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Help me choose - Aziza/Kokkari/O Chame/Limon or...?

l
LSteffel Dec 6, 2007 09:42 AM

I'll be in the Bay Area for a week in December and need help narrowing down a lengthy list of restaurants. I grew up in the Bay Area but live in NYC now, so I am craving inventive food that is not common in NY. I am looking for something creative (while I like 'purist' foods, I can often replicate them on my own, so I want to be blown away by something I can't recreate!). NYC has great Italian, Spanish/Tapas, & French, so they're not a high priority for me, but I'm open to suggestion... that said, here are the menus that have most piqued my attention, what are your thoughts?:

-Aziza
-Kokkari
-Limon (any recs for other inventive latin restaurants?)
-O Chame
-Chez Panisse (just b/c I've never been - to save money, is it safe to stick to the cafe?)
-Foreign Cinema (also for the environment - how is the food lately?)

Other restaurants I've thought about, but think I might be able to find equally good/similar spots in NY, are:

TAPAS - tapas are great in NY, though I do love Piperade in SF... what are your thoughts on:
Zarzuela, Laiola, Cesar, or others?

ITALIAN - again, great in NY - is it worth giving up one of my top choices above to visit:
Ducca, Incanto, Oliveto, A Cote, A16, or others?

OTHER - is it criminal to miss out on any of these, or some other place I'm missing?:
Quince, Canteen, Bar Crudo, Coi

just to give you perspective, my favorite meals in SF over the past few years have been at Sushi Ran, Myth, Piperade, and Jardiniere (and Taqueria La Bamba, my favorite ever in mtn view)

  1. Morton the Mousse Dec 6, 2007 02:19 PM

    Aziza is a truly fantastic restaurant serving a style of food that you wont find anywhere else. Highly recommended.

    2 Replies
    1. re: Morton the Mousse
      Dave MP Dec 6, 2007 04:20 PM

      I second the vote for Aziza.

      1. re: Morton the Mousse
        k
        kresge86 Dec 7, 2007 08:33 AM

        Third vote for Aziza. Based on your criteria, I think this is your best choice. Incredible food, that's an interesting "California-ized" version of Moroccan food.

      2. pane Dec 6, 2007 02:32 PM

        This is a nice post from a visitor--note well, everyone who asks "I'm visiting in two weeks. Where should I eat?"

        Of your proposed list, the one restaurant that sticks out to me as not fitting is Foreign Cinema. It's perfectly OK, nice to have in my neighborhood, but not something I'd travel across town (much less across the country) to experience.

        My general preference is for tiny places that feel special: Bar Crudo and Canteen are favorites of mine, but the second is French-influenced, so if you're not after that you may want to skip it. I love Incanto.

        3 Replies
        1. re: pane
          Dave MP Dec 6, 2007 04:19 PM

          Consider eating lunch or brunch at Canteen.

          1. re: pane
            susancinsf Dec 6, 2007 04:25 PM

            Kokkari also stood out for me: just not worth investing out of town time, IMO. Agreed with those that Aziza is truly unique; I'd definitely keep it on your list! Great food, great cocktails...

            1. re: susancinsf
              foodseek Dec 7, 2007 10:05 PM

              So true about the cocktails at Aziza. Menu for drinks which are prepared thoughfully and are delicious. I loved their sangria and it was terrific to sip throughout the meal. I don't think you will be disappointed with Aziza-great service as well.

          2. c
            Cary Dec 6, 2007 04:10 PM

            Aziza is a good choice.
            The Chez Panisse "Cafe" can be misleading as the quality of food and prices are still high. So it's a good alternative if you want to save a little money and want more choice compared to Chez Panisse the "restaurant"
            If you're not only considering SF proper, Manresa in the South Bay has deservingly received many accolades (including two stars from michelin if you're into that) and the tasting menu is worth a visit.

            1. daveena Dec 6, 2007 05:50 PM

              I always recommend Bar Crudo, Bar Tartine, and Canteen to visitors (esp ones from NY) - they all serve inventive, high quality food in very casual settings (the closest I've seen in NYC to this is Prune). I'm also a fan of Incanto - love the spaghettini with cured tuna heart, the head cheese, and find it always worthwhile to try whatever offal is on the menu that day

              I'll comment on the East Bay places - I think Cafe Chez Panisse is a must (many people prefer it to the restaurant - major advantages over the restaurant, aside from cost, are that it's open for lunch, and the menu is a la carte).

