456756 Fri Nov 02 17:02:59 -0700 2007 20 7 Chicago Area 0 3090689 Hi all, Hubby (Meat Lover) and I (strict vegetarian) will be in Chicago for 3 nights in January - Jan 1st to 4th and we are looking for recommendations on restaurants for lunch and dinner please. We are booked into the Amalfi which is on 20 W Kinzie St, (although we may yet change this to either the Omni on 676 North Michigan Ave or the Sofitel Water Tower on 20 East Chestnut St - Downtown if we find a deal!). We will be seeing Jersey Boys in the LaSalle Bank Theatre one night so need someplace between the Hotel and that area. On the other nights we can be flexible. Now here's the deal - I'm a VERY strict vegetarian, bordering on Vegan - I don't eat meat, fish foul OR cheese but do take milk / cream and eggs. I'm not keen on Tofu (feels too much like meat for me) and I will eat most any cuisine. Hubby will be looking for a good steak on one night I'm sure although what kind of steak I'm not exactly sure - we don't have the choice here in Ireland that you get in the US so I'm not sure what the differences between dry aged etc is. I don't mind eating in a steakhouse so long as the sides are tasty - we both had a fabulous meal in Smith & Wollenskis in Boston last year. He also likes fish and most cuisines although he's not a big fan of Italian. We are BIG desert fans - him chocolate, me Creme Brulee or something fruit based so any suggestions for someplace for a good dessert would be great - either at lunch time, with dinner or someplace else after dinner / theatre. I have done a little research and am a little overwhelmed. ANY suggestions are much appreciated! Thanks for your help! Fri Nov 02 17:02:59 -0700 2007 48033 OnlyMe 1 3090778 I suggest a little give and take. He likes steak. So one night, go to a steakhouse. There are plenty of good ones. You can see a discussion of them, including links to their websites, in the topic at www.chowhound.com/topics/359377 Most steakhouses have some sides of vegetables - creamed spinach in particular - but you may want to look through the menus on their websites, to see which one(s) might be particularly good for your veggie needs. You're a strict vegetarian. So another night, go to Green Zebra. It is one of three restaurants in Chicago run by acclaimed chef Shawn McClain. Almost all of their menu is vegetarian, with maybe a chicken dish, but it's really excellent cuisine, and even hubbie will probably like it. www.greenzebrachicago.com Last weekend I had not-so-strict vegetarians visiting from out of town, and wanted to show off our best food. We had dinner at North Pond and they loved it! North Pond has wonderful contemporary American food (the chef is Bruce Sherman) and specializes in local fresh ingredients. They always have a few vegetarian options on the menu. The setting is also exquisite; it's right in Lincoln Park (the park itself, not the neighborhood) facing the pond, and the city skyline towers over the opposite end of the pond. The building used to be the place that services skaters on the pond in winter. www.northpondrestaurant.com For our other meals, we had Chicago-style deep-dish pizza (maybe not an option for you, since you don't eat cheese), and we went up to Devon Avenue. The stretch between Western Avenue (2400 W) and Sacramento (3000 W) is full of Indian and Pakistani restaurants, all of which have many vegetarian options and some of which (e.g. Mysore Woodlands) are strict vegetarian. A couple more suggestions. When you go to the LaSalle Bank Theater, you might want to eat before/after at Atwood Cafe. It's very close by the theater, and specializes in "American comfort foods". Very good, and open for breakfast/lunch/dinner. Also open late so you can do an after-theater dessert there. You can take a look at their menu on their website at www.atwoodcafe.com One other place you might consider for your dessert cravings - there's a place called Hot Chocolate in Wicker Park (a short cab ride away, about 3 miles) that specializes in desserts (is owned/run by pastry chef Mindy Segal) and also has some savory dishes. www.hotchocolatechicago.com Oh, and for carry-out foods, including some awesome desserts, here are two more recommendations. Fox and Obel is a wonderful gourmet grocery store with the best of just about everything (they also have a cafe in the rear where you can order meals to eat there). Walking distance from your hotel. www.fox-obel.com And if you enjoy French pastries, you can get excellent ones at Vanille