45450 Tue Apr 25 04:41:01 -0700 2006 17 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 224819 Monday afternoon I stopped by the Minnesota location of The Bargain Bank to check out the wine sale. The crowds had disappeared by that point and I could browse leisurely. I asked about the provenance of the wines, as the emailed announcement stated, "ALL THE WINE HAS BEEN TASTED AND INSPECTED BY MASTER SOMMELIERS. WE ARE CONFIDENT OF THE EXCELLENT CHARACTER OF ALL OUR WINES. WE CAN NOT ACCEPT ANY OPEN BOTTLES OF WINE FOR CREDIT." I did not have a chance to speak with the owner, but his two friends who were helping manage the sale filled me in on what they knew. The wines came from flooded restaurants in Louisiana and were purchased from the Oakland warehouse of a broker. I asked who the Master Sommeliers were who inspected and tasted the wines and also what their sampling protocol was, e.g., pulling one bottle from X number of cases on the outside of random pallets. They could not name the Master Sommeliers who tasted and inspected the wine. One of them said that he had visited the Oakland warehouse himself to visually inspect the wines. He said that the initial two lots he saw were from Emeril's and Delmonico's. He said that Delmonico's wines didn't look good and he didn't accept them. He said that a retailer in the DC area bought the Emeril's wines for $500,000 cash. I replied, "So you're saying these are from OTHER restaurants besides Emeril's and Delmonico's?" He nodded and then said that the sale had attracted many retailers and "guys who are real wine geeks and know about this stuff". I told him that was irrelevant to me. I asked if any samples had been pulled for tasting, and the two said some wines had been tasted but could not provide any details. Then they asked me if I was a lawyer! I informed them that I'm not an attorney but was trying to make a decision over what the condition of the wine might be and what kind of inspection and taste testing had been done. They could not answer any questions about how long the wines were in uncontrolled conditions in Louisiana, when the wines were transported to Oakland, the temperature conditions of transport, or the conditions at the broker's warehouse. I related all the above because this is a buyer beware situation. From strictly a physical inspection, the bottles look very good for the most part. A few older bottles have some water marks, mud, or mold, but most are pristine with no corks pushed or leaking. While those are positives, it is still possible for the wines to be "cooked" without any external evidence. Prices seem to be about 20-60% below regualar retail value. My approach was to stick with the things that were discounted heavily for drinking over the next couple months and not plan to cellar them. Ports and Madeiras were the exception as these wines are sturdy and can handle some abuse. Plus the prices were so low on these fortified wines, I felt it was worth the chance. I opened three bottles tonight to do my own sampling to check for possible heat damage. I chose one young white wine, one older Bordeaux, and one younger Port as wines that would have different levels of susceptability to heat damage. I was looking for prematurely aged color, nutty oxidation, grainy textures, stewed/baked or dried-out fruit character, rubbery aromas, lack of freshness, disintegration, and/or shortening of finish. Surprisingly, all three wines passed with flying colors and were in fine shape. Here are my impressions: 2004 "J" Winery Pinot Gris Russian River Valley ($8.60, reg. $19) - Medium straw color with bronze tint, very sweet and overripe nose of mango, cantaloup and ripe apples, sweeter than off-dry with lush mouthfeel, and somewhat cloying fat finish. GOOD plus 1996 Ch. Prieure-Lichine Margaux ($24.60, reg. $45) - Very dark healthy color with slight clearing at the rime, initial funky nose cleans up with aeration to show dried herbs, black currant, leathery brett, cedar, and oolong tea, lively acidity with some hard tannins yet to resolve, opens up to reveal cigar box, spice and cassis on the palate, well-integrated and powerful, medium-long finish, somewhat bitter tannic