Gougères

[JoanN]

I’ve been making gougères for more years than I care to remember. I’ve tried recipes from JC, Michael Field, Gourmet, Zuni. They’re always good, but I never thought they were truly great. Some were a bit too thin to pipe easily. Others just didn’t have enough flavor. Mostly, they just weren’t cheesy enough. I can never get enough cheese.

So, for a party this weekend, I’m making Zuni’s New Year’s Eve Gougères and decided to try yet another recipe. I just stumbled across this from Alain Ducasse.

http://tinyurl.com/29jsb8

Absolutely the best so far. It’s a fairly thick dough that’s very easy to pipe, resulting in a far more attractive shape than the ones I’d made with the Zuni recipe. He uses half whole milk and half water instead of all water and I think the milk helps to enhance the cheese flavor and make the gougères a bit richer. And he does use more Gruyere than most recipes—3½ ounces rather than the 2 that is often called for.

I know a number of Hounds made gougères for Thanksgiving and if any of you made one you thought was really extraordinary, I’d be curious to hear how it compares ingredients-wise to this one. I’m always willing to try a new gougères recipe. But this one will be the new standard against which others will be held.

[lemons]

I am in agreement; they're never cheesy enough, except for some I had in Burgundy from some caterer or other a decade or more ago. But they would know how, then, wouldn't they?

So I just did this recipe. Cave-aged French gruyere,$13/lb, beautifully sharp to taste. Extra black pepper. And I was still disappointed. Finally, as the second batch was about half-way through baking, it dawned on me: Needed more salt. So next time I'll do that. And next time, I'm going to forego the pastry bag and return to the old teaspoon dipped in water. I just hate washing out pastry bags. Not sure if this will help anyone, but at least it's a note to myself. And the last batch, currently in the oven, I ground extra pepper over. Let's see what that does.

[angelsmom]

I have heard that Dories are superb, as well as, Francois Payards.....let me know if I can help.

[JoanN]

Actually, Dorie's recipe is almost exactly the same as Ducasse's but she adds an additional egg which I think unnecessary. She also uses a bit more cheese, but I add more cheese to the Ducasse recipe anyway.

I don't have Payard's book, but I've read a couple of reviews of the recipe, one from an Amazon book reviewer and one from a blogger, saying that it just doesn't work.

[angelsmom]

I have read only great reviews...which is why I bought his book Bite Size.

He uses no water...5 eggs...5ounces of cream and 3 1/2 cups gruyere.

[thimes]

Have you made his recipe? I had to look it up (I have the book) because his ratio seemed so different. I can't image how it works

3 1/2 cups flour
5 eggs (a little over a cup)
5 oz (a little over 1/2 cup)
3 1/2 cups cheese.

It seems like these would be tough heavy flour bombs. I may have to try it as his other books are quite good.

[angelsmom]

No, I have not made them...but read many good reviews on them.
There s also 1 cup of water in them.

[thimes]

Few. I must have missed the water. Maybe I'll give them a try.

[JoanN]

Maybe there are a few different Payard recipes out there? No water in this one. http://cookbad.blogspot.com/2008/03/g... which she says is from the book. And this is the blog post (along with the Amazon review) that made me think I didn't need to try it. Will be very curious to read a report if you do try them, thimes. And also to know what recipe you use.

[angelsmom]

There is no water listed in the ingredients, but scroll down to line 2 of the instructions and it is there.......most confusing.

[millygirl]

To all the experts out there - how are they supposed to be inside??

I just finished making them and although they taste good and puffed up nicely I think I went wrong somewhere somehow.

Mine would be best described as hollow in the middle. Is that how their supposed to be?

[Gloriaa]

Yes! Light and airy, I guess very airy. That is exactly what you are looking for. Congrats!

[millygirl]

Who knew :) Thanks Gloriaa!!! They are mighty tasty.

[lemons]

Remember, this is basically the same dough you'd use for cream puffs or eclairs - minus, of course, the cheese. Hollow inside is perfect.

[thimes]

I've never made Ducasse's recipe but I did look at it and the ratios are what I always use (with the exception of the butter) - I wish more recipes included ratios . . . . but that is another thread.

My go to ratio for gougeres (and Ducasse's):

1:1:1:1

1 part liquid (water, milk, combo): 1 part egg (4 eggs=1 cup): 1 part flour: 1 part butter (he is using 1/2 cup or 1/2 part - I use more)

I like the ratio because I can make them with whatever I have around. If I have two eggs - I just crack them into a measuring cup and use that as my measure (no matter if it is 1/2 cup, 1/4 cup, etc, etc, etc).

This ratio works every time for me - add a little sugar and use for dessert - add a little cheese and use for gougeres - etc, etc . . . .

[lemons]

I assume folks have tried gougeres made with something other than gruyere. How did that go?

