who rarely gets invited to friends houses for dinner. But they love to come to my house! But this thread made me realize something. My friend Kim is a chowhound-she doesn't know about this site or how to turn on the computer for that matter-but a true chowhound she is. She has had us over for dinner many times and we have never reciprocated. I feel intimidated to have her and her husband over because she is a better cook than I am. I realize I need to have them over soon! I'm sure she doesn't care what I feed her-it is the company. I have had her over for many of my girl party (Cabi, Silpata etc) things but never her and her husb of who we are all good friends. So I guess what I am saying is-I invite my friends who aren't the best in the kitchen over and the ones who are good cooks have to have their own parties!! Thus the fate of chowhounds! I do realize I need to change my behavior!! Sat Mar 29 05:39:38 -0700 2008 3538812 123913 chocchipcookie 3 3539941 Isn't it great when a thread makes us think and change? Your story about Kim has reminded me that I owe some kind of invitation to a couple we know from playing sports together. We are friends with them, but they were part of the sports team crowd, and we ate with them in context of sports and after sports meals, not in fancy dinner or Chowhound settings. Well in the last 9 months, they have been extremely kind and helpful, and have come over with food and takeout. This despite having a brand new baby! Someone previously stated that you know who are your friends in times of difficulty. Now that I know, I'd better make sure I take care of them too! Thanks for the nice reminder. Sat Mar 29 06:34:14 -0700 2008 3539864 89969 moh 1 3539235 I can say that everytime I've invited people over for dinner (or dessert/coffee or something), it's always because *I* enjoyed the whole shebang--planning, cooking, even cleaning (while basking in the glow of a successful dinner). I don't care if I get invited to their place or not. Frankly, my guests are the ones giving *me* the gift--I get to plan and cook a meal and share it with wonderful people ('cause life's too short to invite people that irritate me!). That said, I do get invitations to my friends homes, but I never EXPECT them to reciprocate. They usually bring wine (which is fine, though I usually have enough on hand) or, more rarely, they bring a dish (which, I'll admit, does irritate me a bit if it's an unsolicited dish, until I remind myself that it's the thought behind it that's important). If I start hosting dinner parties out of a sense of obligation, then it's time for me to rethink the idea of entertaining. If I start becoming angry about my invitations NOT being reciprocated, then it's time for me to either stop inviting people or reflect on why I am really inviting people. Fri Mar 28 19:30:41 -0700 2008 3534871 131171 nofunlatte 2 3575848 NFL, I always understood that "hostess gifts" (how's that for a blast from the past, GG?) were intended for the people hosting the party, that is, if you bring a bottle of wine it is expected that it will be tucked away for the future enjoyment of the throwers of the party, not served that night. Bringing a food dish to a dinner party that isn't specified a potluck is a bit iffy IMO but I have applied the same tenet when that occasionally happens to me: "Thanks so much for the _____, we'll really enjoy that for lunch/a snack/dinner tomorrow" and into the fridge it goes (even if it means having to return the dish later). Re the original post, I think I am the go-to person for dinner parties in our set, although for all I know there are gatherings happening all the time that me and the SO aren't invited to ;-). I used to do the super-fancy recipes that would take several days of prep and involve multiple high-priced ingredients, but I realized that I was getting grumpy about doing all the extra work for the same amount of "wow" from guests as I would get for something simpler, and that the lower ratio of invites might well be partly because of the bar I was setting. Something else I realized (and this may be obvious) is that not only do people host dinner parties way less now, they don't make themselves nice meals (or any meals) very often. So I modified my approach and now have a stable of great, relatively easy, super delicious meals that I can make for friends that get lots of wows and don't break the time or money bank. The number of reciprocations has also gone up -- coincidence, maybe, but either way I'm happy with my new approach. Tue Apr 08 22:50:33 -0700 2008 3539235 169233 grayelf 3 3577747 Would you mind sharing what some of the menus are for your "great, relatively easy, super delicious meals that I can make for friends that get lots of wows and don't break the time or money bank"? I would love to hear some suggestions along these lines. Wed Apr 09 12:23:44 -0700 2008 3575848 13875 Nicole 4 3577754 Sorry to interrupt, but we'd ask that such a thread be started on the General Topics board, or perhaps the Home Cooking