468862 Wed Dec 12 12:39:33 -0800 2007 46 34 Wine 0 3202371 I am planning to propose to my girlfriend in January and I need a wine recommendation. We'll be going to a restaurant where a chef acquaintance of ours will be serving us a special tasting menu. They'll take care of most of the wines (the chef mentioned that he'd find us some cool boutiquey stuff), but I wanted to bring a special bottle of champagne to start off the evening. (The nicest bottle on their list is Yellow Label.) Given the expenditures on the ring and on dinner, my budget is not unlimited. I want to spend about $100. Complicating matters is the fact that we live in Pennsylvania, so we are at the mercy of the state as to which champagnes are available. Here is the list of champagnes available in PA (there are 18 pages, but you can sort by price): http://www.lcb.state.pa.us/webapp/Product_Management/psi_ProductListPage_Inter.asp?searchPhrase=&regular=on&searchCode=&selTyp=Wines&Cost1=&selTypS=0&selTypW=927&holiday=on&selTypA=0&submit=SEARCH&accessory=on&chairman=on&closeout=on&limited=on&slo=on&onetime=on&outlet=on&specialty=on&powerpur=on&psiSB=rtl_prc&psiSD=ASC&npsiSD=ASC&npsiSB=brnd I'm definitely looking for something on the dry end of the spectrum. Thanks for the help! Wed Dec 12 12:39:33 -0800 2007 16451 mhoffman 1 3202504 Here are three recommendations: The Heidsieck Champagne Charlie at $121 Laurent Perrier Brut Rose at $86 Gosset Grand Millesime Brut at $96 I've noticed, frustratingly so, that in that list, some vintage dates are left off some of the vintage wines. There are more knowledgeable Champagne lovers than I who write on this board... Whiner is one of the most passionate and informed...hope he weighs in. Here are some other threads with good recs that you can check against the PLCB list: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/429815 http://www.chowhound.com/topics/457486 http://www.chowhound.com/topics/413632 Wed Dec 12 13:17:03 -0800 2007 3202371 18222 maria lorraine 1 3202513 You cannot go wrong with Cristal Wed Dec 12 13:19:24 -0800 2007 3202371 20921 Tay 2 3202616 You can when a) it's $200+ retail and b) they don't sell it in your state. :) Wed Dec 12 13:41:40 -0800 2007 3202513 92744 invinotheresverde 2 3202619 Yes, but it's $300 for the 2000 vintage on the list. Wed Dec 12 13:41:47 -0800 2007 3202513 18222 maria lorraine 3 3202631 Wow, that's even worse than I thought. Wed Dec 12 13:45:20 -0800 2007 3202619 92744 invinotheresverde 2 3203049 Well, Cristal can be excellent, but you can go "wrong" by a) spending too much for it; b) passing by several "better" wines which cost less. But that's MY taste; YMMV. Wed Dec 12 15:56:52 -0800 2007 3202513 28122 zin1953 3 3203079 Absolutely. I get the same mileage. Wed Dec 12 16:05:47 -0800 2007 3203049 18222 maria lorraine 1 3202586 I think you should lean toward a rose. Not to generalize but most women like the pink color and the rose Champagne is quite good. All of the following would work well for the occassion: LAURENT PERRIER BRUT ROSE HEIDSIECK CHARLES BRUT ROSE VEUVE CLICQUOT RES ROSE 2000 DELAMOTTE BRUT ROSE NV GOSSET ROSE POL ROGER BRUT ROSE' 99 Wed Dec 12 13:35:50 -0800 2007 3202371 14573 Scott M 1 3202595 In addition to ML's recs... POL ROGER BRUT CHARDONNAY 1998 POL ROGER BRUT ROSE' 99 JACQUESSON BRUT NV CUVEE 730 JACQUESSON BRUT GRAND CRU AVIZE 1997 PIERRE PETERS CUVEE SPECIALE BRUT 99 EGLY OURIET PRESTIGE MILLESIME Wed Dec 12 13:37:55 -0800 2007 3202371 74451 vinosnob 1 3202628 More or less in ascending order by weight (based on memory): POL ROGER BRUT CHARDONNAY 1998 JACQUESSON BRUT GRAND CRU AVIZE 1997 JACQUESSON BRUT SIGNATURE 1996 GOSSET GRAND MILLESIME BRUT BOLLINGER GRANDE ANNEE BRUT The '85 Heidsieck CC is intriguing, as is the '90 Henriot Enchanteleurs (which I've never had) but before buying them I'd want to be 100% sure about their storage conditions. A fan of rich, winey champagnes, I'd probably opt for the Bollinger (though I agree with Maria that the lack of vintage dates is disconcerting). Wed Dec 12 13:43:52 -0800 2007 3202371 10520 carswell 1 3202668 Yes, treat yourself to the 1990 Henriot Enchanteleurs. A wonderful aged champagne, beautiful and balanced. This is what you're looking for. Wed Dec 12 13:58:06 -0800 2007 3202371 35892 sjb7501 1 3202970 Thanks for all of these great suggestions, everyone. I'm sure to find something fantastic. Thanks! Wed Dec 12 15:26:17 -0800 2007 3202371 16451 mhoffman 1 3203070 My own choices would include -- staying UNDER $105 . . . 