[JoanN]

I've made them with both comté and pecorino, but prefer them with cave-aged gruyère. Any hard, sharp cheese would work. I'm sure they'd be good with cheddar, but I don't care for most of the cheddars that are readily available.

[Gloriaa]

I am pretty sure that Comte is aged gruyere and is of a higher quality and price.

[JoanN]

Yes, it is. In fact, I've seen it sold in France as Gruyère de Comté. I wouldn't buy it specifically for making gougères. Too expensive. But I had some leftover once. Made a damn good gougères. The cheaper cave-aged Gruyère is good enough for me.

[C. Hamster]

Comte is not aged gruyere. It's French gruyere.

"Gruyere" is a term that can only be used with cheese that is made in Switzerland.

The French make a cheese very similar to gruyere but cannot call it that, hence "Comte."

Like gruyere and other hard cheeses Comte can be had in varying ages, qualities and price points.

[JoanN]

Very interesting. I didn't realize that. But I have seen a cheese in France called "Gruyère de Comté." So I guess they can use "Gruyère" as long as it's accompanied by"Comté"?

[C. Hamster]

They've been fighting over this for quite a long time and to further add to the confusion I just found this: http://mobile.dairyreporter.com/Regul...

[thimes]

I made some just the other week with manchego and black pepper - they were excellent.

[Tehama]

Good success with gouda!

[Tehama]

Thanks so much for the recommendation on the Ducasse recipe. They turned out perfectly last evening. Meant to take a photo, but what could capture the essence of that lovely cheese puff? Flawless recipe. THanks!

[JoanN]

Can't tell you how happy it makes me when these old threads that I've completely forgotten about return to life--especially when it's a success story such as yours, Tehama. Thanks for coming back and reporting.

[Tehama]

What a sweet note! I feel the same way about I see "oldies" coming back to life - reminds me of when I first joined CH!

[Tom P]

I also tried the Alain Ducasse Gougères. Wow. So good and so simple!

Understand, first, that I am not a baker. Other than gravy, I tend to avoid anything that involves flour. It is not my strong suit. So if I can make something like this work, anyone can. Also, not being a baker, I have no pastry bag (though I will get one now) so I just made lumpy dollops of dough on the baking sheet with a spoon. They still came out terrific! My friends last night loved them.

A couple of slight changes: I think I used more cheese than called for, which was not a problem. And I used a LOT more than a pinch of black pepper, which also was great. I will probably use more next time. I used raw, whole milk as well.

I encourage anyone to try them!

[beetlebug]

Re: the pastry bag. I haven't tried this yet, but I was reading about another gougere recipe (I think from the Boston Globe). Anyway, the author suggested putting the dough in a big zip loc bag, twisting the bag at the top in a diagonal manner and then cutting a bottom corner off. Squeeze the dough out of the corner. There was a little photo to accompany the text and it looked interesting.

[MMRuth]

I do that sometimes - v. easy, though I do put a pastry tip in the bag.

[Tom P]

Great idea, thanks! I am making them again tonight, I will give it a try.

[beetlebug]

Great. And since MMRuth has done this successfully, I'm sure it will work beautifully. So many things to cook, so little time.

[RUNNERFEMME]

Hi, all. new to this site, but it's terrific. coming a bit late to this party, but would like to add 2 gougeres recipes worth trying -- i just made them for the first time last week. Gordon Hamersley"s recipe from Bistro Cooking at Home was a cinch. Also uses 1/2 c milk, which I think enhanced cheesey-dairy flavor. Also tried Susan Loomis recipe from French Farm House Cookbook. Liked Hamersley's better - but took a cue from Loomis and tossed in minced chives and added a bit more cheese. Really wonderful. LOVE this site.

[cjc519]

I'm going to have another go at making these... my first attempt didn't seem to work out. I'm going todo a test try of the Alain Ducasse recipe and see how it goes since I'm planning on serving these at a party on Weds. night. Quick question... it says to bake them and then refrigerate them if not using right away, do I need to refrigerate? Also, if I'm serving them on Weds. would I be better off freezing them already cooked and then reheating? Thanks!

[JoanN]

Not sure I'm getting your timing here. But since they freeze so beautifully, and reheat so quickly, why not just freeze them and be sure. Reheat the frozen gougeres in a preheated 425-degree oven for 3 to 4 minutes. Every bit as good as fresh out of the oven.

[cjc519]

I'm very excited to report... I did it! After my first failed attempt, I made some really lovely (and delicious) gougeres! I used the Alain Ducasse recipe and they came out perfectly. I did go ahead and cook them fully, so what's the best way to store them to make sure they're fresh for Wednesday? And.... will I need to reheat them or are they ok room temperature? Thank you:) BTW, I'm really glad I didn't let my initial discouragement keep me from making these again... so many good tips from all of you (as usual).

[JoanN]

Congratulations! Next you'll be telling us about your croquembouche!