board, if recipes were to be shared. Thanks! Wed Apr 09 12:25:16 -0700 2008 3577747 2 The Chowhound Team 1 3539792 I've had a friend or two that would never pick up the tab when we went to dinner. Never, ever. It didn't matter that I had more money than she did, when she would get a bonus or money for Xmas and be spending like a lunatic, she still never offered. It really bugged me and I thought it was horribly selfish and tacky. It was one of the reasons I ended the friendship. I can imagine that the hosting thing would feel the same even though there's no check dropped at the end. When hosting, you're not only spending money but you're spending time. To not have someone interested in reciprocating can be hurtful. It's okay if someone doesn't host (I used to live in a studio apartment... couldn't have a dinner party if i wanted) but I'd make sure to host them at dinner or even their house if we were that comfortable with each other. I think someone taking to the time to say thank you and show appreciation is all that matters and when you don't get that in return, you feel used and offended. Sat Mar 29 04:08:15 -0700 2008 3534871 107212 Azizeh Barjesteh 2 3539815 Of course you're spending money when you host a dinner party and if your friends constantly expect you to host and they never reciprocate, they're free-loaders, plain and simple. Sat Mar 29 04:43:44 -0700 2008 3539792 11995 pikawicca 3 3539869 But if you know that your "friends" EXPECT you to always host and you are irritated or angered by that, why can't you just tell them? If they really are friends, they now have the opportunity to change their behavior. And if they get p*ssed off, well, you've just decluttered your "friends" list. Sat Mar 29 05:45:02 -0700 2008 3539815 131171 nofunlatte 1 3540193 I think it is intimidating even if you would like something simple they assume you want something above their cooking skills. But I think I am a pretty good cook and invite our friends to dinner and they either invite us to dinner at their house, or invite us out to a restaurant. Even if they are uncomfortable cooking why not invite you out to a restaurant, even just a neighborhood place, we don't ever care what restaurant we are happy they are nice enough to invite us? And we never comment on others food, except compliments of course. Well except the MIL to be, but she is family that is different. We appreciate their trying and that appreciation wards off any temptation to talk about their food even on the drive home. We talk about their great company instead. We all do a lot of collaborative dinners too like cook-outs and things easy for everybody to participate. We are lucky though we have very nice generous friends, and some are pretty good cooks too, and they have fun gadgets like smokers. Just do what you enjoy and maybe someday they will surprise you! Sat Mar 29 08:30:35 -0700 2008 3534871 92426 ktmoomau 1 3541772 Several folks have commented on this thread that people just don't 'do' dinner parties or entertaining anymore....and while I think there is some truth to that, I don't think it is the whole story: I think manners do play a part... two examples: I have a friend who lives nearby and alone, and we often include her in our family celebrations: she basically has a standing invitation for any holiday where she might otherwise be alone..(and I always call to ask her if she will be in town and would like to come for those celebrations). I also invite her to dinner parties, not that I have dinner parties as often as I'd like, but when I do, she is usually on the guest list. Now, she doesn't cook much (though she enjoys food). She has never had us over for a dinner party. She just doesn't do dinner party. However, she DOES reciprocate with invitations to her home: We've pften been for afternoon cocktails (and she pours a pretty mean cocktail, which I am happy to indulge in since she only lives two blocks away and walking home is always an option), with enough store bought munchies, cheese and crackers, etc. that 'drinks' often becomes dinner...She also has us over for brunch now and then. Some of these invites have been for just the two of us, sometimes she invites other friends and neighbors as well, and I've gotten to know some of our other neighbors this way, an added bonus... Contrast with another couple we invited to dinner parties perhaps five times: I enjoyed their company, but they never reciprocated in any way. Eventually, I stopped inviting them...I am a good cook, but given that neither one of this couple was the type to be easily intimidated...I don't think that was it. this couple had plenty of money, and we live less than three miles apart in a city with hundreds of good restaurants in all price categories: If it was just a question of not wanting to cook or clean, they could have invited us to dine out....but when more than a year went by and I didn't ever even hear from them unless I was calling to invite them over (in which case they always accepted enthusiastically) I decided