What menu items need to be retired?

[Its Still Mooing]

Here is my question:

I would like to know what everyone thinks is the most overused, tired, long-gone, or generally disliked food trend that needs to be retired? I hope I get some replies on this because there are a few which I would love to see go the way of the dinosaur.

Spinach & artichoke dip
Tuna tartare
Tilapia
calling anything between two buns a "burger", for example, a chicken burger

I would be interested to find out what others are tired of seeing.

Thanks!

[Halcyonwing]

I think it silly to call tilapia a trend when some of us (Asians in particular) regard tilapia as a food staple and have since the 40's or so. I for one am glad tilapia finally made its way to Western menus, though the way some restaurants here cook it is nothing short of hilarious (the fish is still best cooked simply in my opinion, and wrapped in a banana leaf in coconut milk and ginger? Divine. Yech to breaded or crumbed) Plus as a sustainable fish that is being eyed in aquaculture to ease food shortage in poor countries, it's a fish I approve the use of.

[drongo]

It's interesting to me that although the tilapiines are native to Africa, most are now produced through aquaculture in Asia (esp. China). When I was a child (growing up in Africa), Tilapia spp. were the wild fish we used to catch (or try to catch...) in local lakes.

[Halcyonwing]

I'd often wondered how the taste of African tilapia was. I remember reading that the Egyptians were said to have been the first to culture them in ponds. The bad thing about their introduction to some of the Asian countries is that they've had a negative impact on the ecosystem.

[noodlepoodle]

Chain pizza restaurants with their disgusting stuffed crust pizza, to say nothing of their meat-lover's pizza, and their cheesy bread sticks. Who on earth wants to eat bread sticks as an app for pizza?

Melted cheese on everything.

[gingershelley]

I think we should start a new '2012' edition of 'Menu items that need to be retired"!

Mods? Can you lock this one and let us start another since this is sooooo long?

It is SO entertaining - and I can hardly believe in reading through it today how long some of these awful trends have stuck around so long...

But surely, we can get on with a more current list, such as the bacon-bashing above from It's still mooing, and stuffed crust pizza by dianne0712.

Pretty much, if it is on Applebee's menu, or chili's, or Outback, it probably is not on a CH'ers radar.

What IS on our 'so over it" lists these days?

[Its Still Mooing]

Wow. This thread has had some longevity.

I'm over bacon everything!

[dianne0712]

That's because we will always have restaurants want to sell us whatever is trendy or so tried and true they can't bedistinguished from any other eatery. Personally I get sick of ingredients more than dishes. Currently I am deeply annoyed by the prevalence of quinoa, edamame, and most of all sweet potatoes. It is possible to make a dish without these things - honest. Oh, and everyone can forget they ever heard the word umami! LOL

[cosmogrrl]

Just thought of another one, chicken tortilla soup. Most of the ones I've tasted are bland and un interesting with no spice, heat, etc. It can be very good but it's just so overdone and badly at that.

[Sandwich_Sister]

This is a good one. I agree, they taste nothing like chicken tortilla soup and there is just no spice to them.

[thew]

i rarely order it, it isnt that common on NYC menus, but the places i do order it is full of spice.....

[cosmogrrl]

Congrats on getting post 666 Thew! ;)

It's everywhere here in SF. In the corner Deli's, some restaurants, soup cafes, in cans on the grocery store shelves; it's hard to miss! Many of these places have made it so bland (enblanded it? ;) that it lacks any real taste.

[gmm]

Someone else mentioned it back in 2007, but I guess I didn't notice it then. I am sick of seeing pomegranate in everything. Same goes for acai'.

[slopfrog]

My biggest complaints with restaurant menus is when they misrepresent what they are selling. While I'm no super gourmet and am far from snooty, I know decent food. Serving terrible quality, bastardized items to your customers (most of whom will not send them back) is a dishonest business practice in my opinion. I always ask the server to avoid confusion. Sometimes they get aggravated, but if they do I have almost always caught them trying to pass something gross off. Here's some good examples:

GREEN key lime pie.

"Coconut cake" that is really nothing more than a boxed yellow cake with canned vanilla frosting and some toasted coconut flakes out of a bag thrown on.

"Tea" whose color, aroma, and flavor wasn't in leaf format in the very recent past.

Hot chocolate that comes from a powder with freeze dried marshmallows in it.

"Grouper" that is mysteriously only 1/2" thick, and doesn't have large chunks of muscle in it.

For that matter, any "grouper" that the restaurant can't name by species.

For that matter, any "fish" that the restaurant can't name by species.

Shrimp that comes from a sewage pond in southeast asia.

"Crab" that has a pink membrane on it before it's even cooked.

Root beer that comes from a soda fountain and contains caffeine, amongst other noxious ingredients. (Yes, I am aware that real root beer cannot even be sold in the U.S. I can at least demand a decent imitation.)

Margarine or margarine blends instead of butter.

Breakfast items like muffins, O.J., bagels, english muffins, etc. that are nothing more than a supermarket brand resold to me for 1000% markup.

I'm sure I'm forgetting lots of others.

[Firegoat]

But A&W root beer has that frosty mug taste

[alkapal]

there are real root beers sold in the u.s. -- some i've seen on tap.

[Sandwich_Sister]

Chicken Alfredo

Any of those silly 1,000 dollar cheese steaks, hamburger, chocolate fudge sundae type things.

Someone mentions crab ragoon and I always wondered about it's origin. because it never really seemed Chinese to me, a quick look at wikipedia confirms my suspicions. I had thought that cream cheese is not something you see in SEA.

chips and salsa at establishments like steakhouses

and A1 sauce, I just don't get it, I don't get it at all.

[thew]

rangoon isnt in china......

[Sandwich_Sister]

Yep, that's what I said.

[alkapal]

i think crab rangoon was an invention of trader vic....

[monkeyrotica]

I hold in front of me the Trader Vic's Pacific Island Cookbook (1968). He does not claim to have invented it, but it has been on the Trader Vic menu since 1957. Since creamcheese is not native to Burma, I'm inclined to agree with you. I still say they're pretty tasty and an essential part of a puu puu platter. Great. Now I want puu puu platter.

[thew]

but the british do use cream cheese, and burma was a colony

[alkapal]

monkeyrotica, did you ever make it to the trader vic's here in d.c.? in the capital hilton..... lots of puu puu! and luau drinks....

[monkeyrotica]

Sadly before my time. I was, however, fortunate enough to sample the cocktails of David Chan, the former bartender at the DC Trader Vics, when he ran Honolulu, which has since closed. He still sells his mixes online.

http://www.time2tiki.com/about.htm

http://www.tikiroom.com/tikicentral/b...

[mels]

Chicken Caesar Salad.

I wouldn't even nominate Caesar salad if people made it the real way. I am thinking your typical chain restaurant bastardization with bottled creamy Caesar dressing and no zing from anchovies. Yuck. However, if someone is making the real deal, then count me in.

[thew]

the "real" way does not contain anchovies. just saying......

[jmckee]

Absolutely true. No anchovies other than what is used in the making of Worcestershire sauce.

[monkeyrotica]

the original Worcestershire Sauce did not contain anchovies. just saying...

[thew]

from wiki:

Lea & Perrins original recipe

The ingredients of a traditional bottle of Worcestershire sauce sold in the UK as "The Original & Genuine Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce" are malt vinegar (from barley), spirit vinegar, molasses, sugar, salt, anchovies, tamarind extract, onions, garlic, spice, and flavouring.[8] The "spice, and flavouring" is believed to include cloves, soy sauce, lemons, pickles and peppers.[8] Notes from the 1800s were found by company accountant Brian Keogh dumped in a skip, which he rescued. The documents are to be placed on display at the Worcestershire Museum.[8] Apart from distribution for its home market, Lea & Perrins supplies this recipe in concentrate form to be bottled abroad.[8]

or if you prefer - from the lea and perrins site:
Ingredients: Vinegar, Molasses, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Anchovies, Water, Onions, Salt, Garlic, Tamarind Concentrate, Cloves, Natural Flavorings, Chili Pepper Extract

[jmckee]

Thanks. Took the words right out of my keyboard.

[Josh]

It also uses yellow mustard. While I'm not normally a huge fan of bastardization, I think that the Caesar version you find in higher end restaurants - egg yolk, dijon, anchovy, lemon juice - is preferable to the Worcestershire/yellow mustard one.

[aasg]

Truffle oil. So overused.

[RetiredChef]

+1

[alliegator]

At least for me and my neighbors here in Texas it is jalepeno anything. Foods that should never be associated with the pepper are jalapeno crusted, dusted, infused, topped, studded with, heck, you name it... with jalepenos. I just wish it would stop. But I also think that if it did stop, they would just catch up with the rest of the world and replace it all with the chipotle.

[thew]

should is a funny words, especially when used without a subsidiary clause explaining it. X should not be done IF one does not want Y to happen. A should be done IF one wants B to occur. etc.

which foods "should" not be associated with jalapeños - and more importantly why "shouldn't" they?

[alliegator]

You're right, I did word that awkwardly. And didn't watch my spelling, lol. What I was trying to get at is that limp, pickled jalapeno chunks show up in unpleasantly unexpected places. Jalepeno smashed potatoes? Jalapeno risotto? Jalapeno flavoring in all sorts of breaded items without proper menu descriptions? I'll pass on all of it.

[thew]

jalapeños might be delicious is potatoes or risotto done right. (not ragging on you, thinking aloud about these possibilities)

[badvegan]

Uggg Tilapia! Every time a new salesman takes over my account i know the food service warns them not to offer me Tilapia, I had a salesman once at the start of the Tilapia craze come out and pitch me the new in cheap fish.... of course worrying about food costs we cooked some up while he was still there, i have never tasted a more revolting piece of shoe leather in my life.

In addition to the spinach and artichoke dip, all oversized fried apetizers have seen their day and need to be pulled from menus. No one wants a three inch fried mushroom or a cheese stick the width of a baseball bat.

If you have been buying the dayglo green key lime pie and bland cheescake from the foodservice with a vat of strawberry glaze to serve for desert..... STOP IT! seriously is it a wonder no one orders desert anymore? Oh and your tunnel of or lava of or whatever name you have given to your choclate cake taking up precious walk in space... dump it!

Your bartender is not a unique snowflake and neither is your top shelf margarita or martini. Just because you found a catchy name on the internet or your liquor rep gave you some free keychains does not mean that you can call your patron margarita the "Platinum Midnight Margarita del Cozumel." NOOOOOO its a freakin patron margarita get over it and quit trying to push call liquor using fancy names.... you are not Isac, this is not the Love Boat, and the seventies were before most of us were born.

The food network is not coming to your restaurant. I dont care that you have a bowl of ghost chilis in your walk in that some dishwasher grew in his backyard last summer waiting to make the hottest wings on earth. Or you have a giant frozen hamburger bun that you can cook on a pizza plate in the salamander that man vs. food cant finish. Every shit restaurant in America seems to think that one day Adam Richman will walk in his too small coat and make them famous. The plan goes something like this: 1. Ghost Chilis + Wings + Adam Richman 2. ?????? 3. Profit.

[small h]

<No one wants a three inch fried mushroom or a cheese stick the width of a baseball bat. >

Speak for yourself. That's two of my major food groups, right there.

[Firegoat]

mmmm delicious fried cheese....I'll have badvegan's portion

[monkeyrotica]

For me, the best part of a grilled cheese sandwich is the bit that drips out the side and onto the griddle and gets all toasted and crispy. I'm always tempted to just grill the cheese separate and add it to the bread later.

[Firegoat]

I see nothing wrong with that. Especially if I'm not doing the clean up. I've been known to sprinkle shredded cheese (cheddar, parmesan, whatever is in the fridge... I'm not choosy) in an even layer on a plate and nuke it in the microwave until it makes a delicious yummy crispy greasy snack.

[srsone]

u would love the cheeseburger at Shady Glen in Manchester,CT
they do that with the cheese on purpose...

[Sui_Mai]

macarons
bacon in sweets or cocktails

[ZenSojourner]

WHAT! Eliminate wonderful things like this:

http://bakonvodka.com/

NEVER!

>:c

[Sui_Mai]

Their website has a cocktail named after Elvis on it. 'Nuff said.

[ZenSojourner]

That's hilarious! But their "Elvis" drink isn't as apropos as perhaps a cocktail made from Peanut Butter Vodka and Banana Liqueur. They could call it an Elvis Sammich.

Yes, there really IS peanut butter vodka:

http://www.nutliquor.me/

[electricfish]

Children's menus need to be totally revamped. Nothing more depressing than finding chicken fingers, hot dogs and macaroni & cheese on the kid's menu in an otherwise nice, mid-range restaurant.

My kid eats real food, because we fed her real foods from day one, and I think most parents these days are trying to do the same. At least offer one or two smaller portion meals that don't insult their palates. And a vegetable or two wouldn't hurt either.

[Panini Guy]

"I think most parents these days are trying to do the same."

Sadly, no. At least not from what we see every day. Convenience is more important than ever. Not to mention the number of parents that continue to "negotiate" with their kids over what to eat, usually losing.

[alkapal]

"""""parents that continue to "negotiate" with their kids over what to eat, usually losing.""""""

this drives me batty. in the grocery store, too.

[monkeyrotica]

I think the general rule is that you have to offer something to a kid 10 times before they'll actually try it. I've been using Mario Batali's technique: when you offer kids something new, and they ask what it is, just say, "Oh, you've had this before a long time ago. You loved it." If they still don't eat it, you say they don't have to eat it, but they're not getting anything else. The risk of American kids starving to death is actually quite low.

[just_M]

Also don't forget to catch parents being good.

When my son was 2?, we were in the grocery store arguing over juice. Now up to this point said child had only been fed breast milk, water and/or foods ground/chopped by my fair hand 90% of the time (yes 1st child freakness in full force). He is ready to break out! So were arguing and he wants super popular juice x and I explain we don't buy crap like that (ok probably not my best moments, but its coming) anyway, he is insistent and so am I. So I tell him "well super juice only has 10% juice" (which means squat to a 2 year old) so I proceed to pull out some change and show him what 10% is and that the rest was water, which I already gave him (HFCF etc were beyond this argument). Anyway he looks at the coins and looks at me and says with astonishment "they're ripping us off!!" Yes! I'll take it! ;-) Okay long story short a woman walks over to us and complements me on what a great job I did and shes' a teacher! Honestly this moment made my early motherhood! I did something right! Yes, I lapped that up like the super rare and delicious cream it was. This moment of praise obviously affected the rest of my mothering (he is 17 now). So get out there an praise those patents doing it right! It may help them be the parent they want to be and not cave.

[alkapal]

no, i'm talking about the parent giving the kid a full menu of options to choose from at every point in the shopping process on every aisle. add the kid's mini-cart to mom or dad's cart, and i'm outta there. catering to the kid.

[coll]

Do your mini carts have a little flag that says "Shopper in Training"? Ours do, and I say yuck.

