487975 Sat Feb 09 13:39:51 -0800 2008 46 41 Cookware 0 3380838 I am in the market for some new every day dishes and I don't want to spend a fortune. But I am struck that everything I've seen at a low cost or reasonable prices is made in China and I am concerned about toxicity and safety for food service (I've researched the issue a lot on the web and those who haven't ought to--it is scary) A friend recently bought a lovely set of white Martha Stewart dishware, and while I love the design, they too come from China. I presently have some nice white dishware that I bought 10 years ago at Willaims-Sonoma, not made in China, but it has seen better days, and even W.S. has lots from China now. I am looking for white dishes again in classic style--no frills and reasonably priced. I'd like to be sure they are safe to use and my first preference would be American made (and I don't want Fiestaware)--next choice would be made somewhere that has safety standards in place for what can be sold for food service. Any suggestions? Sat Feb 09 13:39:51 -0800 2008 69011 liveforfood 1 3381417 How about Corelle? Sat Feb 09 18:07:53 -0800 2008 3380838 12139 paulj 1 3381457 I think we're getting crazy here. Not everything made in China is tainted. If you were to go around your house and clothing and get rid of everything made in China, you'd have a lot of empty spaces. What are you worried about with the white MS dishware? Lead? You can buy a very inexpensive lead tester. Or email Martha and ask if they've tested it. Sat Feb 09 18:23:30 -0800 2008 3380838 28006 Jennalynn 2 3381474 http://blogs.consumerreports.org/safety/2007/10/testing-the-lea.html Sat Feb 09 18:29:40 -0800 2008 3381457 75332 Gio 2 3383188 Of course, I do realize that not everything made in china is tainted, but there is no way to know, because a lot of the ceramics from China do have high levels of lead (see US consumer affairs) and glazing/firing processes that are not up to US standards and do not prevent toxins from leaching into food. This is why many dishware items from china are not diswasher, microwave, or oven safe. Also, many of these items are not safe to serve acidic or hot foods, like salad dressings and soups. While it may seem a "little crazy" to be so concerned about this, frankly, I am. As a mother, I do not want to take risks, especially when it comes to the potential for contaminating food with lead or whatever else when there are other options to avoid this risk, even if some may think it is small (I happen to think it is not small, from the research I have done on the topic). I am also careful about other products I purchase and I do avoid those very tempting-to-buy inexpensive clothing, bedding, candles, toiletries, toys, etc. made in china and I choose other items I can be more certain are safe for my family. I do have a lead tester. I have also contacted companies like Crate & Barrel and Pottery Barn through e-mail to ask about items made in china that may have lead and I have not received any responses. Safety issue aside, I have other concerns about relying on products from China so heavily, either as an individual or as a society. Our economy has suffered greatly for this and I just hope that people will think twice about what they buy from china and make efforts to support U.S. manufacturers--for safety and economic reasons. Sun Feb 10 13:04:20 -0800 2008 3381457 69011 liveforfood 3 3384014 Although I appreciate your concerns about cheap products from overseas, there are also many things of excellent quality produced by our trading partners. Similarly, not everything Made in America is of the quality we might like it to be. Unfortunately, we can manufacture some real crap in this country as well. I think it's important to purchase from reputable companies when we buy things that we are going to eat from or cook in. Lead and other things can leach out into the food we eat if the glazes are improperly applied or are defective in some way. A cheap vase for some flowers - maybe. A cereal bowl for my kids - no way! Sun Feb 10 18:12:25 -0800 2008 3383188 32444 MakingSense 4 3404562 I agree with you--I'm not really an extremist about this, and sure there is loads of plain junk produced here. Made in America doesn't guarantee safety and quality, and yes, purchasing items from reputable companies is the best strategy. Also, a smart and critical consumer can usually do the research and find out more before making a purchase (part of the reason I started this thread, to learan what others might know as a place to start). I think with products made