498042 Tue Mar 11 10:37:30 -0700 2008 21 36 Spirits 0 3481973 I am soooo confused. Is Scotch also known and whisky? I thought they were two different liquors. This morning I was cleaning my bar and I noticed that my Chivas bottle says scotch whiskey. So is Chivas Scotch or Whiskey? And what is Rye? A form of whiskey? Scotch? I have had Scotch on a few occasions and really liked it...it was a bit sweet on my toungue and I would like to drink more of it, but was it scotch, whiskey or rye. Please help me. Tue Mar 11 10:37:30 -0700 2008 13378 yummyinmytummy 1 3482013 Whiskey is an alcoholic beverage that has been distilled from fermented grain and aged in casks. Scotch and Rye are both whiskeys. Whiskey can also be spelled whisky. Chivas uses the Whisky spelling. Tue Mar 11 10:45:27 -0700 2008 3481973 13661 Alan408 1 3482390 Scotch is a kind of whisky. Whiskey (with the "e") is Irish, or Bourbon from the US. Bourbon is also a whisk(e)y. All whisky is grain alcohol, and rye specifies what grain was used. "Single grain" and "single malt" also specify how the whisky was made. Blended whisky and single malt are oppositional. Scotch whisky must be produced and bottled in Scotland - that's what makes it scotch. Kentucky bourbon must be produced and bottled in Kentucky - (hence, Jack Daniels is a "mash," not a bourbon.) Most Bourbons are made from blended grains, including a majority of corn, which is why it's sweet. Scotch is rarely sweet like Bourbon and gets its smokey flavor from peat, which is a moss that is dried and used in the production of scotch whisky. Prost! Tue Mar 11 12:05:18 -0700 2008 3481973 173865 sylvie_nicole 2 3482715 Actually, it's a common misconception that Bourbon must be produced in Kentucky. Bourbon is any American whiskey made from at least 51% corn and aged in new, charred oak barrels. There are other requirements, but there is no requirement about where in the country it is made. Indeed, Virginia Gentleman is a Virginia Bourbon. Of course, if a Bourbon wants to call itself "Kentucky Bourbon," it must be produced in Kentucky. Jack Daniels is a Tennessee Whiskey. The difference is that after it is distilled, Tennessee Whiskey is filtered through sugar maple charcoal, which is said to impart additional flavors to the whiskey. This process, known as the Lincoln County Process, is what distinguishes Tennessee Whiskey from Bourbon. Tue Mar 11 13:25:24 -0700 2008 3482390 10132 sku 3 3482734 Just to be clear, I didn't say that Bourbon must be made in Kentucky. I said that Kentucky Bourbon must be made in Kentucky. Tue Mar 11 13:30:00 -0700 2008 3482715 173865 sylvie_nicole 4 3482765 Gotcha. Of course, that is simply a truth in advertising issue. You can't claim to have produced your product in some place other than you actually did. It's not a term of art as far as Bourbon goes. Tue Mar 11 13:40:15 -0700 2008 3482734 10132 sku 1 3482697 As Alan said, Scotch and rye are both types of whiskey. As is Bourbon, Irish Whiskey, etc. Whiskey, as a general matter, is a spirit distilled from grains and aged in oak barrels. The different whiskies are largely differentiated by the grains used to make them and their countries of origin. Scotch is a barley based and from Scotland Rye is rye based and from the US Bourbon is corn based and from the US Irish is barley based and from Ireland. This is a real simplification as the subject is quite complicated. I have a faq posted on the left side of my blog that covers it in more detail: www.recenteats.blogspot.com Tue Mar 11 13:21:29 -0700 2008 3481973 10132 sku 1 3482869 As stated by the other posters, whiskey an whisky are products created from grains, fermented and distilled, then aged in a barrell. Not sure if the barrell is a requirement for all of them, but I know of no whiskey not aged for some time in a barrell. Whiskey or whisky from barley is made by malting the barley. You put the barley seeds in a warm place, get it wet and allow it to germinate. After it has begun to germinate, you stop it from growing by heating it. If you are making Scotch, you heat the barley with a peat fire. Irish whiskey often heats using other fuels. (Some Irish whiskey using some unmalted barley in the mash.) Bourbon, Rye, Canadian Whisky, Tennessee Whiskey all have their own mash billets and requirements for how