496189 Wed Mar 05 18:59:09 -0800 2008 22 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 3464430 I've eaten--and loved--artichokes all my life, first as a special treat growing up on the East Coast then as a biweekly pleasure as an adult living in the SFBA, not too long a drive from Castroville, at the edge of the Monterey Peninsula, where much of country's artichokes grow.. I certainly encountered Euro-style 'chokes now and again, more recently than in years past, but never cared for their bitterness and lack of meatiness. In the past couple of years though, without letting on, artichoke growers seem to have switched to a thornless variety--let's dub it "the checker's friend"--which, unless you examine it closely, looks much the same. The only readily noticeable difference is a split at the top of the leaves where the thorns are supposed to be. It also tends to be lightly tinged with purple. I've even been misled into buying this variety several times as a "starts," though they were clearly labeled "Globe." Of course, since life loves to play little jokes, they grow really well in my San Francisco garden, which means--as most gardeners will understand--I can't bring myself to pull them! But, alas, they lack the succulence and flavor of their eponymous predecessors. The only produce item I buy that is not organically raised is arts, because almost all the organic ones are the less-enjoyable, above-described variety. Now, even Trader Joe's formerly reliable "conventional" artichokes are this new kind. Let me make clear these are not organic, just a switch to the variety that previosuly was available only as organic. In our house we've always fought over the stems, which, when trimmed of the outer "skin," had the same flavor and almost the same texture as the delectable artichoke heart. The new kind's stems are stringier, and like the rest of the thistle, nowhere near as delectable. HELP! What's an artichoke-lover to do? Wed Mar 05 18:59:10 -0800 2008 11036 Fine 1 3464464 I've noticed those stringier stems and split leaf tips. Wasn't smart enough to know the difference....but NOW I am. Sneaky buggers. Wed Mar 05 19:16:34 -0800 2008 3464430 123480 scuzzo 2 3479787 I contacted Trader Joe's and Safeway. I encourage all of you who share the disappointment to complain to your local purveryors. Stores know that every complaint represents many who didn't bother. TJ's and Safeway of course have web sites where you may submit email. Most stores probably do. And, of course, it's always worthwhile to tell the local manager why you're not purchasing the artichokes you came to buy! Mon Mar 10 18:02:01 -0700 2008 3464464 11036 Fine 1 3470854 I live within 5 miles of Pezzini Farms artichoke stand and they still have the nutty, thorny, super delicious Globe. Have you noticed that those "thornless" ones have thinner, less mearty leaves and a thinner heart too? I think these may be the ones that are more convieniently (to the farmer) grown annually from seed rather than from divisions as the Globes are. When they first hit the market about 12 years ago, I complained mightily and the produce managers said I was one of many.. but the danged things keep on coming. I drive to Pezzini when I crave artichokes. Check out this site.. it's for the farmer-producer and it touts the convenience.. but not the flavor of the seed hybrids: http://www.actahort.org/members/showpdf?booknrarnr=660_8 Fri Mar 07 14:45:26 -0800 2008 3464430 172760 fromagina 1 3470983 I thought I was the only one who noticed! I asked at my local market and they claimed they really were the "globe" variety, but clearly they are not. Interestingly, I often find the two mixed together, as if they really aren't differentiating between them. But yeah, if it doesn't have thorns, I'm not buying it! I still find the real thing at farmer's markets -- there's a vendor at the San Leandro Farmer's markets who comes up from Wastonville/Castroville and has gorgeous artichokes for reasonable prices. Fri Mar 07 15:20:01 -0800 2008 3464430 10159 Ruth Lafler 1 3472490 Fine, thanks for explaining something I have noticed as well. Unfortunately, here in Central Ohio, we are at the mercy of our grocery store chains. Artichokes cost around $3/ea and we haven't bought any in a while because of the problems you described. We love the hearts especially and its frustrating to spend a small fortune on 4 chokes only to discover NO hearts. Our favorite is very simply steam chokes served cold with mayo/sour cream/yogurt sauce with thyme & dill. Sat Mar 08 08:55:08 -0800 2008 3464430 15139 Diane in Bexley 2 3473114 You're not being that badly done in Ohio, they're not much cheaper here in CA. I prefer mine steamed with a mayo/garlic/soy sauce dip. Sat Mar 08 12:45:02 -0800 2008 3472490 10784 Scrapironchef 3 3480107 $1/ea at Alemany farmers market or 4/$4 at Trader Joes (iirc) Mon Mar 10 20:02:37 -0700 2008 3473114 79880 xanadude 4 3480933 Ha-ha! Several years ago we visited the San Francisco/Carmel area, prime artichoke growing country. We looked like immigrant refugees boarding our airplane home, because both DH & I had large grocery bags full of $1 chokes. Can you send some my way? Tue Mar 11 07:02:01 -0700 2008 3480107 15139 Diane in Bexley 2 3475399 Truly, I'm not gloating because I'm sure you have Ohio specialties I'd moan for, but I live 4 miles from Castroville "The Artichoke Capital of the World" and can buy artichokes the size of acorn squash for from $1.50 to $2.50 (depending on time of year) at the farm stands. Of course, within a few miles of one of those stands you can buy one of those flimsy