[alkapal]

oh yes they do, but i've noticed some recently are sans flag.

together, dad with his cart (oblivio man) and sonny with his (clueless, too) can manage to block the entire aisle. aisle after aisle.

[ZenSojourner]

I had a little shopping cart that I brought with me when we went shopping. My son loved to push that thing around. There were certain things he was allowed to select and put in the cart so he was "shopping" too. I no longer remember what they were, but he was good about sticking to the things we actually used and needed and not grabbing for every junky aimed-at-kids horror on the shelves.

[buttertart]

alka - We call that the "only people" syndrome. Some folks seem to believe they are the only people on the planet and are oblivious to anyone whosoever around them, locked up in their little bubbles of ego.

[alkapal]

i'm noticing it more and more. nowadays, even mr. alka (who is much more tolerant than i) is noticing the oblivious ones, as they walk right in front of you, or block the aisles, etc. they *are* in their own little bubble, and are SO in their bubble they don't even catch the "look."
;-).

[ZenSojourner]

We never blocked any aisles, but I've noticed, since of late I'm reduced to wheeling around instead of walking, that people think nothing of blocking me in. SOME people. Some people, on the other hand, practically fall over themselves to let me by, but there are enough of the other sort that I spend a fair amount of time trapped in narrow grocery aisles. My son has on more than one occasion had to move the cart of some oblivious person so I can move along. They seem to be deaf to pleas of "excuse me" coming from waist level.

[gaffk]

My mom, who never says a bad word about anyone, refers to my one sister as a "solipsist" as we were growing up. It's not that she's rude or selfish, she just really believes the world revolves around her ;) The rest of the family just agrees and moves on.

[cosmogrrl]

This drives me batty in my store! That and the "Why Not Stand There?" game. This is the game where someone will stand right in the place that is most inconvenient.

As a kid, I don't remember any negotiation about what I ate. I ate what was put in front of me.

[just_M]

alkapal, I should have started my post by saying those people/situations drive me bats too! I'm grateful that my kids were usually okay. And to my mother for providing the example of dragging my whiny butt out of wherever, even leaving a full shopping cart once. I did this a few times myself. Actually I need to follow my own advice and compliment someone doing good. That little compliment meant a lot to me.

[alkapal]

M -- you did good! i liked the practical lesson.

you are decent *because* your mom did deal with your whiny butt. ;-).

[just_M]

Thanks, I'm telling Mom you said so. It is Thanksgiving after all :-)

[alkapal]

she will surely get a kick out of that. then she'll say, "what's an 'alkapal' anyhow?"

HAPPY THANKSGIVING everyone. ;-).

[just_M]

Happy Thanksgiving alkapal & Mr. alka !

[coll]

If there was a demand for it, it would be on the menu, so unfortunately I don't think most parents are complaining.

[jmckee]

Anything with "applewood smoked bacon". Possibly the most overused, overrated item on any menu today.

[TexSquared]

From the mall food courts of hell:

Junk Chinese food passed off as Cajun food (Kelly's Cajun Grill in the U.S.; Bourbon St. Grill in Canada -- same company). I didn't think they used SOY SAUCE in Cajun food yet there it is at the checkout....

Similarly, Junk Chinese food passed off as Caribbean food (Caribbean Queen in Canada).

These are about as ridiculous as seeing sushi on a Mexican menu....

[lisaress]

I know this is a long cultural history thing, but why are all meals defaulted to have a starch. Often when I ask to have 2 veggie sides with my steak, they look at me funny and then tell me there will be an upcharge. Better to pay it than throw out my meaningless french fries and garlic mashed. At this point, few people need those nutrtionless calories. And why when you ask what is the seasonal vegetable, it is always broccoli with carrot shreds for every season? And why when you ask the soup of the day, it is potato soup? Just put it on the dang menu.... "we always will give you broccoli with carrot shreds and potato soup no matter which season or day it is".

[ZenSojourner]

Actually I've never been offered either item. The one place I found serving potato soup wouldn't give it to me the next time I went in, because it was summer and people don't eat hot things in the summer.

They don't? So all the burger joints stop selling burgers and fries, fold up their tents, and steal silently away into the desert? LOL!

[barryg]

Sounds like you need to go to a better steakhouse. I haven't had this kind of experience at anywhere decent in many years.

BTW potatoes are far from "nutritionless;" don't buy into the media hype.

[linguafood]

Yep. Vitamin C and potassium comes to mind. Ah, those lo-carbers crack me up all the time.

[lisaress]

Ah, I won't bite... a potato that is. That being said - I find some baked potatoes when well done and loaded pretty good and I can be a potato chip fiend. I especially like to eat ice cream with chips as spoons even though otherwise ice cream has no appeal. My main complaint about the starch is that my 10 year old has digestive problems (4 ER visits in the last year) and the gastro doc has asked her to eat 3 fruits and 2 vegetables per day and potatoes don't count. She refuses, so, I have eliminated all junk and potato products hoping she will get hungry enough to eat what he wants. This is difficult because we eat out a lot and there is not much incentive on the menus to get what the doc recommends.

And, I was a lo-carber because being a carnivore, I thought it was easier to give up carbs than fat. 7 years ago I was 275 lbs now I am 125 lbs. When I cut back it is on carbs because I like the other stuff so much more. I know many people who are successful the other way... watching those fat grams or total calories.

[linguafood]

Sorry to hear about your 10 yr. old. That must be difficult!

For the record, I did try South Beach once, followed it religiously for about 3 months and lost nothing. Nada, zip, zilch - while everyone around me was dropping weight like crazy.

Scrambled eggs for breakfast for.... what, 2 weeks? Ugh. Never. Again.

[lisaress]

I sure get that. It is amazing how much a food you thought you could do without, you end up craving. I don't care for sweets much, but when I was limited to whipped cream sweetened with Splenda as a dessert, I craved a real dessert.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread into a lo-carb defense. I didn't want to defend when I really did it and really was not religious about it and don't follow it now. My philosopy now is if you are not in love with it or you don't need it for health, don't bother. There is too much good chow out there.

Thanks for the sympathy for my daughter. I hate it that we fight over food. I wouldn't care if she wouldn't get abdominal pains or wasn't overweight (which she is far from).

[wreckers00]

I know it's been mentioned. But stop with CEASER SALAD ESPECIALLY CREAMY DRESSING ONES. those are always terrible and look terrible (although I never order them)

Secondly...every restaurant has their "own burger" and it always seems to have bacon, cheddar and caramelized onions in it!!

Lastly, every restaurant, deli, etc has this "healthy salad"....greens with dried cranberries, pecans, blue or goat's cheese and a fruity vinaigrette..COME ON PLEASE STOP WITH THOSE

[Panini Guy]

Given this is CH, needs to be added that a good potato made well TASTES GOOD.

That said, lots of places I'd ask for a different side because the potatoes in any form are pretty awful.

[grlwhoeats]

Fried mozerella sticks. Mainly because my husband orders them everytime we eat at a diner and they are greasy and horribly overpriced for what you receive, not to mention the icky "faux-marinara sauce." Every chain restaurant seems to have them as well. $7-8 for less than a pound of low quality mozerella sticks fried in grease. That's probably what like $16/pound of cheese. I could get a a really decent cheese for $16/lb!

[cuccubear]

I hadn't thought of this, but you're right. Most of the time they're rubbery and cold, so what's the point?

I'd really like to see, and I haven't yet found it locally, for a restaurant to offer a bonafide cheese plate, with a changing, seasonal array of local or imported quality cheeses. That would be more satisfying than a deep-fried wad of yellow rubber...

[monkeyrotica]

You can't swing a dead vintner in DC without hitting a wine bar or gastropub serving an artisinal cheese plate.

[cuccubear]

I'll have to venture out of the boonies and make a trip to DC. By the time that trends finds it's way out here, I'll be an old man!

[monkeyrotica]

DC's usually a couple years behind the curve when it comes to food trends anyway. By the time Cosmopolitans and apple martinis were all the rage here, NY/LA were already onto the Next Big Thing. For some reason, people here are still soiling themselves with glee whenver yet another $5 cupcakery with a stupid name opens.

[buttertart]

The allure of the cupcake completely eludes me. Crappy cake, worse frosting in the (few) I've tried. Are people deluding themselves with the thought that because they're small(ish) they're lo-cal? Not with that heap of gag-a-maggot frosting on top they ain't.

[monkeyrotica]

Which is why they sell the thumb-sized $1 cupcake "shots." Even smaller, cheaper, and that much less on which to gag.

[alkapal]

maggots don't like frosting.

unless, of course, it is dead meat frosting.

yum-mo!

[monkeyrotica]

Dead meat frosting: the perfect topping for cupcake "sliders."

http://foodbeast.com/content/2009/03/...

[buttertart]

Oh Lord, cutesy food. Save me...

[Kelli2006]

I'll proably be forced to leave Chowhound for this opinion, but I hate cutesy cupcakes that are a delivery device for cloyingly sweet frosting that shouldn't appeal to anyone over the age of 16.

STOP IT!

[buttertart]

I'll be in exile with you, miss.

[Its Still Mooing]

Add me to the list.

[woodleyparkhound]

...and me!

[mamachef]

I would say Lobster Thermidors, Newburgs and the like. Really any seafood dish that involves cream and cheese can be retired.

[monkeyrotica]

Disagree. This must be a regional thing, because here in DC, I can't recall a single restaurant that serves the stuff.

Lobster Mac & Cheese, however, seems to be everywhere and nobody who's served it to me seems to know what they're doing.

[Sandwich_Sister]

Oh Lobster Mac & Cheese is a good one. The worst one I had I could swear there was no lobster in there.

[alkapal]