much of what grains can go into the mix. The grains go through a process that gets the usgars to come out of the grains. You do this also when making beer. Put the grains in a big contianer with water and heat them in a very controlled manner. The heat needs to be added until the mash reaches specific temperatures, held at those temperatures, then heated some more. Each step develops part of what is needed to get out the sugars. When the sugars are out of the grain and into the water, now wort, you remove the grains from the sugars and then you brew, just like beer. Take the wort and get it hot, boil it for a while, making darn sure to kill of any bacteria. One difference between whiskey and beer, the whiskey gets hops added into the brew pot. Once boiled, you let it cool, most distillers and brewers probably cool it using some heat exchange devices, then you pitch yeast into it. The yeast ferments the sugars, and that gives you a beer (without hops in the case of any whiskey I can think of). With a Tennesee whiskey and most Bourbons I think, you save some of the fermented stuff and pitch it back into the new stuff, as if you were making sourdough bread. Once fermented, you a beer, and to make whiskey you distill it. How, how many times, what kind of still, etc. all depends. The whiskey that comes out of the still resembles vodka probably more than what most peole think of as whiskey. From the still, it is aged in the barrell for however long the distiller wants it to age. Flavor wise the various types of whiskey differ because of many things. Scotch can taste sweet, peaty like chewing on moss, smoky, etc. Bourbon always seems to taste very smoky, as it much be aged in newly charred barrels. Rye tastes sweet and spicy to me. If you want to learn about these things, find a bar with a good selection and sit down. Tue Mar 11 14:08:48 -0700 2008 3481973 18017 Captain 2 3485281 does this definition mean grain based (as opposed to potato) vodka is whisky? Wed Mar 12 09:36:26 -0700 2008 3482869 135229 thew 3 3485693 no, because Vodka is not aged in a barrel (or anywhere for that matter) Wed Mar 12 11:12:52 -0700 2008 3485281 60603 TroyTempest 4 3485752 There are other differences as well. For instance Vodka is defined as a neutral spirit, "without distinctive character, aroma, taste, or color." Whiskey has a distinct taste, aroma an color. Vodka must be produced (not bottled) at or above 190 proof, whereas whiskey must be produced below 190 proof. Wed Mar 12 11:27:15 -0700 2008 3485693 10132 sku 3 3487617 I've never heard of a whiskey made from potato, but I'm not about to say an aged spirit could not be made from potato and considered a whiskey. I won't say it would be considered whiskey either. Whiskey as a whole seems like it is only made from grains. I've never heard that one was made from rice though either. Want to play with a still and do something original, have at it. Rum is even more confusing to me. Call it rum, rhum or ron. You can make it from molasses, juice pressed fresh from sugar cane and at least one other sugar cane derivative. Some is aged, some is not. Spirits can be made from lots of things, but when you begin to call them by some names, specific requirements are imposed, many by law. Tequila, Bourbon and Tennessee whiskey are all defined by the U.S. Code or NAFTA. Wed Mar 12 21:28:45 -0700 2008 3485281 18017 Captain 1 3487726 Can we get TECHNICAL for a moment? Code of Federal Regulations Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms PART 5—LABELING AND ADVERTISING OF DISTILLED SPIRITS Subpart C—Standards of Identity for Distilled Spirits (a) Class 1; neutral spirits or alcohol. “Neutral spirits” or “alcohol” are distilled spirits produced from any material at or above 190° proof, and, if bottled, bottled at not less than 80° proof. (b) Class 2; whisky. “Whisky” is an alcoholic distillate from a fermented mash of grain produced at less than 190° proof in such manner that the distillate possesses the taste, aroma, and characteristics generally attributed to whisky, stored in oak containers (except that corn whisky need not be so stored), and bottled at not less than 80° proof, and also includes mixtures of such distillates for which no specific standards of identity are prescribed. -- (1)(i) “Bourbon whisky”, “rye