488675 Mon Feb 11 15:17:13 -0800 2008 30 34 Wine 0 3387228 I know there are so many requests like this, and I'm joining the club. We're having 4 couples over for dinner the day after Valentines Day and are having a bit of difficulty deciding what wines would be the best pairings. We do have a few ideas and would also like to know if they would work too... Tarragon Grilled Prawns, Spiced Honey Crisp Apple & Fennel Salad and a Honey Lemon Pepper Glaze - I thought a Reisling would go well, we have 2 Dr Loosen Erdener Treppchen 2006. Braised Collard Greens, Grilled Portobello Steak and Roasted Beets with Apple Cider Reduction and Balsamic Cream - I thought a Pinot Noir, perhaps even opening a Burgundy and an American Pinot Noir for a comparison. Roast Rack of "Viking" Lamb, Root Vegetable Risotto, Asparagus and a Shiitaki Mushroom Glace - I dunno know here, first thing I think of is a Cab... Chocolate Grand Mariner Truffles with Fresh Berries and White Chocolate Sauce - I have some Muscats, Moscato d'Asti, and (I just ran down to see what was there) a Freemark Abbey, Edelwein Gold, late harvest Johannisberg Reisling - which might be interesting. Any input would be appreciated! TIA Mon Feb 11 15:17:13 -0800 2008 90565 Cookiefiend 1 3387295 It sounds good to me. The only "change" I'd suggest is merely that my first thought when it came to the lamb was a Bordeaux with a high percentage of Merlot (i.e.: a St.-Emilion). The asparagus can be difficult, and the earthiness of the Bordeaux (vs. a California Merlot or Cabernet) can compliment to risotto. But I think your own pairings are fine. Mon Feb 11 15:35:39 -0800 2008 3387228 28122 zin1953 2 3387443 Thank you so much! I have a '99 Ch Pavie Decesse and a '99 Ch Angelus - both are St.-Emilion. Would you recommend one over the other? I haven't had either but I'm dying to try them. Reading the notes from Cellar Tracker and Wine Spectator makes the Ch Angelus sound a tad better. Mon Feb 11 16:13:03 -0800 2008 3387295 90565 Cookiefiend 3 3388151 Either one -- I'd be tempted to have the Pavie Decesse, and save the Angelus for when it's a 10-year old . . . Mon Feb 11 19:56:15 -0800 2008 3387443 28122 zin1953 1 3388477 TARRAGON GRILLED PRAWNS. There are several candidates here, and they would all work probably quite nicely: Chenin Blanc is "the" tarragon wine, so if the tarragon is particularly pronounced, this would be a very interesting match. Otherwise Sauvignon Blanc connects very well here with prawns and tarragon and S.B. is "the" fennel wine. Chardonnay also should be good to excellent with this dish... BUT, the wild card is the sweet element... the honey, apple, and honey lemon nuances... If those are very pronounced then perhaps the safest wine here is Riesling. BRAISED COLLARS etc.... I very much prefer a white wine here.... Pinot Blanc probably first choice given the connection to both beets and collards, but chardonnay will be very nice here too, especailly given the smoke/grilling element on the portobellos. As a twist, add a dollop of cheese selected for your target wine here.... Chevre is a classic match with both grilled portobellos and chardonnay. NOW, let's say you do the chardonnay here, well then back-track and eliminate chard for the prawn dish, this makes riesling a definite. BUT, you can also have the chard on the table with the prawns as well as the riesling as it matches both dishes... so you're really constructing quite a beautiful food & wine spread with multiple wine matches for each dish so your diners can compare a contrast the combos. LAMB, I'd definitely do cabernet here.... the bordeaux idea sounds fine too. Your 99's are a bit youngish honestly.... I'd prefer a little higher cab content personally but the key is a really nice luscious wine rather than the exact red varietal I think. Since it's a special meal any "special" rich red would be nice... brunello great, zinfandel great, cab great, merlot great, malbec great, a rich decanted shiraz would be really nice here, a special rioja riserva would be lovely... as an aside, given the mushroom sauce that points me a bit towards cab again.... But also, given the asparagus and root veggie risotto, leave the chardonnay on the table as a backup as it will probably match these side dishes quite well.. As for DESSERT.... i'd eliminate the LH riesling. The muscats look great... overall I'd probably go for a lighter version, the Moscato d'Asti has valentines written all over it, and you probably want a frizzy / sparkler for this meal, so that's probably the best match here, a great ending to the meal. Mon Feb 11 23:40:50 -0800 2008 3387228 42549 Chicago Mike 2 3388890 Hummm... Mr CF thought a Chardonnay would be best with the prawns, but I do think the sweetness from the honey will be best with a Reisling. We could open one, or more, of each (plenty of glasses here), see what works best and then have the Chard open to test with the collards as well. Good idea. On my Bordeaux - I have a few older (by a few years anyway) but they are not St.