Patisserie, which is about 4 miles or so from your hotel. www.vanillepatisserie.com Don't feel overwhelmed - just have fun! Keep in mind that Chicago is a huge city with great food, and there are way more options than you can ever take advantage of. (The same is true even for long-time residents here; most of us have a list of restaurants we've been wanting to try, but haven't yet had a chance to.) Just pick a few places and enjoy yourselves during your stay! Fri Nov 02 17:51:38 -0700 2007 3090689 55363 nsxtasy 2 3091466 I have to disagree with the advice about going to a steakhouse, unless you want to eat a side platter of spinach or broccoli as your entree. Most steakhouses offer very little to anyone not there for a big hunk of meat. North Pond is a good example of the kind of place where you could have a vegetarian meal and he beef and yours won't be an afterthought. Perhaps a better one is Kevin, which was explicitly conceived as a place that was half steakhouse, half fine dining, and thus able to satisfy mixed parties such as yours. Sat Nov 03 06:15:09 -0700 2007 3090778 54699 Morton Arthur Eaton 3 3093318 One more country heard from. Steakhouses often have wonderful baked potatoes and great sides that can be shared with the meat-eater with whom you are dining. I think steakhouses are pefect places for vegetarians. Sun Nov 04 04:54:53 -0800 2007 3091466 24468 chicgail 4 3100065 I REALLY hope you're being sarcastic. As a vegetarian and the the sister/daughter of vegans, there is NO way in hell my parents or I would want to go anywhere near a steakhouse. A baked potato and a mediocre salad is not what we'd describe as a dining experience. I think it's insulting to vegetarians and vegans that anyone would think a steakhouse is an acceptable choice for dining. Tue Nov 06 10:08:40 -0800 2007 3093318 39976 sunnyday1375 5 3100121 the OP stated her husband wanted a steak, and she was ok going to a steakhouse as a compromise so her husband could get a great steak(something they do not have access accoriding to the OP in Ireland) for one of the meals. The OP was not "insulted" by going to a steakhouse, perhaps they are just a little more open minded regarding the issue. Compromise... part of a good marriage. As for your take on what steakhouses offer in regards to salads, etc. You are way off. The top notch steak houses in Chicago, do not offer "mediocre" salads. Tue Nov 06 10:22:39 -0800 2007 3100065 26725 swsidejim 6 3100361 Gail said that steakhouses are the perfect place for vegetarians. Perfect being the key word. Chicago Diner? Blind Faith? Handlebar? Those are perfect places for vegetarians. Most vegetarians wouldn't go anywhere near a steakhouse. Tue Nov 06 11:15:06 -0800 2007 3100121 39976 sunnyday1375 7 3100405 once again the OP has a husband who wants a top notch steak for one meal. The places you list will not fit that request. Save those places for the other nights of the visit. Compromise is the key word. Tue Nov 06 11:25:53 -0800 2007 3100361 26725 swsidejim 7 3100538 > Most vegetarians wouldn't go anywhere near a steakhouse. Probably true, *if* they are eating by themselves or with other vegetarians. However, the OP is married to a steak-lover, and one of the things she explicitly asked about is recommendations for a good steak. Let's provide the advice the OP is looking for. What might a vegetarian eat at a steakhouse? Here are some of the non-meat dishes shown on the menus of websites for a few of the steakhouses around town: Gibson's ( http://www.gibsonssteakhouse.com ): Caesar Salad Tomato and Sweet Onion Salad Chopped Garbage Salad Double Baked Potato Baked Potato Baked Sweet Potato Mashed Potatoes French Fries Vegetable Combination Sautéed Spinach and Mushrooms with Garlic Sautéed Spinach and Broccoli with Olive Oil and Garlic Creamed Spinach Broccoli Asparagus with Hollandaise Sauce Mushrooms Morton's ( www.mortons.com ): Center Cut Iceberg Caesar Salad Morton's Salad Sliced Beefsteak Tomato, Purple Onion, Vinaigrette or Blue Cheese Chopped Salad Steamed Fresh Jumbo Asparagus, Sauce Hollandaise Grilled Jumbo Asparagus, Balsamic Glaze Steamed Fresh Broccoli, Sauce Hollandaise Creamed Spinach Sauteed Fresh Spinach & Mushrooms Jumbo Baked Idaho Potato Hashbrown Potato Lyonnaise Potatoes Mashed Potatoes Potato Skins French Fries Sauteed Wild Mushrooms Sauteed Mushrooms Sauteed Onions Saloon ( www.saloonsteakhouse.com ): Saloon Salad - A Blend of Iceberg, Romaine, Frisee, Arugula & Watercress Tomato, Mozzarella and Basil - Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Basil Oil, Balsamic Syrup & Fresh Basil Classic Caesar -- Hearts of Romaine, Parmesan and Croutons Deluxe Wedge Salad - 1/4 Head of Iceberg Lettuce, Bacon (could be omitted) Blue Cheese, Tomato & Chive Yukon Gold Mashed Potatoes - Bacon (could be omitted), Scallion and Creme Fraiche Au Gratin Potatoes - Pepper Jack Cheese Colossal Baked Potato - Sour Cream, Bacon (could be omitted) and Chives Cauliflower Gratin - Gratineed Cream Sauce Creamed Spinach - Classic Florentine Sauteed Spinach - Sauteed with Garlic and Butter Sauteed Mushroom Medley - Garlic Butter and Fresh Herbs Green Beans - Diced Tomato, Blanched Garlic Steamed Broccoli - Classic Hollandaise French Fries - Garlic & Parsley Wildfire ( www.wildfirerestaurant.com ): House Salad Bowl - Mixed greens, hearts of palm, carrots, eggs, tomatoes, cucumbers, croutons; creamy ranch, 1000 island, house vinaigrette, or blue cheese dressing Goat Cheese and Field Greens Salad - Wood roasted vegetables, balsamic vinaigrette Chopped Tomato and Red Onion Salad - Blue cheese dressing, crumbled blue cheese, and chopped lettuce Caesar Salad - Crisp Romaine lettuce, parmesan cheese, and garlic croutons Spinach Salad - Baby spinach, bacon (could be omitted), mushrooms, radishes, chopped eggs, warm mustard dressing Wildfire Chopped Salad - Mixed greens, roasted chicken (could be omitted), avocado, tomatoes, blue cheese, bacon (could be omitted), scallions, corn, tortilla strips; tossed with citrus vinaigrette Wildfire Creamed Spinach Wood Roasted Mushroom Caps Steamed Broccoli with Herb Butter Wildfire Wild Rice Redskin Mashed Potatoes Giant Baked Potato BBQ Rubbed Sweet Potato White Cheddar Au Gratin Potatoes Cheddar Double Stuffed Potato David Burke's Primehouse ( www.davidburke.com/primehouse.html , menu at http://chicago.menupages.com/screenmenu.asp?restaurantId=29584 ): Caesar Classic, Tableside Beet & Goat Cheese Napoleon Red, Gold, Striped Beets, Pistachio Crusted Chevre, Green Apple, Black Fig Vinaigrette The Wedge Romaine, Tomatoes, Red Onion, Blue Cheese, Watercress Tomato Vinaigrette Organic mixed Organic Mixed Baby Greens, Grape Tomatoes Fresh Herbs, Mustard Vinaigrette Tomato Mozzarella Bufala Mozzarella, Tomato, Onion, Watercress, 207L Vinaigrette Creamed Spinach Garlic Leaf Spinach Broccoli & Cheddar Idaho Tempura Green Beans Asparagus and Shallots Pan Roasted Mushrooms Vegetable of The Day Old School Hash Browns Basil Whipped Potato Tempura Onion Rings Tue Nov 06 11:53:59 -0800 2007 3100361 55363 nsxtasy 1 3091090 Well there is a Smith and Wollensky in Chicago, but it seems a waste to go there if you have already been. My wife and I are full fledged carnivores, but we do have a strict Vegetarian friend, although he will eat cheese and has branched out to fish recently. We go out quite frequently and had the best recent success at May Steet Market (on Grand Ave.). Unlike most places that have only one vegetarian entree, they always have two, along with a good selection of appetizers, soups, and salads. And of course, plenty of meat. Its a shame that you don't eat cheese since they have an excellent blue cheese cheese cake appetizer, but there are plenty of options. Another possibility is Thai food. There are some excellent Thai restaurants in Chicago, in fact its one of our little known specialties. Only drawback is that the best ones are a little outiside of the downtown area. I would recommend Spoon Thai. A huge menu with plenty of options. It would be a pricey cab ride, but you can also get there by taking the brown line (of the "El" subway system) to the Western Ave stop and walking south half a block. Note that it is BYO, so pick up a bottle or two of wine if you want to drink with the meal. Plenty of outstanding Mexican around, but you might be hard pressed to find a vegetarian entree that is not smothered in or filled with cheese, so those are out. There are some good Indian restaurants. The best IMO in the downtown area is India House (59 West Grand). Plenty of Veggie options there. Also many options up on Devon, although its kind of a hike. I'm not a huge steak house fan, but the three that seem to get the best press are Dave Burke's, Saloon, and Keefers. You might want to dig through those menus and see if there is anything you can eat. Good luck. http://www.maystreetmarket.com/ http://www.spoonthai.com/ http://www.davidburke.com/contact.html http://www.saloonsteakhouse.com/ http://keefersrestaurant.com/index.html Fri Nov 