497091 Sat Mar 08 12:14:54 -0800 2008 69 31 Home Cooking 0 3473012 I made steamed dumplings last night from Fuchsia Dunlop’s “Land of Plenty” and they didn’t come out as well as I had hoped. I’m not sure where I went wrong. In the hope that there are those on this board who know how to make steamed Chinese dumplings but may not be following the Cookbook of the Month threads, here’s the link to my post: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/494662#3471221 Also, Dunlop doesn’t include any recipes for dipping sauces for dumplings in either this book or in “Revolutionary Chinese Cooking.” Traditionally, are there different dipping sauces for different kinds of dumplings? Is a garlic, soy sauce, rice wine vinegar, ginger, red pepper flakes, and sesame oil dip (which I’ve used for spring rolls) also used for dumplings? Sat Mar 08 12:14:54 -0800 2008 11407 JoanN 1 3473829 You need to provide more details of what you mean re: they didn't come out as well as you had hoped. There are 1000 ways that dumplings can come out in disappointing ways. Sat Mar 08 17:58:04 -0800 2008 3473012 36661 Sam Fujisaka 2 3473844 Sorry. Thought the link was enough. I'll repeat part of it it here, but there's bit more detail in the original post: "I really liked the filling. The pork with pumpkin was a surprisingly flavorful combination. But the dumpling wrappers weren’t the light, ethereal, almost not-there wrappers I’ve had in better Asian restaurants. They were a bit heavy and, particularly where the edge was pleated, rather unpleasantly chewy. Any dumplings makers here who can help me out? Was it the purchased wrappers? Did I not steam them long enough? I used to have Chinese steamer baskets but didn’t use them much so got rid of them for space reasons; I used one of those steamer inserts in an 8-quart pasta/stock pot; could it be they were too far from the steam? "The recipe says it makes 25 to 30 dumplings with a teaspoon of filling in each dumpling. I used a quite rounded teaspoon of filling in each and ended up with 31 dumplings. I steamed about 8 and froze the rest, so I’d appreciate any advice anyone can give me on how to cook these frozen dumplings (do I just steam them from frozen adding a bit more time?) and if there’s anything I can do, like steaming them longer than called for, to make the wrappings more tender." Sat Mar 08 18:04:57 -0800 2008 3473829 11407 JoanN 3 3474902 We just steam them directly from the freezer. Also, if your skins are chewy at the edges, I think you need to steam them longer and/or the skins were too old/dry. As for purchased dumpling skins, I can't help much except to suggest that you find thinner dumpling skins -- the LA Times had a list this week of recommended brands with the thinner ones being at the top of the list. Not sure if the list would be applicable to where you live. Sun Mar 09 09:33:54 -0700 2008 3473844 18705 emily 4 3474928 Thank you so much, emily. I found that article in the LATimes and will take it along on my next trip to Chinatown. I'm in Manhattan, but the article was tremendously helpful nonethess. I wouldn't have realized there could be such a difference among wrappers. And I'll take your advice to steam directly from the freezer and for a longer period of time and see if that helps. Sun Mar 09 09:44:35 -0700 2008 3474902 11407 JoanN 5 3491166 heya, being in Manhattan, it'll be extremely easy to get the thinnest dumpling skins available...just be sure to check the little mom/pop grocery stores in C-town (go to the ones that are busiest/highest traffic, there'll be a better turnover)...in the smallest of shops, you'll be able to find them in a small fridge towards the back of the store generally. and ask the owners which ones they recommend, or which brand is most popular...they're always happy to help :) Also, while working with them, keep them moist with a damp towel covering it. You should also work as fast as possible to minimize handling of the dough - not sure of the science behind it, it's just something my mum's always told