-Emilions and so I think may be more cab based - though for God's sake don't quote me, I'm just learning! They are: '94 Ch Lafite Rothschild, '94 and '96 Ch Leoville Barton, '96 Lynch Bages and '98 and '99 Ch Ducru Beaucaillou. Unfortunately those are my oldest wines (except for some Chappellet from the early '80's - they look scary) since we're relative newbies to wine. Thanks for your help! Tue Feb 12 06:47:21 -0800 2008 3388477 90565 Cookiefiend 3 3389328 Re the bordeaux... at one level they could still all be considered young. On the other hand those are mostly off-years so extra bottle development may be questionable... Your very best bottles are probably the two 96s, which could be superb, but are very likely to be too young UNLESS you have multiple bottles of each in which case you may wish to try one on this occasion just to gauge their progress. Decanting for an hour or more is definitely rec for them. The 94s are likely fading, not from a particularly good year, and probably need to be consumed. May not be the greatest wine, but could be nice with the meal, and by the time you get to the third course you're all going to be fairly "happy" anyway :) The best bottle that's ready to drink is probably the 99 Ducru from a pleasant, early-maturing vintage. Definitely agree about the prawns... if there's a fair amount of sweet in the flavors, riesling seems safest there. A rich, unctuous gewurztraminer would probably be quite nice with that dish also. Since you're going riesling why not add at least a hint of your favorite chili pepper to the dish! Tue Feb 12 08:44:48 -0800 2008 3388890 42549 Chicago Mike 1 3388527 Tarragon Grilled Prawns, Spiced Honey Crisp Apple & Fennel Salad and a Honey Lemon Pepper Glaze: White Bordeaux (Graves), Savennieres from the Loire, Rousanne, Marsanne are what first come to mind. The Graves and Savennieres, especially, would all complement the prawns, and the apple, fennel, tarragon and lemon. If there's a hint of sweetness in the dish, then the Spatlese Dr. Loosen you have might be nice. Though Rose Champagne would be delightful with this dish as well, especially if this is a Valentines Day celebration. Braised Collard Greens, Grilled Portobello Steak and Roasted Beets with Apple Cider Reduction and Balsamic Cream: With greens and mushrooms, either Chardonnay or Pinot Noir, but the beets and balsamic take this into red wine territory, so I agree with your choice of Pinot Noir. (And gosh, I almost never recommend Chardonnay because other white wines awaken the palate more successfully.) Roast Rack of "Viking" Lamb, Root Vegetable Risotto, Asparagus and a Shiitaki Mushroom Glace: The Cab would work well. Especially with a touch of Merlot blended in. The root vegetable flavors will fill in the mid-range of flavors the Cabernet lacks, so the recipe seems almost tailor-made for Cab. Chocolate Grand Mariner Truffles with Fresh Berries and White Chocolate Sauce: The Edelwein Gold. In my experience with botrytised wines (I am serious student of dessert wines!), I've found they pair extremely well with orange, white chocolate and berries. I've enjoyed those foods and botrytised wines often, even at some wineries, and they've always worked together very well. Though I'm not the hugest fan of botrytised wines with chocolate, here the accompanying flavors tip the wine pairing towards the botrytised Edelwein Gold. By the way, Freemark Abbey is just down the road from me, and several of their wines, especially the Cabernet Bosche, are excellent. Oh, I should add I'm not a big fan of bubbly with dessert -- I think it's often harsh and unpleasant with a sweet dessert. And I prefer my guests to have their Champagne buzz at the beginning of the meal, rather than at its conclusion. Tue Feb 12 01:01:36 -0800 2008 3387228 18222 maria lorraine 2 3388911 We'll be starting with Champagne, it always gets a party started the right way. :-) We were on the Freemark Abbey members list thingy for a few years but somehow we aren't any longer. We enjoyed their wines and I'm pretty sure that's how I got the Edelwein - as part of that club thing. I