Wines to Cellar?
I'd like some input, from those more knowledgeable than me, on wines to lay down for 5/10 years, or however long. In other words, what wines would benefit hugely from cellaring? The idea, I guess, is to try to determine what wines I can buy right now (at a reasonable price -- say, less than $30) that will blow back whatever hair I have left when they're ready. Many thanks!
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I think that you are, perhaps, expecting too much from the miracle of aging. Great young wine may age into great old wine, good young wine into good old wine, but seldom does good wine age into great wine - Silk purses are not made from sow's ears That is to say that in my experience aging does not improve the overall quality of a wine, but rather changes the aromatic and flavor characteristics, balance, and texture - often in a lovely way. "Blowing your hair back" might be a tall order.
Having said that, there are many wines that would develop nicely in the 5-10 year range that are available at $30 and under. The 2004 vintage in Bordeaux has suffered by comparison to the 2005, but presents some excellent wines in your price range (I just picked up Calon Segur at $29.99). The great Bugundies of 2005 will be well out of your range, but check out some of the "lesser" appellations, particularly the Cote Chalonnais for some good values, and you may be able to find some of the super (I think) 2004 whites discounted to make way for the '05's.
From Italy consider the 2004 vintage for Chianti Classico and the 2003 Produttori Dei Barbareso, a year in which the cooperative declassified their crus, and made a first rate DOCG wine.
Others have mentioned the 04 and 05 German Rieslings, many of which are good bets - even the "little" wines develop nicely - Have had good experiences with Donhoff's Estate Riesling, which set me back just $18
Someone else suggested 1/2 bottles of Sauternes, which I'd like to second - even in less than stellar vintages, these wines develop beautifully.
Good quality N/V Champages are fun to cellar as well
Lastly, consider the road less travelled - Savennieres, Chinon, Bandol, Gigondas, Hunter Semillion, and the like.
Aging wine is a bit of a gamble, but the duds ( and there will be duds!) serve to make the successes stand out.
Good luck!
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At your price points there aren't a great number of options, but there are a few good ones:
1) Good quality (mid-priced) tempranillos in GREAT vintage years. The 2001, 2004, 2005 Riojas are uniformly quite excellent. You may be able to find some 2001 riservas near your price range, for example, and that's prolly your best "cellaring" option in red wines in the $30 range, IMO.
2) Great german rieslings...2004 and especially 2005's. Look for mid-ripeness... spatlese about perfect. These can turn into ambrosia in 5 to 10 years.
3) A little thinner pickings, but you can find some really nice Barossa shiraz near your range. Ask your wine vendors what they have in 2001, 2002, and 2005's. Worth it to push to 40 or so here.... very ageworthy wines.
4) Some nice sauternes half bottles can fit your range. Look for non-trophy bottles from 2001, 2003, and 2005.
See... there's a nice white, two nice reds, and a delicious dessert wine all worthy of cellaring and quite focused and predictable, IMO....
5) Lastly, there's some outstanding california zinfandel under $30 that's just awesome wine, but zin sometimes won't stretch to 10 years, so I hesitate to recommend it here. Also it's very vintage specific because thinner years have that alcohol blast without much of a fruit reward.... and there's so many different zin growing regions... but once you learn your way around the zin maze, it's a great bet too.
Enjoy.
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This is -- for me -- a distinctly difficult question. What is the point (for example) in telling you that Vintage Porto will age quite well, IF you hate Porto . . .
You see what I'm saying? It would help to know something about the kind of wines you like -- unless you're just doing this for investment purposes, and I wouldn't recommend that.
Secondly, these is no "blanket" rule. Some Cabernets will improve with age; some won't. Some Pinot Noirs will improve with age; some won't. Some Chardonnays will improve with age; some won't. Some Rieslings will improve with age; some won't. Some Zinfandels will improve with age; some won't. Some Syrahs will improve with age; some won't. Some Petite Sirahs will improve with age; some won't. Some Chenin Blancs will improve with age; some won't. Some Sauvignon Blancs will improve with age; some won't. Some Sémillons will improve with age; some won't. Some Nebbiolos will improve with age; some won't. Some Sangioveses will improve with age; some won't. Some Tempranillos will improve with age; some won't. Some Gamays will improve with age; some won't. Some Roussannes will improve with age; some won't . . . and so on and so on and so on . . . .
AND all that is true REGARDLESS of where the grapes were grown. In other words, some California Cabernets will improve with age; others won't. But this is also true for Australian Cabernets, French Cabernets (in other words, red Bordeaux), Italian Cabernets, New Zealand Cabernets, Chilean Cabernets . . . .
So, in order to get some SPECIFIC recommendations, I need some more info from you as to what you like, don't like, etc., etc.
Cheers,
Jason›3 Replies-
re: zin1953
I don't NOT like anything wine-wise. That being said, I lean toward red wines -- mostly Cotes du Rhone but been exploring Italian varietals of late (think aglianico, etc.). My wife, on the other hand, loves her white wine. She'd love nothing more than to drink a bottle of white burgundy on a more regular basis. Since that's not in the financial cards, she regularly favors dryish whites (verdicchio, French chablis, sauvignon blanc, etc.) and hates unctuous California chardonnays and is only slowly warming up to Alsatian rieslings. Hope this isn't too utterly vague to be helpful!
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re: Spot
Based on your post above, I'd suggest you take a look at the Rhone wines of Chapoutier, Guigal, and others to see what fits into your price range. There should be some Cornas, Cote Roties and even Hermitages you will be able to cellar... Chateauneuf-du-Pape has gotten popular, but there are still some great values there. you would do well to get a couple of cases of 05's -- from almost anyone! These are gonna be real keepers.