me. Another secret is to use beaten egg yolk - lightly applied with your fingertip to the edges - to help seal each dumpling. Just press the edges gently between your fingers to create a seal. In your link, you asked about other ways to cook dumplings besides steaming. You can pan fry them (like the Japanese "gyoza"), but be sure to boil them first. From frozen, I'd actually put them in the fridge overnight to defrost before you want to use them as the filling will get soggy and fall out during the cooking process. For sauce, I like to use a couple of tablespoons light soy sauce (light as in the color, not sodium) with a couple of drops sesame oil, and a few thinly sliced ginger. I use this for both pan fried and steamed dumplings...yumyum! Thu Mar 13 20:33:36 -0700 2008 3474928 174353 lilingenue 4 3479143 Linking the article for reference http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo-dumplingside5mar05,1,766076.story Mon Mar 10 14:45:54 -0700 2008 3474902 10271 Rubee 3 3474962 My fault, I hadn't opened the link. You made a great looking batch. Emily is right. With the relatively thick wrappers you used, you probably could have even used a bit more filling and a longer steaming time. The stainless steamer inserts should be perfect (at least they're what I use with no problem). And, yes, steam the frozen ones directly from the freezer. Sun Mar 09 09:57:59 -0700 2008 3473844 36661 Sam Fujisaka 3 3477398 Best to make your own wrappers. I have yet to find any pre-made wrappers that are any good (and yes, I have read the LA Times article and found it laughable with respect to buying your wrappers). Mon Mar 10 07:55:00 -0700 2008 3473844 11583 ipsedixit 4 3478772 I agree. My mom taught us to make wrappers when we were very young, so you should be able to do it, too, since we were not precocious kids. That said, could you roll out the thick store-bought wrappers to thinner, albeit larger, ones? I've never tried it, but theoretically it should be possible. (Has anyone tried this?) Mon Mar 10 13:22:07 -0700 2008 3477398 17220 Claudette 5 3478822 Interesting idea to try to roll out the store-bought ones a bit more. I had a few left over. I'll give it a try. Not sure why the idea of making my own intimidates me. I do plenty of baking and am pretty used to rolling out dough. I think it's probably the thought of trying to do 30 of them and having them come out all uneven and hard to seal that's kept me from attempting it. But maybe I'll give that a try as well. Mon Mar 10 13:36:30 -0700 2008 3478772 11407 JoanN 6 3478882 You might try using Chinkiang vinegar instead of the usual rice vinegar, if you haven't already. Mon Mar 10 13:46:42 -0700 2008 3478822 106260 trentyzan 7 3478982 I have Chinkiang vinegar, but I'm not sure what you're suggesting I use it for. Certainly not in the dumpling wrappers? Mon Mar 10 14:10:52 -0700 2008 3478882 11407 JoanN 6 3479055 JoanN, You do about 20 wrappers, and the next 20 will be a breeze. Although if you were in my family, each time one of my wrappers would come out "funny" my mom would punish me by re-forming all the prior dumpling skins that I had rolled out into one big dough mass, and I would be forced to start all over from scratch, literally. But seriously, you do enough of them and you get into a rhythm and it's no big deal. Mon Mar 10 14:30:38 -0700 2008 3478822 11583 ipsedixit 7 3479498 LOL! I know you're right. Sort of like making tortillas by hand. It's the first couple of hundred that are the problem. I used to think making rugelach was borderline painful. Now I can make them in my sleep. As the slogan says, Just Do It. Thanks for the encouragement. Mon Mar 10 16:30:36 -0700 2008 3479055 11407 JoanN 7 3482508 Reminds me that I recently watched a You Tube video of a couple making strudel, i.e., stretching the dough out on a table. Really fun to see, as well as impressive. Tue Mar 11 12:35:21 -0700 2008 3479055 10245 oakjoan 5 3478995 I actually think - at least in terms of my recent spring roll experience - that that might be a good idea. Mon