065747 POL ROGER BRUT CHARDONNAY 1998 $94.99 057033 JACQUESSON BRUT NV CUVEE 730 NV $94.99 1.5 L (!) 059792 GOSSET GRAND MILLESIME BRUT $96.39 029507 LAURENT PERRIER GRAND SIECLE NV $98.69 060874 JACQUESSON BRUT SIGNATURE 1996 $101.99 029582 FEUILLATTLE PALMES D'OR 97 $104.99 Wed Dec 12 16:03:54 -0800 2007 3202371 28122 zin1953 1 3203200 saw nv krug grand cuvee for $109.99 Wed Dec 12 16:56:54 -0800 2007 3202371 79299 rickym13 2 3203331 Doesn't count! Keep in mind the OP is in Pennsylvania . . . At the PLCB: 069001 SLO KRUG GRAND CUVEE $155.59 750 ML and . . . 029464 Specialty KRUG GRANDE CUVEE $152.99 750ML I don't understand why the $2.60 difference, but . . . Wed Dec 12 17:44:35 -0800 2007 3203200 28122 zin1953 3 3204008 I'd also recommend the 1996 vintage...trouble is the PLCB board doesn't list the vintages on most the vintage Champagnes. Thu Dec 13 00:26:51 -0800 2007 3203331 18222 maria lorraine 4 3204022 I've heard tell of '96 and did the same search. What should I do with the search results? Anything catch your eye as a great value? Thu Dec 13 00:42:14 -0800 2007 3204008 16451 mhoffman 5 3204060 Just a coupla personal notes: I think a Rose Champagne would be sexy, given the occasion. Here are some from the list, more or less in order of preference: Taittinger Cuvee Prestige Rose $78.49 750 Ml Gosset Celebris Rose 98 $70.99 750ml Heidsieck Charles Brut Rose Av $77.49 750 Ml Ruinart Brut Rose $62.19 Laurent Perrier Brut Rose $61.49 And $85.99, listed twice, 750 Ml Pol Roger Brut Rose 99 $75.99 Gosset Rose $83.19 750 Ml Gosset Grande Rose Brut $40.39 375 Ml half-bottle In regards to the 1996 Champagnes, well, @#$%! I'm sure there are plenty of 96s on the dang list, but they aren't listed. Just a few are, and they've already been noted. Honestly, if you didn't get a Rose Champagne, I'd take a list of 96 recs to the store to see what they actually have, since they're not listed in the database. There are some really, really good 96 recs on those other CH threads I referred to you above. More personal notes: I love the Gosset Celebris, both regular and rose ****The 95 Gosset Celebris is $69.99. I also love the Champagne Charlie and it won the Critics Challenge Platinum Award (this is a wine competition where all the judges are wine writers) -- this was the very top wine of the entire competition. Don't normally give a hoot about awards but this one actually means something. Thu Dec 13 02:02:28 -0800 2007 3204022 18222 maria lorraine 3 3204042 If they're both the NV Grande Cuvée, the only difference I can think of is the gift box. It is quite nice, and probably worth the $2.60 in price considering the special occasion. Thu Dec 13 01:25:07 -0800 2007 3203331 97069 mengathon 1 3203812 I think that I will look into the 1990 Henriot Enchanteleurs, though I will certainly inquire about storage. Looking around the net, this seems to be a bottle for which the state monopoly works to my advantage. I haven't found it available on online for under $100, but it's $83 at in PA. We love food and wine (she's actually a young food writer), but we've not yet had much opportunity to try vintage champagne. There is something nice about having a somewhat older bottle. Now to decide whether to drink the bottle at the restaurant, or to have it on ice at the location of the proposal (probably home, so we can be with our beloved doggie). Decision, decisions... (I'm still open to more advice, especially from anyone who thinks this bottle is the wrong choice.) Wed Dec 12 21:12:03 -0800 2007 3202371 16451 mhoffman 2 3203897 Forgot to add...where are my manners???...hope she says yes. Wed Dec 12 22:16:55 -0800 2007 3203812 18222 maria lorraine 2 3203979 Why, thanks. We've talked about it quite a bit, so I'm pretty confident. ;) Wed Dec 12 23:42:26 -0800 2007 3203812 16451 mhoffman 1 3203967 You don't have to exceed $100 to find some really sensational champagnes on this list. Focus on the 95, 96, and 2002 vintages to find your best values, btw.. Here's your best choices, roughly in order of preference but they're all great and under 100... 1) DUVAL-LEROY Brut 1996 ($49) from the incredible 96 vintage. Truly worth twice the price, a great champagne. 