470866 Wed Dec 19 04:04:26 -0800 2007 4 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 3221163 OK, I got some tough questions about fat,duck fat in particular. 1) Is there a temperature at which fat starts to render off from the duck? Or is the concept based on the Maillard reaction where you just want to heat up and dry out the skin as much as possible to release all the juices? I'm asking because I was wondering if you could render out the fat sous-vide style, or would that be pretty pointless and time consuming? 2) I really love the thought of incorporating the duck fat into a sauce to serve with the duck. One idea I had was to make an oil-vinegar dressing but with duck-fat instead of oil. Well, the duck fat is just too dense and doesn't hold an emulsification with the vinegar. I was wondering if anyone thought of using some lecithin or whatever hydrocolloid to emulsify the two together? It would work right? Oh, and on a side note, if anyone can think of any other ideas for sauces based on duck fat, I'd love to hear them. I'm going to try to make a hollandaise out of it at some point. Wed Dec 19 04:04:26 -0800 2007 146339 phan1 1 3221196 1. Think it through: If sous vide doesn't render any fat out of foi gras (retaining the full weight of foi gras is the reason sous vide was invented), why would it render fat out of a duck? Standard cooking methods render the fat out of a duck or goose (not quite as fatty as a duck) because fat melts! When roasting a whole duck, the tradition is to pierce the skin over the fattiest areas (breast) with a trussing needle or a sharp thin knife in order to allow the fat to drain during roasting. I simply cut three gill-like slashes through the skin (but not through the fat) down each side of the breast to allow the rendered fat to drain. The problem with the small holes method is that they often seal up during the cooking process. Pan frying a duck breast will also render duck fat. Piercing or slashing the skin before frying will render more fat than not slicing, but some fat will still render out without it simply because the fat layer is exposed along the cut edges. 2. Off hand, I can't think of any duck recipes that don't use some of the rendered fat in the sauce. I don't think your vinaigrette idea will work if you're talking about a cold vinaigrette simply because duck fat solidifies when cold. But there are traditional hot dressing type recipes that do use hot rendered animal fat, a classic spinach salad with lardons being a prime example. I can't think of any reason why crisp diced duck skin and rendered duck fat could not be used in place of pork in such a recipe. Probably with excellent results. As for an added emuslifier to help incorporate duck fat, my money is on heat being the best emuslifier going. It's tried and true! And as a matter of personal taste, Hollandaise wouldn't be Hollandaise if its made with duck fat, now would it? Do you make vanilla ice cream with chocolate syrup? For more sauces using duck fat, simply Google "duck recipes" and you'll find a gazillion of them! Well, just about any search engine will do. Sounds like you have a curious (and probably young) mind (ain't nothin' wrong with that!) and that you'd benefit greatly by investing in a copy of Larouse Gastronomique, then read! read! read! Good luck. Wed Dec 19 04:38:17 -0800 2007 3221163 112096 Caroline1 2 3223443 I think I'm agreeing with caroline in saying that the emulsification isn't really the problem, but the solidification temperature is. Meaning warm is good, as in a warm slaw, or warm potato salad. Most fats are made up of many lipids, some saturated, some not. Even butter isn't completely saturated. I think that incorporating a highly unsaturated fat into the duck fat would help out. Regarding emulsification, remember that a little bit of mustard goes a long way, as do egg yolks. You don't necessarily need modern stuff. If you're interested in doing something very modern check this out. http://news.curiouscook.com/2007/10/curious-cook-in-new-york-times.html I haven't tried the technique, but it sounds incredibly interesting, and you might be able to do something with it. Wed Dec 19 16:19:56 -0800 2007 3221196 84570 kindofabigdeal 1 3221375 On the point of incorportating duck fat into a sauce, you could try a mild cheese. I once did a duck on spinach & frisee salad with a warm dressing of duck fat, vinegar, and a mild cheese filled with dried cranberries. The dressing didn't separate, and the cheese wasn't assertive enough to overpower the duck fat. All in all, it was a delicious, if not extremely odd, summer meal. By the way, you might try using duck fat in place of bacon grease or goose fat in certain recipes. You could also just save it all until you have enough fat to confit a duck. Now that's delicious. Wed Dec 19 06:25:38 -0800 2007 3221163 17410 Ali 1 3223687 We had sous vide duck breast where I worked in SF; the fat did not render out and I thought it was really gross and the wrong way to do duck. Rare breast is fine, i just want the subcutaneous fat rendered out and covering my potatoes, not sitting in a slab on my meat. Wed Dec 19 18:10:13 -0800 2007 3221163 13150 babette feasts