Mar 10 14:15:48 -0700 2008 3478772 10985 MMRuth 5 3479035 Claudette, Re: rolling out the store-bought wrappers. That won't work. The problem with store-bought wrappers is not necessarily their thickness (although that is no doubt an issue), but the real problem is that they've been refrigerated, which does bad things to the gluten in the dough, making it tough and too much like pizza or bread dough, instead of dumpling wrappers. As far as dipping sauces go, I like to take my dumplings straight up. I'm of the belief that if you mix and season your dumpling fillings correctly, there's no need for additional sauces after the fact. Mon Mar 10 14:26:49 -0700 2008 3478772 11583 ipsedixit 6 3483295 Hey, thanks for this info, ipsedixit. I wonder why this won't work, but my frozen pie dough is okay? I surmise that the Chinese dough is much more delicate, flexible, and the audience much more demanding. ;-) Tue Mar 11 16:20:15 -0700 2008 3479035 17220 Claudette 3 3481598 I always freeze extra dumplings and the meat is raw. I steam as normal, and if making soup drop in like fresh. They work beautifully for those nights when you crave Chinese!!! Tue Mar 11 09:25:29 -0700 2008 3473844 50431 chef chicklet 1 3478979 I usually use Chinese red vinegar or a mixture of white vinegar/soy sauce with slivers of ginger as a dipping sauce. Purchased dumpling wrappers are generally thicker than handmade, but I admit to being lazy and using the store-bought ones. Mon Mar 10 14:10:36 -0700 2008 3473012 93901 geekyfoodie 1 3479908 I mix until it seems to have the right flavor: 4 tbs. soy sauce, a few drops of rice vinegar, and a couple of drops of sesame oil. I also chop the green ends of scallions and put them in the sauce. You may want to play with the proportions until you get something you like. Mon Mar 10 18:49:21 -0700 2008 3473012 87837 RGC1982 2 3479955 I made a dipping sauce for some Dunlop spring rolls, from another book - 1/2 cup light soy sauce, 3 T each minced ginger and garlic, 1 Tsp hot chili oil, 1 T sugar, and some salt and rice vinegar (don't remember amounts) - v. nice. Mon Mar 10 19:07:46 -0700 2008 3479908 10985 MMRuth 1 3481354 As someone mentioned. Its best to make you're own wrappers for that light taste you want. In a hurry, I use the packaged, and they have more chew, also depends on the brand. But the pictures look wonderful, I can't wait to make these. Great photos! Oh and my favorite dipping sauce is one I make, soy, rice wine vinegar, and chili paste. Another is bottled - Nuoc Cham, Vietnamese fish sauce with fresh chili, carrots and garlic. (its easiest) Here I am. I'm supposed to be putting my Irish St. Patty's Day menu together. And what am I doing? Looking at Chinese food recipes!!! Guess you know where my heart is... Tue Mar 11 08:39:33 -0700 2008 3473012 50431 chef chicklet 1 3481408 All this talk of homemade wrappers, and nary a recipe... anyone willing to share? I have been toying with the idea of making my own wrappers as I need big wrappers to make soup dumplings with enough soup in them, and the ones I buy are too small. Is it as simple as flour and water and roll? Any tips? Thanks! Tue Mar 11 08:48:43 -0700 2008 3473012 89969 moh 2 3481585 For all Regions, this recipe given to me by my teacher. Making them is easy. Chow-Tse - pot stickers fried 3 Cups flour- AP 1 C BOILING water 4 T cold water 1/2 cup flour for dusting Pour boiling water into the flour, quickly stir with a fork or chopstick, mix well, then add the cold water. Mix and knead into a soft dough about 5 mins. Cover with damp cloth or paper towel. Set aside and rest 10 mins. Knead the dough for 1 min, roll into a long sausage and cut into about 1 inch lengths (divide dough into 32 pieces) Dust flour on the board, flatten and roll dough very thin (I like very thin) and roll about 3 inch diameter Place 1 T filling in center of each piece, fold over into a half moon shape, make pleats to each end. Pinch together to seal. Heat pan, add 1 1/2 T oil, arrange dumplings in rows and cook over moderate heat about 