in China, or other places, there is no way to get more info, or at least, I have not found that to be the case. At one point I heard that there would be American inspections of ceramics and other food-related paraphenalia imported from China, and those that met safety standards would be labeled as such with a seal of some kind, but I have heard nothing else about this. Does anyone know about this? Perhaps this is more of a plea for transparency about the safety and quality of products we purchase--we need more information about these kinds of goods (and others, at least I do), before I am willing to let my child eat off of them. I still feel a need to buy American goods whenever I can, though. I live in a state that has deep economic scars because of industry moving abroad, and it is a tragedy to me to see what has happened to so many communites (and the people in them) because the economic infrastructures have disappeared. Sat Feb 16 13:28:24 -0800 2008 3384014 69011 liveforfood 5 3767277 I, too. look for "Made in the USA." Libbey's, Anchor Hocking, Pfatlzgraf, Corning--It would be terrible for these companies to move completely out of this country. You can't even buy American-made toothpicks anymore. Johnson Brothers dishes were, last I looked, still made in the USA. Hope they still are. Fiestaware is still made in the US. Tue Jun 10 12:06:53 -0700 2008 3404562 56467 Angela Roberta 3 3385548 ITA. I've been checking the bottoms of dishware, flatware and glassware these last couple months to see where they were manufactured. Anything "Made in China" goes back on the shelf. When purchasing online, if the dish says "imported", I'll call the site to confirm in which country it was made. Maybe overkill to some, but I prefer having a peace of mind. Mon Feb 11 09:27:44 -0800 2008 3383188 12873 OCAnn 4 3386166 The problem is that just because it's NOT made in China doesn't mean that it must be safe. Mon Feb 11 11:41:26 -0800 2008 3385548 29811 Buckethead 5 3386789 Agreed. Mon Feb 11 13:47:06 -0800 2008 3386166 12873 OCAnn 2 3561169 I completely understand your concern given that you have children. Here is a really cheap lead tester (it's like $7 ish), so you can check before you spend a lot of money buying all new dinnerware: http://www.amazon.com/Homax-Household-Lead-Test-5250/dp/B000E3DX0C Fri Apr 04 09:23:48 -0700 2008 3381457 161635 wildfire 1 3381924 Try Fishs Eddy in New York. As far as I know, all of their dinnerware is still Made in America! Great stuff, clever and lots of fun. They also have plain white - a dressy style and good old diner dishes. I've always been delighted with the things I've gotten from them. http://www.fishseddy.com/browse.cfm/2,51.html Sat Feb 09 22:47:44 -0800 2008 3380838 32444 MakingSense 2 3383202 Many thanks for this link! Very cool looking stuff, and looks like prices are very reasonable. Lots of items that are just what I had in mind! I will take more time to peruse and do some shopping. Sun Feb 10 13:09:38 -0800 2008 3381924 69011 liveforfood 3 3383501 Also take a look at Apilco. It's simple white porcelain, made in France for over a century, clean designs, widely available at Williams Sonoma, via Amazon, EBay, occasionally and randomly at such outlets as TJMaxx and Marshalls (but only random pieces, not dinnerware sets). I've had some Apilco ramekins for years and they are sturdy. If you google the brand name you'll get a number of hits. Good Luck. Sun Feb 10 15:18:06 -0800 2008 3383202 139725 janniecooks 4 3383985 Apilco, although not made in America, is absolutely first-rate porcelain, as is Pilluvuyt, both of which are available at W-S and at many fine stores and on-line. I've had some of mine for more than 35 years and it is as beautiful today as when I got it. I add to it all the time. Sur LaTable carries Revol, another French porcelain (200 year old company) as well as their own porcelain line (although I'm not sure where it's made.) Sun Feb 10 18:04:03 -0800 2008 3383501 32444 MakingSense 5 3596081 Sur La Table white porcelain is largely manufactured in Turkey; a few pieces come from different places (e.g. Italy), but the vast majority comes from Turkey. Tue Apr 15 09:28:53 -0700 2008 3383985 156499 mateo21 2 3719353 Alas, most of what Fishs Eddy sells now are Chinese imports (except for some of the glass pieces). I had read an article about this earlier this year and I phoned them and they confirmed this. Too bad, because they have very cute designs... Sun May 25 10:36:23 -0700 2008 3381924 195124 liketoeatalot 1 3385555 You may also want to check your local restaurant