455512 Tue Oct 30 08:59:32 -0700 2007 10 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 3079539 It all started because of the steam tables in Jackson Heights. There's a little block way out in Queens, New York that looks like a street in Bombay. A lot of Indian families come there to shop, stroll and socialize, and while they're there, they eat. Many restaurants on that block, and all of them prepare the curries that morning or the day before and let them sit on trays in a steam table. When you order, they dish out your food and zap it in a microwave.One evening I found a place that prepared a lamb curry to order. I tried it, it was wonderful, I wrote an ecstatic report. No no no, came the replies. A good curry should be simmered for hours, and then left to sit overnight to bring out all the flavor. If it's made to order it can't be good. I noticed the same thing happen in Dominican and Cuban restaurants whose specialty is slow-cooked stews. The stuff from their steam tables is awesome but when made to order, the food is lacking. And then I got to thinking, all restaurants face that problem. I read about one elegant restaurant that offered an entree of braised short ribs that took two days to make. But when you order it, the waiter does not, as far as I know, say, "Excellent choice. I'll have your food out in 48 hours. Would you care for a drink while you are waiting?" I've always thought that food made to order is best. But maybe it's not. I've always assumed that a top restaurant will prepare your food to order. But maybe there's a steam table hidden in back, and they dish up your food, plate it elegantly, and serve it to you. Tue Oct 30 08:59:32 -0700 2007 11362 Brian S 1 3079565 It really depends of the food item. Not all food items can be prepared to order, as with your example of the the short ribs. When you roast a chicken at home for dinner, you are making it "to order" (your dinner), but that doesn't mean your start it 10 minutes before you want to eat. Same goes for restaurants. What's most common in restaurants is finishing to order. Your steak is cooked when you order is, but the mashed potates are held in a warming container and plated at the last minute. The whole thing might be served with a sauce that was made earlier in the day, held warm, and added to the plate as it goes out. Tue Oct 30 09:06:20 -0700 2007 3079539 74556 manraysky 1 3079680 Do you cook? How long does it take you to get flavorful meal on the table? The prep for even simple things must often start hours in advance. Tue Oct 30 09:37:12 -0700 2007 3079539 32444 MakingSense 2 3079711 Certainly, it just depends upon what the food is. Chinese food is often prepared very rapidly, but from ingredients that may have been chopped or marinated well in advance. On the other hand, how do you roast a turkey, for example, while the customer waits? Tue Oct 30 09:45:53 -0700 2007 3079680 54222 ekammin 3 3079767 Like manraysky said, mny dishes are cooked to a point in advance and then finished to order. This is the only logical way for a restaurant with any turnover to serve high-quality food in a timely manner. Certainly some quicker dishes like sautees of fish and meats can be made completely to order, but not everything. Tue Oct 30 09:57:00 -0700 2007 3079711 69116 notgreg 1 3079885 Totally depends on the food. For things like chili, many stews, curries, some pasta sauces and so on, they only seem to improve overnight whether it's a slow simmer or sitting in the fridge and then being reheated. Some foods just can't handle that treatment, though. Most seafood, steaks, stir fries, etc have to be made to order for the right flavor balance and texture and temperature. Other things have a window in which they're at their best but it can't be done to order...like braises or fricassees. For those kinds of dishes, restaurants have to make them in advance and hold them properly to achieve the texture they want in the dish. Other things are fabulous made to order but can be quite good made ahead, depending on technique. Here in San Francisco, the roast chicken at Zuni Cafe is made to order (with a note on the menu saying it will take an hour) and in my opinion is the best I've had. A whole roast chicken can't be held well at temperature for very long and reheating it almost invariably changes the texture and moisture levels. Tue Oct 30 10:27:22 -0700 2007 3079539 80141 ccbweb 2 3079902 I agree, apart from braises freshly roasted/seared/steamed meats don't hold well unless you have some pretty good equipment backing you up. Tue Oct 30 10:32:06 -0700 2007 3079885 10980 Blueicus 2 3080841 Hey, even that Zuni chicken has to be started a couple of days in advance. It's just finished by roasting it in the oven for that last hour. You couldn't start the process when someone orders it. Even dishes that are done to order often require the use of stocks to deglaze pans or sauces which are made from ingredients that take time to prepare which are made well in advance. Tue Oct 30 15:06:45 -0700 2007 3079885 32444 MakingSense 1 3081376 I think it is becoming very apparent that many restaurants recently prepare too much ahead of time. We have been more and more disappointed in restaurant food in the past few years for this very reason. It is easiest to distinguish at a lunch table (was this prepared yesterday?!?) or on a Sunday. Never mind those Sunday brunch places. . . never. But my biggest gripe is a simple neighborhood family-style restaurant where you might have veal parmigiana, and the veal is like dry leather and was obviously cooked earlier in the day. Ugh. Our favorite local corner restaurant just started doing this when it switched owners. I could tell immediately, and now a 30-year-old Friday night habit is crossed off my list. Another nasty advance prep menu item: ice-cold, wilted, pre-mixed Caesar salad for $8.00 and up. How do they get away with it? Tue Oct 30 18:30:57 -0700 2007 3079539 134784 piecrust 2 3083622 I've noticed the same thing. I've also, since becoming a more educated "chowhound," stopped frequenting ridiculous chain restaurants because they often use corporate "mixes" or preprepared ingredient sets. Like the time I tried to order an omelet (I forget the restaurant) with a substituted cheese, and the waitress informed me that it was all already mixed together in a glutinous mess. I could see using these techniques in some situations, but at the time it was discouraging. Wed Oct 31 12:46:58 -0700 2007 3081376 137835 mambaker 1 3083580 I'll throw this monkey wrench into the works: If you order an item in an Indian restaurant and they have a buffet going on with that item included, what do you get? One of my favorite all-time dishes is Dahi Vada served at a particular place not far from where I live. If you grab it yourself from the buffet, you get a lentil cake in yogurt sauce. If you order it, it comes with three different sauces - yogurt, tamarind, and green chili pepper. Many restaurants, including Indian, will 'finish' a dish that has already been prepared. Squeezes of lemon, seeds, fresh herbs, a final basting, and other finishes are all strategies that kitchens use to add an extra dimension of flavor and freshness to what you are served. Wed Oct 31 12:34:32 -0700 2007 3079539 10156 Steve