that perhaps they weren't that interested or able to put energy into the friendship...so I've stopped inviting them. I keep hoping they will call and say, 'hey, we miss you seeing you, how about getting together', (or even just call and say hi, how are you) but so far no. To me, that isn't a friendship I want to continue to put one way energy into... Sat Mar 29 19:18:41 -0700 2008 3534871 10158 susancinsf 1 3547910 I love to cook too, and I am a good cook and baker. I have the holidays and the relatives and friends come over. I have had dinner parties, and people say that it is their turn, but I'm still waiting. As many have said I enjoy having the people over but would love to be invited over their houses, for anything. We're not picky eaters and don't care what they serve. One time for the holidays, I put out placecards, and someone came in and just moved them as they wanted to sit with their family. How rude, I was livid, but just kept my mouth shut, my husband wanted to tell them off. These are the same people who come all the time but never invite you over during the year. As others said how they tell you what they can and cannot eat, but everytime they come over they are on another weird diet. Then there was the time one would only drink bottled water, and we ran out, so dear hubby took an empty bottle filled it with tap water and said he found another bottle, didn't know the difference. Sometimes I invite people over or out to dinner, but we don't get the reciprocation. I don't understand it, they say they love being with us, but they are just sooooooooo busy. Bull! Maybe we should just all get together. Mon Mar 31 19:59:48 -0700 2008 3534871 62097 paprkutr 1 3574841 Oh no! This is me! Duh, thanks for the eye opener. In my case, I live in the suburbs and always assume that my friends that invite me to their homes would rather go out downtown than schlep themselves out to suburbia. But after reading all these posts, I bet they'd be happy every once in a while. Maybe that's why I can never come up with a good answer for the "Go-to dinner party dish" question in the Chow profile. In my defense though, I do throw huge family BBQS and casual get togethers. But I never invite my city friends! Doh! Tue Apr 08 16:03:28 -0700 2008 3534871 95577 yamalam 2 3574908 Or if it's easier for them and for you, you could drive to the city to a restaurant, and offer to host your friends for dinner there . . . I have friends who live outside the city, and even if they didn't invite me out to their place, I'd love to be hosted at a good restaurant! Tue Apr 08 16:20:20 -0700 2008 3574841 10157 farmersdaughter 3 3574927 By "host" do you mean pick up the check, or something more involved? I definitely pick up the check on occaision, but the OP got me thinking that there is something about inviting people to your home and cooking. Tue Apr 08 16:25:34 -0700 2008 3574908 95577 yamalam 4 3575881 I would be very happy if people I had invited to dinner reciprocated by taking me out....that would be all the hosting I would need. My husband tends to keep track of this more than I do...I am the type of person who just likes to have guests...so I'll invite people over somewhat randomly and expect nothing in return other than a spoken thank you. OTOH, if we've had someone to our house more than once for a meal, and they haven't invited US over or offered to take us out, my DH doesn't want to have anything to do with them. I guess everyone's tolerance for non-reciprocators is different... Tue Apr 08 23:22:55 -0700 2008 3574927 10290 janetofreno 1 3580924 No one ENJOYS criticism. Even the 'constructive' sort. But taken with an open mind, we learn things. It seems what's being implied is that if your cooking is criticized, you're not liked. But why else would people (whom you do consider to be friends) invite you for a meal at their place? Because they enjoy your company, which is more meaningful a connection than any food being served (though one can certainly enhance the other). If these invitees of yours are fairly close friends, maybe goodnaturedly wheedle for an invitation, or suggest a picnic, or a casual potluck at a location other than their home. Could they be embarrassed about their housekeeping? Everybody has their little eccentricities. Thu Apr 10 09:32:37 -0700 2008 3534871 11234 toodie jane 1 3582505 I've been thinking about this one. My parents always entertained--a lot. I followed along the same path over many years while with various wives and relationships. Now that I'm alone or with my four year old daughter, I mostly host more initmate dinner get-together's of 2-6 people. I get a lot of invites, but mostly to do or help with the cooking--a win-win for all. Thu Apr 10 16:00:19 -0700 2008 3534871 36661 Sam Fujisaka 2 3582539 "Various wives and girlfriends?" Your life has obviously been even more interesting that I'd previously imagined, Sam. I hope they all liked good chow. Thu Apr 10 16:10:53 -0700 2008 3582505 11995 pikawicca 3 3583490 As a a hound married three times, I