supply store. While many of the items are "Made in China", there are still non-Chinese finds...porcelain from Europe, utensils from Japan...all at very good prices. Mon Feb 11 09:30:14 -0800 2008 3380838 12873 OCAnn 1 3405026 All I know of for sure, is not Sango. I bought service for 16. All pieces, all sizes, all the same pattern, a light green, dark green on the outside, with muddled green in there too. Upon washing them the first time in the dishwasher, the glaze came off a bunch of the pieces. Then fadeage started. I took them all back to Macy's at Christmas, with cash receipt in hand and still had the toughest time getting a refund, plus, it took hours. Just no Sango is all I can tell you. Go with a tried and true brand, a well known brand. They don't have to cost an arm and a leg. Sat Feb 16 17:12:00 -0800 2008 3380838 23096 iL Divo 1 3521079 You might consider stoneware by reputable manufacturers such as Noritake or Denby. Stoneware is not made with a lead glaze, doesn't contain lead, and isn't made in China. Sun Mar 23 22:37:05 -0700 2008 3380838 177382 Luckybranch 2 3523204 Stoneware rocks. Get some Denby, or try the Dansk stuff (their outlet stores abound). I have way, way too many pieces of Portmeirion's Botanic Garden pattern...good stuff, made in the UK and perfectly safe. Mon Mar 24 14:08:28 -0700 2008 3521079 12023 Hungry Celeste 2 3534080 I highly recommend Denby, which are made in England. I've had a set of Denby dishes for years and I've only ever chipped one piece (and I'm not super careful handling it). It's not the cheapest line but they will last forever. They have plain white as well as a variety of colours. Thu Mar 27 13:10:32 -0700 2008 3521079 101907 ms. clicquot 1 3523209 So what about Corelle? Too downmarket for ya? It's sturdy, safe (not pottery, so no concerns w/lead glazes). It certainly comes in white. Mon Mar 24 14:09:37 -0700 2008 3380838 12023 Hungry Celeste 2 4414907 I grew up with plain white corelle, never realized it wasn't "real" china. Fri Feb 13 12:21:53 -0800 2009 3523209 57890 KaimukiMan 1 3523822 Homer Laughlin makes lots of stuff other than Fiesta for the food service market. http://www.hlchina.com/ For that matter Fiesta does come in white (and coming this summer, ivory). Given the way things can be procured these days, there is probably a way to buy this for your home use too if that's what you mean. I can't quite tell. Mon Mar 24 17:02:23 -0700 2008 3380838 40162 CrazyOne 2 3533975 We have young children and also prefer to be extra cautious. So, we use American-made Corelle as our everyday dishes because they are lightweight, break- and chip resistant and cost next to nothing, especially when they're on sale. I especially love the square plates and bowls. For entertaining, we use the French-made Apilco which we purchased from Williams-Sonoma for more than quadruple the price of Corelle. Both Corelle and Apilco are microwave and dishwasher-safe. Our Apilco dinnerware is even freezer safe. Thu Mar 27 12:51:26 -0700 2008 3523822 162654 DishyDiva 1 3544240 I, too would like to extol the virtues of Corelle. For these reasons: The design of the plates leaves more room for food. Even though the plates are not as large as other manufacturers, the surface area for food is much larger. It really irks me that so many 12” plates have as little as a 6” serving area. I like serving my main and sides on one plate. They stack like paper plates and are light in weight. In my tiny 8’ x 8’ kitchen (with a giant GE fridge in it, by the way) being able to have all my plates on one shelf is essential. I am a congenital dropper. My mother had the condition and sadly I share the tendency. The first time I sent a plate clattering to the floor I was mortified, then instantly gleeful as the plate did its little circular dance and remained whole. Bless Corning and Corelle. It’s beautiful. I love having whiter than white dinnerware that I can round out and play with using other things picked up at Goodwill or DAV. I inherited my mother’s wedding china. Beautiful Wedgewood that filled me with terror thinking I’d break it. Frankly it just wasn’t me. Oddly nobody else in the family wanted it, so with clear conscience it was sold at the estate sale. I kept a few bits of other china she collected (including the Peter Rabbit Wedgewood that I break out when I’m not feeling well), but for every day I love my Corelle. Sun Mar 30 19:29:08 -0700 2008 3380838 10516 MplsM ary 2 3549081 The only bad thing I'll say about Corelle is that when it does break, it shatters into a zillion razor-sharp