retire them over to my house, please.

~~~~~~~
lobster thermidor's origins: http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodlobster.html#thermidor
and the amusing story of lobster "newburg": http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodlobst...

[johnb]

Not so much a menu item, and it's been mentioned upthread, but isn't everyone really tired of "balsamic" everything? This is a plague. Aside from the fact that 99.9% of those substances sold as "balsamic vinegar" are not the real McCoy, you can't buy a simple red wine vinegar labeled as such any more. In the store yesterday (small town in Appalachia) there were five or six vinegars labeled as various varieties of "balsamic," and no red wine anything. Don't get me started on the "white balsamic," the "balcamic capers," the "balsamic salad dressing," and all the rest of it. I'm waiting for the coconut cake with balsamic frosting--it can't be far behind.

[alkapal]

strawberry tart with balsamic glaze. http://www.grouprecipes.com/87572/bal...

your coconut cake-- it is a-comin' down the pike!

[Girasol]

I saw a popcorn ball with bacon bits encrusted in it. A goner? Let's see hands.

[TexSquared]

Get rid of the following words from menus please:

organic, shade grown, free range, fair trade, locally sourced, sustainable, house-made, artisanal, yadda yadda yadda.... (or even worse, have to name the farm where each ingredient came from... "locally-sourced eggs from Mike's Farm located on Highway 24 east of.... accompanied by chives grown in Frank's Garden two blocks up the street" in order to satisfy the 100-mile nutcases).

One would assume a chef will pick the best tasting, fresh ingredients for his dishes, ingredients that work well together, etc. He shouldn't have to justify his choice of ingredients with such pretentious BS.

As a customer, if a dish tastes like crap I could care less about the above things. Hell, if a dish tastes good I also could care less about the above things...

[alkapal]

but what if you wanted to go visit frank's garden for some chive-fix? huh? HUH?!

[yayadave]

What for!? Frank got them from the local (with-in 100 miles) Giant Eagle and re-sold them to Pierre the Magnificent at the restaurant. That way Pierre can say on his menu that they were sourced from Frank UP the Street. Truth in Menu!

[alkapal]

well then, we must investigate. i'll call "chowland chive-0" http://www.hawaiimagazine.com/images/...

[Panini Guy]

Tex said:
"One would assume a chef will pick the best tasting, fresh ingredients for his dishes, ingredients that work well together, etc. He shouldn't have to justify his choice of ingredients with such pretentious BS."

I would assume just the opposite. I'm very interested in knowing where my food comes from.

Btw, "pretentious" means extolling the virtues of something that's not worth extolling. My experience is that most restaurants who do put down sourcing info on their menus are actually not pretentious. There is a difference in what they're serving and it is worth promoting, IMO.

I personally would support any decent chef who goes outside the industrial food complex to make me dinner. As long as it tastes good.

[soupkitten]

thanks. it's an awful lot of work to source quality ingredients, especially through a multitude of tiny specialty growers and producers. it's a choreography of emails and cellphone calls while the pots are boiling and the oven timer is going off and you're understaffed, accountants bugging you about the cash-outs to the hmong farmer without a bank account, beat up little farm trucks and refrigerator vans coming in at all hours and during the dinner rush when you needed the goods three hours ago. . . and going out to the farm yourself on your day off so that you'll have herbs or cheese for the weekend.

the resulting food is, of course, well worth the hassle and extra time and human effort involved, and the sleep lost over wondering if the hail or the heat wave affected your local lettuce grower and if so, whether your plan b will work out. it's good to know that some diners do appreciate the work that some chefs take on, in order to get past the usfoods rep on speed-dial and the dreck on the sysco truck, no matter how reliably it unloads cases of everything from bottled bleach to tubs of brined roast beef without an expiration date. some people obviously don't get it, so they should probably stick to olive garden and kfc, where they won't be bothered with menu verbiage about sustainably and locally farmed foodstuffs or run the risk of encountering any "heritage" or "artisan" anything. cooks, farmers, and other food workers have been dismissed and undervalued for a long time, and the "industrial food complex," as you aptly put it, is the result, and now the norm. the way to a better food system, which for the diner/consumer equals better *food,* is to start valuing and acknowledging the extremely hard work these people do, in order to produce a better case of lettuce, handmade sausage, plate of food, whatever.

if it was a doctor or a car salesman or a military officer or a lawyer, offering consumers extra information, it would be valued. on a menu, a few extra words that convey valuable information are seen by some folks as an affront. "shut up and cook for me, don't tell me what you're cooking, but acquiesce to all my requirements/demands." again, there are folks who can deal with this attitude, and they work at chilis and kfc and serve the food these consumers demand, and receive.

[monkeyrotica]

For most people, sustainability and locally-sourced are secondary (if that) concerns. I've lost track of the pricey meals that were pitched as such yet tasted just okay. Some were even awful: I particularly recall a locally sourced organic pork loin that tasted like a Shake & Bake slab of weatherstripping. The choice shouldnt be between expensive organic and Sysco. There should be something in between. Which is why I look forward to Walmart entering the organic market and providing Whole Foods some competition to help drive awareness up and prices down.

[TexSquared]

That was kind of my point. I guess I should have asked Panini Guy which would he rather eat:

1- A dish that tastes horrible, costs an arm and a leg, but was made with all local/sustainable/organic/yadda yadda ingredients
or
2- A dish that tastes great, was fairly priced, and the ingredients came from all over the world.

To most people, common sense points at dish #2. If a dish tastes good and is a fair price people will buy it. Organic/sustainable/yadda3 doesn't even register.

Notice how I didn't throw in dish #3 which is "the food was cheap and tasted like crap because it came from the back of a SYSCO truck". That I won't eat either. If I wanted SYSCO food I could go to the frozen food section at Sam's Club or Costco, buy it for a hell of a lot cheaper the local crappy "bar and grill" chain charges, and reheat it in my own oven or grill....

Trader Joe's is a good example of a place that earns my business. There aren't any in Canada unfortunately (and none in Western NY state either...), but I love to shop there when I'm in the USA, because their food tastes good and is a reasonable price, NOT because they use organic ingredients (which they do).

I don't think organic farmers could satisfy Walmart's low price requirements, given how Wally squeezes suppliers. OTOH, let the suckers shop at Whole Foods, I wouldn't be caught dead in one.

[Panini Guy]

MonkeyErotica - yeah, Wal*Mart doing more organic/local is going to be really interesting. Had an opportunity not too long ago to go to Bentonville on a food-related project. Fascinating company, and really talking to some of the buyers and product managers about ethics and the power they can harness to do something good actually got me going to my local WM for the occasional grocery trip (but groceries only).

To Tex's point, to best of my knowledge, I've never experienced example #1. And I do eat at plenty of examples of #2.

But it's much more rare these days that we'll splurge on a #2. That's for when it's just not convenient/possible to eat in. Outback is on speed dial. When I lived in DC I was at TJs regularly. We have a WF here in Pittsburgh, but it's rare I'm there and only go for very specific items.

I'll admit, I'm at somewhat of an advantage owning a business on the periphery of fine dining. I know some of the better chefs around here and where they source. When I don't have that info or connection, I'll ask around, so I go in to that restaurant probably knowing more than most of the general public.

I also have a stand in a local farmers market, so I've got that network to rely on as well.

So I'm probably not a good example of someone who gets victimized by the sort of thing you're referring to in #1. It's been a really long time since we've dropped a C-note or more on a dinner we didn't fully enjoy that was for the most part sourced sustainably and usually locally/regionally.

[soupkitten]

what a bizarre twist. you're saying that sustainable food tastes worse, and that the chefs who source it don't know how to cook it? interesting. i don't think i've ever encountered your scenario #1, either. some of the best and most award-winning chefs in my area source very scrupulously locally and sustainably.

[TexSquared]

Go back to this post again:
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/461231#5768899

I wrote, "One would assume a chef will pick the best tasting, fresh ingredients for his dishes, ingredients that work well together, etc. He shouldn't have to justify his choice of ingredients with such pretentious BS."

So, if he or she can make me a great tasting dish and charge a fair price for it, I'll order it and enjoy it and tell all my friends about it. Whether he/she did it with your yadda-yadda or did it with imported/artificially fertilized/genetically modified food, doesn't matter to me one iota. To further that point, I don't go out of my way to look for yadda-yadda. I look for taste and value. That's it.

I was also answering (and agreeing with) this post:
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/4612...
where Monkeyrotica said, "I particularly recall a locally sourced organic pork loin that tasted like a Shake & Bake slab of weatherstripping."

This isn't to generalize that ALL organic food is horrible (remember, I like Trader Joe's which mostly uses organic sources, not necessarily local). But this is an example of why you can't just assume local or organic is ALWAYS superior to imported or not-organic. There's bad local/organic and good local/organic just like there's good and bad imported/not-organic ingredients.

A chef that wants to stay in business will find the best ingredients (regardless of the above) to make the best dish and charge a competitive price for it. Deviate from any of those (bad ingredients and/or bad dish and/or high price) and that restaurant has lost me as a customer.

Let's just agree to disagree on this since there's no way you'll get me onside and vice versa. I refuse to buy into the hype and get ripped off at places like Whole Foods or pay more for yadda-yadda ingredients. I value my hard-earned money way too much to willingly burn it like that.

[Girasol]

Yodels still taste good, don't they? This is what I think should most definitely go. A sliced in half clove of garlic rubbed onto a piece of bread. What kind of flavor can this possibly impart. Lagasse throws about 16 cloves into most of his dishes to impart the flavor.

[thew]

weird - i had yodels in my dream last night.

[woodleyparkhound]

Food served in a tower.

Dots of sauce on my plate and nowhere near my food.

[BobB]

Where do you live? Around here in Boston I haven't seen "tall food" (as I called it at the time) since the '90s.

[woodleyparkhound]

The last time I remember seeing it was last summer in Rehoboth Beach, DE.

[jmckee]

A Julia Child quote: "This looks as if it's been touched too much. It doesn't look foody to me."

[jmckee]

This is more of a word problem than a menu item problem, but the "artisanal arsenal" is way over-used. I actually saw a menu refer to "artisanal eggs."

[just_M]

"artisanal eggs."

Haha - well they are crafted by chickens :-?

[monkeyrotica]

I'm thinking Faberge chickens working with jewelers loups in a basement in Zurich.

[just_M]

Those eggs must be amazing. And the quality control...just amazing.

[toodie jane]

artisanal ANYthing

[TexSquared]

Two word answer: BONELESS WINGS

[monkeyrotica]

At what point did "chicken fingers" morph into "boneless wings?" What kind of mutant, massive-breasted chicken monsters is the chicken industrial complex breeding?

[jmckee]

A ha ha ha ha haaaaa! That's priceless.

[TexSquared]

Maybe they need to find a way to genetically engineer chickens so that the whole bird is boneless....

[monkeyrotica]

Courtesy Gary Larson.

http://kjbpod.files.wordpress.com/200...

[ZenSojourner]

LMAO! Gary Larsen was the best. His many imitators most often just come off as creepy.

[mamachef]

I love going to see his panels at the De Young Museum here. Remember in the '80's when those yellow window stickums with "baby on board" were so popular? He did a piece of a Huge enormous fly driving down the road and the sign on the window says, "maggot on board."

[ZenSojourner]

I remember that one too! My son loved Gary Larsen. Far Side, Bloom County, Calvin and Hobbes - these were his favorite cartoons. He loved Calvin and Hobbs so much he kept telling me what an awful mistake I had made in not naming him Calvin, LOL!

[lisaress]

Ok, this is so old that no one will read this and I don't care...

I have a long-running debate with my 10 year old daughter about chicken parts which started when she read "chicken thighs" on my grocery list. She laughed saying "Mom you're crazy, chickens don't have thighs or legs". My reply is "if they don't have legs or thighs, how do they walk; If they have breasts, why don't they breast-feed; why don't I ever see them fly with those wings?", Now I can add "How well do they count on those fingers?"

Yes, I have taken her to the store to show the packages and she will admit to thighs, but says Purdue is lying about legs. Chickens walk on stcks using their minds. I have promised to torture her by telling every stranger we run in to this story.

[yayadave]

Wait'll she's 16 and people are calling her "chicken thigh girl." Nobody be laughin' then.
(Where's that ROTFL emoticon when you need it?)

[gaffk]

I wonder what will happen when she first ecounters chicken feet.

[lisaress]

Oh the beauty of that post.... I am so going to the Asian market and gettin' me some feet. It will blow her chicken-leg denying mind. Never made them before, but I am using this as an excuse to explore.

[gaffk]

I saw them yesterday at the local farmers market, but was not brave enough to attempt. You'll have to let us know her response.

[lisaress]

I went to the Asian market yesterday and they had a sign for deboned chicken feet (hmmmm). I could not distinguish which package that was. I would not hesitate to buy their produce (just love their japanese eggplant), but the meat case and even frozen meat/seafood case always has blood/juice in the bottom. It just always looks dirty - don't know how it passes inspection.

Anyway, I took a pass and am pretty sure that my local grocery store will have them frozen or will get them for me. They do in-house butchering. The majority of our ethnic population is PA Dutch who are quite removed from our farming roots (does that qualify as an ethnicity?).

Anyway, I told her of my plan. She is quite grossed out at the prospect. She hasn't even seen what they look like, yet. I will post again when score some feet. I probably should start a new thread since this is so far removed from the OP's intantion.

[tracylee]

I've seen them at a local grocery chain with a particular location catering to the local Hispanic population. Close to the fish heads!

[beachmouse]

The 'lollipop' meat appitizer, which seems to have gone far beyond lamb, where it actually makes sense in terms of presentation, and can now be any animal-based protein.

[sarge]

Has the peaky toe crab crawled back in his hole yet?

[alkapal]

he may still be "peeking" out of his hole!

[swampwitch]

Ya'll this was great fun LMAO all the way. If it ain't real or ya cant make it properly get it off the menu for sure.

[Sandwich_Sister]

I loved reading this post and I have a few to add and a few to agree upon.

Fusion spring or egg rolls

A whole page of flavored margaritas - Why can't we just stick to the classic, or say "avaliable in strawberry, mango, and raspberry"

Dumbed down and unhealthly childrens menus - can we offer them something that they may like other than pizza, french fries, burgers, mac and cheese and chicken nugs.

Hot saki - does the heat take away the fact that it taste crappy. Cold Saki is the only Saki if you ask me.

Portbella mushroom burger - I love portabellas I think they are best used other ways.

Chili in the hot summer months - also don't put it on your menu if you don't make a good one.

California Roll - feeding the masses, its okay if it comes with say a bento selection but it's never my favorite and it isn't traditional. These girls up at the sushi bar were so funny, they claimed they liked sushi but then told me the only thing they like is the california roll, because the rest is ewwww!. lol.

Pizza joints that serve wings - why?

Things I agree on

A martini is a classic gin and vermouth martini I will except a dirty martini as a variation but thats it. This means vodka martinis, and flavoried martinis should be in another category. It was the appletini which started this whole mess.