3 inutes. Pour 1/2 cup hot water around dumplings, Cover tightly and continue cooking - 8 to 10 mins or until dumplings are golden brown and water is dried. dipping sauce - 2 T Black vinegar 2 T Soy sauce 2 T shredded ginger Chow-Tse - or steamed dumpling- same dough. I haven't made the soup dumplings but imagine you would just roll them a little bigger... Tue Mar 11 09:21:52 -0700 2008 3481408 50431 chef chicklet 3 3481626 Interesting that your recipe uses boiling water! Is there ever a problem with the water "cooking" the flour before you get it mixed in? Tue Mar 11 09:32:58 -0700 2008 3481585 11028 DanaB 4 3481697 Hmm, I found that interesting as well. I've never used boiling, or even hot, water for my dumpling skin dough. It's always been cold water. Tue Mar 11 09:48:32 -0700 2008 3481626 11583 ipsedixit 4 3481719 no I don't know how to make it any other way??? Not sure why you think that it would cook it, I use hot water when I bloom yeast for the pizza dough, and then that goes into the flour also with great results. I wonder if there is any difference... now I'll have to try your way! Tue Mar 11 09:51:36 -0700 2008 3481626 50431 chef chicklet 5 3481905 Thanks all! I am looking forward to trying these soup dumplings again! Tue Mar 11 10:26:59 -0700 2008 3481719 89969 moh 5 3481952 Looks great chef chicklet! Ipsedixit and Dana B, I can't find the page, but Dunlop talks about both cold-water dough and hot-water dough in Land of Plenty. Edited: Found it - On p. 112, Dunlop says that in Sichuan, pot-sticker dumplings are made with hot-water dough (tang mian) "that gives them a slightly glutinous texture". She gives the recipe for hot-water dough on p. 113, and adds that store-bought wrappers are cold-water dough and dumplings using this are more like those served in Chinese restaurants here. Chef Chicklet, you have me convinced that I should try making the authentic hot-water dough! Tue Mar 11 10:34:27 -0700 2008 3481719 10271 Rubee 6 3482098 I don't have the Dunlop book rubee, but as I've said before, I took cooking lessons from a Chinese lady about oh...20 years ago. She (Mrs. Yu) also uses hot water for the Chinese pancakes for moo shoo pork-OMG this dish is so wonderful, impressive and so easy!! The wrappers are going to be different, the store bought are not awful, but they do tend to be tough. Believe me I do use them so please don't think I'm knocking them, the fresh are just different. If you make pork buns, that's a good way to start making Chinese dough and easy as well. I'm not sure what region she was from (probably Oakland!), but she taught us many recipes. On her introduction page, she writes "Food characteristics, Peking, Shaghai, Canton, Szechwan- Four Major Groups. I have 10 pages of hand typed recipes,and each page is very stained with soy sauce, oil and chili paste! I have cooked all the recipes many times over, except the Minced Pigeon (I think Canton) and the Eight Precious Pudding with Sweet Almond Sauce. All of them are wonderful and perfect in instructions. And that is what is drawing me to this months CBOM! I haven't been able to drive the last two weeks, a little accident, but I am going to get her book, because it looks like her recipes are right on with what I was taught, and I could use a few more good ones! I've been really enjoying following the thread of Dunlop's books it has been one of the most informative and fun reads. Sorry to deviate from your thread guys! Tue Mar 11 11:04:29 -0700 2008 3481952 50431 chef chicklet 7 3482128 Wow, I'd love to be a dinner guest of yours! ; ) Tue Mar 11 11:11:30 -0700 2008 3482098 10271 Rubee 8 3483493 You are too cute Rubee! I was going to ask if I could eat at your house! You're always making something fantastic! But you're certainly welcome anytime! All I have to say is if you know any older Chinese ladies or gentlemen try to get them to tell you how its done. Sadly, these techniques are soon going to be a lost art I fear. Tue Mar 11 17:29:50 -0700 2008 3482128 50431 chef chicklet 9 3483537 Not in China! Tue