aftertaste. EXCELLENT minus 2000 Broadbent Vintage Port ($21.70, reg. $50) - Young vibrant color of opaque purple-black, seems almost unmoved since last tasted three years ago, spirits still showing but is a bit more integrated than on release, medium-heavy body, not a powerhouse but beautifully balanced with medium sweetness, intense fruit and ripe velvety tannins, very long. EXCELLENT For the risk-averse bargain seeker, other fortified wine prices included: Fonseca 20-year-old Tawny Port, $15 Broadbent Terrantez Madeira, $39 Broadbent 5 y.o. Reserve Madeira, $10 1992 Quinta do Vesuvio Vintage Porto, $16 1994 Ferreira Vintage Porto, $31.50 1994 Smith Woodhouse Vintage Porto, $24 1997 Quinta do Noval "Silval" Vintage Porto, $25 Madeira wines actually improve with heat and are generally considered indestructable, so those are the safest bet. Disclaimer: Bartholomew Broadbent is a friend. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/45393#224801 Tue Apr 25 04:41:01 -0700 2006 0 Melanie Wong 1 224886 I went to the Clement St store and they had several wines on discount too. There were quite a few Burgundies but few Bordeaux. I was intrigued by the lone bottle of 1998 Michel Gros Vosne-Romanee "Les Brulees" for $35 +/-. Deal or no deal? There were also half-bottles of 2001 Ch Guiraud Sauternes and 2002 Merry Edwards Pinot Noir for $18 each. Tue Apr 25 14:52:01 -0700 2006 224819 0 Walter Kurtz 2 225005 Interesting, not much Burgundy of interest at Minnesota. I did think about buying the Michel Gross Brulees though, as I like the producer and cru, and that vintage is turning out better than the critics predicted initially. You can use winesearcher.com to check for prices, in this case about $80 retail. Whether it's a deal or not depends on if it's in good condition, which is a big "IF" with an 8-year old Pinot Noir. If I had seen halves of 2001 Guiraud, I probably would have taken a chance on it for that price. That's an excellent vintage for Sauternes. I did give in and bought a half bottle of 2002 Faiveley Nuits-St-Georges for $10, half bottle of 2002 Henri Gouges NSG 1er cru Pruliers for $19, half bottle of 2002 Saintsbury Carnerons Pinot Noir for $6.50. With their youth, I figured these might weather some abuse better. We'll see. Link: http://www.wine-searcher.com/wine-select.lml Image: http://www.ranchocellars.com/miva/graphics/00000001/104711.jpg Tue Apr 25 22:46:43 -0700 2006 224886 0 Melanie Wong 3 225194 I went there and bought the 2002 Faiveley Nuits-St-Georges too. Some others I picked up were: 2002 Williams-Selyems PN (Weir Vn) $36.75 2003 Martinelli G&L Zin 1/2 bottle $12.60 1999 Quintessa 1/2 btl $26.60 2002 Araujo Altagracia $39.60 All of these btls are in very good condition (on the outside). Let's see how they are inside. Wed Apr 26 21:29:50 -0700 2006 225005 0 Walter Kurtz 4 225228 Ok then, you can go first on the Faiveley and tell us how it fares! Wed Apr 26 23:37:39 -0700 2006 225194 0 Melanie Wong 5 225318 I opened the Martinelli Zin first and it's extremely fruit forward and may not be to everyone's tastes. It's almost Port-like and a bit one-dimensional, but not bad. However, there are no ill effects that were noticeable with regards to storage and origin. Thu Apr 27 14:21:30 -0700 2006 225228 0 Walter Kurtz 6 225402 Thanks for adding another datapoint. Yep, that's the Guiseppe & Louisa, made from the younger vines. I'll mention that I also bought some Rieslings for immediate drinking. Over the last few years, I've had a chance to drink 71, 75 & 76 German Rieslings that a friend drove out here from in a move from Wisconsin in the heat of summer. Nearly all of them leaked and many pushed the corks, but more than 10 years later, the wines are as good as any of those vintages I've tried of other provenance. Thu Apr 27 22:45:38 -0700 2006 225318 0 Melanie Wong 5 226379 OK, so I went to Old Mandarin and brought the 2002 Faiveley Nuits-St-Georges. It may not have been the perfect choice for spicy Chinese food, but I had some before the food came and it tasted fine. No foul tastes due to bad storage conditions or heat damage. How did your 1/2 bottle taste? Thu May 04 15:01:31 -0700 2006 225228 0 Walter Kurtz 6 226439 