should call them to find out what happened. Thanks maria lorraine! Tue Feb 12 06:53:56 -0800 2008 3388527 90565 Cookiefiend 3 3390220 If you're starting with a champagne, look for one that may have the added advantage of matching your honey prawns wonderfully... I'd go sweeter than Brut.... at least Sec.... Tue Feb 12 12:04:23 -0800 2008 3388911 42549 Chicago Mike 4 3390711 I only have Bruts in the cellar but I could run out before Friday to pick one or two up. Would you have a suggestion for one - and it would be fun too if it were a rose... if there is such a thing... Hopefully I could find one... there are probably only 2 stores locally that would have a decent selection! Thanks Chicago Mike for all your help! Tue Feb 12 13:56:51 -0800 2008 3390220 90565 Cookiefiend 5 3391970 hey cookie... go with your local store(s) and ask them what they'd rec. in a sec or demi-sec that would match your prawn dish. There are alot more demis on the market so ask for one on the drier end of the demi-sec scale for this dish. Tue Feb 12 20:11:17 -0800 2008 3390711 42549 Chicago Mike 1 3388610 skip the asparagus in the risotto (keep it as simple as possible) and and get a good Côte du Rhone (Chateauneuf du pape). Tue Feb 12 04:04:52 -0800 2008 3387228 11828 Maximilien 1 3394113 <Roast Rack of "Viking" Lamb, Root Vegetable Risotto, Asparagus and a Shiitaki Mushroom Glace - I dunno know here, first thing I think of is a Cab... > when I see "Shiitake Mushroom" my brain goes straight to Burgundy! Red, of course. not sure why you're planning asparagus, but it seems kinda like a duck out of water. It's a springtime veggie, and the rest of your dish is saying "Winter." You really don't need another veggie in here. You have the veggie course above. Balsamic is not particularly good with Pinot Noir... actually, most vinegars compete with, not complement wine. For your dessert pairing, it's very important that your dessert is not sweeter than the wine. Wed Feb 13 12:06:43 -0800 2008 3387228 52499 ChefJune 2 3394200 That's true - the dish does say 'winter', it's more of a color thing and a little bit of a joke. One of our guests says that everytime he has dinner at the club, there is always asparagus as the vegetable... Silly I know, but everyone will get a kick out of this. There will only be a little bit of asparagus since we do have the other course of greens. Would you suggest a chardonnay like Chicago Mike and Maria Lorraine instead of a Pinot Noir to go with the greens? It was the mushroom that suggested the Pinot to me, but I am totally up to suggestions. I spoke to a friend of mine regarding the dessert wine choice - she suggested I serve a port or a late harvest Zin.... I still like the idea of the moscato d'asti though. thanks for your input ChefJune! Wed Feb 13 12:27:36 -0800 2008 3394113 90565 Cookiefiend 3 3394297 I like the asparagus joke. I have an ongoing joke with some Italian friends about wild asparagus, the very skinny asparagus that looks a bit like haricots verts. But, serve your asparagus separately, maybe as an appetizer to kick things off to a fun start, in individual spears that you pick up with your fingers and eat. Perhaps a tempura, served with bubbly. That would be nice. Yes, I think Pinot Noir would be wonderful with the portobello dish. PN and mushrooms are a classic match. And though ChefJune makes many good suggestions, I will disagree with her about balsamic. It merges with wine -- it's made from cooked grape juice, then is aged in wood barrels, much like wine, so there are many flavor commonalities. Especially with balsamico traditionale, the expensive aged stuff, and with a balsamic reduction, the syrup that's formed when inexpensive balsamic vinegar is reduced to a third of its volume. Something to which many Italians would attest. Just watch how much balsamic and apple cider vinegar you add, so the dish isn't too tart and acidic. But it seems the cream will mollify any acidic effect anyway. I don't recommend a Chardonnay with the portobello dish, BTW. It's rare I recommend Chardonnay. White Burgundy, yes. As far as dessert, I chose from what you listed as having. Yes, Port would work, as would late harvest Zin (I like the Bella), as would the Edelwein that you have. A Pedro Ximenez dessert sherry would pick up on the orange and chocolate nicely, as would a Muscat liqueur, not Muscat wine per se. As mentioned, I'm not a fan of Moscato d'Asti with dessert; I think it's harsh and unpleasant with dessert. The reason is that it doesn't follow the classic dessert pairing rule that Chef