understand where Sam is coming from <gf> Fri Apr 11 04:32:33 -0700 2008 3582539 11990 Janet from Richmond 4 3583556 I am lucky in this case. I have many friends, once in week I am invited for a dinner and even I do invite them. Felt bad to know about greedygirl. But I also feel that good cooks are happy in making others enjoy their food. Fri Apr 11 05:29:54 -0700 2008 3583490 180596 jenniefer333 1 3584170 Ok, being on the side of the invited to dinners more often, I'd like to offer my perspective. I have a place that is about 300 sq. feet. When I used to live with roommates and had access to a space that fit more than 3 adults (including me) tops, then I used to be much better about reciprocating. I would love to move to a bigger place that allows such hosting, but rent is ridiculous where I live and buying is even more ridiculous, so there you have it. I live in a 300 sq. feet box. My kitchen has a table that seats 3 very snugly. And I have had people over, so it's not like it's undoable. I also have a Japanese style kotatsu, so one time I had 3-4 people over this way-- but that is because they didn't mind sitting on the ground and eating. So this isn't an excuse, but here are some reasons why as much as I'd like to have more people over, I haven't. 1. I've already mentioned the size of my apartment. It fits 2 other people most, which means that if they have 2 or more kids, this becomes infeasible. That's at least 3 of my friends. 2. Timing. There is one couple that I owe a bizillion meals, but in order for me to cook and prepare 3 courses (or even just one course), and still fit in all of my shopping and weekend chores, it means the earliest I can host (and the only time this works, really is weekends, and then only Saturdays, b/c I like Sundays to be a lazy day) is 7/7:30, but b/c of kids, etc., they insist on eating around 5 or 6, which as much as I'd like to do, is utterly infeasible for me. Also, they say it is easier for 4 of them to stay there (and invite me over) than for them to come over, which I agree. (They also have a dishwasher.) 3. Temperature-- I'm on top of a garage and with no insulation, so in the winter, it's freezing, and in the summer, it's conversely umbearable, especially when I've cooked something. It's less of a prob in the winter, but I find myself getting inspired to cook far more in the summertime. Problem is, I have a heater to take care of the winter problems, but no AC. 4. I like having 2 sets of couples or people over, which means to make this feasible, we need to sit on the floor and eat. Only a handful of my friends are at that stage in life where they're willing to do this. 5. Non overlapping food circles-- Often, I have the situation of, I'd love to invite my friend over (who has many overlapping eating likes/dislikes with me), but since I don't eat meat, this means my eating repertoire is limited, and if this friend is ok w/ seafood and veggies, but her SO doesn't like most veggies, can't eat dairy, and hates seafood, well, this makes it extremely hard for me to invite them over. I'd love to just invite her, but obviously, this is rude. How I get around this- that said, although I probably get fed more than my feeding others, I do like to cook, so here are some things I do to get around my space limitations. 1. I go over their place and either bring food or offer to cook dinner for them. This works especially well for my friends who have kids. I get to try a recipe, w/o having to eat it for 4 days in a row, and they get fed. 2. In the town that I live, we've had a sort of informal "food coop"-- basically, if we make a batch of soup that feeds 6, and I am one person, I drop off tupperwares to people nearby. My friends do this, too, so this is a nice way to share excess food. Sometimes I'll just bring the pot of excess food, and we'll share a meal, if both of us have time. 3. If I bake anything (I usu. do a lot of bread-baking, and sometimes make cookies), again, I'll share. 4. When the weather is nice, I suggest outdoor venues for a picnic and offer to bring food. So I do try, but I also do wish I had a bigger place so I could have multiple sets of people over at a time. But I've also been on the always-inviting side as well (particularly with bachelor guys)--where I've invited them like 10 times, and they never invite back, and at times I have thought that it would be nice if this guy either reciprocates or maybe pay for a meal the next time we go out, if he doesn't cook, but well, it evens out in the end somehow. Fri Apr 11 09:36:45 -0700 2008 3534871 116395 anzu 2 3584227 My issue is that people without space still have access to restaurants or 'something'. I personally would not want someone to come and cook in my kitchen as "thanks". You still have to clean the house, be involved, etc. Right now it's something of a sore subject because we do so much entertaining at home and taking of people out (that's my husband's doing as he is a 'check grabber', but that's another subject for another day). It would be so nice