But even tho you don't mention Bordeaux or Burgundy, you should probably start to get a few of those, as well... on down the pike you are likely to find that you adore either one or the other of those, and it will be too late to get any "older" vintages. You pretty much need to make your own!
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A few questions will help:
a) what kind of cellaring facility you have
b) how many bottles?
c) total budget?›11 Replies-
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re: Spot
So we're talking of a horizon of 90 cases, budget of $45,000 spread in 8 years. Nice plan. My first suggestion: spend same $$, but buy a case every TWO months for twice the money. Then you'll get into real cellaring territory. Splurge some quarters, and buy a case every three months.
Next issue is MT, not sure what latitude you have for buying out-of-state.
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re: RicRios
I would agree with this strategy! You'll have more leeway in the quality of cellar-worthy wines you can get. The other thing I would also suggest: don't feel compelled to only buy cases of wines. Sometimes, you have a chance to buy a special wine,but can't afford to buy a whole case. But it is still worth getting a few bottles anyhow. Or half cases.
I have never met anyone who had trouble filling their cellar eventually. I have met a lot of people who say "there is no way I will be able to finish all the wine in my collection". So rather than methodically collecting $30 bottle of wines, collect whatever your heart fancies, within your budget, but don't worry about filling the cellar. Instead, focus on what you like to drink that has some age on it (I am a huge fan of a well aged burgundy! And goodness knows, you can barely afford to buy it on release, let alone one with some age on it). I also try to balance my cellar for what I can drink now, what I want to drink in 5 years, and what I am hoping to drink in 10-20 years. I also look at what I like to eat and cook, and try to match my collection to that as well.
There are a lot of sites that give good suggestions of what to cellar, and how long. So find what you like to drink, and go from there.
In a post lower down, ChefJune makes an excellent point about buying some Bordeaux or Burgundy. Older vintages of these wines are astronomically expensive, and so I think she gives sage advice to at least get a few of these wines. In these cases, it may be worth getting just a few bottles to stay within budget. But it is worth having at least a few of these, as they are the classic cellar wines.
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re: brandygirl
Well, perhaps "lots" is not the most accurate word.
At risk of being kicked off this board, I will admit that I really like the Wine Spectator web site, they have a pretty broad wine rating section with good tasting notes and often a note about when the wine might be good to start drinking. It will often say "drink after 2009" or something like that, and I have found it to be a good starting point. If the wine is something very special, then I'll look around a bit more for tasting notes from other sources, and see what they say about recent tastings of that wine (google is our friend). I will also consult various vintage charts (oh now they will kick me off this board for sure) from different sources (WS and Hugh Johnson are my favorites) to compare when they think the wines from that vintage are ready to drink. Then, because the information is often conflicting, I try to take an educated guess about whether the bottle is ready or not. This is a gross oversimplification, but I have found the European critics like more age on their bottles than American critics (GULP....No projectile items please...)
The obvious cellar worthy wines are easy. There are a lot of articles, tasting notes, aging recommendations for wines from Bordeaux, for example, and it is very easy to know which ones are worthy of cellaring and when you can expect to drink them. Unfortunately they tend to be expensive also, so I'm not going to be filling my cellar with cases of these wines (but I always try to collect a few! Otherwise, when will I ever get a chance to try them with good aging?)
It gets harder the more obscure the wine is. I rely on various critics (again, two of my favorite sources are WS and Hugh Johnson) to point out cellar worthy wines that I might not be as familiar with. If I can find a tasting note on it somewhere on the worldwide web, great. If not, well then I take an educated guess and drink it when I feel like it might be ready. There are some wines that seem to do well with short-term cellaring (2-5 years) that tend to be more reasonably priced, and I don't fret too much over a wine that cost me $20-40, I just drink it and hope it is good. But if it is closed, well, chalk it up to experience.
It is an inexact science (term used very loosely). It is surprising how little information you can find on some wines. Sites like these where there are a lot of experienced tasters can be a useful resource. I also love going to tastings, and if the producer is there, even better, they may give you more first-hand info on how long the wine can age. Also, a good wine importer or consultant can be very helpful!
For me, wine is a fun hobby, so I try to keep it fun, and not to stress too much about the perfect time to drink a specific wine. So far, I've been pretty happy for the most part.
Perhaps some of our professional colleagues could give more specific advice on how they determine when to drink a wine and how long to cellar?
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re: moh
We don't. ;^)
It's all a GUESSTIMATE, albeit based upon experience:
"This 2016 vintage reminds me of the 1994 at the same stage of development. Given the 1994 reached its peak in 2009-2010, at 10 years of age, my 'guesstimate' is that this 2016 should be at its peak when it's 12-15 years of age . . . "
"At release, this 2010 seems like 1989 -- and the weather was somewhat similar, too. The 1989s didn't really age all that well; I'd be cautious about long-term aging of this 2010."
And so on . . . .
But remember: There are NO great wines, only great bottles of wine -- there are so many things that can affect wine as it ages, no two bottles really age identically.
Cheers,
Jason-
re: zin1953
Phew! That is encouraging! I feel a lot better about my haphazard attempts to learn about wines I have in my cellar. But the experience goes a long way, and that is why they pay you the big bucks as a professional, and that is why I pay the big bucks for advice! I guess it comes down to hedging your bets.
I guess that is why I like wine, no two bottles age identically. It is the excitement and anticipation of what will be that makes it such a magical drink. I like how wine evolves over the course of an evening, a year, a decade. That's what makes having a cellar a lot of fun, even if it is a smaller, limited selection like my own.
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re: zin1953
Cheque is in the mail :)))
But seriously, I consider this CH thing to be a real great find, I really appreciate the info that you and the other professionals are willing to share! It helps me get excited about wine, and want to try more and more. And if I were in your neck of the woods, I'd be supporting all of your businesses actively!
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