June mentions: that the wine must be sweeter than the dessert or the wine tastes sour. Wed Feb 13 12:50:49 -0800 2008 3394200 18222 maria lorraine 4 3394771 I'm sorry Maria Lorraine - I miss-read your earlier post regarding the Chardonnay... oop! Thanks for the tip on the balsalmic, I do think the cream will help tone down an acidic over-kill. At least I hope so or I'll have to whip up another sauce asap! I had not heard of the 'wine must be sweeter than the dessert or the wine tastes sour' rule, but it does make sense. Last week in FL, I had a Campbell Tokay (?) with a cheese tray and it was marvelous. The cheese pulled the honey taste forward in the wine. Thanks again! Wed Feb 13 14:46:17 -0800 2008 3394297 90565 Cookiefiend 4 3395760 the key to matching muscat and chocolate is pretty simple.... the darker the chocolate, the richer the muscat... SO, in general, your white and milk chocs are going to be best with d'Astis, your mid-range chocs with a beaumes de venise, and your more intense chocolates with liqueur muscat, quady blends, etc. but this is just a rule of thumb... that's one of the great things about muscat, there's a variety to match the entire chocolate spectrum. One of the reasons I especially like it here is the triangulation with the berries which also match splendidly, especially with lighter muscats. Wed Feb 13 20:06:30 -0800 2008 3394297 42549 Chicago Mike 2 3395697 i certainly like pinot with mushrooms and truffle, but the main dish here is still rack of lamb. cabernet and nebbiolo are also great "mushroom" wines and match the lamb better, IMO.... again, just my palate... Wed Feb 13 19:43:30 -0800 2008 3394113 42549 Chicago Mike 3 3396931 We're going with a cabernet and possibly a bordeau with the lamb - the pinot wouldn't stand up to it. The pinot's going with the collards and mushrooms. The only nebbiolo I have that might even be remotely ready to drink, is a '97 Pio Cesare... I'll run it past Mr CF and see what he thinks - how much decanting would it need? Thu Feb 14 08:34:40 -0800 2008 3395697 90565 Cookiefiend 4 3397097 Cookie.... So I'm trying to re-cap your planning to this point: 1) Prawns with.... is it riesling or Champagne ? 2) Collards, beets and porto bello steak... is this Pinot Noir, perhaps two for comparison? (as an aside, this probably isn't a pinot-focused enough dish to use for a horizontal pinot experience) 3) Lamb & shittake... seems like you've settled on cab or bordeaux here. 4) Chocolate / berry / grand marnier dessert and.... ? NOW.... one thing I notice is that you're a bit heavy on the reds here. One champagne, which could be white or rose, then it's all red from there. Why not have a white "option" that gets at least as far along as your second dish ? With that objective in mind you could do: 1) Champagne and chardonnay with the Prawns, then keep the chardonnay on the table when you bring out the collards and the accompanying pinot noir. So you'd have "the great wines of burgundy" (chardonnay and pinot noir) with your collards & portobellos. 2) Champagne and riesling with the prawns, keeping the riesling (or the champagne for that matter) on the table when you bring out the collards and pinot ? Now, there's a food/wine matching quandry here. The quandry is that champagne is so heavily chardonnay to begin with, that I've found "champagne and chardonnay" to be sort of a narrower and less interesting spectrum than champagne and something else... riesling in this case. The flipside of the quandry is that chardonnay is probably at least a bit better match for your collards dish than riesling, although riesling isn't necessarily bad with it. Decisions decisions.... from the point of view of "total wine spectrum" experience I find riesling more interesting, from the point of view of "consistent match with food", perhaps chardonnay a bit better. The good news they are two excellent choices really. Personally I'd probably go with the Champagne and riesling to start because of the wider flavor spectrum that permits. Now, here is really the way to have "the best of both worlds". Serve a BLANC de BLANCS champagne and riesling with the Prawns !! This way you have a pure chardonnay (the b be b) with the prawns, and the delicious spectrum-increasing riesling. You also could go with just a regular-dosage b de b because you have the somewhat sweeter riesling to allow a sweetness component to the experience of the prawns! THEN you can keep the champagne on the table when you bring out the collards dish ! Serve champagne and pinot alongside the collards. Now, you take