brocoli and cheese soup - I love it but most places order it frozen and not fresh

Fried calamari that is not fresh

Tuna Sashimi apps at americanize restaurants and chains

hummus plates at restaurants that are non greek and non veggie/ vegan friendly.

[Its Still Mooing]

Its been 2.5 years since the original post.

I'm here to add some things.

Martini-anything (besides true martinis)
Sliders
Deconstructed
'Do you know how our menu works?'
TRIOS
Molecular gastronomy
'house-made'

[monkeyrotica]

In addition to "deconstructed" I'd like to add "re-imagined." There's a reason why what you're trying to "re-imagine" worked in the first place. If you find it boring, make something new, instead of calling it a re-imagined version of the classic original. I recently had a "re-imagined" oyster po'boy. The oysters were delicious; they had a horseradish seasoning and were lightly deep fried. Firm, plump, crispy. Unfortunatley, like many places that aren't in Louisiana, they used the wrong bread. Horribly wrong. Not only that, by instead of just slicing the bread in half and stuffing it full of oysters, some clever joker decided to split the round loaf in half down the middle, dig the insides out, and stuff the oysters in sideways so you had to eat it like a hotdog. Not only was the bread hard, dense, and abrasive, leaving me with a mouth full of bloody torn roof of the mouth skin, every time I squeezed the bread, the oysters shot out. It's as if nobody even had the idea to actually TRY eating this thing. They just thought, "Hey, how about we totally make this sandwich completely inedible as a way to re-imagine the po' boy?" There's a reason why sandwiches are served between two slices of bread. There's a reason why a soft, crusty French bread like Leidenheimers is used for po' boys. If paying $16 to bleed all over a plate is your idea of "re-imagining" a meal, you should seek professional help.

[cuccubear]

Out here it the sticks “Let me show you how our menu works” has only recently been en vogue. They say that at one of my favorite local restaurants and that’s because most people around here expect a menu to read the traditional way. I’m not tired of the phrase yet, but the Martini thing IS getting ridiculous.

[TexSquared]

“Let me show you how our menu works” to me is rude, since it assumes or suggests the customer is illiterate or otherwise stupid. Menus are usually self-explanatory -- you get this food with these sides (if any) for this amount of money. These extras cost this amount of money....

The only places that need any kind of extra explaining are the places that are designed as "pick 1 entree from list A, 2 sides from list B, and 1 dessert from list C" but even that's not too complicated for most people.

And then you have some places that make it very simple: "Our menu is totally a la carte". Common in steak houses.

[BobB]

Well, it's not always so intuitive - I'm thinking in particular of one restaurant in NYC (one of my favorites, actually) where they divide the menu into sections based on themes, and within each section the first two items are appetizer-sized and the remaining items entree-sized.

A bit precious for my taste, but it has its own logic, and I forgive them since the food itself is outstanding.

However, that's the only place where a brief explanation the first time I dined there was actually useful - everywhere else I've heard it, it's been pretentious drivel.

[cosmogrrl]

Hate deconstructed anything, such an annoying term. And if you have to explain how your menu works, you've failed at printing it.

Tired of seeing Mac and Cheese on the menu as well, but after i ate some at Fleur de Lys last week I've decided it can stay for a while longer. It had truffles and smelled like heaven.

[gaffk]

Please don't deconstruct. I am paying to have you put my meal together; not for you to provide me the privelege of putting my own meal together.

[gmm]

Every time I hear or see that term, I remember some cooking contest type show (Chopped, maybe?) where the chef called their dish decomposed, rather than deconstructed. I'm pretty sure I don't want any kind of decomposed food on my plate.

[melpy]

haha decomposed! Hysterical :)

[BabsW]

Sliders, unless you're looking at a children's menu. For some reason, the trio of gourmet sliders bothers me.

[monkeyrotica]

I feel the same way about gourmet mac & cheese. I've tried lobster and gruyere twice and both times they sucked: the lobster's flavor was overwhelmed by the cheese, which itself ended up oily and the macaroni was dried out. Like when you don't put enough liquid into regular mac & cheese. Maybe I'm just annoyed at how people can take a perfectly good comfort food and turn it into a nasty, expensive, deconstructed, hideous simulacra and think they're doing you a favor.

[toodie jane]

I've been scanning the thread to see if anybody'd mentioned Mac-&-Cheese; yesterday I heard someone talking about ordering deep fired mac & cheese, and LIKING it.

[TexSquared]

California, dragon, dynamite, caterpillar, rainbow, spider......
If trying to order it in Japan could get you ejected by the chef it doesn't belong on the menu anywhere. I've been to places that had 20 or more of these ridiculous rolls from hell on the menu. STOP THE INSANITY!!!

[monkeyrotica]

Mmmmm...Spicy Insanity Roll.

If anything, stupid sushi rolls aren't insane ENOUGH. There should be Idaho Rolls with frenchfries inside, and Wisconsin Rolls with Maytag Blue Cheese, and Maid Rite Rolls with loose meat inside. If there's one thing America excels at, it's taking cuisine from around the world, turning it into something ridiculous, and selling it back to the world at a profit.See hamburgers, pizza, and movies.

[Panini Guy]

I'm surprising myself by agreeing with you on that one because I'm really a traditionalist when it comes to pizza.

As we all know, 99.99 of ANY 'foreign' cuisine served in the US is less than "authentic" because of ingredients. We've covered that territory ad nauseum so no need to repeat.

This would seem especially true as pertains to sushi. To maintain "authenticity", pretty much every ingredient needs to be imported because domestic fish/rice/nori/etc. is very different. So you can't really marry "local" if you're going to be "authentic" when it comes to sushi.

While there is certainly room for "authentic" restaurants like Masa or Fin, and while there is also some silliness to the fact that you find many of the same rolls everywhere, I'd also love to see more talented US chefs come up with nontraditional combinations that you wouldn't find in Japan using local ingredients, with emphasis on local (e.g. the smoked duck/okra roll noted in the Atlantic article).

Yeah, a Primanti's hand roll. My mind boggles at the possibilities.

[monkeyrotica]

I think a Primanti Roll would do gangbusters in Asia. What about an Isaly's Chipped Ham Roll or an Alabama White Barbecue Roll? Unlike their American counterparts, Asia isn't afraid to adopt completely insane takes on foreign cuisine. Look what they did with pizza.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives...

[soupkitten]

oh, the poor iowans! they have some really great cheese, but they never get any credit! everyone just assumes that all good midwestern cheeses come from wisconsin. . . just because 95% of them do.......... ;-)

[revsharkie]

I was just gonna say the same thing... Maytag blue... the pride of Newton, Iowa... oh, my, that stuff's good.

[steakman55]

I am surprised no one else listed soup served in a hollowed out bread bowl.
I second the following: ranch dressing, flavored coffee, cupcakes, fried calamari, stupid pizze toppings, and one more time, flavored coffee.

[RetiredChef]

In no particular order

Truffles – They are everywhere especially truffle oil.
Honey – This is actually a new trend, it’s becoming the new balsamic vinegar and in many cases it doesn’t work.
Octopus – It’s turning up on menu’s where it does not belong and most people over-cook it.
Ranch dressing – ewwww
Cupcakes for dessert – Seriously people.
Wasabi anything – (Wasabi Cheesecake, Washington DC)
Risotto – Unless you are going to make it right – no parboiling allowed.
Butternut Squash ravioli with sage brown butter – I counted 6 out of 8 restaurants serving this over the holiday weekend. Give it a break.
Fried herb garnishes
Kobe Burgers (I honestly did not know that much kobe beef was produced since just about every bistro in America is serving Kobe burgers.)
Chorizo on everything – give it a break people.
Panna Cotta – that isn’t panna cotta.
NY Cheesecake – that isn’t NY but a light variation
Cracklins – Unless I’m eating Cajun or soul food.

[slewfoot]

Someone probably said this...
Potato skins.

[Samuelinthekitchen]

Pork Belly. I get it, it's awesome - do you do anything with lamb?

[ClockworkOrange]

The term "house made".

[Panini Guy]

Curious - what would you say instead of "house made" to differentiate something (a dressing, baked good, whatever) from something that's pre-made or makes heavy use of pre-packaged ingredients?

I ask this because at my place I use the term frequently so people know I'm not loading them up with preservatives and other nasties.

[soupkitten]

i'm going to redo all the menus and instead of saying "house-made" i'll put: "not from sysco, usfoods or restaurant depot, not frozen, not canned, not mass-produced, not distributed outside of this establishment." i could also put the name(s) of the person who made each item, do you think that would be too much?

[Sui_Mai]

Loves it! 'Specially the names bit.
Prolly a myth but I've heard that in Paris, at many butchers, you can get the name of the cow your meat is from.

[EWSflash]

Oh my, Sui Mai, that would probably do more toward making vegetarians out of people than anything else I can think of!

"I'd like a rack of Bossy, please." Don't think I could do it.

[alkapal]

...until people start naming their broccoli.

[cuccubear]

“Sorry kids, but I had to turn your favorite Eggplant, ‘Brenda’, into a Moussaka.”

“We understand Mom, but please spare Frank the Broccoli, he’s our friend!”

[alkapal]

cuccs, i'm just picturing brenda the eggplant! LOL!

she has one of those "pear-shaped" body types. http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/properties/sigard/art_images/tn_July_eggplant_lr.jpg

here she was in happier times: http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/504342/2/istockphoto_504342-corn-garlic-eggplant.jpg

and she was a good role model, too! http://offthemark.com/search-results/...

[cuccubear]

That's good ol' Brenda for ya! R.I.P. ;-)

[capicksnw]

LOL!!!!

[EWSflash]

"Just shut the hell up and eat your Brenda, Frank, and beans!"

[Sui_Mai]

Cupcakes!!

[southernitalian]

That's what I posted two years ago and the NYT has an article on cupcakes today!

[Jacey]

I am sick of seeing sliders, tater tots and every new restaurant opening with a focus on small plates. If I wanted tater tots I'd go to the frozen section of my grocery store.

[capicksnw]

Enough with the freakin' sliders on every freakin' menu!!!

[monkeyrotica]

The slider thing is particularly irritating since I can't get the real thing from White Castle or Krystal in my area.

Also, anything that's been "deconstructed." I'm not paying you to take my meal apart. If I wanted my meal "reimagined" in a "playful" way, I'd go to a grocery store and nail a rabbit to a yule log cross. Happy Easter!

[vtnewbie]

How about, if there's something on the menu I don't care for, or find trite/hackneyed/no longer fashionable, I just don't order it?

[taos]

Chicken Caesar salad, beef Caesar salad or any of the add-on Caesar salad variations.

[foodperv]

these two are not so much actual food items
they are more terms used to descibe them
heirloom and artisan
i just saw a recipe in bon app mag called heirloom grits come on now

[laliz]

I read this entire thread today for the first time.

I agree that many items are “tired” or not done well, but many items mentioned are not anything I order anyway so I don’t mind them on the menu for other people.

As stated earlier, the ubiquitous chipotle any and/or anything and ranch dressing for sure are waaaay overdone IMO.

I swear America’s favorite meal is boneless skinless chicken breast; big hunk of undercooked broccoli; and a piece of too sweet cheesecake.

[foodperv]

it has been about 9 months since the last pots to this
has anyone changed their minds
i have not it seems since my last post to this topic there are more chipotle items on menus than b-4

[Smileelisa]

IMHO I would have to say meatloaf. I would never ever order this in any restaurant. My husband has since he loves meatloaf and he has been disappointed over and over. I will eat my meatloaf. It is so easy to make why would you want to eat it out? I usually order something I don't make for us and then I enjoy it immensely. It is a treat to eat out and to me meatloaf is not a treat...lol

[AndyGanil]

Panini sandwiches. I've never heard of panini's before the pavillion's commercial, but now it seems like they're everywhere. And, to this day I haven't tasted a decent "panini". It's just a grilled flat, very little meat sandwich. A ripoff.

[Panini Guy]

That's the point. Small food. Small price. "Pan"= bread, "ino/ini" = diminutive.

The Italian idea has it right - a small roll, some meat and maybe one or two other ingredients. Piled high in a window display. Doesn't have to be grilled - many are eaten cold (and designed as such). They're eaten in a couple of bites, washed down with an espresso and a water chaser. Not a sit-down two-hands sandwich.

Once it got to the US, like most other things, the concept got perverted. Microwave panini? How helpless/stupid are we?

[newJJD]

I think it is the dessert section that bothers me the most.

Lava / Molten chocolate cake
Flourless Chocolate cake
Gelatin-spiked pudding that is passed off as Panna Cotta
Non-flambe desserts served in skillet
Chocolate Fantasy/Eruption/Explosion/ G-Spot Orgasm, whatever

And last but not least

MUD PIE!!!!! Why would I pay for vanilla ice cream pressed onto Oreo cookie crumbs?
Then they try an make it fancy by putting it on a plate that is WAY too big (sometimes triangle shape with raised corners).

And of course, it wouldn't be Mud Pie without the Jackson Pollock inspired mess of chocolate and caramel sauce sprayed everywhere!!!

Any menu item with a title and a the "TM" trademark logo frightens me,

[foodperv]

chipotle
i mean 2-3 yrs ago we all knew the ingredient and used it, but then it became THE THING
now it's chipotle everything . come on the next thing will be chipotle t/paper to add spice right to the end

[Sean]

Boneless chicken wings
Fried Mozzarella sticks
Bloomin onion

[alkapal]

chipotle tp "to add spice right to the end". Brilliant!

[laliz]

I agree 100%.
Chipotle anything ~~ begone

[BlueHerons]

I had to laugh as I was reading this thread because I recently came across one of my husband's restaurant menus he wrote in the mid to late 1970s. A couple of things that come to mind on the "Appetizer" section were:

Fried Cheese
Sauteed Mushrooms

Soups:

French Onion
Creme of Broccoli

Under the Entrees:

Stuffed Flounder

Diet Plate: Hamburger patty with a side of cottage cheese

I'll see if I can locate the menu but it was hilarious.

[piccola]

On a side note: I never understood why that's considered a diet plate. Hamburgers, while not the devil, aren't particularly healthy, and most restaurants don't use lowfat cottage cheese.

Now if it were a patty on salad, or cottage cheese with veggies, I would get it...

[Its Still Mooing]

That was probably during the 1st incarnation of the Atkins Diet.

[monkeyrotica]

Steak tartare was the "original" low-carb diet. I'll take Raw Meat Lucullus over a burger and cottage cheese any day.

http://www.recipelink.com/mf/3/6702

[im_nomad]

Raspberry vinaigrette.............

[cor]

big time.

[duck833]

I agree with the fried calamari, overdone. However I last month I finally had some wonderful grilled whole calamari at Andreoli's in Scottsdale, OMG they were wonderful. A plate of them for $7.50.

[emerilcantcook]

Third (fourth) for banning the term "martini" to describe any sugary-dessert drink that is served in a said glass to elevate its status to something pseudo-classy.

Perhaps I am an elitist/purist whatever but I don't get the point of ordering pre dinner drinks from sugary, gastronomically irrelevant cocktail menus (most prevalent at chain restos). I know they are there to make more money; but why would one want to start their dinner with a white chocolate raspberry honey "martini"? Or why would anyone want a Mai Tai at an Italian restaurant? Well, unless they want to be smashed before their dessert.

[CPunches]

dear my, YES. i hate hearing the word 'martini' in reference to a desert or something, just because they serve it in a martini glass!

[chowfamily]

On my wish list, never having to read "cooked to perfection" again.

[notmartha]

I love pork belly, but it just seems to be over exposed as the latest fad ingredient in high end restaurants, like truffles and uni.

[mai_world]

shrimp Cocktail, I'd agree with,
for some reason tuna tartare never is that great, why is it on every menu?
spinach and artichoke dip for sure

[howboy]

Field greens. Baby field greens. Restaurants seem to think that they have some pedigree that forgives boring presentation and dressings....too often, I think they're just blah.

[MysticYoYo]

Okay, not a menu item, but if I ever have to suffer this in a restaurant again it will be too @&*$-ng soon: Staff singing "Happy Birthday" to a customer, (especially in another language such as Italian but with off key, un-melodic voices that makes the song sound like a funeral dirge). Makes me want to cram my fork right into my eye. Over and over and over again.