2) PIPER HEIDSIECK Brut 1995, ($65) also an incredible vintage 3) FEUILLATE Palmes D'Or 95 ($80) A beautiful champagne... if a stunning bottle makes any difference then this is it. Wed Dec 12 23:31:00 -0800 2007 3202371 42549 Chicago Mike 2 3203971 Chicago Mike: Thanks for these. Since she is a food and wine person, the price really doesn't matter so much as the quality. I think she'll be most impressed if I find a bottle she loves that she loves from a less-well-known prodicer. So a wonderful bottle that costs $50 isn't a bad idea—I just wasn't sure that there were such deals to be had. One question: These are in descending order of your preference? Your favorite is first? Wed Dec 12 23:36:27 -0800 2007 3203967 16451 mhoffman 3 3204014 Hoff: Because your intended is a food & wine buff, you might just get two bottles so the two of you can sample and compare your impressions. Yes, my list is in preferential order but I think they're all great champagnes and great values. You could do BOTH the Duval-Leroy 96 Brut AND the Piper-Heidsieck 95 Brut for around 114 and tax, and you'd have two incredible bottles to enjoy (be sure you have a designated driver, lol). The Feuillatte Palmes D'Or 95 is a beautiful champagne in a super-slick bottle, a bit pricier at $80 but still well within your range. You had a question about it, here's a blurb reference to some recent awards it's won: http://www.millissime.com/PR_Section/news_vinalies.asp I don't think you can miss with any of these.... Thu Dec 13 00:37:10 -0800 2007 3203971 42549 Chicago Mike 4 3206080 In theory, I do love the idea of trying two. In practice, however, my girlfriend is a bit of a lightweight, and I want her to be able to enjoy the meal and other wines. I suppose the that the enormity of the occasion justifies the profligacy of drinking half of each bottle, but I know that I would be pained to do so. Maybe I should just get over it... Thu Dec 13 15:15:47 -0800 2007 3204014 16451 mhoffman 5 3206381 You might look at the entirety of your menu and see how champagne friendly it is... If you don't have much in the way of champagne food then 2 bottles for 2 "lightweights" is probably an unecessary excess. On the other hand, if you're having a fair amount of compatible food and your intended expresses an interest in trying two, then it's really worth considering. But realistically, you could also put that 2nd bottle money on a fair amount of the rest of the vino... perhaps a glass of white, and glass of red, and a glass of dessert wine for each of you... $60 would go a long ways towards putting a dent in that, Your chef pal puts together a great menu, you have the champagne all night long, along with a glass of red and white wine to match the apps and entrees and a glass of the perfect wine to match your desserts... doesn't get much better for a proposal than that Thu Dec 13 17:09:14 -0800 2007 3206080 42549 Chicago Mike 6 3206460 "[The] restaurant...will be serving us a special tasting menu [and] they'll take care of most of the wines (the chef mentioned that he'd find us some cool boutiquey stuff), but I wanted to bring a special bottle of champagne to start off the evening." OP Thu Dec 13 17:44:19 -0800 2007 3206381 18222 maria lorraine 2 3203976 Oh, and I guess that gorgeous bottle couldn't hurt. After all, there's a fair chance we'll be saving it for sentimental value. But an internet search reveals no hits for the 1995 vintage of Palmes D'Or. Wine searcher has some hits, so I know it exists, but what's the deal? Wed Dec 12 23:39:02 -0800 2007 3203967 16451 mhoffman 3 3204053 Wow, for a state liquor board, I must say their selection is quite impressive. The '96 Duval-Leroy is a great suggestion. Probably the best QPR on taste alone, if you ignore all name recogition/pretty bottle. The Feuillatte Palmes d'Or bottle is actually even more beautiful looking in person than in a photograph. An idea: when did you guys first meet, or go on your first date? As long as it's 2002 or earlier, maybe choose a vintage bottle from that year? At least you can whittle down the list some from a lot of very good choices. Thu Dec 13 01:42:05 -0800 2007 3203976 97069 mengathon 4 3204806 That's a sweet idea. Unfortunately, we met and started dating in 2003. Well, I mean, that we met and started dating is not the unfortunate part! Thu Dec 13 09:12:02 -0800 2007 3204053 16451 mhoffman 4 3206255 "Wow, for a state liquor board, I must say their selection is quite impressive." Well, remember: there is no one store that has all of these bottles in stock. Many of them are only in one or two stores, spread around the state. In fact, the vast majority are SLO (Special Liquor Order), meaning that the state doesn't actually own any of them, but would have to order them for you from the producer. Thu Dec 13 16:18:06 -0800 2007 3204053 16451 mhoffman 1 3206101 A wrinkle: I just talked to my local store, and they say that any bottle