457598 Mon Nov 05 15:01:53 -0800 2007 4 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 3097780 So I found myself in the middle of a raging debate with someone the other day, while discussing Babette de Roziere's new cookbook "Creole". My point was (and I think I was being reasonable) that Creole food in Louisiana and Creole food in Guadaloupe (the author's birthplace) are clearly different things, albeit with some similarities. I would personally assume that although there is native american, french and african influence present in both cuisine--geography, distance and agriculture would yield differentiated cooking styles and recipes. The person's argument is basically that you put the same ingredients into two pots and you make the same cake. The cooking styles--West Indian Creole and Louisiana creole--are virtually identical. I think my mother is mad for making this argument--the problem is that i don't know enough about American Creole or any Creole at all to make my point. So chowhounders, with all your infinite food wisdom, perhaps I can learn something AND win a ridiculous argument. Insight? Mon Nov 05 15:01:53 -0800 2007 107284 likaluca 1 3099186 Creole is in no way the label for a specific cuisine, although that's how we typically know it in the US. Creole is a cultural phenomenon. in its simplest definition, its the intersection of cultures, and also its aftermath. Its what was born out of caribbean colonization by europe, and the imposition of slavery for example. now, all creole culture has specific intersections and influences... haiti and and the louisiana cajun culture is a meeting of french, african, and some indigenous... PR, Cuba, and The Dominican republic creole culture draw from Spanish, African and Taino/Indigenous cultures Trinidad/Tobago draw also from East Indian culture (indentured servants) as well as african and european... Islands Like Curacao draw upon Dutch, as well as african and indigenous cultures. all this came out of colonization and slavery, diaspora. Post-colonization, the culture metamophoses into something else completely, an aftermath of a forced cultural shift. amazing things come out of it though. Creole nature, effects just about every aspect of a culture: religion, music, art, customs, language...and food. when you really start looking at the nuts and bolts of a creole dish you realize a few things: 1) there are definately basics to them all, 2) they're often bold and rebellious meals, and 3) they are everyday meals, peasant food, comfort food, essential food. You also start noticing which elements come from what cultures...its fascinating, lemme tell ya. Tue Nov 06 06:26:32 -0800 2007 3097780 135178 TSQ75 1 3099603 To flesh out what was previously said, while Creoles are all a mixture of natives and non-natives, what comprises that mixture differs. Puerto Ricans are technically Native American, European and African. Technically, so are Louisiana creoles. Does that make their cultures the same or their cuisine the same? Cuisine is not just a function of culture. It is also dictated by the resources available in any one space. Guadeloupe, being a Caribbean island has access to a wider range of saltwater fish, tropical fruits and produce and thus flavors like manioc, yucca, banana feature much more predominantly than in Louisiana creole. While cod and bananas might be a fine breakfast in Guadeloupe, a Louisianan would look at that plate funnily, just as much as grillades would not be exactly typical fare in Guadeloupe. Moreover the influence of East Indians and other Asians in Guadeloupe has no equivalent in Louisiana creole. Your mother is painting cultures with a very broad brush. If the mixtures of native and settler cultures are all the same, then Mexican food should be the same thing as Quebecois. Tue Nov 06 08:17:05 -0800 2007 3097780 68363 JungMann 1 3101083 Even if it were possible to "put the same ingredients into two pots," you wouldn't end up with "the same cake" because the cooks who are loosely called "Creole" are as different as the various experiences that caused them to be located throughout the Americas. The foods and techniques will range from the Haute Creole that was a New World version of French Haute Cuisine in New Orleans which just adapted to local ingredients when European products were unavailable, to the most rustic indigenous dishes, to the melds of New World foods with crops introduced by immigrants from Europe and Africa. The fine cooking of the port cities of Mobile, Charleston, and Savannah were heavily affected by Creole influences although they rarely get the credit they deserve. They were substantially influenced by British colonial culture and it's not uncommon to find curries and Caribbean-type foods in the Low Country and throughout the Gulf South. There isn't even an agreed upon definition of Creole. It means many things including those outlined previously. Another used in Louisiana and in many dictionaries is a person born in the colonies but of European descent. This terminology was common in the West Indies and Spain, and referred to whites descended from early French or Spanish settlers in the US Gulf States who preserved their speech and culture. It was and is still used that way in New Orleans, South Louisiana and parts of the Gulf South. There were also wealthy black Creoles, many of them slave owners themselves, whose families had never been slaves. Tue Nov 06 13:56:11 -0800 2007 3097780 32444 MakingSense 1 3101550 I think of a cuisine much more in terms of ingredients than cooking techniques. A oot roast in Germany, though cooked about the same as one in Peoria, will typically taste much different. So I'd say the term Crole as applied to Louisiana cuisine and Caribbean cuisine is misleading -- at least to an American. Tue Nov 06 16:31:21 -0800 2007 3097780 55316 mpalmer6c