Alice Water's Turkey Brine

[MarkC]

I'm planning to try the Alice Water's turkey brine recipe that's linked to this site. I was surprised to see that it calls for whopping 72 hours in the brine. I've never seen a recipe that calls for this much time, and I'm concerned that this will lead to an overbrined, salty turkey (not to mention that I don't have 72 hours until thanksgiving! ). The recipe calls for two cups salt to two gallons water, so it's not as though it's a low sodium brine.

Does anyone have experience with this recipe?

[maplesugar]

According to Alice Waters in The Art of Simple Food: "Turkeys can also be made tastier by being submerged in a seasoned saltwater brine for a day or two, but I no longer bother with brining, especially since more flavourful heritage breeds of turkey have become available again." (p. 350)

So, if you are indeed brining your bird, you only need 24-48hrs according to Waters herself.

Hope that helps (and that the quotes/references are ok w the mods)

Happy Thanksgiving! :)

[Rosepetal]

Hi, I joined this site tonight after a very disappointing Thanksgiving dinner today. I am so thankful that it was just my family and no guests. Basically I used Martha Stewarts Brining recipe and the meat and stuffing were just too salty. My husband and kids liked it because it was moist and tender, but I thought it ruined the flavor of the meat and stuffing. I noticed that you mentioned another method for making a moist turkey. Could you tell me exactly what kind of turkey you use and how you roast it? I may experiment on Christmas because I am definately tired of my turkey being overly salty. This is the second year that this happened. Last year I used emerils brine recipe and again too salty. Any helpful suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Rosepetal

Sincerely,
Raelyn

[cookiehound]

Rosepetal, I use Alton Brown's brine recipe from the Food Network website. It uses 1 gallon of veg. broth, I use store bought quarts, 1 cup of kosher salt, some spices, and you only have to brine it for 12 hours. I usually brine it overnight and it is not salty at all, just nicely flavored. Good Luck!

[diablita FL]

I did exactly the same (minus the spices he calls for b/c my DH doesn't like them) and the turkey turned out wonderfully. We did the same 12 hours here, basically overnight, then I put it in the fridge to air dry from 9 am to 3 pm.

My dad said that in his 60+ years, he's never had such a juicy or tasty turkey! I'd recommend giving it a try next year.

[cookiehound]

Oh yea, I usually let it sit out in the fridge overnight for extra crispy skin. I didn't do that this year and it was a big mistake! You guessed it, flabby skin. Wonderful tasting turkey though.

[C. Hamster]

That's the right amount of salt to water, but that's an awfully long time to keep it in the drink. Equilibrium will have occurred well before 72 hours.

12-16 hours is usually enough.

[Caitlin McGrath]

I have used her brine, but I only brined my turkey for 24 hours, or perhaps a bit less, and I also reduced the salt by a bit, just for my own taste. The seasoning is excellent and I do recommend the recipe if you are brining, but I wouldn't brine a turkey for more than 24 hours.

[emilief]

I have an Alice Waters brine recipe that I cut from a newspaper about 10 years ago. it has two gallons of water,only 3/4 cup salt, 3/4 cup sugar, a leek, carrot, celery,peppercorns, star anise, bay leaves, coriander seeds and fennel seeds. It calls for the turkey to brine 72 hours. I have done this 5 times, the most recent for an early Thanksgiving dinner we had yesterday. As usual, it turned out fabulous. No overly salty tast, nice and moist. So, if you are concerned about the time, don't worry. I believe one year I only soaked it about 60 hours and it was fine.

[cookiegirl]

I'm trying this brine this year for the first time. Should I stuff my turkey or not? If not, should I put herbs, etc. in the cavity when cooking or just leave it empty?

[emilief]

I always stuff the turkey when I brine it. And, with this brine there is no problem using the drippings for gravy. Yum. Enjoy

[cookiegirl]

Thanks emilief! Do you rinse the turkey after taking it out of the brine?

[emilief]

No rinsing! I just wiped it dry. Left it out on the counter in the roasting pan for 2 hours before stuffing it and putting it in the oven. Cooked it breast side down until the last hour, flipped it over for the last hour. No need to baste and it was nice and brown.

[cookiegirl]

Thanks again for sharing your experience! I will report back on Thursday.

[Rosepetal]

I posted earlier about my turkey being too salty. Could you share that recipe that you have with me?

[emilief]

Here is the recipe for Alice Waters' brine
3/4 cup plus 2 tbsp kosher salt\
3/4 cup sugar
1 carrot peeled and diced
1 large onion peeled and diced
1 leek, cleaned and sliced
2 bay leaves
1 tbsp black peppercorns
1 tbsp coriander seeds
1/4 tsp red pepper flakes
1/4 tsp fennel seeds
2 star anise
2-3 sprigs fresh thyme

In a large stockpot (16 quart or more) bring 2 gallons of water to a boil. Add salt and sugar and stir until dissolved.Turn off heat and add veggies, then herbs and spices. Refrigerate till cold.
Remove giblets from turkey. Add turkey to stock pot. Weigh down with a plate if neccessary to keep turkey below the brine's surface. Refrigerate 72 hours, then remove from brine and allow turkey to come to foom temperature.