whisky”, “wheat whisky”, “malt whisky”, or “rye malt whisky” is whisky produced at not exceeding 160° proof from a fermented mash of not less than 51 percent corn, rye, wheat, malted barley, or malted rye grain, respectively, and stored at not more than 125° proof in charred new oak containers; and also includes mixtures of such whiskies of the same type. -- (1)(ii) “Corn whisky” is whisky produced at not exceeding 160° proof from a fermented mash of not less than 80 percent corn grain, and if stored in oak containers stored at not more than 125° proof in used or uncharred new oak containers and not subjected in any manner to treatment with charred wood; and also includes mixtures of such whisky. -- (1)(iii) Whiskies conforming to the standards prescribed in paragraphs (b)(1)(i) and (ii) of this section, which have been stored in the type of oak containers prescribed, for a period of 2 years or more shall be further designated as “straight”; for example, “straight bourbon whisky”, “straight corn whisky”, and whisky conforming to the standards prescribed in paragraph (b)(1)(i) of this section, except that it was produced from a fermented mash of less than 51 percent of any one type of grain, and stored for a period of 2 years or more in charred new oak containers shall be designated merely as “straight whisky”. No other whiskies may be designated “straight”. “Straight whisky” includes mixtures of straight whiskies of the same type produced in the same State. (2) “Whisky distilled from bourbon (rye, wheat, malt, or rye malt) mash” is whisky produced in the United States at not exceeding 160° proof from a fermented mash of not less than 51 percent corn, rye, wheat, malted barley, or malted rye grain, respectively, and stored in used oak containers; and also includes mixtures of such whiskies of the same type. Whisky conforming to the standard of identity for corn whisky must be designated corn whisky. (3) “Light whisky” is whisky produced in the United States at more than 160° proof, on or after January 26, 1968, and stored in used or uncharred new oak containers; and also includes mixtures of such whiskies. If “light whisky” is mixed with less than 20 percent of straight whisky on a proof gallon basis, the mixture shall be designated “blended light whisky” (light whisky—a blend). (4) “Blended whisky” (whisky—a blend) is a mixture which contains straight whisky or a blend of straight whiskies at not less than 20 percent on a proof gallon basis, excluding alcohol derived from added harmless coloring, flavoring or blending materials, and, separately, or in combination, whisky or neutral spirits. A blended whisky containing not less than 51 percent on a proof gallon basis of one of the types of straight whisky shall be further designated by that specific type of straight whisky; for example, “blended rye whisky” (rye whisky—a blend). (5)(i) “A blend of straight whiskies” (blended straight whiskies) is a mixture of straight whiskies which does not conform to the standard of identify for “straight whisky.” Products so designated may contain harmless coloring, flavoring, or blending materials as set forth in 27 CFR 5.23(a). -- (5)(ii) “A blend of straight whiskies” (blended straight whiskies) consisting entirely of one of the types of straight whisky, and not conforming to the standard for straight whisky, shall be further designated by that specific type of straight whisky; for example, “a blend of straight rye whiskies” (blended straight rye whiskies). “A blend of straight whiskies” consisting entirely of one of the types of straight whisky shall include straight whisky of the same type which was produced in the same State or by the same proprietor within the same State, provided that such whisky contains harmless coloring, flavoring, or blending materials as stated in 27 CFR 5.23(a). -- (5)(iii) The harmless coloring, flavoring, or blending materials allowed under this section shall not include neutral spirits or alcohol in their original state. Neutral spirits or alcohol may only appear in a “blend of straight whiskies” or in a “blend of straight whiskies consisting entirely of one of the types of straight whisky” as a vehicle for recognized flavoring of blending material. (6) “Spirit whisky” is a mixture of neutral spirits and not less than 5 percent on a