tasteless from-seed 'chokes at Safeway for $3.00 if you wish. A benefit of living so close to the source is the variety of sizes I can buy. I'll buy a few pounds of goose egg-sized 'chokelets and snap off the leaves and cook the little hearts in many different dishes. My favorites for everyday eating are the fist-sized 'chokes at from 39 cents to 69 cents apiece. When we have a frost, local 'choke lovers rush to Pezzini's to buy the "frost bit" 'chokes with their slightly scalded outer leaves. The frost brings out a truly delectable sweetness! We prefer steamed but our dips vary with whim. Lemon butter is lovely.. plain balsamic vinegar is lovely.. homemade garlic mayo or just plain mayo works for us too. We have artichokes at least once a week because we CAN! Sun Mar 09 12:55:59 -0700 2008 3472490 172760 fromagina 3 3479975 I moved from Minnesota to Southern CA. One of the greatest things are those roadside markets with great local fresh produce. I do binge on 'Chokes when they are in season and cheap. I steam mine in the microwave. I put one in a glass bowl. Add about 1inch of water, seal tightly with a good plastic wrap, then nuke for 5-7 minutes depending on size of 'Choke. Some of you will scoff, no doubt, at my use of the microwave. I use the microwave rarely, but it does a good job steaming Artichokes! And you can start eating them MUCH quicker, which is very important. Garlic and butter is my standard. Mon Mar 10 19:15:46 -0700 2008 3475399 123480 scuzzo 4 3480447 I microwave them too--maybe try adding a little lemon juice to the water as well. Mon Mar 10 22:53:04 -0700 2008 3479975 79880 xanadude 5 3481165 Good idea! Tue Mar 11 07:59:26 -0700 2008 3480447 123480 scuzzo 5 3482025 The old timey trick that keeps the cooking water from turning green and staining the pot is to splash a dollop of vinegar into the water. never thought to use lemon! I'm glad to see that everyone here steams (in one for or another). In the bad-old-days people boiled the poor things. I can steam 4 softball-sized 'chokes in a pot in 25 minutes. Next time I'll toss some lemon slices into the water. That polishes up the pot too. Tue Mar 11 10:47:27 -0700 2008 3480447 172760 fromagina 6 3482735 If I just have one, I do it in the microwave; if I have more, I use the big steamer. I always cringe at the recipes that call for your to completely immerse them in water (and usually call for weighting them down with a plate). That a good recipe for soggy, waterlogged artichokes. My Mom always used a sort of half-and-half method: she stood the artichokes in a large pot, standing on on their bottoms in just enough water to immerse the heart. So the leaves steamed and the heart got a bit more heat. Add lemon and a couple of cloves of garlic to the water. Tue Mar 11 13:30:22 -0700 2008 3482025 10159 Ruth Lafler 7 3483771 If you've got a pressure cooker, pressure-steaming is a quick and easy way to go. A few tablespoons of water in the bottom, chokes on a rack, 10 or so minutes at 15 psi depending on size. Tue Mar 11 19:07:37 -0700 2008 3482735 58743 alanbarnes 4 3481259 I also steam artichokes in the microwave. But there's no need to put in a bowl with water. Just wrap each artichoke in plastic wrap and zap about 4 minutes for one, 6 minutes for two, letting them stand for about 3 minutes before unwrapping. Tue Mar 11 08:15:26 -0700 2008 3479975 11407 JoanN 5 3482655 Cool, I'll try the bowl-less method next time!!! Tue Mar 11 13:10:04 -0700 2008 3481259 123480 scuzzo 1 3482089 wow. ok. so it's not all in my head. the last couple times i had artichokes, they were SO BLAND! arts are a treat for us up north, as they are not exactly cheap most of the time. i hate being disappointed like that. ugh. apparently its happening everywhere now...sheesh. Tue Mar 11 11:01:17 -0700 2008 3464430 171576 dani_k 1 3483679 Darn you guys! All this talk of artichokes made me break down and buy one of those crappy ones. Actually it wasn't too bad, just not great. But I DID tell the produce manager to get Globes. Plus I emailed both Trader Joe's and Von's about the issue. Tue Mar 11 18:39:24 -0700 2008 3464430 123480 scuzzo 2 3512601 I want to underline that the "new" chokes are still called Globes, so one has to be more detailed with complaints. That's what got this whole string started. I kept buying "starts" for my garden clearly labeled Globe Artichoke and what grew were the thornless, low-meat, less "artichoke-y tasting" variety. I'm guess there's some business reason for the change, but customers must raise hell before the old ones just disappear or the seeds get bought up by some corporation, as happened to thousands of old-time varieties and gave birth to Seed Savers Exchange and other such seed-and-crop preserving groups. Thu Mar 20 16:33:58 -0700 2008 3483679 11036 Fine 3 3514419 Melanie told me recently that there are subvarieties of Globe artichokes and the one you want is the Green Globe. This is an interesting article on wikipedia -- I think that the statement the "Green Globe is virtually the only kind grown commercially in the U.S." is contradicted (as often happens on wikipedia, due to the way information is added) by the following paragraphs about new cultivars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artichoke Fri Mar 21 09:26:45 -0700 2008 3512601 10159 Ruth Lafler 1 3486228 Thanks for bringing this to our attention- I recently cooked up some artichokes and could NOT figure out what was wrong with them... it was such a waste of time ultimately because there was nothing to eat from the leaves. Wed Mar 12 13:28:19 -0700 2008 3464430 139194 lhb78