[revsharkie]

I told my husband many years ago that arranging for restaurant staff to sing happy birthday to me is grounds for immediate divorce, if not execution.

Fortunately, he feels precisely the same way.

[TSQ75]

how about item names that need to be retired?

"Carne Asada Steak."

WTF?!

[Romanmk]

I agree. "Carne Asada (Steak)" would be a little more concise. Just kidding.

[Sean]

Shrimp Scampi

[Caroline1]

So glad you asked! It's not a dish, but I am so sick of basil I could scream! I don't like basil in my marinara sauce. I don't like chiffon of basil sprinkled on my eggplant parmigian. I don't like basil in my salsa, I don't like basil in my cream of tomato soup. I'm coming very close to the point where I HATE basil! I didn't used to. But now I'm finding myself using anything that's simply green in my home made pesto sauce just to get away from basil. I'm praying for a basil blight.

[JayVaBeach]

I can stomach Basil, but Cilantro (aka Coriander) on the otherhand I detest ! It literally causes nausea for me - I think that the flavor is dreadfully awful & it's unfortuante as I enjoy ethnic menus & it's commonly used in Asian, Latin & Middle Eastern cuisine. I try to refrain from reinvented a chef's method while eating out, but Cilantro is where I draw the line. If I think that it's in a dish, I request that the Chef omit it - pretty please !

[vorpal]

I don't know if you're aware, but it's suspected that an absolute repulsion towards cilantro is actually a genetic trait wherein the individual with this characteristic finds that cilantro generally has an unpleasant, soapy, dirty taste. Look up cilantro on Wikipedia for more information if you're curious.

I wonder if the same is true for canola; I've seen a few people mention here that canola, to them, tastes like rancid fish. It doesn't taste like anything to me!

[in_wonderment]

thanks for the information about cilantro. i detest it as well. i can take it in salsa, a little bit. but in all other dishes, i omit it when possible. or reduce it significantly. so bitter and awful.

[linguafood]

While we're at going OT, I used to Loathe cilantro. When I travelled Thailand, it ruined a good number of dishes for me.

However, I have overcome my hatred for cilantro, and can now enjoy it as a flavor that is an essential part of Thai cuisine... so -- there's hope!

[trolley]

oh and one more item...i am done with cesar salad. if it's made well with quality ingredients then, no keep it. but i'm tired of a cesar with mass produced croutons and creamy cesar dressing that to me resembles more of a ranch dressing.

[monkeyrotica]

Same here. I used to think cilantro tasted like a mutant cross between Irish Spring soap and B.O., but I've gradually been able to up my dosage to some freshly chopped in guacamoles and salsas.

[alkapal]

agreeing with Hunt, above, this thread needs to be retired. no offense to anyone, but now it has turned into a likes/dislikes (and i have participated, too!). everyone agrees that if the food is done well, it is fine.. if not done well, that needs to go. thus, this is alkapal's fond farewell to this thread. RIP!

[goodhealthgourmet]

couldn't have said it better myself.

let's move on.

[BygTex]

1. I'm wondering just how much more flipping Pomegranate we have to endure. It's on and in everything now. I was at the store yesterday and found a pomegranate flavored beer!
2. Risotto......done to death.
3. Is it me, or does it seem that gnocchi is way to trendy for what it is.....?
4. Maybe it's just here in Texas and the Southwest...but not EVERYTHING has to have Chile and Lime on it.

[ArikaDawn]

Trendy or not, I would be quite devastated it gnocchi and risotto were removed from menus. I am not much of a cook so I rely on restaurants to get my fix for these two items. I do agree about the pomegranate thing to an extent though. Some dishes where it is featured are quite good when they make sense, but it is so hot right now it seems they are throwing it in with EVERYTHING.

[hungry_pangolin]

Boo hiss, BygTex. I love pomegranate, risotto, and gnocchi, although pomegranate beer strikes me (a beer lover) as absurd. Pomegranate was one of my first foodie memories. My mother bought me one at Christmas when I was 8 years old. It was very exotic - and expensive - at the time, and they strangest thing I had ever eaten. It was my food universe's big bang. I also remember helping to make gnocchi as a child. Good stuff like this, made properly, treated with respect, never go out of fashion. Or, at least, shouldn't.

[BygTex]

Don't get me wrong. It's not that I dislike gnocchi or risotto....I just get irritated when the gastronomic needle gets stuck in the groove.

Everything in moderation, I say.

[TampaAurora]

That Pom beer is revolting! I drank it on a dare.

[GastronautMN]

Bad Tomatos!! The pervasive, mealy tomato proxys that plague the average salad/sandwich all year long. These things are not only tastless but devoid of any nutritional value. This is especially annoying during the peak of tomato season and you get the same crap you get in February. I know retaurants like to control food costs, bur show a little pride!

[hungry_pangolin]

That reminds me of a funny story. Back in the days of Glasnost (1989?), there was a group of Armenians, engineers, I think, visiting Toronto in January or February. A local newspaper followed them around to get their comments. They loved department stores, but were disgusted by tomatoes. I think that they called them something like "red rocks". At that time, they were not wrong.

[Veggo]

Same era, when American cars were struggling to withstand a mandated 5-MPH- bumper collision without damage, our tomatoes had been genetically engineered to withstand the weight of 6 feet of tomatoes stacked above them in a truck or railroad car.
A congresswoman who is suffiiciently "out of the game" that I will respect her desire for anonymity, had a beautiful comment. She said "In America, we should start driving our tomatoes."

[alkapal]

how "green" (ahem) is a biodegradable car?! you can also use it for nourishment. jicama wheels.

[Deepster]

....not to mention our chickens had be metabolized to withstand the weight of forty other chickens plus cages on them, as the hurled down our interstates at 100MPH!

[Greg B]

I nominate the use of raw red onions on just about every plate containing a salad, sandwich, or burger. Raw red onions almost never get eaten. It is the new parsley on resto plates, except parsley is far more edible. I suspect a giant conspiracy between the red onion growers and resto owners designed to pump up the demand for a product most people immediately set aside and never touch.

[pickychicky1979]

Hmm I like the red onions in fact prefer them to others...guess that's what makes everyone different.

[sophie fox]

Honestly, there are plenty of items in the long list that I don't like - but none that I would insist be removed from menus for good. I may be bored senseless by spinach and artichoke dip - but someone at the next table may adore it. I'm free to not order it, so why should I deny someone else a pleasure that I don't share?

[JayVaBeach]

Good point Sophie. I'm one who has never acquired the taste for flavored fussy java, so the idea of patronizing a Starbucks is unappealing to me & I opt to avoid them as preference; however, I have friends who do enjoy it & if we're out & about & their desire is to stop there, I usually order an iced tea & end up purchasing a CD with a good mix of artists (while their coffee concoction is being prepared), so it's not all that awful afterall. For the record, I love my Dean & Deluca Georgetown blend or for a to-go cup-of-joe, Dunkin Dounuts house - no artificial flavor or fuss !

[Its Still Mooing]

I say onward, because this post is definitely going to get these items retired! Call your congressman! If one person is offended by an item, such as spinach & artichoke dip, it should be outlawed or taxed!

[hungry_pangolin]

Just out of curiosity, is this %organic thing an American phenomenon? I've never encountered that here in Toronto. Here everything seems to be organic, "natural" (meaning organic, but not certified as such), or just not.

[yayadave]

I think "organic"on the label in this country has about the same actual value as "giant economy size." It makes me think of buying bottled water in a restaurant in NYC. Ah, you may not understand that. NYC has some of the best water in the country coming out of the pipes.

[Bill Hunt]

Two days ago, I purchased a bottle of water. The label clearly stated "0% Trans-fat!" "Organic," is along the same lines. The veggies were grown in dirt, that was not part of a nuclear waste dump, and fertilized by the manure of cattle, who were fed no hormones. The water contained "0% Trans-fat," and the workers, who harvested the produce, all wore Birkenstocks. What could be wrong with that?

BTW, I think that this thread may have set a new record, and also may have outlived it usefulness. However, I could be wrong.

Hunt

[yayadave]

Maybe that "0% Trans-fat!" is why people order water in NYC restaurants in stead of drinking the tap water.

[goodhealthgourmet]

here in the states, there are specific guidelines governing the labeling of organic products.

there are four USDA-approved categories of organic labels:
1) 100% organic - may carry USDA organic seal
2) organic - at least 95% of content is organic by weight [excluding water and salt] and may carry the USDA organic seal
3) made with organic - at least 70% of content is organic and the front product panel may display the phrase "made with organic" followed by up to three specific ingredients [may not display USDA organic seal]
4) less than 70 % of content is organic and may list only those ingredients that are organic on the ingredient panel with no mention of organic on the main panel. [may not display USDA organic seal]

yes, it's ridiculous.

[TSQ75]

oh, and sandwiches on a conveyor belt.

get a pizza oven for chrissakes!

[swampwitch]

tsq75- that would be sammies on that conveyor

[purple goddess]

Restaurant's that use stupid "fusion" terms to make their food more "gorm-aye"

I will not be surprised to read "Blackened Wagu, served omakase-style, with Asian-inspired skordalia, 70% organic, free range apricot jus on a bed of Mediterranean bok-choy salad greens. Your choice of dressing.

Available as part of our Asian/Croatian tapas fusion platter"

**insert eye-rolling icon**

[alkapal]

purple goddess! you are toooooo funny! --- with a side of seasoned curly fries and ranch....

[purple goddess]

Imported non-gm modified, low carbon-foot print air miles ones, of course. Oh, and it's to be served at a "Irish" pub with a cutsey name like Bridie O'Mahouge's

[yayadave]

Don't forget the new virgin vinyl booths.

[sarge]

The cedar plank thing is a side show;
Any crab cake that cosots less than $12.00 is an imposter (crab just costs to damn much to make a good crab cake for $8.95);
I am happy to see other feel the same as I about French Onion Soup;
Fried mushrooms are awful, with or without ranch dressing;
Starbucks!!!!;
Lobster Ravioli, it's straight from the freezer case 98% of the time;
cous cous-oh please!

[in_wonderment]

agreed with crab cakes and french onion soup. better off making at home :)

the last time i had a lobster ravoli it was at fiamma in vegas. so it was good.... though incomparable to anything else in the world.

[in_wonderment]

also, cous cous is quite versatile. you can make this at home, just saute a few veggies (mushrooms, onions, broccoli) and serve over cous cous. one of my favorite dishes.

[jfood]

israeli cous cous served tonight at casa jfood cooked in vegetable broth. some seared scallops, caramelized onions and sauteed mushrooms on top. happy happy.

http://jfoodonfood.blogspot.com New posting 11/20/07

[coney with everything]

I don't think couscous has reached the point of saturation yet in my neck of the woods. I love the stuff, have since I ate it in a cafeteria in Paris in the seventies (it was mentioned in "Europe on $5 a Day"!)

[Bunnyfood]

Flavored Coffee. Yuck yuck and yuck. Artifically flavored corn syrup sprayed on to low grad coffee bean???? I'll pass...
Caprese salad with plastic mozzerlla...Oh my how scary!\
Frosted brownies- Why? If you need more chocolate, just have another brownie...
Agree with all the folks who've mentioned: garlic mashed potatoes, mozz sticks, canned fruit on salad and tilapa...

[in_wonderment]

garlic mashed potatoes will always be good if you have an affinity for garlic :)

overdone? never, haha.

ps, love the name bunny

[Bunnyfood]

I so have the affinity for garlic. But not garlic powder. And not garlic flavoring. And not "smells like garlic, but taste like ????"" Any garlic mashed potatoes made without the real deal HAVE GOT TO GO!

[danhole]

Amen, Bunny! Big difference!

[JayVaBeach]

I'm in agreement with you Bunny. I'm looking forward to my Mother's method (this Thanksgiving) for a change - along with the fresh minced garlic, she adds truffle oil to her mashers - they're wonderful.

[in_wonderment]

i forget that people make them with flavoring and other nonsense.

i was kind of thinking of my own, with roasted garlic, mashed and added.

[TSQ75]

I have to say, i use garlic powder in things. I think there is value in "levels" of garlic flavor, and both fresh and powder give their own levels of flavor to things depending on when you add them...

[danhole]

Oh, I do too, but for mashed potatoes, you have to have fresh garlic, not just sprinkle a garlic powder on them, as some places do. But I am not opposed to using garlic powder in certain recipes, along with the fresh.

[Deepster]

I agree with you and all others on the "flavored coffee" thing! Damn, why drink COFFEE if you want it to taste like vanilla chocolate mango salsa? Just pour a container of the mix and add hot water if you ain't lookin' for coffee.

[monkeyrotica]

You mean you don't like Triple Fudge Mocha Choke-a flavored coffee? You want coffee to taste like...coffee?

The whole add-chocolate to everything really needs to go to toxic levels of chocolateyness. And I really hope those Death By Chocolate cakes start living up to their name.

[Cat Chow]

I'm with you on the coffee (I think jfood also mentioned it). It's an abomination for coffee to be laced with other stuff, especially fruity flavored stuff. G-R-O-S-S. Even a bigger abomination if you make some sort of "coffee" drink
that sounds like a holiday dessert: egg nog latte, pumpkin spice whatever, peppermint frostachini....etc.

[jfood]

jfood once heard someone refer to de-caf as bean sweat (except for medicinal needs).

Flavored coffee is $%^&*. Any other word will get jfood deleted. blech

[Honey Bee]

Any combination of miso and cod...
Inventive when Nobu first unveiled the dish, but am tired of seeing it on restaurant menus. Don't get me wrong--I like it, but it had its 15 minutes of fame. I make a perfectly tasty verison at home and am redady for chefs to challenge me with something new. Next, please.

[wontonfm]

My thoughts exactly!!! And throw in some "Creative" edamame side dish as well.

I think it's a very tasty dish but now it just seems tacky seeing it on every menu. The other day my friend and I were laughing about being invited to a particular restaurant in Malibu and we were joking that they probably have some sort of miso cod on their menu... lo and behold they did!

WON
------------
http://whatsonmyplate.wordpress.com

[vorpal]

As with some of the others here, there are many suggestions I would miss if they were completely eliminated. For example, sometimes a wrap, IMO, can be done well, and I really enjoy one on occasion.

I am rather anti the silly pizzas like "Thai sweet chili chicken" (which really has nothing remotely Thai about it) and salads like "Asian chicken salad" (because crispy noodles on a bed of lettuce are so Asian), but that's more out of principle of bastardizing the name of various styles of cuisine.

What I'd like to see eliminated is just really badly prepared food. For example, I can't find a decent salad at any restaurant within walking distance of my house. Everything is essentially a huge amount of iceberg lettuce with a few sad vegetables thrown on top to make it look healthy. I suppose it's a cost cutting measure, often, but it's really unappealing and I would happily pay for a real garden salad with lots of veggies mixed in with the lettuce.

[trolley]

i'm with you guys on the funny pizza. i'm totally done with:
BBQ chicken pizza- or any absurd pizza combinations
calamari- just don't bother if can't do it right
crab cakes- ditto
chinese chicken salad
anything served in a giant martini glass that's not a martini.

[woelkaru]

I am so with you on the salads....I hate iceberg!!! A good salad seems hard to come by.

[monkeyrotica]

$17 "po boys." I guess if the idea is to make me poor, they've got it in spades.

I'm also tired of fake Irish pubs that serve much of what you'd find at Applebee's, but they just tack on an Irish town to the name. Like Galway Steak, Donnegal Meatloaf, or Connemara Spaghetti and Meatballs.

[alkapal]

wait, wait monkeyrotica, i *love* Connemara Spaghetti and Meatballs!

[TSQ75]

the various fried appetizers that were once frozen: mozzarella sticks, and Jalapeno poppers

the ever-loving quesadilla with anything and everything in it.

[Kagey]

I forgot to add my all-time most disliked food item: honey-mustard anything. It seemed ubiquitous back in the 90s, but maybe it is gone now...?

[alkapal]

