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Jan 5, 2008 09:10 PM

Is gold and white flour the same as white whole wheat flour?

I'm looking at a yeasted cornbread recipe from 101 cookbooks blog that I am going to doctor tomorrow.

It calls for white whole wheat flour.

From an earlier thread on white whole wheat flour I learned that I can get some of this from King Arthur.

But I am wondering if it is perchance the same as the gold and white flour at our coop.
I asked someone at the coop if this was the case but the answer was not clear. So I'm questioning whether that person knew. But she was saying, I think, that it was less heavy than regular whole wheat.

Does anyone know what this gold and white flour is and whether it is the same as the white whole wheat?

I did buy some of it. If not, I may just substitute half white flour and half whole wheat to see what I come up with.

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  1. This link gives a little more information about the "gold & white" flour.
    I think you will be fine using it in place of the white WW flour. There may be slight textural difference & a little nutritional difference, but IMO not enough to worry about. Ask your co-op if Natural Way Mills is indeed their source. If so, Natural Way Mills should be able to provide you with substitution guidelines for the future. I would also speak with the co-ops buyer & see why they decided to carry it - there may be uses for which they feel it is superb! Who knows, might end up with some terrific new recipes.

    16 Replies
    1. re: meatn3

      Thank you for this info. I suspect you are right -- that "gold n white" flour I bought is probably from Natural Way Mills. From the web site link you gave, it looks like it has the endosperm and the germ of the wheat kernel but not the bran. From the web site I would infer that it is most like a white flour but has some additional nutrients from the germ. But probably lesser keeping qualities. The site also says to use 1/4 less than in standard recipes.

      It also sounds like this is different from white whole wheat flour which comes from a different wheat variety but includes the full kernal including the bran. It sounds like the bran in this white wheat variety (as opposed to red wheat) has less tannic acid and phenolic acid so it is less bitter. It sounds like King Arthur and Hodgson Mills both make this. I may have to order it to try it.

      Anyway, for today, I'm going to sub some of the whole wheat called for in my recipe with the gold n white flour I bought and see what happens.

      1. re: karykat

        karykat, Wheat Montana sells a Prairie Gold flour made from a low tannin "white" wheat. Some of their outlets have in-store flour mills, similar to coffee mills in supermarkets. They have a location listing on their web site, so you may be able to get it in your area. Always phone ahead to confirm availability. The list isn't completely up to date. Whatever the source of the gold n white flour, if it contains any germ at all, be sure to freeze it. The germ oxidizes quickly, giving you the slightly rancid taste typical of so much whole-wheat bread.

        1. re: Father Kitchen

          Thank you. I did find a dealer in my area. I hope they sell in small quantities (less than 50 pound bags!)

          You clearly have a depth of experience and knowledge in bread making. Out of curiousity and if you don't mind my asking, how many loaves of bread do you make in a typical week?

          1. re: karykat

            I used to bake about six loaves a week. Now I am lucky if I have time to bake a couple of loaves every couple of weeks. I've been doing this for about 12 years, although way back in my youth I messed with bread, not very successfully. I had to learn that it is basically only flour and water and salt and whatever you use to leaven it. Learn its parameters and then fool around with it, like you would with basic egg dishes. To my mind, these basic artisan loaves are like scrambled eggs. Not much need for a recipe, but you have to be aware of what the ingredients can do and how they work up. Brioche is more like soufle--still pretty simple but done in disparate steps with special attention to proportions. And rye breads--well they are still mostly uncharted territory for me. I'm still intimidated by the pentosans and keep a recipe book handy for them. But I know that if I were to have time to bake a series of them over a couple of weeks, my fear of them would vanish, too. I have read most of the bread books out there, mainly to help me understand what the dough is doing. And sometimes I'll actually use a recipe, as for porridge-based breads.

            1. re: Father Kitchen

              P.S. Let us know how the yeasted cornbread turns out. At George Washington's Mill in Mt. Vernon, I got some cornmeal and a recipe sheet that included a hoe cake recipe that called for yeast but that, given the date, must actually have been leavened with sourdough. I've been wanting to try it. I love cornbreads made from freshly ground meal.

              1. re: Father Kitchen

                Here is my report on the yeasted cornbread recipe I tried.