              I really like Cesar and A Cote but probably wouldn't make a special trip to the East Bay to eat there. However, I would recommend them if you're already going to be in the East Bay. Add Pizzaiolo to the list - pizza with a Chez Panisse pedigree, very different from both NY and Neapolitan models. Re: Cesar I'd go to the new one (on Piedmont) - the menu is more extensive, and has more distinctly Californian items (their standard tapas items are not superior to the ones you'd get in NYC). It's also open for lunch (and all afternoon)

              With the exception of the special dinners, my Oliveto experiences have been too uneven for me to recommend it for an out-of-town visitor.

              Of the restaurants that you named that I have not been to, I think Coi sounds the most intriguing. I feel like I've read negative reviews of O Chame, but I haven't been there myself.

              1. JasmineG Dec 6, 2007 07:30 PM

                I think that it's definitely criminal to miss out on Canteen and Bar Crudo -- Canteen is also great for brunch on the weekends (no reservations), so you could save it for that. I loved Aziza, BUT I would definitely read some past reviews of Aziza by visitors on this board, because there are definitely people who don't like it (the meat tends to have sweet preparations, the prix fixe meal is sometimes too much food for some, etc.). I like both Chez Panisse upstairs and downstairs, but I've enjoyed my meals more upstairs. I would also definitely go to Incanto, really great good, and definitely try the more unusual options on the menu. I like Foriegn Cinema, it's fine, but I wouldn't pick it for one of my meals here (though, I've heard great things about the brunch, so maybe you could do that). Kokkari is one of my favorite places, but it isn't one of the best that San Francisco has to offer; I would go there for lunch instead of dinner, because I've had really excellent lunches there (and definitely get the breads and spreads!).

                If you go to Cesar, go to the Piedmont Avenue location in Oakland instead of the Berkeley location; I really love the Piedmont location, and it's open from noon until midnight(ish), so that might be a good choice for lunch if you're doing a day in the East Bay. I'm also a big fan of A Cote (but it's not Italian) and if you're going to be in the East Bay for a dinner other than CP, go for it, but I wouldn't go out of my way if I was only in the area for a few days and staying elsewhere.

                1. d
                  dinnerout Dec 6, 2007 07:45 PM

                  Okay, I will be a pill and add to the "Other" list - check out Ame. I'd try to find a way to move Ame, Canteen and Bar Crudo into the list...how many dinners can you eat in an evening?

                  1 Reply
                  1. re: dinnerout
                    Mari Dec 7, 2007 08:47 AM

                    I'd eliminate Quice since I think their strength is fresh pasta, which you can get in NYC. I also recommend that you include Aziza. Perhaps you should add Range to your list if there's any room left, but note that Range gets loud.

                    We don't have many inventive Latin restaurants, other than Limon. However, there is a new place that opened up in the Mission called Lolo and the owners are from Mexico. The only other place I can think of right now is Destino, but I am sure you can find similar food in NYC. Also, Mexico DF opened in the Embarcadero area of SF, although it hasn't received very good reviews.

                  2. a
                    ambrosia Dec 7, 2007 09:48 AM

                    I have to second (third, fourth, tenth?) the vote for Aziza of the restaurants you list. As another huge fan of Sushi Ran (though I'm not big on Jardiniere), I think that you can't go wrong with Aziza. It's definitely better than Kokkari (which is inconsistent and not top tier regardless) or Limon (which I've never been that impressed with). If you go to Aziza, you MUST order the spreads (they usually come in the price fixe menu also). This is absolutely the best dish on the menu. I share these with my friends, but I do so only reluctantly! For entrees I recommend either of the lamb dishes (though the lamb shank is sweet, as others have criticized).

                    Quince and Incanto are great for pasta (Quince is better), though you can get that in NYC. Coi is a good restaurant, but also may not be that original compared to the many restaurants back east.

                    I have heard very good things about Bar Crudo, though I have not yet had the chance to go there myself.

                    2 Replies
                    1. re: ambrosia
                      susancinsf Dec 7, 2007 04:35 PM

                      I like the spreads quite a bit, but my favorite items on the menu right now are the cilantro cocktail, the lima beans and the squid appetizer! actually, the halibut is excellent too, and not at all sweet....

                      I showed Aziza off to my friends from Phoenix recently. they loved it. A great place to take out of town guests.

                      1. re: ambrosia
                        a
                        artemis Dec 7, 2007 04:59 PM

                        last time i was there, i had a really fantastic hot mint tea. it came in a glass teapot and was stacked full of fresh herbs, resulting in a fabulous aroma and wonderful taste. they were happy to refill the pot with hot water once i finished the first pot.

                        and yes, the spreads. definitely the spreads. fyi, they are also happy to provide additional toasted pita for the spreads... i don't even think it was added to the bill.

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