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Dec 10, 2007 09:15 AM

"Intangibles?": Delfina, Incanto, Oliveto, Quince

Business in mid-January and my wife is joining me.

I've tried to do my due diligence. Judging from reports, menus, websites, etc. it looks like the above named places are the kinds of places I'm seeking and all offer reasonably similar format and price point. However, there's only so much you can glean from the websites.

Is there any reason to choose one of the above over the others? We have three kids under five years-old and we don't get to sink into a dining room chair, relax and linger over a great meal very often. Food is primary concern -- not so much about wine. Transportation is not an issue.

I'm looking for those "intangibles" only local knowledge can share -- anything from appropriate noise level (not that loud is necessarily bad...just don't want to feel stressed or rushed by waiting crowds), comfortably spaced tables, servers savvy enough to look into our eyes, recognize that they tell a tale of lives way too harried and sleepless and guide us through a relaxing and magical evening of cuisine.

Please elaborate which has the qualities to make for the most relaxing and satisfying evening. Thank you for any help!

(Also, as Chowhounds are wont to do, I would certainly listen to alternatives but ask that you filter out the highest-end places. I picked these four because they offer a wide variety of interest and approachable price range).

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  1. Though I love Delfina, given your requests I don't think it fits the bill. It is always crowded and loud. Not an atmosphere I would describe as relaxing. Incanto or Oliveto would be great, haven't tried Quince, though I know it is highly regarded here and I think the atmosphere is more upscale then the rest.

    1. Of these four places, I've only been to Incanto. Sounds like it would be a great place for you.

      I'd add Aziza to your list of possibilities.

      This recent post might be helpful.

      If you do searches for combinations of the places you listed, you'll probably find posts w/ helpful comparisons.

      For example:

      5 Replies
      1. re: Dave MP

        Argh. How could I have missed that third thread? Thank you. Right off the bat, I would say I'm leaning towards Incanto.

        I also meant to add -- the neighborhood of each is a potential plus. Walking around before/after, interesting shops nearby, etc. are a plus. I don't know anything about any of these neighborhoods. For example, we recently ate at Frasca in Boulder, CO (if anyone is familiar...similar genre as these). Wandering around the shops before and after was a plus.

        Thanks again. I know this isn't exactly the most fun/interesting/inspiring type of Q&A on here as all four places would probably be "fine". Nights out are so few and far between nowadays I'm putting maybe undue pressure on myself to get the "perfect" place.

        1. re: MSPD

          I've never been to Oliveto and went to Quince too long ago (2 years, maybe?) to remember it. I like both Delfina and Incanto a lot--I'm going to Delfina tonight and went to Incanto last week, in fact.

          Both have the basic failings of most San Francisco restaurants--too loud, and the tables too close together. However, I think the food at both is great. Delfina seems more classic Cal-Italian; Incanto can be experimental (offal, if you like it), but you can also still to rustic Italian favorites, like pasta with pork ragu.

          For neighborhoods, Incanto is five or six blocks from the main drag of Noe Valley, a pleasant, suburbanish neighborhood. Delfina is on a busy strip of 18th, near Tartine Bakery, and a 5 minute walk from lots of Mission bars and action.

          1. re: pane

            Also: when I thought of your request (really good food at a reasonable price, relaxing evening at a place that isn't too noisy/loud) the first thing that sprang to mind was a very enjoyable trip I had out to Ad Hoc, Thomas Keller's new place in Yountville, if you are willing to head that far afield.

            A friend came out to visit last month and we had a fabulous time there--my report is in this thread:

            1. re: pane

              Actually, I feel like Incanto belongs in some suburb because the restaurant interior is so spacious by San Francisco standards. I don't feel like the tables are cramped at all there, though I definitely agree that Delfina is cramped, and I'm hard-pressed to think of a restaurant that would be more cramped than Delfina.

              Neighborhood-wise, I'd say Olivetto has the best strolling potential, but it's across the bay and I really didn't enjoy my recent meal there. I'd go to Incanto.

              1. re: SteveG

                I agree that Oliveto is in a more interesting neighborhood than Incanto, (Delfina is in a more interesting, if slightly edgier neighborhood than either) but that yes, the food is better at Incanto than at Oliveto (IMO). Standards vary, I guess, on table closeness, because I find many of the tables at Incanto to be more closely spaced than I like (though better than Delfina).

                I haven't been to Quince, but my guess is that it might be more what you are looking for...

                If it isn't too pricey, I'd also consider Acquerello...