fragments and finding them all to clean them up is a pain. Not as much of a pain as stepping on one of them with bare feet, though.. Tue Apr 01 09:05:29 -0700 2008 3544240 29811 Buckethead 3 3593305 Really? I didn't know that. In my 30 years, I've never see one break, though we have repeatedly dropped them. Mon Apr 14 12:57:55 -0700 2008 3549081 162654 DishyDiva 4 3595280 I used to have a set of Corelle years ago and it's true - it's almost as though they explode if you drop them a certain way. Instead of breaking into a few large pieces they splinter into a million shards. I broke a couple of pieces when they dropped on a tile floor, otherwise they're pretty tough. Tue Apr 15 06:03:32 -0700 2008 3593305 101907 ms. clicquot 5 3595882 I've dropped them on tile & hardwood plenty of times without shattering. My one shattering experience involved a really, really old small bowl, used to feed the outside semi-feral cat. He'd pushed it around on concrete for so long that the bottom was all scratched up--the proximal cause of shattering. Tue Apr 15 08:48:48 -0700 2008 3595280 12023 Hungry Celeste 2 3578391 I have Wedgwood Peter Rabbit for 6. It is great when you or someone else needs comfort food and pampering. Many years ago Waterford made a cut crystal baby bottle, water sized. Meant as a christening gift but useable. I always thought that on the days you needed to go home and suck your thumb the bottle would be great for a self indulgent martini. In the same vein, my aunt had an antique baby crib converted into a settee. She said she always sat there when she was sulking about something Wed Apr 09 14:37:47 -0700 2008 3544240 10285 Candy 1 3548225 I wonder why it's called "china"? Anyway, what about picking up some vintage Pyrex from ebay? Maybe not completely white, but much of it is mostly white. Borosilicate glass is about as pristine an eating surface as you're going to find. Mon Mar 31 22:29:38 -0700 2008 3380838 25310 Chuckles the Clone 1 3577475 I too say I love Corelle! I have my original set bought when it first came out -- Spring Blossom Green, augmented by my Grandma's set, augmented still more by great thrift shop finds that cost pennies. I now have enough place settings and matching pyrex accessory pieces to host a bbq party for dozens of people, and I do not worry about someone dropping them. Oven safe, dishwasher safe, microwave safe, light and sturdy. What more could you want. Wed Apr 09 11:19:17 -0700 2008 3380838 25892 Leolady 2 3582469 I agree that we are getting a little crazy here. Most stoneware and china dishes have lead in them, no matter where they are made. They are glazed to make them safe for eating. If the glaze wears out, or crazes, or has cracks, the dishes are no long safe to use. If the glaze is intact, there is nothing to worry about no matter where they are made. There is a very simple way to test if the glazing on your dishes is leaching any lead or other possible toxic substances. Put the dish in water for a few minutes. If you see water lines, that indicates that the glazing, which is required on all types of dishware that contains lead, regardless of its origin, has minor cracks in it and the dishes aren't safe to use. It would be a manufacturing defect in a new piece. I have found this to be a problem on cheap decorative serveware (Found at the usual linen box store, but they were so pretty! They had grapes on them!) and on old pieces in which the glaze simply wears off due to repeated use. The lines you will see on new dishes tend to be bigger and more noticeable than the crazing you find on antique china (which also makes those unsafe to use regularly). Literally, you will be looking at water leaking under the glaze, which also tells you that lead can seep out onto your food when it comes in contact with it. Don't be alarmed. No, I too won't buy dog food from China and bargain toothpaste is out of the question, but I am a glass and china collector, and have learned that this is a problem that can happen whether the item is manufactured in Europe, North America (including Mexico), or in Asia. It doesn't matter, so you need to check. Thu Apr 10 15:49:52 -0700 2008 3577475 87837 RGC1982 3 3582635 I used to work for Williams-Sonoma in product information. We tested ALL of our products for lead safety before they ever reached the shelves. We actually had production samples sent to our testing dept where it was tested by us. If it leached lead above a certain amount (which, by the way, was a MORE rigorous standard than the FDA's or Prop 65), we didn't carry it. To be honest with