Mar 11 17:50:46 -0700 2008 3483493 36661 Sam Fujisaka 10 3488816 Sam I just saw this! Made me laugh too, but you know kids are a changin' all over the world, so I hope you're right! Thu Mar 13 09:31:06 -0700 2008 3483537 50431 chef chicklet 9 3487465 I just asked my mom, who's turning 80 next month, and she uses hot water. I should have known, but I haven't done it since I as 12 yrs old. Wed Mar 12 20:28:06 -0700 2008 3483493 17220 Claudette 10 3487750 That's interesting, since this came up I've been looking at many other recipes. The original recipe(s) for dough that I have all work well, actully all of her recipes are good. Claudette, did you get the entire recipe from your mother? What is this Potassium bicarbonate that is added to some dough recipes? Anyone know? I've seen where a tsp of ammoniai is added and in others, lye water... Wed Mar 12 22:45:44 -0700 2008 3487465 50431 chef chicklet 11 3487773 A while back, I used a recipe that used 50/50 all purpose flour and cake flour. It turned out pretty well. As for buying the skin and looking for the thinner, more delicate skin, have you tried a shumai skin from a Japanese manufacturer? The down side is that it's a square wrapper, but the Japanese shumai wrapper is thinner and I think it uses a different dough - the shumai wrappers made by the Japanese tend to have potato or corn starch in it, I think. I'm sure you'll be able to find it at Marukai or Mitsuwa (next to the "gyoza no kawa" that the LA Times article mentions - :P) Wed Mar 12 23:01:21 -0700 2008 3487750 97268 biff34 12 3488822 Biff34 the 50/50 did you use straight cold water? Thu Mar 13 09:32:19 -0700 2008 3487773 50431 chef chicklet 11 3488833 I'll ask her the next time I see her. Problem is, she's never ever used a recipe when cooking Chinese (only when making cakes). My relatives and I usually watch her cook and measure everything she uses before she puts them in, since she never measures, either. This is the only way we were able to get her sticky rice recipe. Wish me luck! BTW: A few years ago, I remember being able to buy packeages of both thick and thin skins at the Asian markets. I'll have to look again soon. Thu Mar 13 09:35:41 -0700 2008 3487750 17220 Claudette 3 3482434 chef chicklet, I hate to ask, but I have to be me, so I shall--have you ever tried using whole wheat flour instead of the AP flour? Or half AP and half WW or something along those lines? Trying trying trying to incorporate more whole grains into my diet... P.S. Sorry to hear about your accident--I hope everyone's okay...though it sounds like your car isn't... ~TDQ Tue Mar 11 12:16:57 -0700 2008 3481585 12005 The Dairy Queen 4 3482465 For Chinese? No...Although I do have a lovely bag of WW in my pantry. I can't quite picture it in dumpling dough, but you try it! The only healthy changes to my Chinese/Thai/Asian whatever food that I make is, to use less oil, less fatty meat, and try not to deep fry too often. I just love it too too much. Thank you for your concern, yes I'm going to be fine. The accident involved a two year old toddler, he stopped short in front of me as we were playing "horsey" and galloping around. In order not to fall on him, I dove to the right, landing on my face. Yup, black eye, bruised cheek, cut. Bad sprained right wrist and foot!! so I haven't been able to drive. Watch out for those two year olds, they are wild! Wrist is getting so much better thankfully, I was geting ready to train him how to uncork champagne! Tue Mar 11 12:26:15 -0700 2008 3482434 50431 chef chicklet 5 3482484 Okay, maybe I'll try WW flour and see what happens (and let you know, of course)--probably won't be for awhile anyway. Oh dear--so sorry to hear about your myriad injuries, but it sounds like you did the right thing, of course. ~TDQ Tue Mar 11 12:31:11 -0700 2008 3482465 12005 The Dairy Queen 5 3482787 Sad-but-true, Gold Medal bleached all-purpose is certainly cookbook authors' most common choice, and when I've seen the bags in restaurants (or out on the curb, empty), it's usually GM. The books