to have a dinner where we didn't host, make the reservations or pick up the tab (and I realize I am projecting here). Tonight we are going out with friends...I'm in charge of reservations. Sunday we are having 8 people over for The Masters and dinner. Fri Apr 11 09:56:34 -0700 2008 3584170 11990 Janet from Richmond 3 3584555 People without space also tend to not have space because we are relatively poor, so taking people out is not an option I can do often. I barely eat out myself. Also, w/ 1 and 2 year olds, many of my friends don't want to go out, so bringing food is often the only way I get to see them. I guess we're in different stages of life, because none of my friends ever "clean the house" when I call and ask if I can bring over dinner. It never bugs me one bit if their house isn't clean. (In fact, I often don't clean till after I've entertained, since I'll have to clean anyway, especially if kids come.) Also, if I cook at someone's place, I do offer to do all of the cleaning, too. So yeah, it doesn't work for everyone, but it's the best I can do right now. Fri Apr 11 11:05:45 -0700 2008 3584227 116395 anzu 4 3584619 Have you thought of inviting your friends on a picnic? Won't work in the wintertime, but kids aren't an issue on a picnic, and it gives you a chance to be creative with great flavored food at really low prices. Nothing wrong with hot dogs, baked beans and watermelon. And have everyone pitch in with beer or wine. Fri Apr 11 11:21:39 -0700 2008 3584555 112096 Caroline1 5 3584712 Did you see my #4 above under "things I try to do to make up for always being the guest"? I have done that. It works well around here. Fri Apr 11 11:42:55 -0700 2008 3584619 116395 anzu 3 3586185 Reading these two posts, I thought of a certain friend of mine who could be anzu (but probably isn't, unless he posts on chowhound using two names :-)....He just simply cannot reciprocate much when invited to friends' places..for a lot of the reasons anzu mentions: small house, etc. I have invited him many times, and he's one guy I don't expect a reciprocal invitation from. For one thing, he is always a very welcome guest with a good bottle of wine...and sometimes food as well! And he has treated me for lunch a few times as well. I know that his profession doesn't pay nearly as well as mine, and I'm ok with whatever he can do...I just enjoy his company; enjoy the fact that he likes my food; and of course I always enjoy the wine!! OTOH, when I invite people over who have the means and live in nicer places than I do, it always irks me when they never invite me over...or at least invite me to a nice dinner. They are the ones that might not get repeat invitations.... Fri Apr 11 18:19:47 -0700 2008 3584227 10290 janetofreno 2 3587954 I just wanted to applaud your efforts. Sharing baked goods to me would be just as good as cooking me a meal, in fact I will make a meal out of your baked goods :) I think you are doing good and aren't the type of person that irks other people. Generally my friends entertain me enough I don't care if the reciprocate because they make my night better to have them there, if not then I don't invite them, doesn't have too much to do with reciprocation, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy other people cooking for me. Sat Apr 12 15:00:56 -0700 2008 3584170 92426 ktmoomau 1 3584750 I think while it isnt necessarily to repay in kind ... some people cant cook at all, or dont have the right kind of Home Space to invite people ... to not reciprocate at all is ***incredibly lame*** the high standards/intimidation theory might EXPLAIN the behavior of some non-reciprocators but it isnt at all EXCULPATORY. and it isnt a matter of whether you mind or not ... that says something about you ... the non-reciprocating says something about them. see a long thread on this topic at: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/350656 my earlier elaboration on this exact matter at: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/350656#2136520 ok tnx. Fri Apr 11 11:50:47 -0700 2008 3534871 16770 psb 2 3584855 Agree completely! Fri Apr 11 12:16:00 -0700 2008 3584750 11995 pikawicca 1 3586401 If someone doesn't have the means (financially or space) I understand that but it would be soooo nice if just once in a while they would call and say "I made pork chops for dinner, I'm bringing you over a plate for dinner. I would Love that! I have others for dinner alot and never get a invite. If they would just reciprocate in some way at least then I would know that they appreciate me having them for dinner. I always send home the majority of leftovers too, I ask them if they would like to take home a piece of lasagna, etc. and they always say YES my (3 adult) grandkids would love it (there go all the leftovers)! But I'll tell ya, it does get tiresome to clean the house, do the prep work, cook the meal, pay for the groceries, set a nice table, do the clean up and then have nothing left over for lunch. Fri Apr 11 20:54:57 -0700 2008 3534871 182747 CookinGal