Gosh, never occured to me to bring wine to Old Mandarin since it's a halal restaurant. Anyway, I haven't opened the Faiveley yet, but plan to this weekend with a bunch of other burgs some friends have assembled. I only bought one, so that'll be it. I was in the Polk St. store yesterday and there were no more bottles of this. Thu May 04 20:11:59 -0700 2006 226379 0 Melanie Wong 1 224964 many thanks for the sleuthing. i inspected many of the bottles, and none exhibited any signs of actual immersion, particularly in katrina water. a few bottles, however, definitely looked like 'leakers'. the worst lot was the cantemerle ('95, iirc). ironically, i have personally had problems before with a case of cantemerle 2000 exhibiting leakage from the capsules. otherwise, i also found lots of good values, particularly if you're willing to take a chance on older bottles (but check for pushing, fill height, leakage, etc). Tue Apr 25 20:24:41 -0700 2006 224819 0 ed 1 225012 I bot a 1999 Joseph Swan Russian River Mancini Ranch Zinfandel for $14.00 (usual retail $20-$25) at the Polk Street store. The bottle looked very clean, virtually brand new. Tue Apr 25 23:28:46 -0700 2006 224819 0 DavidT 1 225060 Melanie, While you have gotten some of the details of the deals wrong I am glad you portrayed an accurate picture of where the wines came from and your completely unbiased evaluation. I was the one who asked if you were a lawyer (it was not "they") and I did so out of shear conversation, I could have easily guessed some other occupation. Are you surprised that there were wine geeks, self annointed wine snobs, wine professionals and just folks who like a great deal? Had you done some more sleuthing you could have found from which restaurants the inventory is from. We have been up front as to where the wines came from, the condition of storage as we could best ascertain from what we had direct knowledge of and what we were told and the condition that they are presently in, that they were tasted and evaluated by experts. As you know older, rarer wines traverse the globe, can change hands many times and the provenance is usually heresay. Also as another poster pointed out seepage is not the exclusive product of heat or bad storage. I am pleased that the wines you sampled were in "fine shape" and we can add that some wines were tasted by a Master Sommelier candidate. I wish you good luck on your qualifying and please stop by again, say hello and maybe we can taste together. Wed Apr 26 12:40:44 -0700 2006 224819 0 sfjeff 2 225094 Thank you, yes, when you spoke you told me as much as you could about the wines. I asked the questions I typed about conditions of storage and transport, and you were upfront in telling me that there was no answer. There are big gaps of the unknown in the provenance of the wines and it's important that people keep that in mind. Since the emailed announcement promoting the sale stated that Master Sommeliers have tasted the wines, it would have been useful to know their method of inspection, which wines they tried, and other details of their tasting evaluation which I inquired about. It would be helpful if you could provide further information in that regard, otherwise, "tasted and evaluated by experts" is just hype and completely meaningless, especially when the experts are not identified. Also, please take the opportunity to fill us in on the conditions of storage, the restaurants where the wines originated or you can email me and I'll post it here. I am not surprised at all that wine afficionados would be interested in the deals to be had. Perhaps I was too prickly in my reaction to the notion that I would be swayed by throngs of wine geeks in lieu of answers to my question. It is the chowhound philosophy afterall to cut through promotional fluff and rely on personal judgement. However, it does raise concern over bottles that will be resold at auction, in restaurants, and by retailers in the days ahead. I was suprised that the broker or insurance carrier that sold the wines to you did not mark out the labels as is often done with distressed merchandise. That's not something that is in your hands, but wine consumers need to watch