02 20:54:54 -0700 2007 3090689 38577 wak 1 3091517 Thank you all so much for taking the time to offer suggestions - they are all VERY MUCH appreciated! nsxtasy, Hot Chocolate is just the kind of place we're looking for - Just reading that Dessert Menu is making my mouth water! The Altawood Cafe looks pretty good too AND they do Ceeme Brulee - probably the best option for our pre-theatre dinner like you said. I had seen the Green Zebra previously and while the menu is GREAT for me, Hubby would be quite limited as he's not in the slightest 'veggie inclined' and at the moment there's just one fish dish on there. North Pond on the other hand looks great for hubby but not so good for me as everything seems to contain cheese and sometimes 'leaving out the cheese' just doesn't work :-( . Now I konw Deep Dish Pizzas are an institution in Chicago and I'm almost embarassed to say but hubby is a 'thin crust' kind of guy so Pizzas are probably not the way to go for us. Fox and Obel looks YUMMY and if we don't go there for Dinner we will definately go for lunch - do you know what the Cafe is like? Is it somewhere you could sit over dinner (can you get wine?) or is it an 'in and out' kind of place? Vinelle's pastries look spectacular too!!! Is it just takeout or would we be able to rest our weray feet there too?? Morton Arthur Eaton, Ideally we'll be ablt to find someplace that is a compromise and suits both hubby and I but I have found that, even in a steakhouse, as long as the sides are 'good' and there is a sellection of them, I'm a pretty happy camper for one night at least - (those creamed potatoes in Smith & Wollenskis were to absolutely die for). Sometimes we find 'bar type' places that offer steaks, burgers, pasta, faijitas etc - there was one great one in NYC which fit both our needs but I'm not sure if there are places like this in Chicago??? Wak, I think that Keefers looks the best for me for the sides. I really like the look of Spoon Thai's menu too! How long do you think it would take to get there by EL? Is it relatively straight forward? We are pretty big Indian fans and the menu for India House is definately perfect for both of us. We also like mexican and can sometimes find places that don't overload on the cheese and my one exception to the rule of 'sometimes it just doesn't work leaving out the cheese' is faijitas - so any recs there would be great too. Again, thank you all for your suggestions. I know I am pretty fussy and the cheese issue really makes life difficult but I think it's better being prepared before going - we definately don't want to spend hours walking around trying to find someplace in the cold so I hope no-one minds me saying that some of the places aren't suitable for us. Thanks again for your patience!. PS, I found this place - does anyone have any opinions? http://www.opera-chicago.com/sitenavV02.aspx?CompanyID=8259&MenuID=3097 - I like the fact that it has two different menus and am I right in thinking that it's not 'too' far away? Sat Nov 03 07:11:07 -0700 2007 3090689 48033 OnlyMe 2 3091650 I don't take the El much these days, but I'd guess that the Brown line from the loop to Western is 30-45 min one way. There is some outstanding Mexican food in Chicago, but meat and cheese are so integral to the menus that I can't think of anywhere that would really fit the bill. One place I did not mention is Kan Zaman - nice Middle Eastern restaurant on Wells St. They have an excellent Veggie platter that I have had several times. No web site, but their menu is attached below. I'm no fan of Opera. They same people who run Opera also own the very cool, if somewhat overpriced Red Light which is Pan Asian. In fact they have a separate vegetarian menu on their web site. The food is very good, the decor is really something to see and its always an interesting crowd. http://chicago.menupages.com/restaurantdetails.asp?areaid=0&restaurantid=10924&neighborhoodid=0&cuisineid=44&home=Y http://www.redlight-chicago.com/ Sat Nov 03 08:24:35 -0700 2007 3091517 38577 wak 3 3091798 Authentic Mexican is basically guaranteed to use lard-- and just so you know, authentic Thai will use fish sauce. To get vegetarian you have to go to places which are far enough from authenticity that I'd be hard pressed to recommend them (although Frontera and some of those upscale Mexican places MIGHT accommodate vegetarians, I don't know). Spoon is quite good, though, and the Lincoln Square strip is charming and rarely discovered by visitors. (Ask for the