say the others just don't come out as well - never perfect - so maybe this isn't a place to worry about the infinitesmal amount of some potentially vaguely harmful substances you'll get in a few dumplings skins. :) Tue Mar 11 13:45:15 -0700 2008 3482465 11980 MikeG 2 3482339 moh, I had saved this link thinking one day I would make this myself. Maybe this will help you.... http://steamykitchen.com/blog/2007/04/30/xiao-long-bao-shanghai-steamed-soup-dumplings/ Tue Mar 11 11:54:11 -0700 2008 3481408 50431 chef chicklet 3 3482421 Chef Chicklet, you are the best! That is an awesome link! Tue Mar 11 12:13:19 -0700 2008 3482339 89969 moh 4 3482440 Oh wow. Gorgeous photos. I'm so inspired! ~TDQ Tue Mar 11 12:19:15 -0700 2008 3482421 12005 The Dairy Queen 5 3482537 Joan N. I can't tell from your original post whether the dough was tough or too thick or whatever in every part of your spring roll or just at the end or seams (you probably said all this and I just misread it, as many of us have been doing lately). If it was okay in the middle and tough/gummy, etc. at the ends, it's obvious that there was too much wrapper. My son just made ravioli for a dinner party last weekend and used my much neglected pasta roller. Seems as if that'd be great to make wrappers. I'm sure somebody has already mentioned this earlier in the thread. Tue Mar 11 12:42:19 -0700 2008 3482440 10245 oakjoan 6 3483500 Good thought about the pasta roller. I know ipsedixit said it wasn't worth trying to roll out refrigerated doughs, but I've already got some sitting around and it would be more fun to try the pasta roller than to just throw them out. Tue Mar 11 17:32:01 -0700 2008 3482537 11407 JoanN 4 3482496 Is that not amazing how she does the gelatin??? so neat just pop little cubes into your dumpling. I have heard that this an extraordinarily good soup. It's on my "must do' list. Tue Mar 11 12:33:00 -0700 2008 3482421 50431 chef chicklet 1 3483175 oh, so I posted at your other post about dumplings when I should have done it here. oops. There's already a lot of information here. I'm also intrigued about using boiling hot water to make the dough. I've seen it in recipes, but never actually tried it. I can say though, even if you used cold water, the dumpling skins will not necessarily be harder or tougher. That will have to do with also with the amount of water you use, and your kneading technique. Though it seems that with boiling water the dough will be more of the translucent type and naturally softer. I haven't seen much mention about the actual rolling technique for making the wrapper - the method that doesn't involve a cutter, but rather shaping each by hand, and rolling them so that on the edges they will be thinner. This is one of the ways your dumpling ridges won't be twice as thick. Although, if your dough condition is pliable, when you pinch the wrappers to seal you can squeeze and have the dough conform to the thickness that you desired, so, the special rolling technique of flattening each ball, one hand rotating the dough as the other with the roller doing the outward rolling motion a full circle, is something that you want to do if you want better control of your wrapper. The last time I made dumplings I made about 400 of them, rolling each wrapper one by by, and wrapping it as I made each one, and soon into the process I realized that a perfect circle isn't the best shape for good dough/skin ratio. Anyhow, just thought I'd throw this thought out there and see if you'll find some sort of agreement there. Happy dumpling-ing! Tue Mar 11 15:38:55 -0700 2008 3473012 10422 HLing 2 3483290 On an episode of Yan Can Cook, he was in China somewhere and the chef swatted a wad of dough twice with a huge cleaver and made perfect wrapper circles in about 1 second each. Awesome! I've made hundreds of dumplings in my time, but I can't even dream that fast. Tue Mar 11 16:18:45 -0700 2008 3483175 17220 Claudette 3 3483559 The cleaver bash and smear technique. I can't do it--makes me so jealous, just like seeing people twirling