oh no, still around!

[BobB]

Agreed, it's just one more example of the mass-market--American approach to food: "Whatever it is, make it sweeter and add more calories (preferably from HFCS)."

[Blueicus]

Actually, I noticed this interesting phemonenon... someone brought in a variety of American cereals (and their Canadian counterparts) to work one day to try out. I was ashamed to find that the Canadian counterparts tasted sweeter than the American ones.

[KaimukiMan]

just wait till you get overwhelmed with Li Hing Mui powder on everything....

[DBrooks]

Oh my...is this happening in Hawaii? I grew up in Kailua during the late '60s/early '70s and lived on li hing mui as a kid...crackseed, whatever they call it now. Plum, lemonpeel, ginger, etc. Always have some when I visit, takes me back to childhood in an instant.

How is it being used in cuisine??

[KaimukiMan]

it shows up in different forms in different places, including in martini's or on the rim of a margarita glass. I've seen it on hotdogs, sushi, fresh fruit, salads, chicken...

[Jacey]

potato or panko crusted fish
wasabi encrusted chicken/fish or mash potatoes

salads that have very few if any vegetables: I'm sick of ones that have glazed pecans/walnuts, blue cheese, cranberries/dried fruit and some other non-veg. This is a dessert on top lettuce!

[Its Still Mooing]

I'm truly tired of sesame crusted tuna.

[ekammin]

The use of a foreign term (usually French or Spanish) when the English term is perfectly good.

For instance "salsa" is a specific dish, a combination of tomatoes, chilis, etc. Now, so many things are served with "a pineapple salsa", a "cranberry salsa", etc.

"Jus" instead of "sauce". I don';t thinkl the two are even the same, sinc "jus" refers to the meat's own juices, not just about any gravy.

"Sorbet". Isn't it just sherbet?

And, for heaven's sake, why is goats' milk cheese called "chevre"? Do we call cows' milk cheese "vache", or, say, Roquefort, "mouton"?

[Humbucker]

Sorbet is usually just fruit, while sherbet has dairy in it.

[alkapal]

ekammin, so for those salsa items, chutney? or is that limited to specific ingredients, too? i thought salsa was "sauce"; please correct me, anyone.

[lagatta]

roquefort would be "brebis" (ewe, the lady sheep).

I have no idea why you call a certain kind of soft, unaged goat's cheese "chèvre" (which means any kind of goat's cheese in French, but is handy because the cheese is masculine le (fromage de) chèvre, the nanny goat "la chèvre".

Au jus is a very old culinary expression in English; it is just the meat's own juices, different from a sauce or gravy.

[hungry_pangolin]

Regarding the use of "chevre" for goat cheese, I think that it's probably because there isn't a strong tradition of wide spread goat husbandry (and, hence, making goat's milk cheese) in the UK and North America. In the general (non-chowhound) population, a cheese without qualifier is assumed, rightly or wrongly, to be cow's milk cheese. In light of that, I find nothing wrong, irritating, or pretentious in calling goat cheese chevre.

[alkapal]

plus, i think there is an unfamiliarity with goat in the us, generally. not everywhere, but i would venture most places. chevre sounds nice. "goat" doesn't.

[Veggo]

"Goat" sounds very good, splayed over mesquite coals. Brings a new meaning to the nautical "well, chevre me timbers".

[hungry_pangolin]

Veggo, I put you on notice: I'm stealing that one.

[Veggo]

with my blessings, hp. we're all family here. i sometimes wonder if these long threads really get read, but maybe so
v

[swampwitch]

Veggo- I agree about the goat but pecan wood is pretty good to grill one on too

[carswell]

Gotta wonder whether it's also not a shortening of "chèvre frais" (fresh goat's milk cheese), which for the longest time was the only goat's milk cheese that North Americans were familiar with. Even the French are guilty of this to some degree: order a "chèvre chaud" (salad topped with a hot round of goat's milk cheese) in any French bistro and chances are the cheese will be chèvre frais or something very close to it. That the world has adopted the French word for the generic makes sense; the iconic goat's milk cheeses are predominantly French.

[steve h.]

no bad foods, only bad cooks.

[carswell]

Sorbets served as a "palate cleanser" in the middle of a meal. I think I've had one in my life that made any gastronomic sense.

[missfunkysoul]

not necessarily a menu item, but the chocolate/blueberry/strawberry/etc bagels confuse me. do you want a bagel or do you want a muffin? if you want a muffin, get a muffin.

[piccola]

I agree, though I admit I like cinnamon-raisin bagels. All other fruit bagels - or the dreaded chocolate bagel - should be banned.

For me, it's not so much a question of authenticity (see comment about cinnamon-raisin) as taste: those fruity/chocolatey ones taste too sweet for me.

[fara]

i personally don't think fruit in a bagel tastes good, along the same lines - fruit in cream cheese, ie. strawberry so that it looks like those fake flavored yoghurts. get over your sweet tooth America!

[swampwitch]

piccola- Chocolate bagle? never saw one tho here in Louisiana tho I'd give my eyeteeth for a good jewish deli bagle. chocolate bagle sound kinda sacreligious lol. Love this thread been laughin like crazy. Another thing to get rid of is that stuff that places outside of s. louisiana call gumbo. tomatoe rice and chicken soup is more like and tasteless to boot. Good cajun gumbo is comfort food of the higest order. Especially if made with a freshly killed "Yard chicken" from my back yard.

[vorpal]

I didn't think that I would like fruit in a bagel (apart from cinnamon raisin), but one day someone got me a blueberry bagel, and while I first wrinkled up my nose, I was pleasantly surprised. It wasn't sweet, and the blueberry added a bit of "tang" to it. I wouldn't actively reach for one, but I wouldn't pass on another offered to me.

That being said, I wouldn't actively reach for any bagel that wasn't either Montreal or NY style, though.

[maplesugar]

While we're at it can we ban muffins the size of cakes and bagels the size of a bread and butter plate? Super sized food. Blech

Edit: Sorry, posted the above before reading to the bottom of the thread - didn't mean to resurrect it

[lagatta]

Indeed, the supersizing of foods is doubtless the most pernicious of all the "trends" in dire need of retirement.

"Real" bagels, as sold in Montréal, but evidently the original NYC ones as well, are smallish, hard, almost crunchy, not huge puffy things.

[maplesugar]

Yes exactly. When I want a bagel, I want a bagel, not bread with a hole in the centre masquerading as a bagel.

[mercyteapot]

I have said the same thing to my husband many times... that the bagels that are sold here (San Diego County)... even the ones in most of the bagel shops are more like bread than authentic bagels. You're better off with frozen Lender's, frankly.

[laliz]

I'm in CA too and have never had a NY bagel, but oh how I love a good spinach/parmesan bagel; which is blasphemy I'm sure

[BobB]

True, but not as blasphemous as a blueberry bagel (I wish I were making that one up).

[SuzyInChains]

The menu items that should be retired are the ones that are not selling well. There are many popular standard items on menus that I would never consider ordering, and I am not so pretentious as to think that they should be removed simply because I don't like them, I'm tired of them, or I'm somehow offended by them.

[Panini Guy]

If only menu items that sold well were kept on menus, we'd be left with fast food, bloomin onions, crispy thai wraps or whatever those CF atrocities are, 20 oz venti caramel lattes (skim no foam 178.5 degrees whip), chicken fingers and Coors Light.

I don't get some of the comments. This is CHOWHOUND for cryin' out loud. The entire point of this forum is to share the good food finds and dismiss the crap. It's for people who care about and think about what they're eating instead of going for the "most popular" thing on the menu.

"Pretentious" is in the eye of the beholder. One can certainly make the case that everyone on this forum who is participating in the spirit of the forum's charter is pretentious because we're mostly in agreement about what's crap - much of which has been listed on this thread. In which case I'll wear my pretentiousness with pride.

[Its Still Mooing]

In that case, make me a badge as well.

[alkapal]

THANK YOU, SuzyInChains!
I am only on this thread defending items (for the record: Good shrimp cocktail, good artichoke/spinach dip). I, too, think it is snobbery to banish items. If they are poorly made, that is one thing....but just because we don't care for it.....

[Its Still Mooing]

Pretty sure we all planned on legislation to get rid of them...

[alkapal]

moo, good luck.

[Deepster]

LOL!! Mooing! I finally decided to chime in a bit here, since I've gone thru so many posts, and yours hit me so funny. As for fast foods, if they are all banished....PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE leave me a Taco Bell, as it's about the only "fast food" joint I actually love. I'm not defending it for nutrition, nor authenticity, but I just can't take the burger and chicken joints. Also, I'd hate to see "wraps" of any kind Legislated out of existence. I LOVE my homemade wraps of EVERY KIND imagineable. You can make them as healthy or as cardiac disastrous as you want. But, guess what.....they'res always a stack of tortillas living in my fridge! They can become a breakfast/lunch/dinner of just about anything you've got lying around dying in the fridge or pantry. Thanks for the chuckle. What a great thread, and even moreso the opinions shared!

[gatorfoodie]

I would have to say that the moment that a once epicurian dish shows up on the menu of national chains like Friday's (cedar planked salmon), Chilis (some bastardization of "egg rolls"), Applebees (Tyler Florence), they should be retired from fine dining establishments.

[swissgirl]

Or if not then, at the point where a played-out food item becomes a Lean Cuisine frozen entree - LC Panini sandwiches anyone? Blech!

[Peg]

Oh the glory of international differences - here in the UK I have NEVER come across spinach and artichoke dip - I must say it sounds very nice, I may give it a try at home.

Oen of the current 'oh not again' dishes in England is mashed potato on a bed of fresh steamed spinach topped with smoked haddock and a poached egg, topped with a wholegrain mustard sauce. Done well it is sublime comfort food - but it now appears EVERYWHERE and is mostly average at best.
I still order it though, so maybe not quite time to retire it.

[coney with everything]

Actually, Peg, the spinach artichoke dip IS quite nice if done correctly. There's a place near me that serves it piping hot, cheesy crusty on the top, with nicely toasted marble rye bread slices to dip--fabulous! It's a festival of fatty salty creamy crispy with a few vegs to make you feel like it's a little healthy.

But here in the States it's ubiquitous to the point of making you wonder if there's a law mandating its appearance on the menu of anyplace that serves liquor.

[marmite]

Spinach & artichoke dip is one of the nicest gifts God ever gave me.

[southernitalian]

For the love of God: CUPCAKES

[goodhealthgourmet]

agreed. most of them are awful anyway. put this trend out of its misery already.

[gingershelley]

oh GOD YES! I can't believe this is 4+ years later and THE CUPCAKES WONT DIE. And they are indeed, mostly awful!

Tho, I must say, for valentines, I made decadent dark chocolate cupcakes with dark cherry filling, and dark chocolate ganache. Those were indeed yummy wee packages:)

[alkapal]

those sound good -== love cherry and chocolate

[BobB]

I know I'm stretching the point a bit here, but I nominate the entire Applebee's chain. I would literally sooner eat at a McDonalds than at an Applebee's! At least at McDonald's you know you're getting honest junk food with no pretensions (and their fries are really good!)

[foodwich]

so many comments and opinions, deduction is mediocrity in any food, faux ingredients included is unacceptable. every type of food, dish has its lovers and haters. so i guess it would be difficult to retire any one dish since someone likes it. there will never be a general consensus. we all have our pet peeves re overdone outdated items on the menu.

[in_wonderment]

dont give up the fight foodwich, haha.

actually, the point is, if you don't want to order it, don't order it.

[foodwich]

i hope i am going through a phase but lately dont want to eat out. keep thinking of what i create at home. takes some of the fun of eating out - out. but point taken. will continue the displeasure/uproar over the mundane, trite and oh so common.

[in_wonderment]

haha good. glad to hear it.

yeah, making food at home does certainly ruin things when you eat out. at least at local average restaurants. we make our own chicken parm. with fresh tomato red sauce, expensive parm and then buy homemade noodles.... so try ordering chicken parm when you go out. most of the time we just stare at it on the menu knowing it can't taste as good.

So we order something we don't usually make at home.

[foodwich]

yup do that usually stick with things i cant do or else too convoluted to try. but must be the 'passing years' nowadays long for more of simple well made incredible ingredients.
have one huge pet peeve vast quantities of food on a plate. total turnoff

[mercyteapot]

Someone mentioned Caesar salad. I'd keep the real thing, but the endless variations, ugh. I've seen tomatoes, onions and black olives advertised as part of "Caesar" salads on different menus. Worst of all was being asked what kind of dressing I wanted on one. I changed my order.

[newJJD]

<< Worst of all was being asked what kind of dressing I wanted on one. I changed my order.>>

Thanks, that actually made me chuckle.

How about the reverse. A poorly-made, but traditional Caesar salad called something starting with "Salad of Locally sourced organic hearts of romaine..."

[Bill Hunt]

OK, there have been some tangents, but I think I've detected a few common threads here:
Canned/jarred in lieu of housemade
Frozen in lieu of fresh
Stale/old/pre-made in lieu of fresh

Then the personal tastes and some dishes that I have no idea what the posters are talking about, and am not sure I wish to know.

I'd also like to add one more: anything with "artificial imitation cheese food product." Use a real cheese and it'd be nice if it was an artisanal one, ideally from the region of the dish, or the region that the restaurant is located in. Had an otherwise great onion soup ruined by the choice of cheese-like substance ontop. This was at a restaurant with a full-time Maitre-formage on staff. They should have known better and done better. Post: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/451438

Hunt

[in_wonderment]

they make artificial gruyere?

[Bill Hunt]

I do not believe that this concoction bore any resemblance to Gruyere, living, or dead. I asked what it was, and no one, including the Maitre Formage could tell me. With about 30 excellent (real) cheeses to choose from, the soup-chef obviously reached for some petroleum-based substance. I believe that Velveta (TM), would have tasted better, than this. Otherwise, the soup was really quite good with Mauis and Vidalias, and a good veal broth. The bread was about right, but this cheese food substitute was horrid! I did not go into the same detail in that review, as I did not wish to turn anyone's stomach, but I think that I'm safe in this thread, judging from many earlier posts.

Hunt

[in_wonderment]

i found it in your posting hey. kraft baby swiss tastes just like gruyere. what on earth are you complaining about :)

he shouldve went for american. processed american. haha.

[Bill Hunt]

Actually, IIRC, Kraft "American" Cheese Food Product, has more taste. Of course, the last time that I tasted that, I was ~ 12 years old, and swore that I'd never eat it again.

Hunt

[monkeyrotica]

Maybe it's just me, but I just can't have the stuff anymore. Used to love it when I was a kid, but if I have a burger with Cheese Food Product on it, it goes through me like a Ferrari. Upper GI half life of about 20 minutes.

Yet I can consume Velveeta with no ill effects.

[swampwitch]

bill hunt and monkey erotica :cheese food? is that something you feed you baby gouda?It looks radioactive all bright orange an stif.f ukk

[danhole]

I refuse to eat any cheese product that has the term "Cheese food" on it's label. I mean, after all, wouldn't that be something you fed cheese? Like cat food - cheese food? I'm not eating it!

[Beau711]

Jarred salad dressing that restaurants pass as their 'own homemade.
Caesar salad - especially when tossed with jarred dressing.
Garlic mashed potatoes and pesto mashed potatoes.
Frozen fried calarmari.
Fettucine Alfredo
Stale cornbread when served with brunch

[DoctorQuality]

The term "Kobe" gets tossed around a little too loosely these days.
stuffed mushroom caps.
places that serve ribs, but there's no smoker in sight.
rice pilaf.
orange juice from concentrate for breakfast.
anything with the word "crostini" in it.

[linz_e_moore]

What a funny post! Most of my thoughts have already been addressed here, but I will add my two cents in anyway.

1. Spinach and Artichoke Dip.
2. Chicken Fingers (with ranch, of course)
3. French Onion Soup, topped with the ever delicious crusty bread and glob of flavorless cheese. Mmm....
4. 30 Mix-in coffees. (Caramel and chocolate latte with skim milk, 4 shots of espresso, 2 squirts of hazelnut, 1 squirt of vanilla, 1 squirt of peppermint, served lukewarm with light whipped cream and chocolate caramel syrup.) Give it a rest people, just drink chocolate milk!