secret menu at Spoon; they'll happily give you an English copy.) Here's a vegetarian option where they just had a dinner at another site that looked interesting, fwiw: http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=15525 Sat Nov 03 09:43:37 -0700 2007 3091650 54699 Morton Arthur Eaton 2 3091836 I'll try to answer the questions that weren't already answered... The cafe in the rear of Fox and Obel has very much a "coffeehouse atmosphere", like Starbucks. You can certainly eat and linger - they have a rack of the day's newspapers, which is a sign that it's permissible, definitely not your "in and out", eat and leave kind of place - although at very busy times (e.g. noon) if there are a lot of people waiting, you might not want to linger. I don't think they serve wine (i.e. by the glass) at the cafe - I could be wrong about that - but I bet if you buy a bottle of wine in the store, they'll be happy to give you glasses and open it for you so you can drink it in the cafe with your meal. Most of Vanille's business is carry-out but they have one or two TINY tables there with a couple of seats, so if you want to eat your pastries there, you can. I think they serve coffee too. Like the others posting, I'm not sure whether Mexican would be an apt fit for your vegetarian needs. Maybe you'd like to take a look at the menus on their websites? The best ones reasonably close to your hotel include Frontera Grill/Topolobampo (Topo accepts reservations in advance, Frontera doesn't except for a handful of same-day ones first thing in the morning - www.rickbayless.com/restaurants ), Salpicon ( www.salpicon.com ), and Adobo Grill (Old Town location is closer than Wicker Park - www.adobogrill.com ). Opera has gotten mixed reviews; some people like it, others don't. Yes, it's not too far away; depending on which hotel you end up at, it's 1.5-2.0 miles south of your hotel. Your hotels are in the River North / Michigan Avenue areas, just north of the Loop (downtown Chicago's older commercial district, with lots of office buildings); Opera is a bit over a mile south of the Loop. It's a short cab ride, or you can take the el's Red Line to Roosevelt/State, or various bus lines ( www.transitchicago.com ). One other note - another Thai place similar to Spoon Thai is TAC Quick. (I like TAC Quick slightly better.) It's located right at the Sheridan Road stop on the el's Red Line; travel time is a bit less, maybe 25-35 minutes to TAC Quick, vs the 30-45 wak mentioned for Spoon Thai. Sat Nov 03 10:04:56 -0700 2007 3091517 55363 nsxtasy 2 3122202 One caution with Keefer's is that chef John Hogan loves bacon and pancetta and slides it into just about everything. My sister and mom, both veggies that come with us to steakhouses all the time, accidently ate pancetta that was hidden in the most delicious potato croquettes. Otherwise kudos to you for being a reasonable vegetarian that can find something to eat just about everywhere. One place that we go often for dinner and don't even eat steak is Wildfire. One of my favorite meals is the Widlfire Chopped salad (the dressing is great) and a bbq rubbed sweet baked potato. That and the bread is a great meal and I love a juicy medium-rare strip. Enjoy! Tue Nov 13 14:51:46 -0800 2007 3091517 92421 jbontario 3 3125630 Thanks for the heads up on Keefers jbontario - although I'm fairly reasonable going to a steakhouse I'm afraid I would NOT be reasonable if there were ANY trace of meat in whta was said to be veggie!!!! This has happened to me on a few occasions and I have been far from a happy camper - in fact, after being sick (yup, meat has that effect on me), I tend to avoid as much risk of it happening again as I can sooo.... if Keefers didn't even think to advise that there was meat was in the potato croquettes I hate to think about the lack of care they "may" have keeping veggie items separate from meat ones :-( ... think I might be better off being safe than sorry and skip Keefers..... But every cloud has a silver lining .... Wildfire looks like a place that just 'might' be inclined to put together a veggie dish without cheese with a little notice (seeing as they have a couple of 'veggie'+cheese dishes on their menu anyways - think I might e-mail them to see. Thanks again for your help Wed Nov 14 14:32:06 -0800 2007 3122202 48033 OnlyMe 1 3100141 My top 3 steakhouse favorites(and I have been to pretty much all the top ones in the city) in Chicago are: #1 Saloon Steakhouse #2 Joe's Seafood, Prime Steaks, and Stone Crabs - if someone has not tried or loves fresh in season stone crab claws this would be my top rec. #3 Mortons Steakhouse - a Chicago classic A place that is on the top of my list to try is David Burke's Prime House( I am going in a couple of weeks). I have heard great things about their dry-aged beef. I think it is great you are going to compromise for the one meal to let your husband get a great steak in town. You will have plenty of other meals to get food that is more geared towards your dietary restrictions. Enjoy your visit to Chicago Tue Nov 06 10:28:00 -0800 2007 3090689 26725 swsidejim 1 3121952 Hi all, Sorry I kind of 'abandoned' the post - I have been away and am crazy with work comittments right now but not usually one to 'post and run' I'm just popping back in to say that, even though I haven't had a chance to properly go through everyones suggestions, I want to say Thanks Everyone!!!...and once this weekend is over I'll have more time to browse and post.... I see there has been a bit of a discussion going on since I posted re steakhouses - while these aren't something I would chose to go to if I were with other veggie friends, hubby DOES love his steak and as you can't get 'proper' steaks (debatable I know) in Ireland it's his opportunity to indulge and so long as I don't end up with a plate of lettuce I'm OK with that as I LOVE LOVE LOVE those amazing creamed potatoes you can get in the US (can't get them half as good here in Ireland either :-( ) ... so really, I'm fine with some good 'sides' and a good desert + wine for one night..... it must be Lurve ;-) !! Anyways, thanks everyone for your comments - I will definately be back with some more questions once things have calmed down a little for me workwise. Only Tue Nov 13 13:44:27 -0800 2007 3090689 48033 OnlyMe 1 3134130 Hi, I thought I posted before, but I don't see the post. First, for clarification, in the US, a strict vegetarian eats no animal products at all, so you are a lacto-ovo vegetarian in the States. I thought I'd better mention that because it might confuse people. A wonderful restaurant where I've eaten with meat eaters is Tallgrass on 1006 S State St in Lockport. It isn't in the area of your hotel, but it isn't difficult to reach by car. They have fabulous vegetarian food, plus some with dairy for you, and I've been told by meat eaters that the seafood is excellent. I don't know about their desserts, but I can't imagine they'd be any less delicious than their other dishes! Sat Nov 17 12:40:45 -0800 2007 3090689 143593 kittielover 2 3134223 I can vouch for Tallgrass. Oh, can I! I ate there earlier this year, and everything was superb; it was the best meal I've eaten in 2007. That's quite a compliment, in a year when I've eaten at some of the very best restaurants around, including Avenues, Vie, Le Bernardin, one sixtyblue, Oceanique, and North Pond. You can read a detailed report on my dinner there in the topic at www.chowhound.com/topics/403032 However, it's worth noting that Tallgrass is in Lockport, about forty miles southwest of Chicago. So it's indeed geographically inconvenient. And there is always the possibility that advance plans to drive a long distance to a restaurant in January turn out to be thwarted by a winter storm. Sat Nov 17 13:27:48 -0800 2007 3134130 55363 nsxtasy 3 3135855 Hi kitelover & nsxtasy, kitelover, I used to use the term lacto-ovo vegetarian to describe myself but this lead to confusion as I do not eat cheese and technically lacto-ovo vegetarians eat all dairy products and don't differentiate between those containing animal by products such as rennet which hardens cheeses and comes from 'deceased' animals, thus, I'm a little 'stricter' than lacto-ovo but not as strict as vegan and that's where I have most of my difficulties in that most vegetarian offerings contain some sort of cheese be it parmesan or pesto. Anyways, I'm not trying to be pedantic, just trying to explain why I don't use the term and there doesn't really seem to be a definitive term for my 'taste'. I appreciate your recommendation for Tallgrass and nxstazy, you seem to have had an absolutely wonderful time there, however, we won't have a car in Chicago and with our time there being quite limited I don't think we can realistically make it there - I think it will have to be experienced on another visit .... which gives me another reason to return to Chicago :-) Thanks again for taking the time to give me advice! Only Sun Nov 18 09:32:27 -0800 2007 3134223 48033 OnlyMe