                What I was aiming for was a cornbread base with sausages on top. (Really good organic smoked brats.) My prior effort had been more polenta like and gloppy (based on a recipe that called for a lot of cornmeal and eggs.) So I was looking for a cornbread with more body and thought the yeasted bread might be the ticket.

                I took a lot of liberties with the 101 cookbooks recipe.

                I didn't have the white whole wheat flour so I used half gold n white flour and half regular whole wheat flour. Instead of chives, I used sauteed shallots. Instead of fresh or frozen corn kernals, I used John Cope's toasted dried sweet corn, reconstituted with some boiling water. (I think that stuff will have lots of other uses. It smells heavenly and there are lots of recipes that call for it.)

                I made the dough and it rose as expected. Instead of putting it in a loaf pan, I put it in an oval baking dish and put my halved brats on top.

                The brats were great. I'm not sure about the bread. The flavor was pretty good but it was pretty heavy. Quite heavy. Not unexpected, I guess, given that half of the flour was whole wheat. I thought the half that was closer to a white flour would lighten it more, but didn't. My SO was very diplomatic. He said he thought it was great. (Of course, he said that about the gloppy polenta-like version too.) Maybe this recipe needed more pentosans?

                Anyway, I'm glad I tried it but probably wouldn't make it again. The quest continues.

                1. re: karykat

                  Well, this is not what I expected when you wrote about yeasted corn bread, but it sounds interesting. My experience for yeasted cornbreads is limited to the addition of freshly milled cornmeal to a yeasted or sourdough loaf. I limit the cornmeal to about 1/4 of the total grain, although from my reading I understand you can push it further if the flour is rather strong. Probably in your case I would have settled for a classic skillet cornbread (unyeasted). If I wanted the brats in it, I would have cooked them somewhat first and poured the batter over them and let them finish cooking while the bread bakes. But then I like even cornbread made with no wheat flour in it, leavened only by the steam caused by the batter hitting the hot pan and baking in a hot oven. And I've been wanting to experiment with sourdough hoe cakes. However, if you want a yeasted corn bread, do a web search for Portuguese corn bread. I think one version is called pan do mieho and another is broa. I've seen broa recipes that are straight cornmeal and others that involve flour. And if you are not adverse to experimentation, working precooked polenta or grits into a bread dough is another good way to get a yeasted cornbread. (There are some Italian recipes for bread with polenta in them too.) (Reinhart or Leader may have something on these mixed grain recipes in recent books. And Laurel Robertson may have something in the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book. I'm not near my recipes books right now, so I can't check.) More pentosans? I doubt it. My understanding of them is that they are water-soluble gums that occur especially in rye flour and make it sticky and hard to handle. In making rye bread, you avoid kneading too much because of them. Speaking of kneading, it is possible that one reason for the heaviness of your bread is that you didn't knead it enough. If your dough was raised in just a few hours, like typical bread dough, you must develop the gluten well at the beginning so you can stretch it into a thin membrane. Some whole wheat breads take much more kneading than white breads. Alternatively, try cutting the dough into maneageable pieces and processing it in a food processor fitted with a steel blade for between 45 seconds and a minute.