that needs to be shipped for me from another state store (as many of the suggestions here would have to be) would be shipped 2-day UPS. Is such a trip in the winter likely to affect the quality of the champagne? Thu Dec 13 15:22:15 -0800 2007 3202371 16451 mhoffman 2 3206647 It won't help, but it's better than shipping in late summer! Thu Dec 13 18:55:32 -0800 2007 3206101 28122 zin1953 1 3207342 Maybe not dry, but she might like the Perrier Jouet Fleur. If you purchased 007236 it would have the glasses, pretty and a keepsake. Very romantic bottle. Fri Dec 14 06:48:28 -0800 2007 3202371 53854 WyCo 2 3207914 I've actually heard her comment that she likes that bottle. Is the wine any good? Fri Dec 14 09:47:46 -0800 2007 3207342 16451 mhoffman 3 3208098 My daughter received a set like that for passing the bar, she had just been married earlier in the year and they opened it on their first anniversary. She loved it. Fri Dec 14 10:38:42 -0800 2007 3207914 53854 WyCo 3 3208216 Perrier-Jouet's "top-of-the-line" (aka "tete de cuvee" or "prestige cuvee") is Fleur de Champange (called "Belle Epoque" in France). The wine can be (and frequently is) excellent, depending upon the vintage, and the bottle is indeed beautiful. Fri Dec 14 11:08:51 -0800 2007 3207914 28122 zin1953 1 3208150 The ones under $100 that catch my eye: 1998 Pol Roger Brut Blanc de Chardonnay 1996 Vranken Diamant Blue That said, trust me, spend the extra $21.69 and get the 1985 Charles Heidsiek Champagne Charlie. That is a truly truly special bottle of wine at its apogee right now. [Edit] Carswell made mention of the Champagne Charlie's storage conditions... don't worry, the reason it is on the list at that price is that it was re-released onto the market about a year and a half ago. 99.9% it has been stored AT Heisdsiek until then. Fri Dec 14 10:52:45 -0800 2007 3202371 50041 whiner 2 3208209 This are strong words, whiner, and you are clearly a respected poster in these parts. I will take your comment VERY seriously. Fri Dec 14 11:06:51 -0800 2007 3208150 16451 mhoffman 2 3208254 Oh, despair! This wine is out of stock, according to the PLCB hotline. The woman also told me that any special liquor order will take at least 30 days, which is frightfully close to when I want to drink the bottle. Oh well. I'll have to get something that's in stock somewhere in the state. Fri Dec 14 11:21:48 -0800 2007 3208150 16451 mhoffman 1 3208328 So, it sounds like the thing to do is to go into the store, armed with all of the recommendations you lovely people have supplied, and pray that I get a sales person who knows something. If I lived in a proper state, I'd just go to a wine store I trusted and talk to them. That's the biggest shame about state ownership (well, one of the biggest): consumers have very little contact with expert wine and spirit professionals. There's just so little education to be had, and education is one of the primary reasons to go to a wine store in the first place, if you're like me (and not already an expert). Fri Dec 14 11:47:02 -0800 2007 3202371 16451 mhoffman 2 3208616 Don't know where you are in PA exactly, but in Philly, I know I've seen a few of these bottles at the 19th & 13th Street stores, especially the Perrier Jouet Fleur bottle (great stuff if you want to splurge for a truly special occassion). Fri Dec 14 12:57:40 -0800 2007 3208328 17410 Ali 1 3309410 Thanks so much to all of you for the advice. I ended up going with the 98 Gosset Celebris Rose, which I thought was a sensational wine, and it was a big hit with my fiancée (yes, she said "yes"!) and with the chef. The chef ordered himself a bottle beforehand and designed a course specifically for it: foie gras, cooked for a long time at a VERY low temp and then seared, with blueberry, chocolate (and another element or two - i don't have the menu in front of me). We had a glass or two at the beginning as an aperitif and as a pairing with that course, and then had a glass at the end of the meal as we chatted with the chef in the kitchen. It was a stupendous occasion, and you guys helped make it that way. Thanks. Fri Jan 18 13:06:49 -0800 2008 3202371 16451 mhoffman 2 3309691 Oh, what a beautiful wine. I love the Celebris, both regular and Rose. Thanks for the update and description of the evening, and I'm so glad she said yes! Happy marriage! Fri Jan 18 14:14:02 -0800 2008 3309410 18222 maria lorraine 2 3310186 Congratulations! (And a great wine choice, too . . . ) I wish you both all the best! Fri Jan 18 16:38:52 -0800 2008 3309410 28122 zin1953