this dish into the stratosphere by triangulating it with the single-greatest cheese that matches BOTH the blanc de blancs and the pinot noir superbly.... Chevre. Add a dollop of chevre to the middle of the portobello steaks and serve the dish with pinot noir and a 100% chardonnay champagne... the flavors of this are incredible. Now you have an enhanced wine spectrum plus white wine options through the full first half of the meal. Thu Feb 14 09:13:19 -0800 2008 3396931 42549 Chicago Mike 5 3397312 Chicago Mike - I appreciate all the effort you've gone to! I am a bit heavy on the reds... but here's my sort of plan: The champagne is just to start the evening - I'll probably have a bit of cheese and nuts out. We're making chocolate truffles, a tiny cooking lesson for the ladies and the champagne is just for fun. Ten to one though, everyone will probably bring the champagne glasses to the table anyway - so that will be there as well. I'm thinking of the reisling and the chard for the shrimp and then leaving the chard out for the collards as a taste comparision with the pinot. However since, as you say, champagne is mostly chardonnay anyway... I could just pop another bottle (or 2) instead of the chardonnay and have all the bases covered. I have no problem with drinking champagne through an entire dinner :-) That's an even better plan - I like it. Thu Feb 14 10:01:05 -0800 2008 3397097 90565 Cookiefiend 6 3397334 Cookie, the thought you've put into planning this meal will really pay dividends for your guests... they couldn't find as nice a meal at most restaurants honestly :) Thu Feb 14 10:05:43 -0800 2008 3397312 42549 Chicago Mike 7 3397477 Thanks Chicago Mike - that's high praise indeed! They are good friends and we're all learning about wine, it's a lot of fun :-) Thu Feb 14 10:38:20 -0800 2008 3397334 90565 Cookiefiend 1 3395932 Your initial post indicates you will have at least 8 people, if not 10, for dinner. Plenty of people to open 2 bottles of wine for each course. So no need for the collards greens/mushroom wine to also be the wine for the lamb/risotto/mushroom glace main course. Wed Feb 13 21:27:48 -0800 2008 3387228 18222 maria lorraine 2 3397000 There's 10 for dinner, we're planning on opening several bottles. Starting with champagne - not sure if Duval Leroy or Bruno Palliard. A Dr Loosen Reisling and either a Leeuwin Chardonnay or a Newton Unfiltered Chardonnay for the shrimp. I have no idea on the pinot yet... still debating, but one will be American and one will be French. Not sure on the cabernet yet (Mr CF will decide at the last minute), the Bordeaux will be the '94 Leoville Barton. Chicago Mike suggested a Nebbiolo, I have one, a '97 Pio Cesare that might be ready - if I decant early... And for the dessert - I really like moscato d'asti, but I do have port and muscat as well. So I'm still deciding on this one. Tommorrow is the big day! Thu Feb 14 08:52:34 -0800 2008 3395932 90565 Cookiefiend 1 3408684 Thanks everyone for your help! This is what we went with: Champagne - we opened Duval Leroy and Vueve Cliquot, we went ahead and opened another Vueve since it went well with the shrimp and collard greens too. Champagne is such a wonderful thing! 1st course - Dr. Loosen Erdener Treppchen Riesling Auslese 2002, this was wonderful both with the shrimp and the 2nd course. 2nd course - Louis Jadot Pommard 2000, I didn't like this - maybe it needed to open. We opened an '04 Etude pinot noir, and I didn't like it any better. So I was so glad we still had the reisling and the champagne to drink with it. Several of our guests thought the Pommard was fine, but I found it too harsh/tannic. I just don't understand burgundies yet. Although I know this bottle may not have been a stellar example... 3rd course - we opened the 1996 Leoville Barton first and again, I didn't care for it. We should have opened it much earlier than we did because it was better the next day. So we opened a 1999 Insignia and it was marvelous, as always. Dessert - we opened the Freemark Abbey Edelwein Gold, I was happy with it and thought it went well with the chocolate truffles and fruit. All in all, I think most of the choices were good, I would not open the Pinot Noirs though if I did it again and I would decant the bordeaux in the late afternoon. Thanks again! Mon Feb 18 06:40:03 -0800 2008 3387228 90565 Cookiefiend 2 3411686 Cookie what a great post... we can really learn alot from your comments and experience. Here's what I note: 1) Re: Champagne... you didn't say if these were Brut, Extra-Brut, Rose, blanc de blancs, whatever... would be very interesting to know. 2) The Riesling. Notice you serve an AUSLESE here and love it. Now, alot of posters (myself included) would probably not rec an auslese off the bat... but your tasting notes are just proof that whenever you're doing riesling with an appropriate dish there will be diners who's palates will prefer quite a range of different ripenesses. You'll have someone loving the kab more, the spat more, the auslese more, etc. etc.... and at the end of the day, it's all riesling. We had similar tete-a-tete regarding this on the Seville Orange and Cumin Chicken thread... 