[lagatta]

I DO wish I could share some real soupe à l'oignon with some of you! Made with LOTS of onions, slowly simmered. I make it with dark beer, and it is wonderful (cooks long enough that no significant amount of alcohol remains). Of course it is served with crusty bread - what else - but with good cheese, such as gruyère.

If properly made, it is a meal in itself on a cold night.

Yes, flavoured coffees are horrific. And full of sugar. People don't realise that they amount to a dessert.

[monkeyrotica]

I'll back that up. I made a batch of onion soup gratinee last night with croutons made from fresh bread, and lots of gruyere broiled on top. Washed down with lots of red wine. I'd never order it in a restaurant.

When Jacques Pepin was growin up, he'd whip up an egg yolk with some port, crack a hole in the melted cheese, and pour it into the soup. Always wanted to try that.

[SiksElement]

first of all i must say i stopped reading about half way down so if i am redundant, excuse me. Gripe number one... anything with a pineapple/mango salsa. way over done. Gripe number two..."sushi grade whatever". the fda does not actually have that as a grading standard such as the usda has prime, choice, select etc. with beef. therefore sushi grade is whatever the chef decides to call sushi grade... including that loin of tuna he pulled from the freezer. its all a hoax people. my final gripe includes anything generalized as "californian" that includes avocados. their produce production does extend beyond one item.

[Hooda_Guest]

Any of the chocolate desserts with names like Chocolate Overload, Chocolate Decadence, Chocolate Sin, and so on. I guess I like chocolate as much as the next person (sometimes I'm not even sure about that) but please, to me it should be a little more subtle and eaten in smaller quantities; not eaten from a Paul Bunyan size plate with a pitchfork.

[piccola]

And not covered with loads of other crap, like marshmallows, maraschino cherries, whipped cream, sprinkles and crushed cookies all together.

[Cat Chow]

or "coulis" of anything.

[gafferx]

I would also ban salmon mousse.
What an awful fate for a noble fish. This garbage is inedible. I almost cried when I saw at least $100 worth of salmon converted into this toxic sludge. This was at a wedding and the salmon mousse was garnished & gussied up and made a centerpiece.

[Tay]

I agree...
Just the thought of it makes my mouth water... In the bad way.
That reminds me: Add any form of aspic to the list... A hideous way to serve...Anything.

[maplesugar]

Same here. Ban gelatin salads (though I don't know I've ever seen them in a resturant) The mention of Salmon Mousse brought back memories of too many family dinners involving aspic or some other crazy jello salad concoction - lime jello with celery and cottage cheese comes to mind.

Thankfully I didn't inherit those particular cooking genes lol.

[revsharkie]

I've never been able even to consider eating Salmon Mousse after watching The Meaning of Life...

[comestina]

Ha ha--but I didn't eat the salmon mousse...

[Cat Chow]

I'm with you on salmon mousse...I want salmon, not cat food...however this preparation may be one of those things a self-respecting cat would never touch!

[gafferx]

If I were king the following get banned-

wraps
deep fried cheese of any kind
boneless chicken breasts which BTW are just a cheaper form of white meat fish
passionate -- This word would be banned

[coney with everything]

ITA about "passionate". It's a corporate buzzword--when you're looking for a job, most of the job descriptions ask if you are "passionate" about whatever drone work they want you to do. How can you be passionate about dishwashing or data entry?? (and please, I don't want to hear something from one of the million motivational management books like "Fish", et al, I've read most of them)

But...the foods we all despise for their ubiquity and tepid preparations are the epitome of all that is not passionate. They are the product of Sysco or Gordon Food Services, of people that really don't care about what they serve and diners who don't much care about what they eat. I think that's why most of us Hounds avoid chain restaurants.

I'd ban "product" in all its forms--fish, "clam chowder" on the Friday menu, Italian wedding soup, the aforementioned onion, calamari, and chicken analogs (I'm not sure I'd call them real!).

[Pampatz]

Oh king, please don't ban saganaki at a real Greek restaurant. It's the only kind of fried cheese that I like.

[GastronautMN]

You would not be king of Minnesota where the fried cheese curds arguably and justfiably are the king of the State Fair food offerings. (The state fair is a huge deal in MN, 2nd largest in the country after TX).

When made correctly they are very good, in limited doses.

Now the french canadians have devised vile combination of cheese curds, french fires and gravy called poutine that should be banned for pure health reasons. Heart attack on a plate. My understanding as that they are sold in greatg volume at bar time.

[jnstarla]

Oh dear, poutine is awesome. Really, really awesome.

[Blueicus]

Although lesser versions of Poutine are served in anglophone areas of Canada, they are nonetheless very popular.

[Avalondaughter]

There is always "disco fries" in the US, served at your local diner.

[Lemon Curry]

Agreed. *Good* poutine, with freshly fried frites and decent gravy, is like manna. It can be done badly (metallic-tasting canned gravy much?), but then, what can't?

[carswell]

Correcting some of the misinformation in another post: the term French-Canadiian is neither old-fashioned nor offensive. While some nationalist francophone Quebecers take offence at being called a Canadian of any stripe, there are plenty of Canadian francophones outside Quebec for whom French Canadian is the preferred term. Franco-Ontarians and Acadians of my acquaintance find being called *québécois* -- not *français-canadien* -- offensive. There are also any number of Québécois who don't bridle at the FC moniker. Nor does anyone take offence at organizations with names like the French-Canadian Association of the Blind, Centre for Research on French Canadian Culture, French Canadian Cultural Association of Yellowknife, etc.

Vile is a perfectly good descriptor of poutine as far as I'm concerned, though gods know the dish has legions of fans. And it is indeed a favourite snack after a night of drinking. Healthwise, I'm not convinced it's any worse than a Big Mac with a milkshake and a large order of fries. That said, in the fat sweepstakes, the gourmet versions that come garnished with a slab of foie gras may well trump anything McDo can dish up.

[lagatta]

Most people of "pure-laine" Québécois descent I know here, in Québec, do find the FC term old fashioned, and SOMEWHAT offensive, not like the n- word of anything, but somewhat antiquated, referring to a very traditional and hidebound society. That is not misinformation. Indeed, the attitude outside Québec is quite different, but not here, whatever people's constitutional outlooks. It is not limited to extreme nationalists by any means.

Vile is simply my opinion, nothing more nor less.

[tom porc]

ALL menu items that arent done well and taste bad should be retired.

[Romanmk]

Crab Rangoon must have been a trend a long time ago. I don't know why it is still on restaurant menus.

When otherwise decent Asian restaurants serve potstickers out of obligation or afterthought, and don't make them right. I'm sick of charred/gummy/greasy gyoza etc.

Serving and refilling tortilla chips automatically at Cal-Mex and Tex-Mex places. If I'm in the mood for chips I will order them.

[alkapal]

amazingly, i just saw a group of two couples with chinese granny (all chinese but for one anglo husband) order crab ranggon at a chinese restaurant here in northern virginia. odd, i thought.

wasn't it created by trader vic? i find them tasteless, personally.

[Cat Chow]

Crab Rangoon and the pu-pu platter are Trader Vic's inventions! As well as the bongo-bongo soup and the polynesian snowball are also Trader Vic concoctions. If a person is of a certain age, they will probably crave these from the era gone by when Trader Vic's was the rage.

Personally, the only place where these belong is at a Trader Vic's restaurant, and if I want to get my kitsch-tiki fix, I'll go to Trader Vic's.

[Sam Fujisaka]

If anything containing chicken tenders (I think that's what they're called) disappeared, I'd not notice: they were invented after I left the US. What are they, by the way?

[Veggo]

They are like fish sticks, but made from poultry leftovers.

Think of sawmills, lumber, and then sawdust.
Now think of chickens, skinless chicken breasts, and then chicken tenders.

Now you have the picture, Sam

[Tay]

In many cases, scary bits of chicken compressed into resembling an actual strip/chunk of chicken... You are so not missing anything.

[Blueicus]

Man, it really sucks when people go around sullying the name of things when they've no idea what they're talking about. Chicken nuggets (like the McDonalds white/dark/gray meat ilk) are more like extruded minced chicken mystery meats. The real "tenderloin" of the chicken meat is a small pull-away section underneath the breast and by the breastbone area and is absolutely delicious when fried and breaded. To have a personal preference is one thing, but who are "you" to go around banishing menu items just because one thinks they're passe. I'll enjoy my crepes suzette all alone, thank you very much.

[jfood]

B

Jfood thinks you need to go back and re-read. Sam was asking what they were and jfood described exactly what you did (the tenderloin but forgot the name) and agreed that when these are breaded and fried (hopefully that;s the order you do as well), it's called the chef's treat in casa jfood.

Jfood does not think the standard everyone should try to meet is served to kids in school. the food jfood ate in school is a memory he would like to forget.

[in_wonderment]

Alright, I'm going to be evil and unpopular here. But, if you know the contents of chicken nuggets (random mystery parts of the chicken), I'm not sure why everyone hates them. They taste good to me.

I fail to see how this is any different than a hotdog, pepperoni, or really most processed meat. Sausage, yum. Most of these things are made with random pieces of the pig.

Can someone explain? Or should we ban those things too?

[Sam Fujisaka]

Blueicus, I'm the one who doesn't/didn't know what a "chicken tender" is. People have responded regarding chicken tenders, chicken nuggets (Blueicus, in wonderment) , chicken fingers (jfood), stuff made out of compressed chicken sawdust (Veggo, Tay), and the very good part taken from next to the bone when removing the breast fillet (jfood, Blueicus, ItsStillMooing, DarkRose)...???

[Veggo]

Sam, I think my bias starts from the old maxim that "nature abhors a straight line".

[in_wonderment]

Chicken Nuggets - Random everything parts of a chicken.

Chicken Tengers - Usually white breast meat. My Tyson chicken tenders read "breast shaped patties... (small print) with rib meat" So specific parts of the chicken.

Chicken Fingers - To me, this means less processed than the others, and more continuous breast meat

Compressed chicken sawdust - I think they made this up in good fun about the mystery meat in chicken nuggets. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And the last "Very good part taken from next to the breast.." - No idea. Haha.

[danhole]

"And the last "Very good part taken from next to the breast.." - No idea. Haha."

When I take a boneless skinless chicken breast out of the package, and want to pound it down to a thinner patty, there is a small strip of meat and that is the "tender". You put the breast down, with the meaty part up, on the cutting board, and on one side you have the fat part of the breast. On the opposite side there is a little flap that is much thinner, and it, if you take your hand across the meat, will fall off to the side. Cut that off and save it for a real tender. Or you can just buy the tenders cut at the market. Better than the Tyson knock off.

There are many different names for all of these chicken products - popcorn chicken, chicken crispers, chicken strips, and the ones already named. The most important thing to ask is "is this all white chicken meat?" If it isn't run, don't walk!

Nuggets are "mystery meat", IMO. And have you seen those chicken "fries"? Who knows what the heck is in that! Maybe that is the "Compressed chicken sawdust" that you mentioned.

[dmckean]

Why limit yourself to all white meat? Most of what I see being sold as "chicken tenders" in the supermarket is boneless thigh meat and that's the best stuff on the entire chicken.

[alkapal]

i'm with you on the thigh meat!

[Avalondaughter]

I konw what you mean. I stopped eating McD's nuggets when they stopped frying them in beef fat and used 100% white meat.

No they had very little resemblance to actual chicken when I was a kid, but they tasted really good.

[WCchopper]

Is the objection to the dish itself or to the mediocrity and pretension of it?

[Its Still Mooing]

I hate pretense, but I hate monotonous mediocrity more.

[alkapal]

wchopper, what is pretentious about "blackened"? i don't understand your comment.....

[Panini Guy]

Back in the early 80s I had the privilege of getting a table a K-Pauls and ordering blackened redfish when it was still "novel" and when Mr. Prudhomme himself was still over the stove, dripping sweat from his brow into the superheated pans.

It was delicious.

There was an incredible amount of smoke with his method - something you can't really duplicate at home w/o a super-duper exhaust system. Unfortunately, it would appear 99% or so of the restaurants doing this dish can't replicate it either. But I wouldn't want to see it go away. Just limit it to folks who can pull it off. Pretentious? Hardly.

What is it with the word "pretentious" around here anyway? Seems to be thrown around an awful lot. The forum is about great chow, not average grub. That's inevitably going to lead to differences of opinion on what floats one's boat, but doesn't mean it's "pretentious".

[danhole]

I once asked a chef how to achieve Blackened food in my home, and he said Do NOT even try, you could burn your house down. So I have to rely on restaurants if I want something blackened.

Of course we have a joke around here about blackened food. Every time my DH cooks sausage on the grill he burns it. So we eat "Blackened Sausage".

[coll]

I had a chef show me a way to blacken tuna, first you put it in the freezer for 15 or 20 minutes so it won't cook too fast (because I like my tuna rare), and then burn some butter in a cast iron pan to make the fish extra black (also coat it in spices of course). Probably not authentic, but it works for me. I also thought that if I used the stupid side burner on the BBQ there'd be no smoke problem, but unfortunately I traded up this summer before I ever tried that idea out.

[Bill Hunt]

Hey, a burnt weenie sandwich (no "sammie" here), can be a tasty thing. I always crisp the sausages a bit more than most of my neighbors do, but then I'm from the South, and Paul Prudhomme did "invent" blackened whatever.

Hunt

[danhole]

You and my husband would get along well! He likes things "crispy." I always try not to burn things, and he protests loudly! So I take out my portion and burn away! Yea baby, blackened skillet potatoes, that's what he likes, and burnt weenies, too!

I think you have a good point about the dishes should be relegated to those who do them well. Once a place depends on sysco, for their spinach-artichoke dip, buffalo wings, poppers, etc, chicken strips, then I stop eating them! And you can tell, but they don't seem to know this!

There is a restaurant in town that has this spinach, artichoke dip, that is obviously homemade, which has a southwestern spin on it. It's almost like a spicy queso type version with fresh, diced tomatoes sprinkled on top. It still tastes like the original, but with such a delicious spin on it! I wish I could find that recipe!

[Bill Hunt]

Yes, I was horribly shocked, reading the afore mentioned trade pubs., in my client's office. They were filled with thousands of pre-processed items, and some would have passed (visually, at least) for house-made. I had no clue that that segment of the business had gotten so big. They had *everything* in commercial freezer packs. It opened my eyes, though did not do a lot for my stomach.

I'm sure that many on this board, were already aware of how expansive this part of commercial cooking was. I did not, and was floored.

Hunt

[Cat Chow]

Aren' t those burnt hot dogs called 'cremators' in Chi-Town. To be specific, the outside is burnt black but the inside still normal looking.

We love 'em!!

[Bill Hunt]

Good point. I think that many of the dishes mentioned here, should be relegated to those, who do them well. The others should cease and desist. If a restaurant/chef/cook does it well, then they should get a pass, otherwise, ANCH! Go home!

Hunt

[WCchopper]

My question was not in reference to "blackened" but to whether the objections listed in this thread were to the dishes themselves, or when the dishes were presented in a mediocre or pretentious way. It just seemed like most of the things being mentioned were not inherently "bad" dishes. They were just becoming ubiquitous and the quality was suffering. Or were being made "fancy" and losing the simple quality that people wanted in the first place.