proof gallon basis of whisky, or straight whisky, or straight whisky and whisky, if the straight whisky component is less than 20 percent on a proof gallon basis. (7) “Scotch whisky” is whisky which is a distinctive product of Scotland, manufactured in Scotland in compliance with the laws of the United Kingdom regulating the manufacture of Scotch whisky for consumption in the United Kingdom: Provided, That if such product is a mixture of whiskies, such mixture is “blended Scotch whisky” (Scotch whisky—a blend). (8) “Irish whisky” is whisky which is a distinctive product of Ireland, manufactured either in the Republic of Ireland or in Northern Ireland, in compliance with their laws regulating the manufacture of Irish whisky for home consumption: Provided, That if such product is a mixture of whiskies, such mixture is “blended Irish whisky” (Irish whisky—a blend). (9) “Canadian whisky” is whisky which is a distinctive product of Canada, manufactured in Canada in compliance with the laws of Canada regulating the manufacture of Canadian whisky for consumption in Canada: Provided, That if such product is a mixture of whiskies, such mixture is “blended Canadian whisky” (Canadian whisky—a blend). . . . and it goes on and on and on and on! Wed Mar 12 22:31:28 -0700 2008 3481973 28122 zin1953 2 3488036 Thank you. I was going to break out the title 27 but you beat me to it. I've been going over it the past few weeks and keep a copy here on my desk. Thu Mar 13 05:29:04 -0700 2008 3487726 10732 JMF 2 3488565 I know NAFTA has some provisions on spirits too, but I doubt such provisions contradict the above. Further to my last comment, I got curious and looked for whiskey distilled from a rice mash. It exists. I am not sure I am going to look for or drink it. See: http://www.spiritsreview.com/reviews-whiskey-cobra.htm This clearly tops the worm in a bottle of mezcal. Thu Mar 13 08:35:14 -0700 2008 3487726 18017 Captain 2 3489121 So is GT Stagg not technically a bourbon because of its higher proof? Thu Mar 13 10:35:19 -0700 2008 3487726 155482 tonabang 3 3489994 There is a maximum of 125 proof for barrel aging, but the proof actually goes UP in the barrel and so barrel/cask strength bourbon may be a bit higher than 125 proof. The older the barrel, the higher the proof. Thu Mar 13 13:57:36 -0700 2008 3489121 10732 JMF 3 3490288 As Jonathan has said, the level of alcohol actually goes UP during aging. But if you re-read the above -- or better yet, the following: * * * * * CFR Title 27, Part 5, Subpart C, Paragraph (b)(1)(i) “Bourbon whisky”, “rye whisky”, “wheat whisky”, “malt whisky”, or “rye malt whisky” is whisky produced at not exceeding 160° proof from a fermented mash of not less than 51 percent corn, rye, wheat, malted barley, or malted rye grain, respectively, and stored at not more than 125° proof in charred new oak containers; and also includes mixtures of such whiskies of the same type. * * * * * Note that 160 proof referred to is the maximum level of alcohol at which the Bourbon (or other whiskey) can leave the still. It must be reduced to a maximum of 125 proof prior to being placed in barrels for aging. The "cask strength" level of alcohol can and typically will increase during that aging, but -- generally -- whiskies are then cut with water (hopefully slowly and over a number of times) to bring them down to 80 proof (the lowest specified minimum), or 96, or 100, or 107, or . . . . whatever the distiller wants. Cheers, Jason Thu Mar 13 15:26:22 -0700 2008 3489121 28122 zin1953 4 3498846 do you know if the stagg going up in proof over the past few years is just a coincidence or if buffalo trace actually makes a concerted effort in one way or another to up the ante? Sun Mar 16 16:12:20 -0700 2008 3490288 16620 bza 5 3498881 To the best of my knowledge, George T. Stagg Bourbon is bottled in small batches, and each batch varies slightly in its strength. Sun Mar 16 16:25:26 -0700 2008 3498846 28122 zin1953 5 3499338 I imagine it is purposeful. It's definitely been going up through the years. Sun Mar 16 19:19:45 -0700 2008 3498846 10132 sku 1 3499433 And here's an old discussion about Japanese whisky, which is apparently made like Scotch: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/339636 Sun Mar 16 19:59:55 -0700 2008 3481973 149250 DeppityDawg