pizza dough or being with someone who can play the sax. Tue Mar 11 17:59:11 -0700 2008 3483290 36661 Sam Fujisaka 4 3487462 ...or sing like Pavarotti. I tried it a few times (using the cleaver, not singing opera) and it was pretty funny, but sad. Wed Mar 12 20:27:00 -0700 2008 3483559 17220 Claudette 2 3483476 Dust the board with flour, flatten one of the pieces (32 - 1 inch) with your hand. Roll out very thin- about 3 inch diameter, Place 1 T of filling in center of each piece, fold over into half moon shape, and make pleats at each end. Pinch ends together to seal. Goes pretty fast when you get the hang of it. I can't compare the dough I make with the boiling water to anything else since thats the way I learned. The dough is lovely, and there is definite technique to not get that edge too thick, practice will help. pleats should be uniform and don't pinch or squeeze too hard, be gentle. 400 dumplings! You got it down. I find it therapeutic, that and making tamales are my favorite things to assemble! And the same thing stands true, just a little masa, or there is too much and the tamale is too doughy, or they burst with too much filling. HOW fun! Tue Mar 11 17:23:45 -0700 2008 3483175 50431 chef chicklet 3 3486984 "...I find it therapeutic, that and making tamales are my favorite things to assemble! And the same thing stands true, just a little masa, or there is too much and the tamale is too doughy, or they burst with too much filling. HOW fun!.." Oh oh, I want to learn to make Tamales! I'm still trying to figure out what kind of corn to use for the masa if i were to grind it myself.... Wed Mar 12 17:02:00 -0700 2008 3483476 10422 HLing 4 3487162 HLing, making tamales is enough fun without grinding maize, liming it, and the like. Just get some Masaharina, lard, dried corn husks, and your filling stuff and away you go. Wed Mar 12 18:11:17 -0700 2008 3486984 36661 Sam Fujisaka 5 3491053 Sam Fujisaka and Chef Chicklet, Bear with me here. I'm mad passionate about grinding right now...don't worry, it, too, will pass. Thu Mar 13 19:46:31 -0700 2008 3487162 10422 HLing 4 3488865 I so agree with Sam. Thu Mar 13 09:41:35 -0700 2008 3486984 50431 chef chicklet 2 3483517 I think, HLing, that if you put together a video of your rolling technique on a DVD you could sell quite a few of them right here. Hard to picture your description, but I do recall Dunlop saying something about rolling from the outside to the center (instead of the other way around, which is traditional in so much pastry making) so that the edges would be thinner than the center. Makes perfect sense. But I doubt I'll ever do 400. Even in my remaining lifetime. Impressive beyond belief. Tue Mar 11 17:40:20 -0700 2008 3483175 11407 JoanN 3 3487010 JoanN, 400 isn't much when you compare it to 4000, which supposedly is what these 2 Chinese sisters churn out a day in their Queen's apartment basement. Yes, one rolls and the other wraps. As for a video of me rolling the wrappers...only if it's for laughs... :) I have to say though, that when the dough is the softer kind, you can actually go pretty fast using the no-rolling pin technique! Instead of the pin you use different parts of your palm, and various ways of applying pressure...maybe this is similar to the cleaver smash technique that Claudette is talking about. Wed Mar 12 17:10:12 -0700 2008 3483517 10422 HLing 1 3484392 Dough made with boiling water is a little softer and easier to work with than cold water. I use a food processor so the water can really be boiling, otherwise you can use a pair of chopsticks to mix the dough and then finish by hand. The resulting dumpling skin is more tender, you can definitely taste it in the finished product. Seems to make a larger difference for pan fried dumplings than any of the soup dumplings I've made, though. Let the dough rest for at least half an hour before cooking. Use a chinese rolling pin. They're basically a wooden dowel, and sell for a buck at any chinese grocery store. The chinese rolling pin is a lot easier to control