I would never refer to such an original and venerable technique as pretentious and am sorry that because of where it happened to fall in the thread that it appeared as such.

[alkapal]

thanks, wc! i should have tried to read better. "posting drift"
-- happens to me, too! ;-)

[robertjsweet]

think it has died already...blackened anything.....can we say overcooked....

[Tay]

Ok by me...As far as I'm concerned, "blackened" should have been shut down at the gate

[piccola]

I just wish restaurants would experiment a little with their veg options, instead of always serving a grilled veggie wrap/panino or a salad with goat cheese. Sometimes, there's the standard pasta primavera, maybe even a Caprese salad if they're really trying.

And, of course, the hummus plate - which, as others have mentioned, can be fantastic at a Middle-Eastern restaurant, but dismal elsewhere.

Come on, there's so much more you can do for vegetarians! (And obviously, so much cheese creates problems for vegans or the lactose-intolerant, though luckily that's not my issue.)

What I wouldn't give for a restaurant to offer me a roasted squash and wild mushroom strudel, a chestnut pasta with fall vegetables or a crispy vegetable pancake with spicy dipping sauce...

[mordacity]

I object to pretty much everything that's been said. I agree that there are many dishes that are overdone, and many that are done poorly, especially at low-budget chain restos. But come on, do you really want to see them banished from the earth? Badly-cooked food is inexcusable, but those oh-too-common items are common because they are delicious and lots of people like them. If you see one of your pet peeve items on the menu, don't eat it! If you are finding that everything on the menu is unexciting to you or badly cooked, find another restaurant! But I know that every once in a while I have a craving for a pound of fried onion dipped in ranch dressing, and I like it to be around when I want it.

[in_wonderment]

Agreed. Although I think what others are saying is that every once and awhile it would be nice to try something differently. Chains have test kitchens, and can find new ways to make old dishes.

I do agree that I wouldn't want them banished though. Every once and awhile every one wants these silly things. I love the fried onion and ranch... and I also love how every chain names it something different. Awesome Blossom. Bloomin' Onion. etc. Hilarious.

Or perhaps a chain can drop the onion for awhile, and add in a test appetizer. For fun. Variety is good, I promise :)

[Tay]

As annoying and over offered as many of these dishes are, I don't think I'd want to see anythng banished forever. Think: Passenger pigeon :-} I'd just like to see restaurants do a better job of preparing them, or, as many Posters suggested, drop them from their menu's, leaving them to the restaurants that know how to get them right. Sometimes,well prepared, common place treasures are to be found in the most unexpected places, EG: A perfect chocolate souffle at a local eatery or wondeful, fresh, crisp calamari at the neighborhood Pizzaria/restaurant 'joint' I'd just suggest avioding those menu items that make you cringe. That being said, if I were tossing something, I'd have to state that I wouldn't cry over the loss of what is usually passed off as "French Onion Soup." A salty cup of watery broth, covered by a rubbery, gluey slab of melted greasy low grade of mozzarella-like cheese food

[lagatta]

Once again, REAL soupe à l'oignon is delicious though I make mine with St-Ambroise Oatmeal Stout (dark beer) and proper cheese.

[Tay]

lagatta
Agreed. REAL Onion soup is delicious, and a rarity these days.
It's just one of those menu items that is offered by pretty much everyone and tastes vile pretty much everywhere.

[Veggo]

Tay, I have a wonderful if not a bit dated recipe for Passenger Pigeon. "Squab a la Stowaway".

[Tay]

Veggo
Another reason to remain, (or become )the other, alternate kind of Veg.

[amy_rc]

Awesome Blossoms are only Awesome if you buy one from the vendor at the county fair...

[jfood]

jfood reads everyone's list and he has to be honest. Most of the items have appeal at some given time during the course of the year. But there are a few items that jfood agrees with and might add one or two.

- Lavender flavored anything (especially creme brulee). Reminds jfood of visiting his grandma in the 60's. blech
- Overcooked hamburgers. if it passes medium doneness, the dog gets it. gotta have pink.
- Pizza with froo-froo toppings. Pizza is made for traditional toppings, i.e. sausage, pepperoni, meatball, etc. What the heck is a Thai Pizza? Like ordering Moo Shu Pork Parmesan. Jfood has no problem calling it "flatbread" or some other name but please leave the term "pizza" alone
- Froo-Froo coffee. Can you see jfood's smile on the news that Starbucks is seeing a drop in consumer spending. Jfood's feet are raw from standing on the soapbox for so many years telling people that their money was better spent elsewhere and $4 for a coffee proves PT Barnum is alive and kicking
-The term "Seared" - everyone thinks it's raw inside, crispy outside. jfood sears beef before braising, its a method not a result.
- %organic - jfood is fairly binary. Either it is organic or it's not. 70% organic could mean the other 30% is stuff you want nothing to do with. What is this about, we're trying? Nike this idea.
- Flavored coffees - When jfood walks into a coffee shop he wants to smell the rich smell of freshly brewed joe, not vanilla, hazlenut, peppermint...

[hungry_pangolin]

I agree with jfood, and an above poster, that a lot of what people are listing I quite like on occasion. I think that it comes down to quality, and not concept, in most instances. On the calamari issue, my complaint is that it's *always* battered and deepfried. It's no more labour to saute, throw in a bit of garlic, pepper, white wine, parsley, and plate it. Healthier and more latitude for the cook to express him-/herself, too. I also agree with jfood on the excessive froo-frooiness of conceptually simple things like pizza and coffee. I think that it comes down to being respectful of an authentic concept, and you will have good chow. Except that foams aren't food. Sorry, Senor Adria.

[JayVaBeach]

Okay - I'm in agreement with Lavender flavored food - it's silly actually; however, there's nothing more fresh, crisp & clean than Williams-Sonoma French Lavender Essential Oil Collection ! The hand soap and lotion are awesome. The dish soap contains soapbark extract, one of nature's best degreasers. The subtle scent of the smoke-free kitchen candle neutralizes cooking odors and lightly diffuses throughout my loft.

[revsharkie]

I am so with you about the pizza toppings. When I order pizza, I want red sauce, onions, pepperoni, sausage, peppers, mushrooms, olives, that kind of thing. I do NOT want Alfredo sauce, pesto, chicken, broccoli, artichoke hearts (truthfully, I don't want artichoke hearts anywhere, but that's just me), taco toppings, dill pickles (yes, really!), barbecue sauce, tuna fish, or anything else that doesn't belong on pizza.

And while we're on the subject, I don't care if sandwiches remain on menus everywhere, but WHO THE #@$% DECIDED THEY NEEDED TO BE CALLED SAMMIES!!! Knock it off, already.

[bubbles4me]

Kind of agree about the pizza but I do love a 4 cheese pizza on thin crust and I pile a bunch of salad greens, (at home with lemon garlic dressing) fold over and eat away.
OH the Sammie thing makes me crazy!!! (My name is Samantha and I see Sammie on a menu and I want to scream) Are we seriously too lazy or trying to be pseudo-hip by shorting the word sandwich??? Lame

[Bill Hunt]

I don’t see the term “sammie,” on many menus. But along those lines, any menu that is written is dialect, whether it’s Deep South, Texas or whatever, should be burned.

Hunt

[alkapal]

i can't see any self-respecting "Deep South" menu containing the term "sammie".

[danhole]

I have never seen that term in a restaurant, but I do know that RR has coined the phrase and she is from NYC! Don't blame the south for every thing that sounds stupid. I am in Texas and I can just hear the barbs I would get if I walked into a place and asked for a "sammie". "Sammie? We don't have no stinkin' sammies!"

Of course there is a local mexican restaurant here that their catch phrase is something like "Ees pretty good" spelled to read like you are speaking broken English. Pretty tacky and I don't know how they get away with it!

[Bill Hunt]

Actually, my post should have read "don't see the word 'sammies' on ANY menus." That's what I get for doing a Zinfandel tasting, while posting to CH. No, I do not believe that the "sammie" thing is from the Deep South. Even with dialect on the menus, I've never seen it. Now, I've seen a bunch of other loathsome stuff, but not that. If I want dialect, I'll read Eudora Welty. I do not want it on my menus.

Sorry for the mis-typing and the confusion. My "bad."

Hunt

[alkapal]

no worries, mate! just defending the south.....we're fellow southerners, so we're copasetic!
ps, how was the zin? ;-)

[Bill Hunt]

Just checking out my Turley and Biale allocations. All were big, fruit-forward ("jammy") and with higher-than-average alcohol. None was up to the Black Chicken (Biale), or the Hayne (Turley), but I had not expected them to be. Might do a Biale Aldo's Vineyard as the big red for Thanksgiving. Kind of depends on who shows up. I'd hate to waste it on folk, who might not care for this sort of Zin.

Hunt

[alkapal]

Happy Thanksgiving!

[vvvindaloo]

I am pretty sure that RR is from MASS and lived upstate NY somewhere, not NYC.

[coney with everything]

Quizno's is advertising "sammies", on "artisan bread", no less. God help us all

[LaLa]

I cringe everythime I see this!

http://johnbscigarblog.blogspot.com/

[hungry_pangolin]

On a thread, many months ago, I got flamed, as being a narrow-minded sod. My position was that for pizza ingredients, one should add only ingredients available in Italy. Articoke hearts? Possibly. Pineapple? Never.

[Bill Hunt]

I can see that point. However, as one who has enjoyed many non-traditional items on my pizzas (always in the US), I will abstain from commenting. Much.

I did do a check of what I get most often now, and most do have IT, as a point of origin, though might well be non-traditional to anything resembling a pizza there: cheeses (the more, the better), tomato sauce with seasoning, sun-dried tomatoes, pepperoini, artichoke hearts, Gorgonzola (in addition to the more traditional cheeses), toasted garlic and green (not black/ripe) olives. Fortunately, we have a local shop, just over the hill, that will give me all, except for the green olives, but I always keep a jar of Progresso Olive Salad, or similar, in the 'fridge.

Still, I've had great pineapple & Canadian bacon and do a mean BBQ brisket pizza with Boboli [SP?]. Non-traditional to the Nth degree, but oh, so tasty. Still, I see your point.

Now, and it's fuel for another thread, where exactly did, what the US knows as pizza, actually start. I've heard arguments for Napoli, but some for Philly and some for NYC. Maybe a quick Wiki-trip is in order.

Hunt

[jfood]

HP

Jfood has been carrying the torch for traditional toppings only to call it pizza. CPK should be renamed California Flatbread Kitchen or something else. Jfood will never call it pineapple you-know-what.

Wholeheartedly support this.

[ESNY]

My feelings on pizza toppings can be summed up by "If it doesn't have a mother, don't put it on my pizza". Pepperoni, sausage, meatballs. Fruit and veggies need not apply.

[goodhealthgourmet]

i have to defend mushrooms, onions and artichoke hearts here. oh, and what would a traditional margherita be without basil?

[ESNY]

I agree on the basil, but remember, it is an herb not a veggie, thus is not subject to my scorn.

[jfood]

:-(( jfood loves sausage and peppers.

[sheiladeedee]

If you cook the onions and the peppers with the sausage until they are drowned in browny sausagey goodness then they become honorary meat.

[amy_rc]

My dad is a meat-n-potatos man, so if we had pizza it was always Meat Lovers. My husband feels the same way about his pizza. I prefer spinach, tomatoes and mushrooms. Meat need not apply.

[jfood]

the first person jfood heard call it a "sammie" was Rachel Ray. Enough said.

[lagatta]

Not all of the above are traditional pizza toppings - "pepperoni" doesn't exist in Italy. Artichokes, on the other hand, may be found on pizzas there, as are various types of fish and seafood.

[coll]

My husband is SO against toppings on pizza, I think growing up in Brooklyn there was no such thing (many years ago). You just went to the bakery and got Sicilian type pie, according to him. It's such a big deal that I 'm afraid to admit I like mushrooms and eggplant on mine, and if it wasn't for him I'd probably be eating garbage pie.
But you're right, in Italy we enjoyed Caprese (I think artichokes, olives, anchovies, etc) and also shellfish pie, piled high with clams, mussels and everything else still in the shell. That was in Sorrento though, what about the rest of Italy? In Rome it was just dough, sauce and cheese, just like Brooklyn.

[EWSflash]

With you on th flavored coffee. BTW, I saw an article once that pointed out what the author thought was a Real Truth- The more foofoo and complicated your Starbuck's order is, the bigger an a-hole you are. It makes sense if you think aboout it or watched 'Frasier' back in the day.

[in_wonderment]

You have to remember though, that not everyone wants to make these things at home. I love calamari, but frankly, I'll take bad calamari over me having to clean squid and fry it. I'd rather pay you 10 dollars to make me a mediocre version.

Also, creme brulee is tedious. And as a restaurant you're guaranteed that everyone will like it. I'd venture the same with most desserts. Will I in my own home bake a huge delicious chocolate cake whenever I feel like it? No. Will I go to a restaurant to buy a slice of delicious chocolate cake whenever I feel like it? Yes.

Its a waste of time and effort to make huge desserts that your family likely doesn't "need" to eat anyways.

That said, anything that can be made at home, I refuse to defend. I agree with wraps or spinach and artichoke dip. Easily made at home. And unless you as a restaurant can take it above and beyond what I can make, then frankly I'm not impressed.

Whoever said CRABCAKES is dead on. They are easily made at home, but what scares me is that restaurants don't place any crab in their crabcakes. Either add actual meat when you charge me, or stop making them. There has been several times where I've wanted to complain, but wasn't sure how to do it. Short of - yeah... you don't know how to make these.

[goodhealthgourmet]

great topic...and i love your screen name.

ditto on many already mentioned:
spinach artichoke dip
tuna tartare
fried calamari
caesar salad
chicken fingers
salad topped with fried chicken
foams
quesadillas in non-mexican or southwestern restaurants
the ubiquitous molten chocolate cake [only because it's NEVER good. if restaurants actually offered a decent one on occasion i might not have such an issue with it.]

additions:
"seasonal berries" served in the dead of winter
inedible garnishes
any "teriyaki" dish at japanese restaurant. if that's what you;re going to order, you shouldn't even bother going to a restaurant.
chinese/asian chicken salad. you know the one - cabbage, dried noodles or rice sticks, almonds, sesame seeds, mandarin oranges...ugh.
truffle oil
shrimp cocktail
spinach salad with candied nuts and cheese

oh, and on breakfast/brunch menus, "homemade" granola.

[alkapal]

i'm sorry, goodhealthgourmet, but good shrimp cocktail is in the pantheon of the food glories of the ages. i shall defend good shrimp cocktail, and protect her reputation for all time.

(from a dedicated, born and bred, Gulf Coast shrimp lover....)

[foodwich]

had to add this foreign cinema san fran recent trip, awful shrimp cocktail. bits of shell stuck to the shrimp almost made me gag. but have had great shrimp cocktail too so i would leave that.

[goodhealthgourmet]

i should have explained...i'm a shrimp-lover as well, which is precisely why i hate shrimp cocktail at restaurants. when was the last time you had a GOOD one? the shrimp is always flavorless, and usually rubbery/overcooked...and it's often served with an insipid, bland cocktail sauce that tastes too much like ketchup. i'd rather make it at home...i can do a much better job myself with both the shrimp and the sauce than anything i've had in a restaurant in years.

[Bill Hunt]

It has been far too long. So long, in fact, that I failing to recall the last edible one. Had a "signature" Shrimp Cocktail at a Mid-west steakhouse, not too long ago. At ~ $18, it consisted of a cute server, with ice below the Martini-type glass funnel, but the shrimp were mealy and not even close to being fresh. I'd guess that they were placed into a freezer during the Truman administration, to be ressurected for our dish. "Signature?" I knew we were in for some poor dining and the restaurant did nothing to counter that feeling.

Hunt

[susancinsf]

last time I had a GOOD shrimp cocktail was about three weeks ago, in La Paz (Baja California)...but then, shrimp cocktails in Mexico are a whole different dish than here in the states.....

[goodhealthgourmet]

yeah, that doesn't count :)

shrimp cocktail and ceviche are both always better south of the border.

[Pampatz]

Our coctel de camarones at La Guera in Patzcuaro is better than any that I've ever had. Chopped red onions and avocado with a sweet-spicy thin sauce with bite size shrimps. Yum.