                  1. re: Father Kitchen

                    I checked some references last night. Dan Leader has a yeasted bread containing cornmeal in "Bread Alone." The ratio of cornmeal to high extraction wheat flour is 6 1/2 ounces of cornmeal to between 20 and 26 ounces of wheat flour. (Aim toward the lower amount). He starts with a poolish (a yeasted wheat pre-ferment). He kneads rather a long time and says, "The dough is ready when a small amount pulled from the mass springs back quickly." This book is easy to find from used-book dealers. Jeff Hamelman, in his book "Bread," has a corn bread recipe that also begins with a poolish. His over-all ratio of fine cornmeal to wheat is one part of cornmeal by weight to three of bread flour. It is moderately hydrated (63% of the weight of the flours) and kneaded to moderate gluten development. The cornmeal is presoaked. Dan Lepard, in "The Art of Handmade Bread" (one of the most interesting breadbooks out there), contains a corn bread recipe that combines both polenta and corn flour. In British books, corn flour usually means what we call corn starch, but it may mean here simply finely ground corn meal. I'm not sure. In any case, this has the highest ratio of corn to wheat of any of these recipes. Using the gram weight we have 50 grams of cornmeal (in the polenta), 150 grams of cornflour (in the final mix), and 350 grams of bread flour. This recipe also uses buttermilk. And it gets five quick kneads of ten seconds each over a period of about an hour and a half. Finally, Carol Field's Italian Baker probably contains at least one polenta-based recipe, but I no longer have that book to check. At any rate, you may find it worthwhile to get these books from your library or on interlibrary loan. As for myself, I have a mind to make polenta with 5 ounces of home ground cornmeal and 4 cups of water, let it cool, combine it with 15 ounces of bolted home ground white winter wheat and enough water to pull it together into a ball, let it sit for an hour, and then work in 2 tsp of salt and then 1/4 tsp of yeast and let it rise overnight. Now if I can just get time in the kitchen. :>) I had to clear out for the holidays as our brother cook has been making cakes and cookies to beat the band. Our last Christmas season feast is tomorrow. So maybe next week ...

                    1. re: Father Kitchen

                      Father KItchen -- I've been meaning to reply to your great advice. And have been dashing until now.

                      The reason I tried the yeasted bread was that my prior unyeasted attempt was too gloppy. But I think I need to try that again, with a better recipe. Perhaps the traditional way in an iron skillet.

                      I did cook my bratwurst first in my last experiment, and am glad I did. It rendered a lot of fat and water. And I put the bratwurst sliced lengthwise on top of the dough. But that was not the best approach, as the slices curled upwards. Even battened down with toothpicks, they were not really secured to the bread. So putting the dough over the brats as you suggested would be the better approach.

                      I think I have satisfied my curiousity with the yeasted approach and with the bratwurst. My next attempt will be a traditional cornbread, in the skillet as I said. It turns out that in the course of my experimenting I discovered that a friend with cancer loves cornbread. He got very excited about the idea of some fresh cornbread. So that is the route I think I'll go next. I have a book on cornbread by Crescent Dragonwagon, and I thought I would see what she has there.

                      I have looked more for white whole wheat and found it is more available here than I thought. It turns out that Wheat Montana supplies a couple of our specialty grocers here and I also found some milled by Bob's Red Mill at our coop.

                      Thanks for your expert advice!

                      1. re: karykat

                        You actually got me more curious about cornbread and whether it is possible to make a yeasted cornbread without adding wheat flour or a sugar of some kind. Specifically, whether corn meal contains enough amylase to crack the starches into sugars. I checked with my brother who is a seed germ specialist. Starchy corns actually contains an amylase inhibitor that researchers are trying to modify genetically to improve ethanol production. He suggested I try using dried sweet corn for the meal. John Cone's would probably work nicely. So much for that. I'll stick with the cornbreads in John Thorne's essay "Cornbread Nation."

            2. re: Father Kitchen

              I'd like to try the Wheat Montana Prairie Gold also, unfortunately there wasn't a dealer in my area. Do you happen to know if there is an outlet in the Northern Virginia area?

              1. re: josie888

                You can find store locations at The most northern source in VA seems to be Yoder's Country Market in Prattville, near Staunton. A bakery in Bethesda, MD, sells it in small quantitites. Your best bet, if you don't mind driving a bit, is George Ruhl & Sons in Hanover, MD, south of Baltimore. It's the oldest and one of the biggest baker's supply places. They have everything.

                1. re: Father Kitchen

                  Okay thanks. George Ruhl & Sons sounds like a great store, if I'm in Baltimore I'll stop by. Great Harvest, a bakery in Herndon, has sold me some of their white wheat flour and would probably sell me some of the grain. I don't think it's Prairie Gold but it's good too.

                  Btw, I made your whole wheat-oatmeal-honey bread today and it was delicious. Just what I was wanting, perfect with some peanut butter and jam. Also, since you have so much experience with grains and bread, have you done any baking with sprouted grains?

                  1. re: josie888

                    Josie, if you are looking for grain, give George Ruhl & Sons a call first to make sure they have it in stock. I've bought flour from them, but not the grain.

                      1. re: josie888

                        I checked their online catalogue, and grain was not listed.