out for this. I have purchased many wines from Bargain Bank over the years and have come out ahead on average. But the difference is that those past bottles all came with a guarantee that I could return the opened bottle if I was dissatisfied. That's not the case with the current sale and is one more reason to proceed with caution today. From a business perspective, I understand why you need to do that, but it gives me far less comfort as a buyer. BTW, I am not a Master Sommelier candidate and it would be incorrect to identify my opinions in that fashion. Link: http://www.bargainbank.com/locations.htm Wed Apr 26 15:35:26 -0700 2006 225060 0 Melanie Wong 3 225233 Melanie, Had you wanted to leave out the fluff you certainly could have omitted in you original post items about Emeril's and Delmonico's deals, which you got about 50% right anyway, and you have no access to those wines so that is irrelevant. That I inquired whether you are a lawyer is irrelevant too- it was just conversation. As to your question of who tasted the wines - I'm just a line cook here and cannot provide you with that information, sorry. As to transport and storage, I only know what I was told and it's heresay anyway. I did not witness the tasting in N.O. so I have no idea as to their methodology. For example, if they tasted wines in the center of a pallet or wines around the edges (which would presumably get hotter). I do know that in all the tastings the wines sampled included ones that were older, more fragile wines and were expected to show flaws. OK So we might have popped a Harlan too. I heard you say you were studying to be a Master Sommelier so if you are not a MS candidate my apologies, maybe you want to clear that up, although that's irrelevant too. From this board I think people know you have an educated palate whatever the case may be. We are interested in all y'alls feedback. We want to add a fun, positive note to the San Francisco food/wine scene, and give people a chance to try some items that they might not be able to otherwise and in the Bargain Bank philosophy give you a Bargain. Again, I reiterate my invitation to come down again and taste some wines (bring glasses.) Cheers Thu Apr 27 00:14:31 -0700 2006 225094 0 sfjeff 4 225688 I purchased a couple of cases from the BB and have this to report. The JC Cellars 2003 Zin (Isabel Cuvee) is delicious without problems. The 2003 Holdredge Pinot Noir is likewise. But the 2002 Chateauneuf de Pape Marquis Tonneage was fizzy and off putting despite the absence of any evidence of corking. Sadly I bought 4 of these at $20 each, and am afraid for the rest of them. If they are all bad, whatever savings I have on the others will be lost. Since the BB won't stand behind the drinkability of these wines, buyers are certainly gambling and should approach their purchases in that light. Sun Apr 30 13:24:57 -0700 2006 225233 0 Michael Singsen 4 225701 I purchased a couple of cases from the BB and have this to report. The JC Cellars 2003 Zin (Isabel Cuvee) is delicious without problems. The 2003 Holdredge Pinot Noir is likewise. But the 2002 Chateauneuf de Pape Marquis Tonneage was fizzy and off putting despite the absence of any evidence of corking. Sadly I bought 4 of these at $20 each, and am afraid for the rest of them. If they are all bad, whatever savings I have on the others will be lost. Since the BB won't stand behind the drinkability of these wines, buyers are certainly gambling and should approach their purchases in that light. Sun Apr 30 16:29:09 -0700 2006 225233 0 Michael Singsen 5 225959 Michael, thanks for reporting in. That's a shame about the CdP's. It's worth repeating again that buying this kind of merchandise is indeed a gamble. Here's an article about the fate of some of these wines from Bloomberg.com published last week. Link: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000088&sid=adroeWlRRfrs&refer=culture Tue May 02 03:32:00 -0700 2006 225701 0 Melanie Wong 5 226014 Unfortunately, '02 was a horrendous vintage in Chateauneuf and the Southern Rhone in general. Even in good condition, that wine probably had three strikes against it. Tue May 02 14:29:22 -0700 2006 225701 0 Larry Stein