457477 Mon Nov 05 11:06:01 -0800 2007 13 49 France 0 3096765 Help on Bordeaux trip, please. I'm interested in an educational trip versus ambiance. Preferably with older vintages to taste and compare, barrel tastings to see the evolution of the wine?? and with great explanations of how things work at their site: their vit practices and winemaking technique etc. However, if they're only generous with the older vintage tasting, that's fine too. If you have recs on places that are negociants or distributors that aren't actually estates that's fine too. Thanks in advance! Mon Nov 05 11:06:01 -0800 2007 10403 StephP 1 3097826 Bordeaux producers for the most part are not set up for tasting or direct marketing to consumers. As you're aware, their negociants handle that for them. One that is set up for wine tourism that comes to mind is Lynch Bages, and it has an inn as well. Otherwise, you'll be more successful working through trade contacts to arrange visits. You should try to go in March/April when the new vintage is available for tasting and all the producers are geared up for visitors to the mass tastings in town and some to the estates. Given your interests, I would suggest trying to get into Pontet Cadet. It has made a great turnaround in the last decade. Much has been due to changes in vit practices, improving drainage with a big channeling project, and shifting to biodynamic. Direct an inquiry to Melanie Tesseron at the estate explaining your background and tell her that I referred you. http://pontet-canet.com/ Here's my photo set for a visit to Ch. Rieussec last year, http://flickr.com/photos/melaniewong/sets/72057594099991740/ Mon Nov 05 15:16:27 -0800 2007 3096765 10039 Melanie Wong 2 3123048 Thanks for the contact information! Tue Nov 13 19:37:24 -0800 2007 3097826 10403 StephP 1 3099353 Melanie is correct, so far as she goes, in that most Bordelias châteaux are not set up for visitors -- cetainly not the way U.S. wneries are. However, a drive through the countryside will certainly be dotted with signs reading "Dégustation et Vente" (tasting & sales). That said, they are in the business of selling, and while the château may indeed have a few older vintages available for sales, rarely are they open for tasting. The number of visitors in a day, relative to your average (and relatively obscure) Napa Valley producer, is so small that most of the bottle(s) would end up being thrown away . . . Mostly, however, châteaux have the new vintage for sale. Period. Older vintages are usally limited to the library. Older stocks available for sale are generally held by either the négociants or, much more likely, by merchants in the UK (the traditional source for securing older vintages in quantity). Depending upon the specific château, some may have employees who speak English. The "famous" places generally have full-time employees who speak English. The smaller ones may, but mostly these will be young Brits in the wine trade learning more about wine by (for example) working at a château for 3, 6, or 12 months, OR they will be American enology/viticulture students from UC Davis, CSU Fresno, etc. working for 6-12 months. The ability to speak French will certainly help, especially at smaller, less well known estates. I don't know if you do, but IF you have some industry contacts, try to go through them, as Melanie suggests. You can try to arrange things via email and the web with individual châteaux, but this will be far more difficult and time-consuming. Jason Tue Nov 06 07:13:12 -0800 2007 3096765 28122 zin1953 1 3122753 If you are familiar with the Bordeaux producers that you are interested in visiting, then emailing them directly should elicit sufficient responders for you to make choices. Googling for contact information is a good start. In a few instances, I called those that I was very interested in visiting that did not respond to my email. Barrel tasting were offered in the ones that I made arrangements to visit, and these were conducted with the wineries' winemakers/proprietors. Additional tastings from recent bottlings were also include in most. A couple of wineries offered lunches and which we accepted. Good luck and enjoy Bordeaux. Tue Nov 13 17:32:01 -0800 2007 3096765 10578 RCC 2 3123052 Which places did you find the most informative during your trip? Tue Nov 13 19:38:19 -0800 2007 3122753 10403 StephP 1 3122845 For what it is worth, Mouton-Rothschild has an extensive tour open to the public that ends with a barrel tasting of the next vintage to be bottled. I believe an appointment is necessary, and the tour/tasting certainly is not free but I could not tell you how much it is. Tue Nov 13 18:06:30 -0800 2007 3096765 50041 whiner 2 3123060 Thanks! If you were planning a trip, are there any other places you wouldn't miss? Tue Nov 13 19:42:26 -0800 2007 3122845 10403 StephP 3 3123082 Well... I had possibly the best meal of my life at the Relais and Chateau called the Saint James in Bouliac. But that was when a different chef (Jean-Marie Amat) was there. I don't know anything about the new guy. Tue Nov 13 19:53:52 -0800 2007 3123060 50041 whiner 4 3123468 Have not tried it but Ecole Vins Bordeaux [ecole.vins-bordeaux.fr] runs educational courses with visits. Understand Tourist office also run tours. If you have a rapport with a shipper near your hometown perhaps an intro to a chateau can be arranged (that's what we did). We found St Emilion far less intimidating than Bordeaux for casual tastings. Wed Nov 14 01:49:02 -0800 2007 3123082 134599 legume 5 3124420 I've not yet been to bordeaux, but I can say for certain that the Burgundy Wine Bureau (and École) has a number of excellent programs from one afternoon to one week, that gets you into wineries you never would otherwise. I can only guess that is the case in B ordeaux. I would contact them, for sure. As well, I would email the wineries you are interested in visiting. You maybe pleasantly surprised with some personal invitations for private tours. Personally, I would not miss Chateau Ducru Beaucaillou. It is my favorite Bordeaux, and their 2nd and 3rd labels are just great, as well, at a fraction of the price. Wed Nov 14 09:40:35 -0800 2007 3123468 52499 ChefJune 6 3136327 What is the Chateau's 3rd label? Is that like their 3rd wine? Sun Nov 18 13:06:12 -0800 2007 3124420 10578 RCC 7 3136584 The second label is Branaire Ducru, and the third is La Croix de Beaucaillou Sun Nov 18 14:49:58 -0800 2007 3136327 52499 ChefJune 8 3136604 As far as I know - Branaire Ducru is a completely different chateau. Other than being situated in the same commune of Saint-Julien, Branaire Ducru is not related to the ownership, management and winemaker at Ducru Beaucaillou. La Croix de Beaucaillou is the 2nd wine of Ducru Beaucaillou - not the third as per your post. Sun Nov 18 14:59:13 -0800 2007 3136584 10578 RCC