The recipe calls for 12-14 lb turkey. I have used 16- 18 lb turkey with this recipe. It has never been too salty. I stuff the turkey and use the drippings for gravy without any problem. No discernible salty taste and no noticeable change in turkey texture. Hope this works for you.

[cookiegirl]

This brine (minus the star anise) worked very well with my 12 pound heritage turkey. I brined for just over 24 hours and the meat was moist and flavorful, but not at all salty. The gravy it made? Wow!!! Really really good, albeit a tad salty. I also stuffed the turkey and didn't find the stuffing salty either.

[emilief]

Glad to hear that it turned out well!!!

[Joe MacBu]

I have not use the Waters/Chez Panisse recipe per se, but have used a similar strength brine. Assuming the recipe calls for table salt, that's a ~5% brine (meaning 5 grams salt per 100mL of water). 2 cups table salt is about 375 grams (I just weighed out some Diamond table salt) and 2 gallons water equals 7570 mL.

I have used a 5% brine for 36 hours on a 16 pound turkey and have not found it to be salty (but I also add some brown sugar to the brine which can mask some of the saltiness). I would actually push it up to 48 hours. However, I would be hesitant to do a full 72 hours. If you can only do 24-36 hours, the turkey will still come out fine. If you don't have that much time, then consider increasing the salt concentration to 6-8%. Even a few hours of brining is better than none because while the brine won't permeate as deep into the meat, it's the outer surfaces that overcook and dry out first.

Make sure to rinse the turkey surface and cavity well under running water after the brining, especially if you plan to make gravy from the pan drippings.

Kosher salt and table salt have different densities. 1 cup of table salt weighs more than 1 cup of kosher salt (and different kosher salt brands have different densities). The best thing to do is to weigh them out for the desired concentration. For a rough guide, 1cp table salt = 1.5cp Morton kosher salt = 2cp Diamond kosher salt.

[MarkC]

Thanks for tips. I will probably brine for 24 hours and air dry another 24 in the fridge.

One more question. I was planning to deep fry the turkey. This method is supposed to keep the turkey meat moist. Does this make brining unnecessary?

[Joe MacBu]

Deep frying will make brining less necessary. However, brining will still result in a moister turkey since it causes more water molecules to be bound to the proteins. An adequate salt concentration will also partially denature (unfold) the proteins so that the meat will be more tender as well.

[HunterJay]

I respectfully disagree. I've deep fried brined and unbrined turkeys. While the unbrined is still moist the flavor of the brine is definitely a plus.
In regards to the OP. I brine for around 3 days (put in brine last night) and never had a problem. I use one cup kosher salt to 1 gallon of water then throw in whatever I have laying around (apple cider vinegar, apple juice, some onions, parsely, basil, oregano).

[Joe MacBu]

I don't see any disagreement here; I'm advocating the brining.

How does a sugar-containing brine affect a deep fried turkey? I'm guessing that the skin would brown faster due to the sugar caramelization; would the bird get too dark before it is fully cooked?. I've read that sugar should be excluded for high heat roasting. Would that apply to deep frying as well?

[CLLLAL]

The brining, besides for flavour, it's also for moisture that you dont need to bast it when roasting. 27 hours I think it's way too long, a mere 10 hours is enough to produce whatever result you want, you are not making a salted turkey. For flavour, I always add different spices, like corriander, allspice, star anise, peppercorn, ginger, and herbs to the brine, you can really taste them in the cooked turkey

[kwe730]

I always get fresh turkeys from my butcher and this was the first year I brined. The consensus around the table was that it made no difference. I didn't get the nice brown, crispy skin I usually do in fact the top of the bird started to scorch very soon after I put it in.

Last year I used this recipe, but without the brine and it was terrific. This year I did the brine and I didn't think it was as good. Next year I'll do it without the brine.

http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/foo...

[tootsie403]

I'll never do a roast turkey any othe way. Alice Water's Turkey Brine always produces moist, tasty turkey which draws raves from my guests. They've had to ask for a piece to take home. Just follow the recipe; it's not salty at all, just well seasoned. and don't forget to make turkey vegetable soup with the leavings - it's just incredibly good. Be wary of flavored turkey breeds - you don't know what gunk they inject into those birds.

[StheJ]

I agree with tootsie403... I always brine by turkey for 48 hours in aw's recipe at
http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/spe... minus the juniper berries and the allspice (I just don't like the flavor/prefer a more traditional simpler bird for thanksgiving) and they always come out quite well.

[jford212]

I've done her recipe the last five years, and I think the three days makes a difference.(so does the star anise). The skin browns up to an amazing color, and the effect of the brine as far as flavor goes stays subtle--but the moistness of the meat is amazing, and you get spectacular gravy. I don't think it's any harder to brine for three days instead of two, and I just assume you're getting more penetration in all that time. Too short a time and the sugar and salt leech all the moisture out. My only slightly unhappy experience was paying a fortune for a heritage turkey. I've heard this from restaurants, too. They have less meat and, strangely enough, less flavor than domesticated white turkeys. I've got a conscience, so I'm sticking with a pastured turkey. Brine away and best of luck.