3) I'm not surprised that the Pinot never worked with the collards and portobellos... this is really a white-wine favoring dish, IMO, and notice that both your riesling and your champagne were nice matches for it. Again, would be very interesting to note the specific varieties/dosages of champagne those were. 4) that your bordeaux benefitted from HOURS of decanting... time and time again we see that very concentrated / structured reds don't get enough decanting time.... alot of valuable info in your notes, IMO. TY. Mon Feb 18 21:53:04 -0800 2008 3408684 42549 Chicago Mike 3 3412159 Hi Chicago Mike ~ All the champagnes were bruts. I did go to the local wine store and I looked for an Extra Dry and/or a Demi Sec when it occured to me that I had pushed the Mr CF envelope by insisting on the Reisling and since we already had quite a bit of champagne in the cellar anyway - maybe I'll just chill on the sweeter champagne. But I gotta confess, I really wanted a rose, since we were celebrating Valentines Day. The reisling choice was based on something I had read (Hedonist in the Cellar) and a glass of Dr Loosen I had while waiting for a meeting to end one evening. That glass of wine was marvelous. Would you have stayed away from an Auslese and recommended a Kabinet instead - may have been less sweet? As it turned out though - I did really like the Auslese and I think everyone else did too, at least none of the glasses went back to the kitchen full - and that's a good thing. Any rules of thumb to follow on decanting? We opened and decanted those bordeaux at 5:30, it was probably around 8:30 when we poured and it was still not ready. In December we opened a 1998 Pavillion Rouge and then tried it right away, in an hour, in 2 hours and then finally after 3 hours it had turned into a lovely wine. How do you know (banging my head on the desk here) how far in advance to decant? I don't even get started on the mass confusion of Burgundy, but, was the Pommard a bad example of burgundy, was it too young, was it in it's 'dumb' stage or was I? I think you are correct in that a Pinot/Burgundy was just not a good choice for the dish in the first place. Thanks for your help CM! Tue Feb 19 06:43:23 -0800 2008 3411686 90565 Cookiefiend 4 3412325 >>> maybe I'll just chill on the sweeter champagne. But I gotta confess, I really wanted a rose, since we were celebrating Valentines Day. <<< Just to be clear, most Rosé Champagnes ARE Brut -- Extra Dry, Demi-Sec and Doux Champagnes are white. >>> How do you know (banging my head on the desk here) how far in advance to decant? <<< Educated guess, based upon the specific wine (e.g.: Léoville Barton, Pavillion Rouge, etc.), the character of the vintage itself (e.g.: hard and tannic, soft and early-maturing, etc.), and the present age of the wine itself. >>> was the Pommard a bad example of burgundy, was it too young, was it in it's 'dumb' stage or was I? <<< 2000 was one of the weaker, early maturing vintages for red Burgundy from the Côte de Beaune in the last 10-15 years. The wines were -- to generalize here for a moment -- better upon first release than they are now. The better examples are still fine, but this was never more than a "decent" (as opposed to "great" or "outstanding") vintage to begin with. Cheers, Jason Tue Feb 19 07:32:47 -0800 2008 3412159 28122 zin1953 5 3412794 I did not know that the Extra Dry, Demi-Sec and Doux Champagnes were white only. Based on 2000 being one of the weaker and earlier maturing red Burgundy years - should I assume that I should go ahead and start drinking the remaining 2000s? I have 3, 2000 Jadot Charmes-Chambertins. The extent of my knowledge is: "weighty attitude and paradoxical perfumed edge", regarding the region, and "stick with the best vintners" regarding, well, the vintner. Not very much and certainly open for interpretation, but I had to start somewhere if I wanted to learn. Tue Feb 19 09:15:23 -0800 2008 3412325 90565 Cookiefiend