                Incanto Restaurant & Wine Bar
                1550 Church St, San Francisco, CA 94131

                Delfina Restaurant
                3621 18th St, San Francisco, CA 94110

                Quince Restaurant
                470 Pacific Av, San Francisco, CA 94133

                Acquerello Restaurant
                1722 Sacramento St., San Francisco, CA 94109

                Oliveto Cafe
                5655 College Ave., Oakland, CA 94618

        2. From your description, it sounds like you'd enjoy the refinement and elegance of Quince. It's more of a fine dining experience than the rest. For my money, I LOVE the food at Oliveto, but it sounds like the atmosphere is just as important for you, and Quince certainly has that intangible quality that makes the diner feel cared for and special.

          1 Reply
          1. re: Aaron

            I agree about Quince. Of the group, it is the most "special occasion" place. I think Incanto is my favorite one of the restaurants for food, but I always say that I think they must beat the servers before each shift. I've not encountered any that seem to enjoy what they are doing. They are efficient and competent, but there isn't any passion coming from the front of the house. Not the case at Quince.

          2. I have been to all four several times. Oliveto has the best immediate neighborhood to stroll around in after dinner. Delfina and Incanto are more casual than the other two and certainly louder. Incanto does amazing variety of meats and pastas. Quince is the most elegant, refined quiet and quaint. It's one of my "go to" restaurants. The downside is that there is no window shopping right near by, though a 4 block stroll puts you on Fillmore St.

            7 Replies
            1. re: grubber4

              I have also been to all four several times. Of your choices, Quince has the quietest dining room, the best service, and the most elegant food. Given your wish for "servers savvy enough to look into our eyes, recognize that they tell a tale of lives way too harried and sleepless and guide us through a relaxing and magical evening of cuisine," the choice isn't even close.

              1. re: Paul H

                I agree. I really liked Incanto, but I definitely would not describe the servers we had to be like this.

                1. re: Dave MP

                  Thank you all for your generous input so far. A couple of questions about Quince specifically:

                  - I chuckled when I pulled up the web site...the photo that comes up is three two-top tables practically on top of one another. Is this typical of the whole place or just done for photographic effect? Granted, my wife is the one that has to shimmy back into the seating along the wall, but that looks a bit cozy.

                  - The sample menu on the site is from Spring/Summer. Anyone have any more recent experiences to share or idea of what kinds of dishes they serve in the winter?

                  1. re: MSPD

                    My wife took me a couple of days ago for my birthday, here's what we ate:
                    Mackerel Tartar
                    Dungenes Crab Salad with Red Grapefruit
                    Pumpkin Soup
                    Raviolo di Ricotta with Egg and Brown Butter (this one was just absurdly good)
                    Beet Lasagnette with Monkfish and White Shrimp (amazing flavors and textures in this dish)
                    Gnocchi with Veal Meatballs (the most refined "comfort" food I think I've ever eaten)
                    -I'm blanking on the name of the pasta...sort of a small penne with pointed ends...with a Smoked Eel sauce (I thought my wife would fall under the table she loved it so much)

                    As I recall the third course selections featured duck and lamb.

                    Obviously, I'm a fan of the place. I have the rest of the menu at home and I'll post the other things they had on the dinner menu from Saturday night when I have time this evening.

                    There are some tables that are close together, but we've been seated in that set of three in the photo the last two times we've eaten at Quince and haven't felt cramped nor have we felt we couldn't hear each other or that we were forced to listen to others' conversations.

                    1. re: ccbweb

                      I've posted the full menu from Saturday night (the 8th) on a new thread:

                      1. re: ccbweb

                        You pretty much had me at mackerel -- among my favorite fish. Thank you for taking the time to post the above list and the full menu (which looks outstanding).

                        Happy belated birthday. It just so happens this will be mine as well.

                        1. re: MSPD

                          The mackerel was really quite something...served on toast with fennel and radish (I think those were tossed with lemon and olive oil). The tartar was faintly spicy and the texture was incredible. I could happily have eaten about 3 orders of it (and not because it was small, which it really wasn't). Happy birthday to you, too!

            2. I've not been to Incanto, and while all 3 are good, the dining room at Quince is the most refined in my view. It is quiet and there is an effort to provide an elegant experience. I think the food at Delfina is great, but it is quite crowded and noisier. I've not been to Oliveto in awhile, but my sense there was the same. You will enjoy the food at all 4, but that wasn't the question, was it! I will agree with the mention of Aziza - we were there for dinner on Saturday night and it was excellent. I love chicken basteeya so that is a must for me - the lamb chops were excellent. They have interesting cocktails and I have always had very professional service there. You might think of that as an either/or.
              Enjoy your visit!