you, it wasn't China that was the worst offender, it was Mexico. The colors to look out for in Chinese patterns is RED. There are other reasons to not buy from China right now (political, mostly), but I wouldn't discount the dinnerware coming from there in a store like Williams-Sonoma. You may be interested in reading this article from the Chicago Tribune last year on lead safety in dinnerware: http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/home/chi-1021leadoct21,1,4301419,full.story Thu Apr 10 16:46:58 -0700 2008 3582469 182530 spycygrl 1 3592259 I could have written your request myself. Just curious if you have selected a set or learned anything new! Mon Apr 14 08:21:20 -0700 2008 3380838 183435 lookout16 1 3766900 Yes, Please…let us know how you made out and what you ended up buying. I too have been avoiding anything China-made for quite some time now. It goes way beyond avoiding the lead problem – there have been other safety concerns with the Made In China label, involving cadmium, and other hazardous ingredients. And of course, everyone is familiar with the safety violations involving children’s toys, toothpaste, and pet foods. Way before these problems started hitting the news, my personal experience with the overall shoddy workmanship had put me off anything made in China. Now I buy nothing without checking the label first. While it’s true that most glazed dinnerware can be safety compromised over time by crazing or other damage to the glaze, it’s unsound reasoning to compare product deterioration over time with a product that is unsafe right out of the box. (And I say “most” because there does in fact exist lead and cadmium free dinnerware. I will try to stop back and post a source link.) I will continue to avoid anything made in China as long as I can find the same product manufactured elsewhere. I prefer USA made but most European products, particularly from England, France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, are also known for their superior quality and high safety standards. And yes, I know I will have to pay more but to me, it’s worth it. Right now I’m on the hunt for a set of Corelle dinnerware and having difficulty shopping through the Internet since so many sites do not provide country of origin. Sadly, you can no longer assume all Corelle items to be manufactured in the USA, although I believe that most still are. For several days now I’ve been awaiting email replies to my inquiries for this information. Their lack of response speaks volumes as does the omission of this pertinent information from their product description. Tue Jun 10 10:38:04 -0700 2008 3380838 199501 kittymom 2 4404042 It is appropriate to be concerned about the question of lead. Since industry entered the dinnerware arena, costs have made lead an issue. Lead is a fluxing agent potters use to melt glaze ingredients at a lower temperature, saving on fuel costs, and enabling use of cheaper clay. Industry has research what is "safe" levels of lead, and laws allow that level of lead to be used, all over the world. Different levels in different countries, including the USA. The only way one can buy ceramic products that are lead free is to know personally what is in the product. If you buy from a potter who made their own wares, you can rest assured there is no lead. Potters are not stupid, and recognize the need to assure no lead is used. If there is lead in a decorative item that is hand made, they will tell you not to use it for food use. Industry has no such conscience and will not tell you they use "safe" levels, and certainly not the shop keepers who sell the products. Hand made porcelain is fired to a higher temperature and therefore, has no need for a fluxing agent. If a clay body used is red it is most assuredly unsafe for food. The character of red clay is it is porous, absorbs and holds bacteria. Also, because it is a low fire clay, will require a fluxing agent for the glaze which melts at a higher temperature than the clay body. The same can be said of any other color, because it is not the color of the clay that determines its' firing temperature, but the amount of silica and kaolin in the clay body. The term "China" is a work that grew out of European potteries attempting to find cheap ways to produce what China called "porcelain" which was fired at such a high temperature. High fired porcelain partially melts, becoming glasslike in its character, called Viscosity or "glass like" and semi transparent. Because of the high temperature and viscose nature of the clay, it not only does