I always make them further ahead of the event than you did, so I freeze and reheat as I noted above. Since they do freeze so well, I probably wouldn't take the chance they'd go stale and would freeze them even just overnight. They reheat so quickly, and they're so good that way, I would serve them out of the oven. They'll come to room temperature quickly enough, but they're such a delight while they're still hot you might as well give your guests that pleasure.

[ErikaZ]

I just saw a recipe on the Food Network and they say to reheat at 350 degrees for 10 minutes if chilled or 15 minutes if frozen.

What would the difference be? (I'm a novice to freezing-reheating.) Thanks!

[JoanN]

I can't tell you what the difference would be, or if there even is one, because I've only reheated baked, frozen gougères at 425 for 3 or 4 minutes. And since that's always worked for me, I think I'll stick with it. It's entirely possible there'd be no difference at all.

[jenhen2]

I made these last week using the recipe from Cooks Illustrated (off the web site - I don't remember which issue it was in). Anyway, it was fabulous!

[JoanN]

Do you still have access to the recipe (I don't)? Could you post the list of ingredients, please? Thanks.

[jenhen2]

Sure! See below for the ingredients. The directions are pretty much the same as all the others for this sort of recipe. These really are the best I've tried, though. Enjoy!

2 large eggs , plus 1 large egg white
6 tablespoons water
5 tablespoons unsalted butter , cut into 10 pieces
2 tablespoons whole milk
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup unbleached all-purpose flour (2 1/2 ounces), sifted
3 ounces Gruyère, Emmentaler, or Swiss cheese , shredded (about 1 cup)
Pinch cayenne pepper

[JoanN]

That's really interesting. First, it makes half the amound of dough of most gougères recipes. Just curious why that would be so. And I've never seen a recipe calling for addional egg whites. It's a bit more butter than usual, but not all that much; and more than double the amount of cheese. Definitely adding this to the to-try list. Thanks, jenhen2.

[jenhen2]

Anytime! In the article, Cooks Illustrated says that the extra white makes it a little more crispy, which I found to be true. Also, it says in the article to put the eggs together, mix them up and then pour out any more than 1/2 cup. That's an important detail I forgot to mention!

Also, I used a small cookie dough scoop and it made about 30 2-bite puffs which I served with shrimp cocktail and was perfect for my party of 7 people.

[patz]

has anyone tried the recipe from the Tartine cookbook? i was thinking of making these for a party this weekend...

[foodandscience]

The one I use is from Leite's Culinaria. There is no milk, yet they are very rich and its quite a thick dough. Thick enough that I use a small scooper to make evenly sized puffs. This recipe calls for 6 oz. cheese, water, butter, salt, egg, flour, dry mustard, and a touch of cayenne. Very easy. I love these. I'm going to try one of these other recipes though. I like to try different types of cheeses too. Mine can't have enough cheese either! I'll try AD's recipe and get back to you. I've got a holiday party on Saturday to try these out.

[JoanN]

Oooh, that does look good. Six ounces! Terrific. Depending on what I'm using them for, I do like to add a hint of cayenne. And Michael Field, who also uses cheddar, adds some dry mustard, too. I won't get around to trying these real soon, but I'll be very curious to hear how you think the AD recipe compares.

[Carb Lover]

Here's a link to the Leite's recipe by Tori Ritchie:
http://www.leitesculinaria.com/recipe...

I've heard others praise this recipe in the past. I've yet to try my hand at gougeres, but this thread is inspiring me to!

[JoanN]

I assume from past posts, Carb Lover, that you have the Zuni Cafe cookbook. Her New Year's Eve Gougères are a real treat. Whatever recipe you use for the gougères itself, the addition of bacon, arugula, and pickled onions (another Zuni recipe that I always keep on hand) is right up there with the best hors d'ourvres ever.

[Carb Lover]

Oh yeah, I have the book and drool over the picture periodically. I'll keep them in mind for upcoming parties, and they seem like a fantastic addition to brunch!

Link to Zuni recipe:
http://www.leitesculinaria.com/recipe...

[leanneabe]

I actually prefer Tori Ritchie's recipe to the Zuni recipe... for some reason the dough behaves better. And of course, they're delicious to pop in your mouth!

[OysterHo]

I haven't made these since the late 80's - and I loved them!

Do you think this recipe would be good with a standing rib roast? I forgot how easy this was to make.

[JoanN]

I've only ever served gougères as an hors d'oeuvre. Do you mean serve it as your bread product instead of, for instance, popovers? Very interesting idea. And I don't see why not.

[OysterHo]

Yes, right, instead of popovers. They're kind of hollow, aren't they? It's been so long, I should make them on a test run first. :D

[MMRuth]

Joan - that's good to know - I've only ever used JC's recipe - will give this a try.

[JoanN]

I just remembered, too, that I used the oldest gruyere Fairway had. The more aged cheese is sharper and less smooth than a younger gruyere and I think that also added to the amped up cheesiness taste.