than a typical french or american pin for dumplings. Just make a lump of dough, and roll it out as best you can into a circle or an oval. Any imperfections will be masked when you're forming the dumpling, so these things don't have to be perfect. This goes much, much faster if one person makes the skins while another fills and pinches the dumplings. Mom and I cranked out 100 or so in an hour, and I know it would've taken me much more than twice as long if I'd been doing it alone. My mom smacked me when I tried to use store bought skins for dumplings. She made me mix up the dough and make dumplings while she watched. The whining about "I'm hungry" and "let's go out instead" didn't work at all. I think I nearly got disinherited for violating some Chinese genetic coding. Gotta love mom for making me a hound. Wed Mar 12 01:04:52 -0700 2008 3473012 50333 tomishungry 2 3484411 i use a 50% boiling/50% room temperature water in the dough for my xiao long bao (soup dumplings). boiling water goes w/ ap flour and the room temp water goes w/ high gluten flour. i've read that the boiling water helps to develop the gluten in the ap flour thus resulting in a chewy, but not rubbery, texture. Wed Mar 12 01:43:41 -0700 2008 3484392 56183 soypower 3 3485020 When I make soup dumplings, I use a combination of boiling water and room temp too and it produces a very nice chewy, but not too heavy dough. It has taken many attempts(and I continue to work on the technique) to get an even dumpling skin that isn't too thick but holds together when cooking so that the broth doesn't leak out into the steaming water [sob!!] . I use a french rolling pin - seems easier to control the thickness of the dough. Making soup dumplings is A LOT of work, but it is worth every second, because they are fantastic. I freeze them - a perfect winter meal! Wed Mar 12 08:31:30 -0700 2008 3484411 50437 tartetatin 4 3485032 Sounds delicious--how do you prepare them once they've been frozen? Thaw them then steam them? ~TDQ Wed Mar 12 08:34:58 -0700 2008 3485020 12005 The Dairy Queen 5 3486053 I steam fresh ones for about 14 - 15 minutes in a bamboo steamer lined with napa cabbage if I have it, or lightly oiled parchment rounds if I don't. If I am making them from frozen, I steam them from frozen for longer, about 20 minutes. I steam them at medium heat for part of the time and then reduce the heat so they don't get pummelled by the steam at the end. Wed Mar 12 12:41:15 -0700 2008 3485032 50437 tartetatin 6 3486351 For frozen ones, I usually take them out of the freezer and let them sit on the kitchen counter for about an hour or so before steaming or boiling. It's easier on the dumplings and cuts down on the time in the steamer, or pot. Wed Mar 12 13:56:09 -0700 2008 3486053 11583 ipsedixit 2 3487474 Yes, gotta love those Chinese moms, although my Jewish and Italian friends tell me their moms are just the same. Wed Mar 12 20:31:13 -0700 2008 3484392 17220 Claudette 3 4322760 We use warm water (almost boiling) + flour (1:2 ratio) for our std dumpling dough. A combination of pork, shrimp, lots of napa cabbage, onions and kale, sesame oil + soy sauce for the filling. These freeze incredibly well - good thing as our 2 yr old girls request them for breakfast at least 3-4x a week. I put a few tablespoons of oil in a saute pan, arrange the dumplings in the pan single layer while heating over medium heat, then pour a cup of water over the dumplings(about halfway up the height of the dumplings) and cover. I take a peek after about 5-8 minutes and depending on how the dough looks (translucent vs dry), I may or may not add a touch more water. I move the pan around on the burner in the final minutes to get a nice even brown crust on the bottom. They come out perfect everytime! Our std dipping sauce is low sodium soy, black sesame oil, rice wine vinegar,and chopped ginger - I just eyeball the amts, but the list is in order of volume large to small. I like to add freshly chopped jalepenos to this. Tue Jan 13 12:34:32 -0800 2009 3487474 126412 gunksny