not require lead, it also is virtually non porous. Having said all of that, I would like to bring to your attention any lead crystal you may use in your home. Are you concerned about that? Tue Feb 10 09:48:39 -0800 2009 3766900 265148 coopermays 1 4404069 Hi, i posted a reply to your question on safety of dinnerware. I do porcelain dinnerware, and of course would like for you to know about my products on http://coopermays@blogspot.com/ But moreover to share what you should know about commercial dinnerware. I won't bother here restating but yes. Lead is an issue and it springs out of industrial economics, cheap way to produce good looking but dangerous tableware. What I basically share is the fact that handmade by a potter is safe, if it is high fired. The firing temperature is what lead is all about. High fired wares, ceramic products that are truly high fired will also be chip resistant due to the strength of porcelain. So ask. Ask about the firing temperature, and glaze content. Tue Feb 10 09:57:03 -0800 2009 3380838 265148 coopermays 2 4673028 I'm in the market for some new dinnerware too, and it's going to be a set from a potter. Just getting tired of our 40-year-old department-store stoneware pieces! Little kids no longer around, and it's time to do something nice for ourselves. I like your wares, based on what I can see in your photos, but your blog link doesn't work for me. Mon May 11 08:23:56 -0700 2009 4404069 124191 comestible 1 4409134 I'm not sure how up to date this website is, but it might be useful: http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/kitchen.html I'm not sure avoiding Chinese products on quality grounds is a sound argument. There is high quality stuff from China and junk from the USA. I buy quality first. Quality being equal, I'll buy made in the USA over made anywhere else to support my home country's economy. Wed Feb 11 19:06:44 -0800 2009 3380838 248284 taos 1 4413482 I bought 2 sets of Nikko Blanc Fleur (white, embossed bone china - each set has four 4-piece place settings) at a very good price (I think around $70/set) with free shipping online in November. I just checked the back of one of the plates; it was made in Thailand. Anyway, I love these dishes! Very chip-resistant, beautiful glaze/color, and the plates, mugs, bowls are perfectly-sized IMO. Fri Feb 13 05:52:26 -0800 2009 3380838 208758 koigirl 1 4435796 If you are looking for safe American made dinnerware, I highly suggest Hartstone Pottery. I love their product. And it is the best for baking. Everything they sell is made in Zanesville Ohio. They use lead free glazes, and all their dinnerware is a fully vitrified body - which means it is restaurant quality. It can handle all the temperate changes from freeze to oven. Very strong and durable! Fri Feb 20 09:26:35 -0800 2009 3380838 268424 mcdirector 1 4440687 Wow, it's too bad you're against Fiestaware, because I've owned mine for over 25 years, and they have given me true service. They've lived through the dishwasher, microwave, and 2 kids who've eaten off of them since they could eat solids. We've broken quite a few--we're very rough with our dishes--but replacing them is so easy since I never stuck to any one color. Our set is an entire rainbow. They're very reasonably priced and have lots of different pieces to choose from. They also coordinate with other bright colored pieces. What else can I say? I've thought about replacing them with classic white, but if pieces get broken and if the company has discontinued that style, I would actually find it more difficult to find matching pieces than with Fiestaware. Anyhow, another excellent brand made here in the US is Heath Ceramics. Just as good as Denby and with a beautiful aesthetic. Unfortunately, a bit pricey. I also agree with trying to buy items made closer to you. There are more reasons than just health issues with buying Chinese-made products--think of the amount of fossil fuel used to transport goods, China's bad labor practices, keeping jobs here in the US, and also by creating an export-product economy in China, it prevents them from creating a real market there for their own citizens. Sun Feb 22 00:51:01 -0800 2009 3380838 73504 breadfanatic 2 4672632 FYI while looking for USA made dinnerware I looked up Pfaltzgraff--the company has been sold and guess what --is now being made in CHINA--closed museum they operated as well--may have some made in USA still around but I was sick --wanted the poppy pattern one==now will have to look closer when buying Mon May 11 06:10:35 -0700 2009 4440687 291700 lukee